About the people saying WvW is dead

It seems to me, that the biggest issue with WvW is making casual players hate it because it's pretty different from PvP and Pve. There's also the fact that it might not be your type of gameplay but that's more understandable.Usually, when people get into WvW oriented guilds who can properly guide them and make them a bit more invested on the game mode, hey never leave the borderlands and hardly ever see the light of PvE ever again.What I feel WvW has as it's critical weakness, is a proper guide of how the game mode functions, but since the way every server/guild plays differs it's pretty much impossible to make a proper one unless you join a guild dedicated to that mode and kind enough to train you.

WvW is dead because arenanet failed to deliver a propper fight focused gamemode, all they do instead is giving us retarded shit like siege, tactivators, undestroyable gates, then the game just becones extremly boring for fight focused commanders/guilds since all they can do is to fight a door for 3 hours to get inside a T3 keep and get maybe a 5-10 min fight out of it (nobody is going to do this). Clearly no pugmander or guild wants to play like this at least not the hardcore ones. Because of that game lost many many many players/guilds up to a poin where there are none left at least on NA there are maybe 1 or 2 guilds per server instead of 5-10 this causes an issue for the remaining fight focused guilds/commanders cuz they cannot find fights, making them quit too. this has been going on for years now to a point where the game mode cannot be sustained anymore by the leftover population, there is hardly any commander to follow, all people do nowdays is sit on a keep, treb a wall, farm pips somehow and log off.Sure there is still some roaming to do but thi is also affected by the lack of big scale action in WvW since all roamers like to gank arround some areas and whatnot all you find now is T3 structures and people hiding inside making that gameplay also kinda boring compared to what it is when people is actually foced to engage while not having where to hide.Arenanet needs to adress this problem by maybe removing the servers as a whole, creating 6-9 (more than this can't be supported at least on NA where there are like maybe 20 WvW guilds left) worlds tops, but not without changing some core mechanics to make the game more action/fight focused and this way maybe some of the players will come back and also be way more attractive to new players to get into. As it is right now new players join the game there is nobody to follow, nobody to guide them on comms about what the game mode is all about, then they just get bored doing random stuff and never try WvW again.Usually guilds will not recruit complete noobs to WvW, that is where pugmanders play a big part, they can train this new players, guide them and making them like the game mode before they decide to join a more hardcore guild, without commanders WvW is dead, commanders are a vital link for new players to actually get hooked into WvW.

I feel other issue, and that is what is the goal really. All the wins/losses lack the feel of impact. Iv played WvW for little over half year now, gained a lot of skill and experience, but it definitely is not as fun as when I was a newbies. Its easy to predict fights and what exactly is gonna happen, and its easy to feel like no matter what you do the winner is decided by who does more PPT over the night. All in all its pretty hard to keep motivated as the repetitive and zero impact nature of the whole thing looses to fun factor over time.

This is especially true for me on Desolation, which is a server that has been on steep decline for months now. We are not linked, marked as full, but at the same time rarely have any blob at all, and the bad players remain bad and the good play less and less or transferred away, so the fights get more frustrating as you have like 5-10 people you know that will do their job, rest is complete pug mess + the enemy outnumbers you pretty much constantly every evening. This hurts especially knowing there are comms that daily train people and teach basics, but despite that overall player quality is decreasing and even those few heroes are running out of strenght and passion now. And I like the big fights, I'm not here to flip towers with 5 guys deep in the night to not drop to lowest tear possible, that's really not what Im here to do. That being said, there is not much wonder why its happening, our community is pretty toxic and those who cause it they do stay and keep kittening around and the good guys leave.

So now Im standing before a question to wait it out, let everyone leave and try rebuild from scratch, or transfer, or just drop it and take a break from the game once again.

One more thing I will say, the most hostility Iv experienced was when I was completely new to it, aka total newbies in early March this year. It was really bad, especially since Iv decided to be active and visible, aka I was vocal, making videos, etc. The toxicity and hate was really trough the roof. I would be spared of it if I was a silent grey mouse in the corner that none cares about, but that's another problem. We have too many silent grey mouses that never talk, usually not even chat (ever) and are just fallowing the comm and if the comm himself is boring the whole raid tends to be a resident-sleeper slugfest just waiting to be wiped. Of all MMO's Iv played this one has the highest % of completely asocial 0 communication people. I was really surprised how few people do communicate in WVW, or care about anything at all.

People should probably read the wiki on wvw.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World_versus_WorldA lot of good basic information to start off with there.

There use to be servers that ran teaching periods to help casual and new players with wvw basics and commanding, but that's all pretty much died off over the years. I believe there's suppose to be a npc instructor in citadel right as you spawn in to explain the basics, think maybe I clicked on them like once, didn't really need it being a veteran from day one. A lot things you tend to pick up as you play and learn from the experience.

