Will PoF Shake up the meta? Should it?

As we wait out the last days before PoF releases, I'm curious where people's expectations are for the PvE meta. HoT gave us some elite specs with some incredibly strong support in Chronos and Druids. While I've heard some speculation about new builds that could provide might as an alternative to a PS war, it seems like a lot of HoT builds will still be best in raids.

Personally, I'll probably be a bit disappointed if this comes to pass. I mean, I don't want a power creep with elite specs that just are flat out better in every way, but I can't imagine that it would be good for the game to have a bunch of brand new shiny elite specs that only see use in PvP or open world content.

Their main focus with elite specs should be balance, and more than likely is. It should shake up the meta, but because their are more options, not just different ones. Fingers crossed.

Speaking for raids. I can see

Holosmith and Weaver in for dpsAnd scourge for utility/supportI pray for soulbeast....=(I don't think druid or chrono are going anywhere ever lol .

Keep in mind I didn't touch any of the betas so my opinion is irrelevant

It wil prob and it should. Meta is stale.

It will definitely shake up the meta. But I expect GW2raidar to also shake up the meta, as people are forced to admit that, in practice, most people play like crap when playing "top DPS" builds, and are actually outperformed by other builds that have simpler rotations.

I'm praying that they either nerf/change condition damage based builds, so more power ones have a place, or give certain power builds an overall facelift so that they aren't shunned from groups outside of friends/guildies.

Dps slots might get more variety, that would be awesome. I'm afraid chrono,druid,cps will just stay as they are....the only way to get more classes in compositions is for most of the unique buffs to be 10-man just like gotl and banners are now.

Weaver may not have the pulsing damage that tempest offers though, and the 3.5s universal CD prevent fast rotations on top of lacking pulsing damages. But who knows, maybe weaver has more superior condi option

But I agree, chrono still offers both alacrity/quickness, druid still offers superior burst healing and team buff and cPS now has decent dps damage on top of near unparalleled team buffs.

Renegade in its current state, apart from the big problem it has, is realy promising in a raiding scenario, and in fractals. It will probably get some tweaks so it can even be better than expected. Fingers crossed.

Ot should shake up the meta in that there is more diversity. From a casual standpoint it looks that way, Ill let other people min/max everything.

PS Warrior defin looks like it won't be crucial. It will still be easier to bring a PS Warrior but it looks like there will other ways to stack might without on.

Doesn't look like much will change apart from the addition of possible new DPS builds. There might be a balancing patch coming soon after and we didn't have the opportunity to try any of the builds in an actual raid yet. We will find out soon enough, besides.

It should, as the current state of the meta is too rigid in regards to anything but the dps slots. 60% of the party/squad is fixed and it doesn't leave enough space for actual comp diversity.

However, I doubt PoF will manage this issue. Firebrand looks interesting, but whether it will make it as a valid support option in meta is a different story. Druid doesn't seem to be endangered of being replaced at all (too many group dps buffs) and neither is the PS, really. At this point I don't consider adding/replacing dps options an actual change of the meta.

Nothing will change with the meta. It's still going to be Chrono, Druid, cPS, 2 DPS x2. Until Anet hands out Alacrity (in a non-joke way), banner buffs, spirit buffs, and GotL to the other classes, there will be no change. Anet needs to get off their high horse and do what other MMOs have done and redo buffs so that there is a limited number of catagories and each class can only tick off a few of them. Unlike right now where 3 classes tick off all of the buffs therefore everyone else gets shit on.

Will the current meta change? a little bit.I do believe that there will be a lot more build variety once PoF has been out for a while, which imo is a welcomed change, but nothing that will outright change the meta. However, as mentioned before Chrono, Druid, and Cps are a necessity atm due to the unique buffs that they provide. Though scourge does look promising though assuming they go full support.

@Demeth.5816 said:Renegade in its current state, apart from the big problem it has, is realy promising in a raiding scenario, and in fractals. It will probably get some tweaks so it can even be better than expected. Fingers crossed.

Renegade is already mad, i managed to push 14k dps with 0 might and no buffs on a bounty while none was around, and that was without proper rotation and constant dodging of painful attacks. So if nothing gets changed about renegade, it will 100% end up in the raid meta. Don't forget that was solo dmg, it will stack more bleeds from summons while in a party.

@supa suop.8026 said:Will the current meta change? a little bit.I do believe that there will be a lot more build variety once PoF has been out for a while, which imo is a welcomed change, but nothing that will outright change the meta. However, as mentioned before Chrono, Druid, and Cps are a necessity atm due to the unique buffs that they provide. Though scourge does look promising though assuming they go full support.

