24k dps of power rev is unacceptable

Hi. Currently power renegade is about 23.5k dps (realistic qT setup), herald is at ~24.5.Even the crippled power reaper is at 26.4k.In current standards, successful dps builds start from 31k-32k

I just think this is beyond absurd that revenant's only viable dps build is condi.And I understand the design is to make condi more worth it in extended periods but that doesn't mean power builds should be useless in extended periods + there are already power classes that are better in power damage than their condi counterparts, or at least close. It's unacceptable that condi rev build makes ~13 000 more DPS.

Anet, fix your balance.

Hail Power Herald ! I still believe !

Look on the bright side. You actually have a viable dps build, that adds wanted support.

But I don't want to play condi rev, lol. There is no bright side to this :(

I usually hit 26k to 27k whenever I test herald, but that aside yeah the power creep is way too high in this next expansion. Whatever support the power build has is nill if the condi build does 50% more damage. The condi builds as a whole need to be toned down, the power builds need to be brought up. I was fine with 27k when the condi build did 32k.

All Condi burst should be brought down, but tell me guys if condi does not do more damage in long run(most raid bosses) what is even point running it? Power should have it's place in shorter fights(fractals, trio, escort ect.) but condi bursts right now so high it's kinda impossible to justify going power on almost all classes. Also all good condi builds have pretty ok power scaling and 20% of damage coming from normal damage is making it harder for power to catch em up.

Condi pierces armor, and it ignores protection. Originally it was in the game as a form of "magic damage" that obeyed different rules than regular damage. Balancing around burst potential is a new direction the balance team has taken.

I'm not against a buff in PvE's power Rev, but the difference in survability is also huge in favor of power Rev.

hopefully this coming tuesday we will see another power revenant buff. just hope they dont nerf condi revenants to make up for it.perhaps speed up sword 2 and make sword 3 have more attacks but the evade duration the same

We need options! Oh, KC fight but I like playing Rev...I can go power for this fight no worries!Those sort of options is whats needed. Not that we have to change class altogether just change your build a bit for different boss is all. :/

I might be wrong, but from my understanding that with the latest buff power build was getting to lower 30K.

Though, currently condi build eclipse power build in every shape or form in PvE.

@otto.5684 said:I might be wrong, but from my understanding that with the latest buff power build was getting to lower 30K.

Though, currently condi build eclipse power build in every shape or form in PvE.

You can get to 30K with all buffs, but that is very unrealistic because that requires elder's force with full boon bar, on top of 100% glyph of empowerment up time.

Another huge problem with power rev damage is that on top of being extremely low overall, there is no burst capability. Ele's and dragonhunters in particular can do massive front-loaded bursts to force quick boss phasing however power rev dps is basically a flat line, that just goes up 20% once swift termination kicks in. Lack of burst means that even if it's sustained dps was buffed to reach ele/dragonhunter levels, it would require a target which can survive long enough for it catch up with their massive opening bursts, at that point it just falls behind all the condi builds. Fortunately it still brings facet of nature, protection, and great cc (though staff swap hurts dps pretty bad) if facet of nature was bumped up to 10 man and and dps went to around realistic 30k it would definitely be worth considering using.

That's still better than power warrior ;-;
All of the underperforming power classes (Ranger, Revenant, Necro, Warr) all need huge buffs in pve to be competitive :(

@TheSlothArmada.6709 said:That's still better than power warrior ;-;

All of the underperforming power classes (Ranger, Revenant, Necro, Warr) all need huge buffs in pve to be competitive :(

@TheSlothArmada.6709 said:That's still better than power warrior ;-;

All of the underperforming power classes (Ranger, Revenant, Necro, Warr) all need huge buffs in pve to be competitive :(

The thing is, power warrior would be great if condi warrior wasn't amazing. It still brings all the support of condi ps just with less dps so if condi warrior wasn't a thing, power warrior would automatically be meta. Power rev on the other hand is just bad. Its support is not nearly strong enough to justify the terrible dps, so if condi rev wasn't a thing, power rev would still not be meta, rev would just not be meta.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:

@TheSlothArmada.6709 said:That's still better than power warrior ;-;

All of the underperforming power classes (Ranger, Revenant, Necro, Warr) all need huge buffs in pve to be competitive :(

@TheSlothArmada.6709 said:That's still better than power warrior ;-;

All of the underperforming power classes (Ranger, Revenant, Necro, Warr) all need huge buffs in pve to be competitive :(

That's only pPS Warrior though.Power DPS would still be nonexistent for warrior, and I'm sure much more people would want to play as DPS than a buffer.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:

@otto.5684 said:I might be wrong, but from my understanding that with the latest buff power build was getting to lower 30K.

Though, currently condi build eclipse power build in every shape or form in PvE.

I though all dps bench marks are calculated assuming all buffs.

