Raid mastery won't be required to get spirit shards anymore! - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Raid mastery won't be required to get spirit shards anymore!

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  • FrizzFreston.5290FrizzFreston.5290 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 24, 2017

    @TexZero.7910 said:

    @FrizzFreston.5290 said:

    @FrizzFreston.5290 said:

    @TexZero.7910 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @TexZero.7910 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    It's not like it will affect the actual raiders in any way so I'm not sure why it makes you sad.

    I wont claim it makes me sad, but it does make me question masteries as a baseline concept. If they are the true horizontal endgame that we're supposed to be shipping then having them return to the old congrats you're maxed system of spirit shards makes sense. Now they kinda just say well, we don't care if you've actually mastered anything or experienced the game have a cookie on us.

    To me this is just a silly fix for a trivial issue, that's what gets me. Instead of just increasing the spirit shards from doing your daily from 3 to 5 or whatever arbitrary number they want.

    You get that the actual amount of shards never has been the issue, right? People already get more shards than they can spend from champ bags, from random loot, from various reward tracks, etc. Lack of shards is, at worst, a temporary issue for a tiny fraction of the community.

    It's always been about the principle of locking a reward, no matter how trivial, behind something that is described, by ANet, as challenging content, intended for a small portion of players.

    The fact that it was locked was an accident of ANet delivering a quick & dirty fix to player complaints that excess XP no longer had any value. ANet literally gave us the smallest possible reward for that: spirit shards.

    So in the end, this works out closer to the idea of masteries as true horizontal progression, by separating out a track that only applies to a limited subset of players.

    Clearly the spirit shard acquisition is the root cause of the issue. People are upset that those who did max were getting something they weren't.
    Now they too can have a spirit shard for what again ? They didn't complete all the masteries instead they waited for a "fix". The core problem is they think they should be rewarded for getting 90% instead of 100%. If that's the case i'd like the GWAMM title for doing the same.

    Instead of just increasing the rate of Spirit Shard gain they went the lazy fix route again.

    The spirit shard gain was a fix for maxing out your masteries and experience not being useful at all anymore. It was never intended to be a "reward for maxing out your masteries" but rather a fix for experience points going into nothingness after you were done progressing through the mastery system.

    Ofcourse, over time people are free to twist that reality into their own idea of what it is intended to be.

    @TexZero.7910 said:

    @FrizzFreston.5290 said:
    The spirit shard gain was a fix for maxing out your masteries and experience not being useful at all anymore. It was never intended to be a "reward for maxing out your masteries" but rather a fix for experience points going into nothingness after you were done progressing through the mastery system.

    Ofcourse, over time people are free to twist that reality into their own idea of what it should be.

    Which was literally a reversion to the previous system when we all capped out at 80 and were given spirit shards per extra level gained.
    It's quite literally a reward for being a complete character, no different than how masteries function.

    When the patch hits on Tuesday and that is "FIXED", it will be quite easily the most lazy way to appease a group of people who haven't truly maxed out their characters.

    Like I said, you're free to put your own twist on that. To me its a functionality to not make experience gain be completely useless. To you its something only people who mastered ALL the masteries in that region deserve... Which makes no sense because it doesnt apply to PoF or core regions anyway.

    Raids dont even belong to just the HoT region.

    All in all, I think its illogical to see this as some one raid completion reward.

    I dont see it as one raid completion reward. I see it just as i see the old system. Stop me if this sounds familiar

    Did you get spirit shards at 50 ? 70 ? 75?
    No, you got them at 80 because that's when exp started recycling.

    Should get spirit shards at anything other than the current 253 ? No, because your exp isn't being wasted, you've just opted not to make use of it.
    That's the difference you've opted out of a system and want to reap the rewards of the prior completion system to do so. This is the problem.

    Ignoring the horrible comparison there, ArenaNet is just redefining what a complete character means with this change.

    Completing just one raid (most likely the easiest) isnt making your or anyones character more complete. Unless arbitrarily ruled so. A rule that will soon be changed.

