[Poll] Replace 1 Alpine with New Map and/or EoTM Map

Now that we have been running for a bit and had a new expansion but no new WvW map was curious thoughts on the forum goers about the current maps in play. To me gliding has added a good layer into game play on the various WvW maps and one of the issues that some people had with the EoTM map design was falling. These seem to compliment each other enough that I think that the EoTM map would be a good replacement for one of the Alpine maps giving players 4 unique maps to play on. Dropping a poll to see what the forum goers thoughts are. ANet has already made a move to have the alpines feel more like 3 sided maps at reset, this just furthers that thought. Appreciate your time.

The option to replace DBL is not there or I would have selected that one.

what? desert borderlands are bad designed ( moderators will delete this )there is no sinergy like in alpine borderlands :from briar can treb bay , from refuge camp can treb inner and outer bay , from camp you can treb hills, from northen towers you can treb garrison.from ruins you can treb both towers briar and lake, both keeps, hills and bayDesert borderland : random towers and keeps placed arround the map

@Loosmaster.8263 said:The option to replace DBL is not there or I would have selected that one.

I'm with this guy. I'd even be for replacing DBL with EOTM. Too boring.

@Rayya.2591 said:what? desert borderlands are bad designed ( moderators will delete this )there is no sinergy like in alpine borderlands :from briar can treb bay , from refuge camp can treb inner and outer bay , from camp you can treb hills, from northen towers you can treb garrison.from ruins you can treb both towers briar and lake, both keeps, hills and bayDesert borderland : random towers and keeps placed arround the map

i do prefer desert borderlands, they are a snipers haven.the towers and keeps are also easier to solo as the lords dont have annoying adds and healing below 50%.yes you cant treb safely from objective to objective but your possibilities to plant siege in openworld are better.those towers and keeps are far from randomly placed around the map, rather the map is shaped for the objectives around them.

Not sure if replacing alpine to eotm map is a troll. To me it sounds like one.

I tried to cover other angels, but I won't deny that the purpose of the poll was more focusing on getting 4 unique maps. Having different maps means different tactics are needed which keeps things fresh. To me, in an ideal world we would have 12 maps by now that are rotated in weekly. Will keep this feedback in mind for any future polls. Thank you for the feedback.

Having 4 maps would be nice if they were balanced... Yet just compare Alpine with Desert borderlands...I'd rather it to remain at it is while they spend resources on other stuff.

I vote 1 new map conditionally,Whoever designed Alpine BL takes lead.And no desert map art this time. Maybe tropical beaches at most for the sandy side of things.

@TheGrimm.5624 said:ANet has already made a move to have the alpines feel more like 3 sided maps at reset, this just furthers that thought.

Wait what does that mean? :/

Anyway, the TL;DR of my IMO of WvW map design:

1) All should share a universal 3-way design with EB as design template.2) This means Alpine and Desert need to be remade into 3-way themed maps of the EB design template.3) EoTM would be perfectly fine with a complete terrain revamp (ie no more chasms everywhere) and an SM style central objective.== This allows much more flexible WvW matchups that can change how many maps are used depending on the current activity. This is the true WvW "megaserver" tech.

But of course the only real viable option is leave it as it is for kitten sake. We warned that DBL had to go period for the safety of WvW. It was like sirens and rotating lights and warnings everywhere, going by previous votes Anet would totally mess up the DBL vote and potentially leave WvW in ruin. And of course that's exactly what happened. It's still a kittening miracle we survived that ordeal. We could have had EB + 3 DBLs right now.

It's a waste of budget that ANET doesn't appear to have.

Designing for 3 ways is already painful given that there isn't much variety to begin with, since equilateral triangular maps are the only option for balance. If you wanted to really have balance with the "Home Borderland" style, you would have to copy that 3 times (which is what they did in the past). It is apparent by now that ANET has abandoned balance in favor of having a little variety. This doesn't mean the current "Home Borderland" maps are great maps (Alpine and Desert) considering the waste of space in the corners and all the failed attempts to make their centers meaningful and active. Blood lust is just the latest iteration of those attempts.