Figuring out the role you want to perform and then joining a guild with similar players, tends to get you much more involved with wvw.

We used to have a sticky with a good explanation. It didn't get moved over.

Trying to subvert the game mode into something that it was not intended to be is also killing it because players leave when they don't get what they want.

Match reward win needs to be better but then the "Sever stacking" issue will raise it's ugly head, which that fault lyes on both sides.

@Loosmaster.8263 said:We used to have a sticky with a good explanation. It didn't get moved over.

Trying to subvert the game mode into something that it was not intended to be is also killing it because players leave when they don't get what they want.

Match reward win needs to be better but then the "Sever stacking" issue will raise it's ugly head, which that fault lyes on both sides.

Here is a link to the archived post:https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/WvW-some-things-you-should-know

@Miyafuji.1340 said:I feel other issue, and that is what is the goal really. All the wins/losses lack the feel of impact. Iv played WvW for little over half year now, gained a lot of skill and experience, but it definitely is not as fun as when I was a newbies. Its easy to predict fights and what exactly is gonna happen, and its easy to feel like no matter what you do the winner is decided by who does more PPT over the night. All in all its pretty hard to keep motivated as the repetitive and zero impact nature of the whole thing looses to fun factor over time.

This is especially true for me on Desolation, which is a server that has been on steep decline for months now. We are not linked, marked as full, but at the same time rarely have any blob at all, and the bad players remain bad and the good play less and less or transferred away, so the fights get more frustrating as you have like 5-10 people you know that will do their job, rest is complete pug mess + the enemy outnumbers you pretty much constantly every evening. This hurts especially knowing there are comms that daily train people and teach basics, but despite that overall player quality is decreasing and even those few heroes are running out of strenght and passion now. And I like the big fights, I'm not here to flip towers with 5 guys deep in the night to not drop to lowest tear possible, that's really not what Im here to do. That being said, there is not much wonder why its happening, our community is pretty toxic and those who cause it they do stay and keep kittening around and the good guys leave.

So now Im standing before a question to wait it out, let everyone leave and try rebuild from scratch, or transfer, or just drop it and take a break from the game once again.

One more thing I will say, the most hostility Iv experienced was when I was completely new to it, aka total newbies in early March this year. It was really bad, especially since Iv decided to be active and visible, aka I was vocal, making videos, etc. The toxicity and hate was really trough the roof. I would be spared of it if I was a silent grey mouse in the corner that none cares about, but that's another problem. We have too many silent grey mouses that never talk, usually not even chat (ever) and are just fallowing the comm and if the comm himself is boring the whole raid tends to be a resident-sleeper slugfest just waiting to be wiped. Of all MMO's Iv played this one has the highest % of completely asocial 0 communication people. I was really surprised how few people do communicate in WVW, or care about anything at all.

Yeah that's pretty much exactly what I'm doing right now. Taking a extended break from GW2. I might come back tomorrow and grind my 3 grandmaster marks in PvP. Then continue taking my extended break.

WvW used to be helluve fun before ANet turned the game mode. Into a anti-fight, server stacking, omni-blobing, PvD Gamemode. At that point I too watched large numbers of fight guilds leave the game. Until finally I'm taking my long extended break.

I don't even know if I'll even make a full return. From the looks of it ANet has pretty much stop putting any effort towards WvW development. And the PvP gamemode is has been going that way for a while now.

Far as I'm concerned at this point. The only thing that GW2 has is PvE. And other MMOs have much better and engaging PvE then GW2 atm. Only different is they are sub-base and or grind/skill intensive. Which atm I don't mind putting the extra money and time to them. It's a clear case of " you get what you pay for".

@Raven.1524 said:

What I feel WvW has as it's critical weakness, is a proper guide of how the game mode functions

I feel you, even as a long time veteran of the mode, I think they have over complicated many things with WvW, to the point that it must be exhausting as a new player to try and figure out, just take the scoring as an example, it is absolute spaghetti, trying to make sense of it for a new comer must be extremely difficult, and even for me I find it bothersome.

@Rampage.7145 said:WvW is dead because arenanet failed to deliver a propper fight focused gamemode... ...all they can do is to fight a door for 3 hours to get inside a T3 keep and get maybe a 5-10 min fight out of it...

You could say that the pvp content is... gated!

@Reaper Alim.4176 said:WvW used to be helluve fun before ANet turned the game mode. Into a anti-fight, server stacking, omni-blobing, PvD Gamemode.Anet didn't do that, that's how most of the playerbase chooses to play.