    The way people are saying that unlocking the raid mastery is easy already just shows how insignificant it really is.

    Plus what the system really was doing was pushing people away (well having less incentive to play rather) from HoT and instead saying people should just play Core Tyria or PoF for their spirit shards. It was never a reward for that one raid completion and instead just an awkward system anomaly.

  • @TexZero.7910 said:
    Raids dont halt anyone's progress. The only one who can do that is the player themselves.

    The point is that they were intended to be exclusive content, not meant to appeal to the majority of players. So they are designed in a way that leaves out lots of players; that's usually not a wise design choice, when it comes to something like this.


    I'm not sure why this change is controversial. Surely it's unimportant to most of us in the long run whether shards are available via HoT/XP or not; there are all sorts of PvE-only sources either way.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • TexZero.7910TexZero.7910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @FrizzFreston.5290 said:

    @TexZero.7910 said:

    @FrizzFreston.5290 said:

    @FrizzFreston.5290 said:

    @TexZero.7910 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @TexZero.7910 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    It's not like it will affect the actual raiders in any way so I'm not sure why it makes you sad.

    I wont claim it makes me sad, but it does make me question masteries as a baseline concept. If they are the true horizontal endgame that we're supposed to be shipping then having them return to the old congrats you're maxed system of spirit shards makes sense. Now they kinda just say well, we don't care if you've actually mastered anything or experienced the game have a cookie on us.

    To me this is just a silly fix for a trivial issue, that's what gets me. Instead of just increasing the spirit shards from doing your daily from 3 to 5 or whatever arbitrary number they want.

    You get that the actual amount of shards never has been the issue, right? People already get more shards than they can spend from champ bags, from random loot, from various reward tracks, etc. Lack of shards is, at worst, a temporary issue for a tiny fraction of the community.

    It's always been about the principle of locking a reward, no matter how trivial, behind something that is described, by ANet, as challenging content, intended for a small portion of players.

    The fact that it was locked was an accident of ANet delivering a quick & dirty fix to player complaints that excess XP no longer had any value. ANet literally gave us the smallest possible reward for that: spirit shards.

    So in the end, this works out closer to the idea of masteries as true horizontal progression, by separating out a track that only applies to a limited subset of players.

    Clearly the spirit shard acquisition is the root cause of the issue. People are upset that those who did max were getting something they weren't.
    Now they too can have a spirit shard for what again ? They didn't complete all the masteries instead they waited for a "fix". The core problem is they think they should be rewarded for getting 90% instead of 100%. If that's the case i'd like the GWAMM title for doing the same.

    Instead of just increasing the rate of Spirit Shard gain they went the lazy fix route again.

    The spirit shard gain was a fix for maxing out your masteries and experience not being useful at all anymore. It was never intended to be a "reward for maxing out your masteries" but rather a fix for experience points going into nothingness after you were done progressing through the mastery system.

    Ofcourse, over time people are free to twist that reality into their own idea of what it is intended to be.

    @TexZero.7910 said:

    @FrizzFreston.5290 said:
    The spirit shard gain was a fix for maxing out your masteries and experience not being useful at all anymore. It was never intended to be a "reward for maxing out your masteries" but rather a fix for experience points going into nothingness after you were done progressing through the mastery system.

    Ofcourse, over time people are free to twist that reality into their own idea of what it should be.

    Which was literally a reversion to the previous system when we all capped out at 80 and were given spirit shards per extra level gained.
    It's quite literally a reward for being a complete character, no different than how masteries function.

    When the patch hits on Tuesday and that is "FIXED", it will be quite easily the most lazy way to appease a group of people who haven't truly maxed out their characters.

    Like I said, you're free to put your own twist on that. To me its a functionality to not make experience gain be completely useless. To you its something only people who mastered ALL the masteries in that region deserve... Which makes no sense because it doesnt apply to PoF or core regions anyway.

    Raids dont even belong to just the HoT region.

    All in all, I think its illogical to see this as some one raid completion reward.