Even if we go into pretend land and say ANET is going to make 1 additional map. It will probably still have the same issues of the "Home Borderland" style, and if they did another equilateral triangle it will more than likely be another repeat of the current EBG/EOTM just as maybe a different size. Woo...I'd like to think they would add a unique map mechanic, but we have already seen those tend to disappear.

Wait didn't I do some long rambly rants about these map designs? Totally. But dafuq do I know? All I can say, changing the maps now isn't plausible nor would it produce any meaningful results besides pushing more people into EBG, even with the addition of Eotm (that doesn't follow the same WvW systems like upgrades...).

Would prefer more time spent elsewhere. Like pve, since that makes them money I guess.

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:It's a waste of budget that ANET doesn't appear to have.

Designing for 3 ways is already painful given that there isn't much variety to begin with, since equilateral triangular maps are the only option for balance. If you wanted to really have balance with the "Home Borderland" style, you would have to copy that 3 times (which is what they did in the past). It is apparent by now that ANET has abandoned balance in favor of having a little variety. This doesn't mean the current "Home Borderland" maps are great maps (Alpine and Desert) considering the waste of space in the corners and all the failed attempts to make their centers meaningful and active. Blood lust is just the latest iteration of those attempts.

Even if we go into pretend land and say ANET is going to make 1 additional map. It will probably still have the same issues of the "Home Borderland" style, and if they did another equilateral triangle it will more than likely be another repeat of the current EBG/EOTM just as maybe a different size. Woo...I'd like to think they would add a unique map mechanic, but we have already seen those tend to disappear.

Wait didn't I do some long rambly rants about these map designs? Totally. But kitten do I know? All I can say, changing the maps now isn't plausible nor would it produce any meaningful results besides pushing more people into EBG, even with the addition of Eotm (that doesn't follow the same WvW systems like upgrades...).

Would prefer more time spent elsewhere. Like pve, since that makes them money I guess.

ABL ruins is probably one of the best additions to WvW.

@Justine.6351 said:

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:It's a waste of budget that ANET doesn't appear to have.

Designing for 3 ways is already painful given that there isn't much variety to begin with, since equilateral triangular maps are the only option for balance. If you wanted to really have balance with the "Home Borderland" style, you would have to copy that 3 times (which is what they did in the past). It is apparent by now that ANET has abandoned balance in favor of having a little variety. This doesn't mean the current "Home Borderland" maps are great maps (Alpine and Desert) considering the waste of space in the corners and all the failed attempts to make their centers meaningful and active. Blood lust is just the latest iteration of those attempts.

Even if we go into pretend land and say ANET is going to make 1 additional map. It will probably still have the same issues of the "Home Borderland" style, and if they did another equilateral triangle it will more than likely be another repeat of the current EBG/EOTM just as maybe a different size. Woo...I'd like to think they would add a unique map mechanic, but we have already seen those tend to disappear.

Wait didn't I do some long rambly rants about these map designs?

Totally.

But kitten do I know? All I can say, changing the maps now isn't plausible nor would it produce any meaningful results besides pushing more people into EBG, even with the addition of Eotm (that doesn't follow the same WvW systems like upgrades...).

Would prefer more time spent elsewhere. Like pve, since that makes them money I guess.

You can make the claim, but then explain why. No wait, I'll cover you.

The only two good things to come out of ABL ruins are probably coliseum (an area for blood lust AND to place siege/de-siege from). And the bottom right ruin tower for similar reasons.

But blood lust on it's own is mediocre when it comes to activity, especially on DBL...and the other 3 fifths of ABLs' ruins.

rather have the nuclear option on WvW... player like alpine cause its easy and fast to ktrain, that would make 1 server with the ktrain map :\

But since ANet said creating maps were to resources consuming, and new map wont solve nothing... WVW has some core issues.

As long as the devs don't try to come up with some new silly design like in desert borderlands then I'm fine with the idea. As long as the map is small-ish, relatively open and filled with enough objectives to capture/contest and allow strategical gameplay, it should be fun. OTOH if it's just long, boring walks with nothing to do only to be ganked in 30s because the map is huge but just a bunch of claustrophobic corridors - like DBL - then no thank you.