@Hyper Cutter.9376 said:

@Reaper Alim.4176 said:WvW used to be helluve fun before ANet turned the game mode. Into a anti-fight, server stacking, omni-blobing, PvD Gamemode.Anet didn't do that, that's how most of the playerbase

chooses

to play.

So you are telling me tactivators, all of the nerfs to small scale builds other than thief and mesmer, all of the PvE balancing by ANet didn't steer WvW in this direction?

@Hyper Cutter.9376 said:

@"Reaper Alim.4176" said:WvW used to be helluve fun before ANet turned the game mode. Into a anti-fight, server stacking, omni-blobing, PvD Gamemode.Anet didn't do that, that's how most of the playerbase

chooses

to play.

Tactivators single-handedly killed Havoking. Which, in turn, forced players to run together in larger blobs in order to take t2/t3 objectives. All the while, allowing those same objectives to be defended well enough by a skeleton crew for duration of time it takes for a blob to show up and wipe the attacking side.

Other contributing factors are the influx of new/casual players to the game-mode, whose only interests are either pips for the legendary armour or the reward track for the gift of battle. And the sheer lack of WvW balancing that has forced a condi meta which supports boring, pirate-ship fights.

So if the meta is: "Whoever-Can-Stack-The-Most-Condi's-Wins", with winning pretty much guaranteeing that rewards tracks are gained faster and weekly pips are fully secured, people are obviously going to stack servers in order to make sure they win.

@KalasDelRio.8921 said:

@Hyper Cutter.9376 said:

@"Reaper Alim.4176" said:WvW used to be helluve fun before ANet turned the game mode. Into a anti-fight, server stacking, omni-blobing, PvD Gamemode.Anet didn't do that, that's how most of the playerbase

chooses

to play.

I know right. But lets all pretend that this was the players fault. And not the game mechanics and changes fault. :astonished:

@Rampage.7145 said:WvW is dead because arenanet failed to deliver a propper fight focused gamemode, all they do instead is giving us kitten kitten like siege, tactivators, undestroyable gates, then the game just becones extremly boring for fight focused commanders/guilds since all they can do is to fight a door for 3 hours to get inside a T3 keep and get maybe a 5-10 min fight out of it (nobody is going to do this). Clearly no pugmander or guild wants to play like this at least not the hardcore ones. Because of that game lost many many many players/guilds up to a poin where there are none left at least on NA there are maybe 1 or 2 guilds per server instead of 5-10 this causes an issue for the remaining fight focused guilds/commanders cuz they cannot find fights, making them quit too. this has been going on for years now to a point where the game mode cannot be sustained anymore by the leftover population, there is hardly any commander to follow, all people do nowdays is sit on a keep, treb a wall, farm pips somehow and log off.

This is the one of the most infuriating thing in recent WvW. It takes forever to get into a t3 keep with all the new sieges, new traps, disablers, tactivators and stuff. There's nothing fun in trying to break down a dam wall for hours and hours without even getting a single fight out of it. It is pretty much a siege -> resupply for new sieges -> running simulator. The new wp system that doesn't open every 3 minutes also killed any fun long keep fights. Keep fights are now incredibly short and you won't even get a second chance if you're wiped just once which makes people want to turtle inside the walls even more.

Not saying anet should completely remove traps, disablers and tactivators (though should nerfed), but at least re-enable wp every 3 minutes, so we can funnel people back into action and actually get long fights in the keep instead of playing siege -> counter siege war for hours.

@ThunderPanda.1872 said:

@Rampage.7145 said:WvW is dead because arenanet failed to deliver a propper fight focused gamemode, all they do instead is giving us kitten kitten like siege, tactivators, undestroyable gates, then the game just becones extremly boring for fight focused commanders/guilds since all they can do is to fight a door for 3 hours to get inside a T3 keep and get maybe a 5-10 min fight out of it (nobody is going to do this). Clearly no pugmander or guild wants to play like this at least not the hardcore ones. Because of that game lost many many many players/guilds up to a poin where there are none left at least on NA there are maybe 1 or 2 guilds per server instead of 5-10 this causes an issue for the remaining fight focused guilds/commanders cuz they cannot find fights, making them quit too. this has been going on for years now to a point where the game mode cannot be sustained anymore by the leftover population, there is hardly any commander to follow, all people do nowdays is sit on a keep, treb a wall, farm pips somehow and log off.

I personally think that completely removing the PvE earned WvW tactivators. Would go a long ways towards bring back some fun into WvW. Can't tell you how many times I past by a watchtowered tower or and then shortly afterwards a pack of 20 plus zerglings comes to chase me down.

wvw population gonna drop after this patch.just wait and see.give it a month and every server will open simply because a good bunch of people will simply quit from every server.waiting 3 months and getting absolutely nothing for wvw is a spit in the face from anet.