    I dont see it as one raid completion reward. I see it just as i see the old system. Stop me if this sounds familiar

    Did you get spirit shards at 50 ? 70 ? 75?
    No, you got them at 80 because that's when exp started recycling.

    Should get spirit shards at anything other than the current 253 ? No, because your exp isn't being wasted, you've just opted not to make use of it.
    That's the difference you've opted out of a system and want to reap the rewards of the prior completion system to do so. This is the problem.

    Ignoring the horrible comparison there, ArenaNet is just redefining what a complete character means with this change.

    Completing just one raid (most likely the easiest) isnt making your or anyones character more complete. Unless arbitrarily ruled so. A rule that will soon be changed.

    The way people are saying that unlocking the raid mastery is easy already just shows how insignificant it really is.

    Plus what the system really was doing was pushing people away (well having less incentive to play rather) from HoT and instead saying people should just play Core Tyria or PoF for their spirit shards. It was never a reward for that one raid completion and instead just an awkward system anomaly.

    It was far from an anomaly, it was a design choice added after the fact because just like when we hit 80 and started getting nothing people complained. People wanted their exp to mean something. Same thing happened when masteries were introduced and maxed out masteries meant little more than a number.

    Anet chose to go the approach that maxing out should mean something twice, even if it was something as little as a dang spirit shard.

    So Anet needs to stop being flippant in this regard and reward people for maxing out. It's that simple.
    If people still have an issue with that it's on them for creating that system in the first place instead of saying, "Hey Anet, Lets adjust spirit shard acquisition methods because the generation rate is subpar".

  • FrizzFreston.5290FrizzFreston.5290 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TexZero.7910 said:

    @FrizzFreston.5290 said:

    @TexZero.7910 said:

    @FrizzFreston.5290 said:

    @FrizzFreston.5290 said:

    @TexZero.7910 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @TexZero.7910 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    It's not like it will affect the actual raiders in any way so I'm not sure why it makes you sad.

    I wont claim it makes me sad, but it does make me question masteries as a baseline concept. If they are the true horizontal endgame that we're supposed to be shipping then having them return to the old congrats you're maxed system of spirit shards makes sense. Now they kinda just say well, we don't care if you've actually mastered anything or experienced the game have a cookie on us.

    To me this is just a silly fix for a trivial issue, that's what gets me. Instead of just increasing the spirit shards from doing your daily from 3 to 5 or whatever arbitrary number they want.

    You get that the actual amount of shards never has been the issue, right? People already get more shards than they can spend from champ bags, from random loot, from various reward tracks, etc. Lack of shards is, at worst, a temporary issue for a tiny fraction of the community.

    It's always been about the principle of locking a reward, no matter how trivial, behind something that is described, by ANet, as challenging content, intended for a small portion of players.

    The fact that it was locked was an accident of ANet delivering a quick & dirty fix to player complaints that excess XP no longer had any value. ANet literally gave us the smallest possible reward for that: spirit shards.

    So in the end, this works out closer to the idea of masteries as true horizontal progression, by separating out a track that only applies to a limited subset of players.

    Clearly the spirit shard acquisition is the root cause of the issue. People are upset that those who did max were getting something they weren't.
    Now they too can have a spirit shard for what again ? They didn't complete all the masteries instead they waited for a "fix". The core problem is they think they should be rewarded for getting 90% instead of 100%. If that's the case i'd like the GWAMM title for doing the same.

    Instead of just increasing the rate of Spirit Shard gain they went the lazy fix route again.

    The spirit shard gain was a fix for maxing out your masteries and experience not being useful at all anymore. It was never intended to be a "reward for maxing out your masteries" but rather a fix for experience points going into nothingness after you were done progressing through the mastery system.

    Ofcourse, over time people are free to twist that reality into their own idea of what it is intended to be.

    @TexZero.7910 said:

    @FrizzFreston.5290 said:
    The spirit shard gain was a fix for maxing out your masteries and experience not being useful at all anymore. It was never intended to be a "reward for maxing out your masteries" but rather a fix for experience points going into nothingness after you were done progressing through the mastery system.

