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WvW Changes


Vova.2640

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World vs. WorldGeneralProofs of Heroics and Testimonies of Heroics can now be used in the PvP lobby.

Oil pot range is now 800.

Eternal BattlegroundsOgrewatch Cut has had a large revision.

Truly addresses everything WvW needed!Well done!

That being said, cya all in 3 months (maybe).

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We were addressing map issues with Ogre Watch that arose with the addition of gliding. There was a big advantage red had in regard to the Ogre Watch tower. While addressing this issue we ran into another issue of range for the oil pot and so we had to adjust the range.

There was no reason why you couldn't use the Proof and Testimonies in the PvP lobby so we adjusted those items to no longer be restricted (this is kind of an on going thing where lots of items were flagged to not be allowed in the PvP lobby erroneously)

Desert Borderlands Map is one of the maps that has had the most adjustments made. If you have specific suggestions I'd love to hear them! Make a new Topic so the post doesn't get flagged.

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Necromancer

Skills

Blood Is Power (World vs. World): This skill's PvP split has been extended to WvW and will now use the lower 20-second cooldown.

Deathly Chill (World vs. World): This skill's PvP split has been extended to WvW and will now apply 1 stack of bleeding for 8 seconds upon chill application.

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@Raymond Lukes.6305 said:We were addressing map issues with Ogre Watch that arose with the addition of gliding. There was a big advantage red had in regard to the Ogre Watch tower. While addressing this issue we ran into another issue of range for the oil pot and so we had to adjust the range.

Desert Borderlands Map is one of the maps that has had the most adjustments made. If you have specific suggestions I'd love to hear them! Make a new Topic so the post doesn't get flagged.

So.... what about the 2 northern towers in alpine BL vs the 2 northern towers in desert BL ??It's quite literally the exact same issue.

You can glide straight in to defend those towers in alpine after a short walk from citadel WP.But in the desert you have to run like 2 or 3 times the distance to reach the tower, then when you finally reach it, you also have to run all the way around to actually get to lords room. Those two towers honestly feel useless just because how far they are.Why was OW thing addressed but the northern towers were not ??

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@Vova.2640 said:

@Raymond Lukes.6305 said:We were addressing map issues with Ogre Watch that arose with the addition of gliding. There was a big advantage red had in regard to the Ogre Watch tower. While addressing this issue we ran into another issue of range for the oil pot and so we had to adjust the range.

Desert Borderlands Map is one of the maps that has had the most adjustments made. If you have specific suggestions I'd love to hear them! Make a new Topic so the post doesn't get flagged.

So.... what about the 2 northern towers in alpine BL vs the 2 northern towers in desert BL ??It's quite literally the exact same issue.

You can glide straight in to defend those towers in alpine after a short walk from citadel WP.But in the desert you have to run like 2 or 3 times the distance to reach the tower, then when you finally reach it, you also have to run all the way around to actually get to lords room. Those two towers honestly feel useless just because how far they are.Why was OW thing addressed but the northern towers were not ??

Probably because of the wholesale issue that would make the change too problematic. Towers in the DBL don't relate well to the keeps strategy wise, which is only further personified with this change.

I do like in the DBL that the home thirds for red and green allow them to glide into their own keeps, which is also allowed for red.

Towers in DBL have always been kind of strategically limited value.

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@Vova.2640 said:

@"Raymond Lukes.6305" said:We were addressing map issues with Ogre Watch that arose with the addition of gliding. There was a big advantage red had in regard to the Ogre Watch tower. While addressing this issue we ran into another issue of range for the oil pot and so we had to adjust the range.

Desert Borderlands Map is one of the maps that has had the most adjustments made. If you have specific suggestions I'd love to hear them! Make a new Topic so the post doesn't get flagged.

So.... what about the 2 northern towers in alpine BL vs the 2 northern towers in desert BL ??It's quite literally the exact same issue.

You can glide straight in to defend those towers in alpine after a short walk from citadel WP.But in the desert you have to run like 2 or 3 times the distance to reach the tower, then when you finally reach it, you also have to run all the way around to actually get to lords room. Those two towers honestly feel useless just because how far they are.Why was OW thing addressed but the northern towers were not ??