Scourges going full support won't be helpful in current raids. Health isn't much of a concern if you have good Chronos/Druids, and that's all Scourges can really provide. They may make Mathias and Slothasuar a little easier, though with the short cooldown condi cleanse, though they're so starved for life force, they chose between that and Desert Shroud.

If all the new specs do is add new DPS builds then I will be really disappointed.Something needs to shake up the "big three", Chrono, Druid and PS, to open up more variety in PVE

Phalanx Strength increasing to 10 targets would probably remove one Warrior from its "required" slot.

• Soulbeast is a direct improvement on condition Ranger
• Holosmith is a direct improvement on condition Engineer
• Mirage is a direct improvement on condition Mesmer
• Renegade is a direct improvement on condition Revenant (and will be incredible DPS in general)
• Firebrand may enable alternative subgroup compositions for quickness uptime

That's about all I can think of overall. Not a lot of shakeup, although I'm interested to see the DPS difference in a DPS Chronomancer/Quickness Firebrand setup compared against a generic high-performing DPS/Quickness Chronomancer.

I fully agree with Azoqu and maddoc. The "holy trinity" of PS, druid and chrono needs to be shaken up. Desperately.

One thing to take note of is that HoT raids we're balanced in favor of using your espec (with some exceptions I know).We are going to have people who have PoF but not HoT, meaning it would be in the raid designers' best interests to balance these encounters assuming people have access to PoF specs and not HoT specs. What this means, I have no idea, but it's something to think about.

@Odokuro.5049 said:I'm praying that they either nerf/change condition damage based builds, so more power ones have a place, or give certain power builds an overall facelift so that they aren't shunned from groups outside of friends/guildies.

Condi builds should have a higher ceiling due to their ramp up, but not by much. 1-2k advantage is pretty fair.

The problem is most power builds are trash because outside thief and guardian power weapon autoattacks for other classes are trash DPS, and none of the power specs have the dragonhunter traps to fill those DPS gaps in between whirling wraths.

Thief staff auto does more DPS than 100 blades, a stationary skill. It's just retarded.

Ranger greatsword and even mainhand sword do a measly 20k DPS, with their autoattacks doing about half of what thief autos do despite the pet only accounding for 3-4k DPS at best (and most pets don't even cleave, unlike guardian greatsword, warrior greatsword, and thief staff). Ranger's maul hits for what a bounding dodge does on average, it's pitiful.

Think about it, guardian greatsword does more autoattack DPS than necromancer greatsword despite having lower cast times, and whirling wrath does more damage than gravedigger because of the damage modifiers dragonhunter gets.

Guardian traps do more damage than necro wells and have almost half the cooldown while also providing boons. Won't even mention ranger traps as outside flame trap they're all universally terrible.

They nerfed revenant's autoattacks for being too high when they even weren't on the same league of thief staff and then they went and buffed thief autos on the scale of 30%.

Thief's Vault hits harder than a gravedigger, is a leap, has evade frames, and has a shorter cast time then gravedigger.

Thief auto on staff applies vulnerability and then reflects. Necro greatsword does nothing but a final 2 second chill on the last strike.

It's abysmal class balance any way you cut it.

Even power mesmer is horrible balance because they shoved all this ramp up damage onto phantasms on a class with no cleave or aoe, and making phantasms even mroe important for DPS made shatters, the core class mechanic, even more useless as you never want to shatter or you'll gut your DPS.

@Coffietire.2783 said:One thing to take note of is that HoT raids we're balanced in favor of using your espec (with some exceptions I know).We are going to have people who have PoF but not HoT, meaning it would be in the raid designers' best interests to balance these encounters assuming people have access to PoF specs and not HoT specs. What this means, I have no idea, but it's something to think about.

This is true. The new Raids should be balanced around not having Chronomancers, Druids and Berserkers. What this means for the game, we'll find out soon enough. All the more reason to have alternatives to those three in the new elite specs.

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Coffietire.2783 said:One thing to take note of is that HoT raids we're balanced in favor of using your espec (with some exceptions I know).We are going to have people who have PoF but not HoT, meaning it would be in the raid designers' best interests to balance these encounters assuming people have access to PoF specs and not HoT specs. What this means, I have no idea, but it's something to think about.

That would mean making the raids easier because most of these new elite specs are flat out inferior to those in HoT.

@Zenith.7301 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Coffietire.2783 said:One thing to take note of is that HoT raids we're balanced in favor of using your espec (with some exceptions I know).We are going to have people who have PoF but not HoT, meaning it would be in the raid designers' best interests to balance these encounters assuming people have access to PoF specs and not HoT specs. What this means, I have no idea, but it's something to think about.

Exactly why they shouldn't be inferior.