    Ofcourse, over time people are free to twist that reality into their own idea of what it should be.

    Which was literally a reversion to the previous system when we all capped out at 80 and were given spirit shards per extra level gained.
    It's quite literally a reward for being a complete character, no different than how masteries function.

    When the patch hits on Tuesday and that is "FIXED", it will be quite easily the most lazy way to appease a group of people who haven't truly maxed out their characters.

    Like I said, you're free to put your own twist on that. To me its a functionality to not make experience gain be completely useless. To you its something only people who mastered ALL the masteries in that region deserve... Which makes no sense because it doesnt apply to PoF or core regions anyway.

    Raids dont even belong to just the HoT region.

    All in all, I think its illogical to see this as some one raid completion reward.

    I dont see it as one raid completion reward. I see it just as i see the old system. Stop me if this sounds familiar

    Did you get spirit shards at 50 ? 70 ? 75?
    No, you got them at 80 because that's when exp started recycling.

    Should get spirit shards at anything other than the current 253 ? No, because your exp isn't being wasted, you've just opted not to make use of it.
    That's the difference you've opted out of a system and want to reap the rewards of the prior completion system to do so. This is the problem.

    Ignoring the horrible comparison there, ArenaNet is just redefining what a complete character means with this change.

    Completing just one raid (most likely the easiest) isnt making your or anyones character more complete. Unless arbitrarily ruled so. A rule that will soon be changed.

    The way people are saying that unlocking the raid mastery is easy already just shows how insignificant it really is.

    Plus what the system really was doing was pushing people away (well having less incentive to play rather) from HoT and instead saying people should just play Core Tyria or PoF for their spirit shards. It was never a reward for that one raid completion and instead just an awkward system anomaly.

    It was far from an anomaly, it was a design choice added after the fact because just like when we hit 80 and started getting nothing people complained. People wanted their exp to mean something. Same thing happened when masteries were introduced and maxed out masteries meant little more than a number.

    Anet chose to go the approach that maxing out should mean something twice, even if it was something as little as a dang spirit shard.

    So Anet needs to stop being flippant in this regard and reward people for maxing out. It's that simple.
    If people still have an issue with that it's on them for creating that system in the first place instead of saying, "Hey Anet, Lets adjust spirit shard acquisition methods because the generation rate is subpar".

    Well I suppose I don't mind if they stopped "being flippant" at this point. :p

  • TexZero.7910TexZero.7910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @FrizzFreston.5290 said:
    Well I suppose I don't mind if they stopped "being flippant" at this point. :pensive::

    That doesn't address the issue though. Which is the entire problem.

    Either fix the real source of the headache (Spirit Shard acquisition) or don't. Either way, being consistent from in design is important and what they're messaging is far from consistent.

  • @Torolan.5816 said:
    non-raid legendary armor

    Wait WHAT?

  • TheWolf.1602TheWolf.1602 Member ✭✭✭

    Does this mean people who don't raid can get spirit shards in HOT areas?

  • Clarification for what the dev meant by saying "it sucks for those who already have it unlocked":
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/7a36hy/fractal_mastery_track_doesnt_require_you_to_do/dp73rhi/

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TheWolf.1602 said:
    Does this mean people who don't raid can get spirit shards in HOT areas?

    Yes

  • @Sister Saxifrage.7361 said:

    @Torolan.5816 said:
    non-raid legendary armor

    Wait WHAT?

    You can get stat-selectable armor via WvW or PvP. It doesn't include the Raid skin, just the ability to change stats (and rune swap) on demand.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TexZero.7910 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @TexZero.7910 said:

    @FrizzFreston.5290 said:

    @FrizzFreston.5290 said:

    @TexZero.7910 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @TexZero.7910 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    It's not like it will affect the actual raiders in any way so I'm not sure why it makes you sad.