The boarderland maps were designed to allow the "home" team an advantage. While the "red" towers in the DBL aren't able to be glided to they do have a significant positional advantage in distance to the Blue and Green spanws. The back entrance to Eternal Necropolis gets you close to the lord but the run to the lord in O'del Academy is a little long. I've added it to the list-o-things to look into. Thanks for the feedback!

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"There was a big advantage red had in regard to the Ogre Watch tower" If you want to speak about the balance, i want to point something.

EB was balanced, during 5 years. Each team had 2 towers easily defendable from their keep. ( Aldon Jerrifer for greens, Langor Bravost for blues and Veloka Ogrewatch for reds). And they had 2 towers more vulnerable.
But now, you broke the balance. Reds have 3 towers vulnerables and only 1 protected by the keep. Reds have the only keep on EB which can be open frome stonemyst. And Reds have the desertic map, who is the hardest home to defend, because keeps and towers are way too large.how many red servers will win the next matchups ? Statistics will talk.

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I was not expecting anything big from WvW tbh. I do not have the original quote from the forums, but Anet did basically say that any major changes to WvW would be separate updates right? And if I am correct in that, then nobody should be complaining . I say we wait for the "changes" and when they come, then we talk about what we like/dislike. That is only fair imho.

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@Raymond Lukes.6305 said:We were addressing map issues with Ogre Watch that arose with the addition of gliding. There was a big advantage red had in regard to the Ogre Watch tower.Desert Borderlands Map is one of the maps that has had the most adjustments made. If you have specific suggestions I'd love to hear them! Make a new Topic so the post doesn't get flagged.

I'm sorry but I don't see a problem in giving red an advantage for their own tower, especially given how spaced out mendons and anzalias pass is. Red is also the 3rd team which usually is the weakest team in the match.

There's been dozens of desert borderland suggestions over the years, why it's badly designed compared to alpines which is more popular. Of course it had the most changes because it was the most broken wvw map released, even eotm was better designed. You guys still didn't even bother to address the ground clutter issue (it even came with pictures) I pointed out over a year ago.

If you guys think desert is fine the way it is, so be it, a lot of players still won't bother to play it as is.

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I'm not sure how they can say "there was a big advantage" for red with a straight face - you know, the team in last place in a tier. There is a reason a team is in last place in it's tier, and usually it's because it does not truly belong in the tier it is in (because of the forced 1 up 1 down). Blobs are still the same, and people have been successfully blobbing OW since gliding was introduced. All moving the tower has done is make it undefendable. Part of that is location, the largest part of that is tower design. There is NO place on a tower wall to place an arrow cart or balista that it can't just be destroyed. The only hope of defending is if the attackers only use a ram and it can be hit through the door with a catapult or treb.

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@"Raymond Lukes.6305" said:We were addressing map issues with Ogre Watch that arose with the addition of gliding. There was a big advantage red had in regard to the Ogre Watch tower. While addressing this issue we ran into another issue of range for the oil pot and so we had to adjust the range.

There was no reason why you couldn't use the Proof and Testimonies in the PvP lobby so we adjusted those items to no longer be restricted (this is kind of an on going thing where lots of items were flagged to not be allowed in the PvP lobby erroneously)

Desert Borderlands Map is one of the maps that has had the most adjustments made. If you have specific suggestions I'd love to hear them! Make a new Topic so the post doesn't get flagged.

Hopefully you read posts that quote you...If you fixed OW because it gave red an "advantage" (I'm not agreeing, just quoting), than you need to move red keeps outer walls back, because we are the only side that can treb SMC from the keep. Red being the only one who can treb SMC from their keep is a clear advantage...please remedy this too.

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@Raymond Lukes.6305 said:We were addressing map issues with Ogre Watch that arose with the addition of gliding. There was a big advantage red had in regard to the Ogre Watch tower. While addressing this issue we ran into another issue of range for the oil pot and so we had to adjust the range.

