A "don't waypoint when dead" fee?

There was a thread on the reddit encouraging players who died to waypoint. This has been a constant struggle in the game, players in events fully dying, and then preferring to wait around for a rez after the event rather than running back. And sometimes that's fair, if the fight will be over within seconds, then there's no harm in them waiting around, but it the fight will take another minute or two, it can be a bit rude to just take a nap like that. Rezzing a defeated[edit] player during combat takes too long to be practical in most cases.

I think that a solid solution to this, rather than absolutely forcing people to waypoint, could be to fine them for not doing so.

Make it so that if a player is fully defeated, they have thirty seconds or so to get their act together. If the battle ends before that, then they're fine. But after the time limit, they get a prompt, pay some nominal fee or be automatically transported to the nearest WP (with standard WP fee automatically deducted). The fee could be as simple as double the WP cost, or punitive like ten times that cost or more. If you REALLY want to stay, you can, just pay the fee, which should be enough to discourage laziness. And just to be fair, if you're actively being rezzed when the time limit hits, you wouldn't be forcibly WPed until either they stop (or they fully rez you and it cancels the timer).

Not only would this work for the main case described above, but it would have the added benefit of helping with AFK botters, as they would automatically get WPed away from their camping area.

I prefer the option to let us kick around their corpse for laughs.

For events, they could just have the inactivity timer kick in after 30 seconds of staying dead, which would disable the rewards. Alternatively they could use the 60s logout warning, which would kick them out. The core problem however is the lack of a proper contribution meter. What's the point in preventing people from staying dead when other people are AFK on the side?

if they want to stay dead, let them stay dead, we have no obligation to rezz them.and your point on rezzing a downed player... it's better to get downed players up and contnue to fight, than have them spawn miles away at the WP and have them move back to the fight (takes way longer and reduces damage more significantly)

Dying is already a punishment with the moving to a way point to "solo" rezz and having to repair gear. giving people a fine is kicking someone who is already down.What they could do is apply the same rule for being dead to long as being away to long (if they haven't already done this). where you will lose any participation to an event when you leave the area of the event for to long (this was to avoid people nipping in at all the events and then leave)

if someone just wants to watch the fight and doesn't care about losing the reward, let them do so, again you don't have to rezz them

@CharterforGw.3149 said:if they want to stay dead, let them stay dead, we have no obligation to rezz them.

True, but it is a battlefield inconvenience, as they can be confused for recoverable downed players, and even if not, they are a visual and "f key" distraction. It's better to move them off the battlefield if they aren't contributing.

and your point on rezzing a downed player... it's better to get downed players up and contnue to fight, than have them spawn miles away at the WP and have them move back to the fight (takes way longer and reduces damage more significantly)

Downed, yes. Definitely rez downed. This is talking fully defeated characters. The time delay on rezzing a defeated character during combat is too long to make it worthwhile in most cases. It is a more effective use of time for that player to WP and run back than to tie up X amount of other players for the time it would take to rez him. Most of the time.

Dying is already a punishment with the moving to a way point to "solo" rezz and having to repair gear. giving people a fine is kicking someone who is already down.

It's only a fine if they insist on not WPing. It would not double dip if they do WP, or if they are rezzed within the time limit.

It's a terrible idea to tax players for playing the game in a way you don't like.

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:It's a terrible idea to tax players for playing the game in a way you don't like.

What does this have to do with that? This suggestion has nothing to do with people's gameplay styles, it only applies after they have already lost the game, and even then the tax is purely optional.

Nothing you've said is optional. You want to tax players who choose to wait for a revive rather than running back.

Some players may choose not to WP and run back because of any number of logistical reasons: they’re still exploring that particular map and haven’t uncovered a reasonably close WP at which to respawn and run back to join the fight, they’re unsure how much longer said fight will take and feel they’d be too late to contribute in time, a nearby WP could be contested requiring an even longer run though potentially hostile and difficult zones, etc.