    I wont claim it makes me sad, but it does make me question masteries as a baseline concept. If they are the true horizontal endgame that we're supposed to be shipping then having them return to the old congrats you're maxed system of spirit shards makes sense. Now they kinda just say well, we don't care if you've actually mastered anything or experienced the game have a cookie on us.

    To me this is just a silly fix for a trivial issue, that's what gets me. Instead of just increasing the spirit shards from doing your daily from 3 to 5 or whatever arbitrary number they want.

    You get that the actual amount of shards never has been the issue, right? People already get more shards than they can spend from champ bags, from random loot, from various reward tracks, etc. Lack of shards is, at worst, a temporary issue for a tiny fraction of the community.

    It's always been about the principle of locking a reward, no matter how trivial, behind something that is described, by ANet, as challenging content, intended for a small portion of players.

    The fact that it was locked was an accident of ANet delivering a quick & dirty fix to player complaints that excess XP no longer had any value. ANet literally gave us the smallest possible reward for that: spirit shards.

    So in the end, this works out closer to the idea of masteries as true horizontal progression, by separating out a track that only applies to a limited subset of players.

    Clearly the spirit shard acquisition is the root cause of the issue. People are upset that those who did max were getting something they weren't.
    Now they too can have a spirit shard for what again ? They didn't complete all the masteries instead they waited for a "fix". The core problem is they think they should be rewarded for getting 90% instead of 100%. If that's the case i'd like the GWAMM title for doing the same.

    Instead of just increasing the rate of Spirit Shard gain they went the lazy fix route again.

    The spirit shard gain was a fix for maxing out your masteries and experience not being useful at all anymore. It was never intended to be a "reward for maxing out your masteries" but rather a fix for experience points going into nothingness after you were done progressing through the mastery system.

    Ofcourse, over time people are free to twist that reality into their own idea of what it is intended to be.

    @TexZero.7910 said:

    @FrizzFreston.5290 said:
    The spirit shard gain was a fix for maxing out your masteries and experience not being useful at all anymore. It was never intended to be a "reward for maxing out your masteries" but rather a fix for experience points going into nothingness after you were done progressing through the mastery system.

    Ofcourse, over time people are free to twist that reality into their own idea of what it should be.

    Which was literally a reversion to the previous system when we all capped out at 80 and were given spirit shards per extra level gained.
    It's quite literally a reward for being a complete character, no different than how masteries function.

    When the patch hits on Tuesday and that is "FIXED", it will be quite easily the most lazy way to appease a group of people who haven't truly maxed out their characters.

    Like I said, you're free to put your own twist on that. To me its a functionality to not make experience gain be completely useless. To you its something only people who mastered ALL the masteries in that region deserve... Which makes no sense because it doesnt apply to PoF or core regions anyway.

    Raids dont even belong to just the HoT region.

    All in all, I think its illogical to see this as some one raid completion reward.

    I dont see it as one raid completion reward. I see it just as i see the old system. Stop me if this sounds familiar

    Did you get spirit shards at 50 ? 70 ? 75?
    No, you got them at 80 because that's when exp started recycling.

    Should get spirit shards at anything other than the current 253 ? No, because your exp isn't being wasted, you've just opted not to make use of it.
    That's the difference you've opted out of a system and want to reap the rewards of the prior completion system to do so. This is the problem.

    Except raid are considered by anet as exclusive content and by design are no meant for everyone. That means, raids should not halt anyone's progression

    Raids dont halt anyone's progress. The only one who can do that is the player themselves.

    Raids do block progress of maxing out mastery system and unlocking spirit shard exp sink. Raids are not part of progression, this is seperate content. Thank god Anet listened and changed it. Whatever you think about this is irrelevant at this point. Enjoy your game :)

  • Phil.7369Phil.7369 Member ✭✭✭

    yes Anet does listen and I'm glad they do

  • TexZero.7910TexZero.7910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    Raids do block progress of maxing out mastery system and unlocking spirit shard exp sink. Raids are not part of progression, this is seperate content. Thank god Anet listened and changed it. Whatever you think about this is irrelevant at this point. Enjoy your game :)

    Raids don't halt anyone. Sorry if you willingly choose to opt out that's on you not the content.
    Masteries, including raid masteries are part of player progression whether you like to admit it or not. By denying that raid masteries aren't part of horizontal player progression you deny the entire reason for masteries to even exist.