I do think that power Rev needs a buff, but playing the devils advocate, if power Rev does the same damage as DH, why would anyone play DH in a raid/fractal? Rev will be superior to it in support and survivability. As for the burst, I would argue that on a single target Rev is not lacking in burst (especially in under 50%), but in AOE scenarios Rev suffers greatly. This is probably the area it suffers the most. Power Rev damage gets diluted the more enemies you fight.

In my opinion a buff of sword AA of 3% or so, while making facet of nature bumped to 10 man should put power Rev where it should be dps wise.

As for staff, I am an advocate of buffing its AA and staff two to make it viable dps in PvE, but I have given up on that long time go..

Though it is unlikely that power Rev or Herald will get anything this up coming patch. It will mostly be Renegade, and unlikely to even fix Renegade.

I dont quite understand these arguments. If survivability is an obstacle in making power build useful, explain thief. explain mesmer. explain soulbeast. even warrior before the nerfs

ps. no, benchmarks arent done with all buffs.

Soulbeast power builds are horrendously bad. It's around 24k DPS or less on greatsword and mainhand sword builds on soulbeast are around 25-26k. To put it in perspective, soulbeast with Sic Em (40% damage for 15 seconds every 60 seconds) does almost the same damage as guardian greatsword autos and less damage on maul than whirling wrath. So you're doing slightly less damage than a dragonhunter does full-time only 15 seconds out of every 60 seconds. The rest of the time you're doing worse by 40%+

Anyways, what rev needs is to have the closed beta and first 2 months worth of nerfs thanks to pvp reverted for PvE.

Buff autoattack damage back by 25%, un-nerf Unrelenting Assault to its original damage and cooldown in PvE, and revert the nerf on Herald F2.

Another issue with herald is how royally your abilities are screwed by the presence of multiple opponents, since the damage is split instead of scaling up.

Initially, the fact that the damage split was the reason for unrelenting assault and sword 2 to be doing as much damage as they did, but that garbage PvP/WvW formats got the damage nerfed anyways and the drawbacks of the spells weren't addressed alongside the nerfs.

Shiro's Impossible Odds also needs to be buffed to a 15% damage buff while active in PvE. Shiro is a terrible legend in PvE when it should be the core legend of any power revenant just as mallyx is for condi and ventari for support.

@otto.5684 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:

@otto.5684 said:I might be wrong, but from my understanding that with the latest buff power build was getting to lower 30K.

Though, currently condi build eclipse power build in every shape or form in PvE.

From qT's website:All benchmarks are done with realistic buffs.Power class Buffs: 5 GOTL stacks, Spotter, Frost & Sun spirit, Banner of Strength + Discipline, Empower Allies, Alacrity. 5 Boons (Quickness, Fury, Might, Regen, Swiftness)

As for the burst, rev simply does not have burst any burst that is remotely comparable to what dragonhunter or ele can do.https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=yzWj86hgdXsThis is qT's benchmark for dragonhunter where if you watch his dps meter, it spikes to over 50k dps for the first ~5 seconds of the fight before slowly dropping down to ~33-34k. You simply can't get anywhere close to that kind of burst on rev (if you can prove me wrong I would love to see it) so rev will always be playing catch up. To try to explain the significance, If hypothetically rev sustained dps is buffed to be equal to dragonhunter, in fights which only last 5 seconds (most fractal/dungeon bosses) rev will still only do about 33k dps while dh does over 50k and wins by a landslide. Rev only catches up if the fight goes on for a minute or more.

The importance of burst can't be stressed enough because the only time power is viable (aside from power ele on a large hit box) is when you can burst hard enough to force phase changes/kills before condi builds can ramp up to the point where they are doing more damage. For instance you use a big burst to bring slothasor to his invulnerable/breakbar phase. While sloth is unable to be hit, dh burst is being recharged so once the break-bar is broken, dh can immediately burst again with another 50k dps burst, this brings sloth to his next invuln/breakbar phase allowing time for dh burst to recharge so they can burst hard again once broken, etc. If the timing is perfect, dh can be in a state where they always have a major burst available whenever the boss is vulnerable. When the same thing happens to rev, they burst a bit harder than condi builds for the first few seconds after each phase, but it is far behind what a dragonhunter is doing, and it doesn't take long for condi builds to surpass it.

@Zenith.7301 said:Soulbeast power builds are horrendously bad. It's around 24k DPS or less on greatsword and mainhand sword builds on soulbeast are around 25-26k.you are absolutely right, i thought it was more. that being said, point still stands. thief literally has perma evasion even on dps skills. survivability skills is not an obstacle or reason to nerf/not buff something. every class should have access to some sort of defense besides their dps. you dont want to build the active combat system and leave everyone with nothing to play with it (like necro, and we know where it's at right now, lol)