There was no reason why you couldn't use the Proof and Testimonies in the PvP lobby so we adjusted those items to no longer be restricted (this is kind of an on going thing where lots of items were flagged to not be allowed in the PvP lobby erroneously)

Desert Borderlands Map is one of the maps that has had the most adjustments made. If you have specific suggestions I'd love to hear them! Make a new Topic so the post doesn't get flagged.

I think that changes to Ogreswatch were fair as it now make it a true outer tower as was designed. There are some flaws with it as its so weak to attack, but anybody who captures it will be able to catapult our keep from it. Making something that is so easily captured for the other team with such a big advantage such as catapulting the keep seems to be flawed. Also now that you have fixed Ogreswatch from being so strong I think you guys should take a look at Mendons gap. Right now there are three weak towers for red side.

edit: After other testing you can even treb the outer geri from smc making red keep contested constantly. You think they would test this stuff a little more before implementing it...

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@Ubi.4136 said:That being said, they had better move the red keep wall back far enough that it CAN NOT be trebbed from SMC anymore...it's only fair right? None of the other two keeps can be trebbed from SMC, so why can red? I will wait patiently for your expedited correction of this oversight.

To kick them when their down?

As always, don't hold your breath when it comes to expediting anything to wvw. Slow and steady (debatable) is how they handle that.

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@Raymond Lukes.6305 said:We were addressing map issues with Ogre Watch that arose with the addition of gliding. There was a big advantage red had in regard to the Ogre Watch tower. While addressing this issue we ran into another issue of range for the oil pot and so we had to adjust the range.

There was no reason why you couldn't use the Proof and Testimonies in the PvP lobby so we adjusted those items to no longer be restricted (this is kind of an on going thing where lots of items were flagged to not be allowed in the PvP lobby erroneously)

Desert Borderlands Map is one of the maps that has had the most adjustments made. If you have specific suggestions I'd love to hear them! Make a new Topic so the post doesn't get flagged.

The desert map is still too big and too complicated to traverse. Like today for example, we got warning that enemy blob arrived at fire keep, they just arrived, aka it got reported as early as it could, yet, no matter how we tried, we did not manage to get there in time from spawn (ah home, we are red) to prevent them capping it. It just takes too long to get anywhere on that map.

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@Arda.2490 said:Reds have the only keep on EB which can be open frome stonemyst.

Not true. Trebs on the top floor can hit walls at QL and Durios which are blue. There are some in green that can be hit from SMC as well.

Check this out (red are really catas, and blue are trebs): http://i.imgur.com/8PMN8As.jpg

EDIT: unless you mean the home keep?

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@juno.1840 said:

@Arda.2490 said:Reds have the only keep on EB which can be open frome stonemyst.

Not true. Trebs on the top floor can hit walls at QL and Durios which are blue. There are some in green that can be hit from SMC as well.

Check this out (red are really catas, and blue are trebs):
http://i.imgur.com/8PMN8As.jpg

EDIT: unless you mean the home keep?

Yes, they mean the actual keep. QL, Durios, WC, Klov, OW and Anz are towers. Red has the only Keep that can be trebbed from the castle. Red is also the only side that can have it's inner of the Keep trebbed from an "outer" tower. It is expected that if you lose an inner tower someone can just treb inner, but red can have it's inner trebbed from both OW and the vista hill above it.

Both green and blue have well designed towers. Red has 1 such tower (Anz), but it is the only one of the kind that 3 walls can fail. Mendons is horribly designed and OW is just.../sigh. Can't even put siege on the supply depot.

To handicap red even further, their home BL is desert. It's almost like Anet is purposely trying to ensure the weakest server in a matchup has the hardest time.

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@juno.1840 said:

@Arda.2490 said:Reds have the only keep on EB which can be open frome stonemyst.

Not true. Trebs on the top floor can hit walls at QL and Durios which are blue. There are some in green that can be hit from SMC as well.

Check this out (red are really catas, and blue are trebs):
http://i.imgur.com/8PMN8As.jpg

EDIT: unless you mean the home keep?

Pretty sure he means the main keep, not the towers...only the Red Keep can be hit by trebs from Stonemist, but the opposite is also true.

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