    Just because you dont think so doesn't make it irrelevant at any point and its worth discussing.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 26, 2017

    @TexZero.7910 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    Raids do block progress of maxing out mastery system and unlocking spirit shard exp sink. Raids are not part of progression, this is seperate content. Thank god Anet listened and changed it. Whatever you think about this is irrelevant at this point. Enjoy your game :)

    Raids don't halt anyone. Sorry if you willingly choose to opt out that's on you not the content.
    Masteries, including raid masteries are part of player progression whether you like to admit it or not. By denying that raid masteries aren't part of horizontal player progression you deny the entire reason for masteries to even exist.

    Just because you dont think so doesn't make it irrelevant at any point and its worth discussing.

    Raid is not part of progression, it's end game. That means when raid blocks mastery progression, it's design mistake. Luckily Anet found a way to fix it and your flawed logic of this case has no effect on reality anymore :)

  • TexZero.7910TexZero.7910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @TexZero.7910 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    Raids do block progress of maxing out mastery system and unlocking spirit shard exp sink. Raids are not part of progression, this is seperate content. Thank god Anet listened and changed it. Whatever you think about this is irrelevant at this point. Enjoy your game :)

    Raids don't halt anyone. Sorry if you willingly choose to opt out that's on you not the content.
    Masteries, including raid masteries are part of player progression whether you like to admit it or not. By denying that raid masteries aren't part of horizontal player progression you deny the entire reason for masteries to even exist.

    Just because you dont think so doesn't make it irrelevant at any point and its worth discussing.

    Raid is not part of progression, it's end game. That means when raid blocks mastery progression, it's design mistake. Luckily Anet found a way to fix it and your flawed logic of this case has no effect on reality anymore :)

    Did i say once that raiding was ?
    No.

    I said masteries are, it just so happens that there are raid masteries and intentionally opting out of that is a design problem. Masteries of all kinds are horizontal progression so you should not have the ability to opt out of them in favor of gains.

    What should happen is exactly the same thing that happened pre-HoT. Are you maxed, if yes = get shards else get exp. The current system already supports this and there's 0 reason to change it just because a select few refuse to get maxed out on masteries.

    It would be nice of you to stop throwing your toxicity around in attempts to silence people. I won't be silenced :)

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TexZero.7910 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @TexZero.7910 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    Raids do block progress of maxing out mastery system and unlocking spirit shard exp sink. Raids are not part of progression, this is seperate content. Thank god Anet listened and changed it. Whatever you think about this is irrelevant at this point. Enjoy your game :)

    Raids don't halt anyone. Sorry if you willingly choose to opt out that's on you not the content.
    Masteries, including raid masteries are part of player progression whether you like to admit it or not. By denying that raid masteries aren't part of horizontal player progression you deny the entire reason for masteries to even exist.

    Just because you dont think so doesn't make it irrelevant at any point and its worth discussing.

    Raid is not part of progression, it's end game. That means when raid blocks mastery progression, it's design mistake. Luckily Anet found a way to fix it and your flawed logic of this case has no effect on reality anymore :)

    Did i say once that raiding was ?
    No.

    I said masteries are, it just so happens that there are raid masteries and intentionally opting out of that is a design problem. Masteries of all kinds are horizontal progression so you should not have the ability to opt out of them in favor of gains.

    What should happen is exactly the same thing that happened pre-HoT. Are you maxed, if yes = get shards else get exp. The current system already supports this and there's 0 reason to change it just because a select few refuse to get maxed out on masteries.

    It would be nice of you to stop throwing your toxicity around in attempts to silence people. I won't be silenced :)

    Whatever your justification is it is irrelevant. ArenaNet doesn't agree with you and changed the system to respect majority of their customers, which is the only correct answer a dev could make :)

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