I’m wholly against some sort of punishment simply because someone chooses not to get out of your way. Even if the player’s corpse is basically F-key litter, you can still dodge roll out of rezzing them to get back to the fight. I wouldn’t mind a forced WP mechanic where the system automatically chooses the nearest uncontested, discovered WP and sends them there and automatically takes the WP fee but only if the player has been defeated for, say, 3-5 minutes. Any other punitive measure is petty and vindictive.

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@CharterforGw.3149 said:and your point on rezzing a downed player... it's better to get downed players up and contnue to fight, than have them spawn miles away at the WP and have them move back to the fight (takes way longer and reduces damage more significantly)

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:Nothing you've said is optional. You want to tax players who choose to wait for a revive rather than running back.

So waiting for a revive instead of running back is playing the game?

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:It's a terrible idea to tax players for playing the game in a way you don't like.

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:Nothing you've said is optional. You want to tax players who choose to wait for a revive rather than running back.

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:It's a terrible idea to tax players for

playing

the game in a way you don't like.

So you know what every other person perceives as playing.besides, what if the person was already dead before the event started, but nobody rezzed that person, should they be taxed aswell?

@CharterforGw.3149 said:So you know what every other person perceives as playing.besides, what if the person was already dead before the event started, but nobody rezzed that person, should they be taxed aswell?

You are really calling sleeping on the floor playing?Yes they should be taxed as well, although to be fair the method to remove participation on the event in 30 seconds sounds (of being dead) better to me than taxing for a waypoint. So if he was already dead there won't be any tax.

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@CharterforGw.3149 said:So you

know

what every other person perceives as playing.besides, what if the person was already dead before the event started, but nobody rezzed that person, should they be taxed aswell?

No, i'm not saying "calling sleeping on the floor is playing", I'm saying you can't decide what someone considers playing.If someone likes to lay on the ground dead, it's their choice to consider it playing or not. I personally wouldn't call it that. but they might.

I'm not a big fan of the lazy laying around on the floor while everyone else does the work, especially when often WPs are very close by.

But I don't think charging would be the best way to go about it, a lot of the people being lazy and staying dead will probably just see it as a small price for convenience, so it probably won't change much. Then while they're laying around dead they'll probably jump on the forums to complain about it.

I can't see the harm in just an auto return to nearest WP though, after a reasonable time, say 3-5 minutes or so.

Edit - Just to be clear I mean the fully dead laying around. I'm seeing some confusion above about downed players, downed players should always be rezzed.

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:Nothing you've said is optional. You want to tax players who choose to wait for a revive rather than running back.

Yes, btu they have the choice to either WP, or to pay the fee and wait for a rez. That is their option.

@Aurelian Omenkind.2470 said:Some players may choose not to WP and run back because of any number of logistical reasons: they’re still exploring that particular map and haven’t uncovered a reasonably close WP at which to respawn and run back to join the fight, they’re unsure how much longer said fight will take and feel they’d be too late to contribute in time, a nearby WP could be contested requiring an even longer run though potentially hostile and difficult zones, etc.

Yes, and they would still be able to do that. This is why I suggested a fee, rather than what many others have suggested, an automatic forced waypointing. This gives players the choice in which they would prefer.

@CharterforGw.3149 said:So you know what every other person perceives as playing.besides, what if the person was already dead before the event started, but nobody rezzed that person, should they be taxed aswell?

If they were dead before the event started then they would likely have been charged the fee (or auto-WPed) before the event started. It would be a 30 second timer, it would not be directly connected to any specific event.

@CharterforGw.3149 said:No, i'm not saying "calling sleeping on the floor is playing", I'm saying you can't decide what someone considers playing.If someone likes to lay on the ground dead, it's their choice to consider it playing or not. I personally wouldn't call it that. but they might.

And they could still do that. They'd just have to pay the fee for doing so.

@CharterforGw.3149 said:If someone likes to lay on the ground dead, it's their choice to consider it playing or not. I personally wouldn't call it that. but they might.