I will admit I am more favoring of 3 sided maps, but that's just me. Will save map design discussions to another thread since that is a topic all on its own.

EOTM map was added as a holding area - though I think it was more of a testing map for trying ideas out for future wvw maps. Then they added the desert borderland. EOTM was ok, DBL is a horrid disaster. Do we really think that they'd reverse that trend? I don't. Until they can do something to get populations fairly balanced, at least in the tiers, I don't want them spending their limited resources working on another map.

@Rennie.6750 said:As long as the devs don't try to come up with some new silly design like in desert borderlands then I'm fine with the idea. As long as the map is small-ish, relatively open and filled with enough objectives to capture/contest and allow strategical gameplay, it should be fun. OTOH if it's just long, boring walks with nothing to do only to be ganked in 30s because the map is huge but just a bunch of claustrophobic corridors - like DBL - then no thank you.

sounds like a super boring map to me.. you want stratecig gameplay but dont want to use the terrain to your advantage ?

@TheGrimm.5624 said:Replace 1 Alpine with New Map and/or EoTM Map

The fact that you seriously suggest using the garbage EotM map over the alpine map makes me suspect this is just a troll poll.

@coglin.1496 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:Replace 1 Alpine with New Map and/or EoTM Map

Idk about troll, but the last three options could be squished into "no change" tbh.

On the basis that the poll was badly designed as it lacked the real options players want, I voted 'don't care'.

I'd like to see a new map, but failing that get rid of Deserted BL. EOTM has no place in wvw.

What's I'd really like is a move away from the 3 servers to a 5 server battles with a map 5 sided with 5 almost central objectives and then a central one. the more territory you hold the better rewards you get, but you also suffer a penalty to your stats. Then just to make it interesting, there are three copies of the maps. No more EB. Territory counts in total across the maps, so strategy is key.

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:It's a waste of budget that ANET doesn't appear to have.

Designing for 3 ways is already painful given that there isn't much variety to begin with, since equilateral triangular maps are the only option for balance. If you wanted to really have balance with the "Home Borderland" style, you would have to copy that 3 times (which is what they did in the past). It is apparent by now that ANET has abandoned balance in favor of having a little variety. This doesn't mean the current "Home Borderland" maps are great maps (Alpine and Desert) considering the waste of space in the corners and all the failed attempts to make their centers meaningful and active. Blood lust is just the latest iteration of those attempts.

Even if we go into pretend land and say ANET is going to make 1 additional map. It will probably still have the same issues of the "Home Borderland" style, and if they did another equilateral triangle it will more than likely be another repeat of the current EBG/EOTM just as maybe a different size. Woo...I'd like to think they would add a unique map mechanic, but we have already seen those tend to disappear.

Wait didn't I do some long rambly rants about these map designs?

Totally.

But kitten do I know? All I can say, changing the maps now isn't plausible nor would it produce any meaningful results besides pushing more people into EBG, even with the addition of Eotm (that doesn't follow the same WvW systems like upgrades...).

Would prefer more time spent elsewhere. Like pve, since that makes them money I guess.

Atleast its better than underwater combat with angry quaggans and kraits

so yea, voted for the eotm map. my points:-EOTM represents the essence of GW2, which is a mystical land with natural elements. You can see this by the dominating server called "Overgrowth"-Many potential areas for engagements, i.e. the bridges which are chokepoints, the slight elevations giving defenders an edge-sense of deja vu, face it, most players here originate from EOTM where they were nurtured as baby warriors before going to wvw. Going back to the roots make players appreciate GW2 even more

Still working on more points, brb.

@Roxanne.6140 said:-Many potential areas for engagements, i.e. the bridges which are chokepoints, the slight elevations giving defenders an edge

Are we still under the delusion that forcing a lot of choke points is a good thing?

Just look at DBL, especially just after the release of HoT

@ThunderPanda.1872 said:

@Roxanne.6140 said:-Many potential areas for engagements, i.e. the bridges which are chokepoints, the slight elevations giving defenders an edge

see, chokes didn't fail DBL. DBL failed in many ways and chokes were one of its lesser evil.s