I don't even know what you are saying here. It's someone's choice to consider playing lying on the floor?It's not playing in any way because you are actively doing anything other than leeching and waiting to get your rewards.And not only it's not playing in any form, but it's also rude and inconsiderate to the other players that are finishing the event while the dead are afking on the floor.What's next? Players rushing to a big event, commit suicide and then go for a coffee while the others finish it.

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:Nothing you've said is optional. You want to tax players who choose to wait for a revive rather than running back.

You're being cheeky. Of course it is playing the game. There's a dozen reasons why players will just lay there and you know it. You're using semantics to nitpick, and it is going to go nowhere.

@Ohoni.6057 said:Yes, btu they have the choice to either WP, or to pay the fee and wait for a rez. That is their option.

Pay me 1000g or delete your account. Hey, you have a choice, so clearly it is all optional.

I think players should just auto revive after 50 seconds of defeated state (not down) at the nearest available waypoint or if the devs want to do something nice for PvE near the event. It shouldn't cost anything extra but just be built in and cost the exact same as it would to manually revive at the spot.

Unless Anet changed something dead players still scale events up, so it wouldn't just be rude to sit there dead you would punish the rest of the players by making the event harder by just lying there. So. I would support OPs suggestion.

The only problem with dead people on the battle field, is that I often try to fully ress them (thus stopping to dps the boss) and I often die in the attempt. But that's my fault, no one forces me to ress them, especially if they still lie very close to the boss. I should learn when I can run the risk, or let them wait.No one even assure you that after being teleported, they would come back anyway (they could say "f*** this community and this punitive game, I'll keep roaming somewhere else), or to avoid to die at any cost, they could go always fully ranged mode, lowering the dps. I lost some achievement a few times, because I decided to teleport and came back when the boss was already dead (for example against Ignis).I trust that if there are too many dead players, they would understand that it's better to teleport and help, rather than watch the event failing.

I find it to be a terrible idea. What if a player dies in a JP area (e.g. Not so Secret JP), where it would take a lot of time to get back? Or the player might simply have no close WPs unlocked... Of course, in boss fights players should be encouraged to use a waypoint (by telling them that in the dead state they are not contributing a lot to killing the boss), but not forced to do it.

@Vault Girl.6792 said:I find it to be a terrible idea. What if a player dies in a JP area (e.g. Not so Secret JP), where it would take a lot of time to get back? Or the player might simply have no close WPs unlocked... Of course, in boss fights players should be encouraged to use a waypoint (by telling them that in the dead state they are not contributing a lot to killing the boss), but not forced to do it.

It's about getting killed during events not getting killed anywhere so this is not an issue.

@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:You're being cheeky. Of course it is playing the game. There's a dozen reasons why players will just lay there and you know it. You're using semantics to nitpick, and it is going to go nowhere.

You are joking right? Yes there are reasons like for example "I want to leech" and this exactly what this post is about, a way to reduce or eliminate leechers.What I don't understand is why all this defense of leechers around here? Why is it "unfair" to penalize a leecher for not using a waypoint but it's fair for the leecher to leech?

I do agree that people should learn to use nearest wp if possible at some events. But I think this idea of a fee or even teleport to nearest wp is horrible. Especially since you are saying this would not be limited to certain events like worldbosses, but everywhere.

We don't know if the reason some might go afk/stay dead is something other than lazy... unexpected phonecall, baby crying, children fighting, dog acting up, cat demanding attention, parents calling you to do a chore... so many possible reasons people have to go temporarily afk in a hurry or being distracted. Valid reasons that should not be punished.

@Zeefa.3915 said:We don't know if the reason some might go afk/stay dead is something other than lazy... unexpected phonecall, baby crying, children fighting, dog acting up, cat demanding attention, parents calling you to do a chore... so many possible reasons people have to go temporarily afk in a hurry or being distracted. Valid reasons that should not be punished.

They can deal with all those reasons at a waypoint and not in a fight. Not taking the 10 seconds to go to a waypoint is also lazy. And even if they have reasons like that, they are STILL leeching. And automatically porting them to a waypoint solves the problem anyway, how is it "punishment"?