Is Invocation now better than Devastation?

Before the patch, Invocation was about a 500 personal damage increase from devastation(not including Assassin's Presence), but now with Forceful Persistence we get 7% extra damage while in mallyx and with Charged Mists we can use more skills before swapping legends back.

No, Overall Devastation provides more damage, and depending on If taking about PvP/WvW Invo List a huge amount of Burst Damage.

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:No, Overall Devastation provides more damage, and depending on If taking about PvP/WvW Invo List a huge amount of Burst Damage.

Have you done any testing? I tested assassin's presence a while ago and if put on only viper's geared people it's a ~1.5k dps increase. I have reason to believe that there's a chance that 7% extra damage on mallyx and an extra use of something like Icerazor's Ire could bring numbers close to that

I think it depends on how the rotation works out.

If we we can use a unyield anguish + still get normal rotation it might be but i don't know.

Needs lots of testing. All i can safely say.

@haventr.1630 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:No, Overall Devastation provides more damage, and depending on If taking about PvP/WvW Invo List a huge amount of Burst Damage.

Again I was mainly referencing Burst Damage in PvP/WvW Revenant took a huge loss with these changes, now in PvE I haven’t tested since I don’t care to much for PvE.

@Ertrak.9506 said:I think it depends on how the rotation works out.

If we we can use a unyield anguish + still get normal rotation it might be but i don't know.

Needs lots of testing. All i can safely say.

You can fit unyielding anguish and an addition summon into the rotation with charged mist.My question is how much raid dps is assassin's presence worth?

@Vulf.3098 said:

@Ertrak.9506 said:I think it depends on how the rotation works out.

If we we can use a unyield anguish + still get normal rotation it might be but i don't know.

Needs lots of testing. All i can safely say.

I did some tests a long time ago and if put on only condi geared people, it's about a 1.5k dps increase. this isnt including if put on power builds.

Prediction for next balance patch: ANET will reduce the ferocity bonus on Assassin’s Presence when they realize people are still taking Dev over Invo...you heard it here first.

@Exalted Quality.8534 said:Prediction for next balance patch: ANET will reduce the ferocity bonus on Assassin’s Presence when they realize people are still taking Dev over Invo...you heard it here first.

Would people honestly be surprised by this? It is already bad design that the big reason you pick this specialization tree is for one trait.Even with the changes to invocation, devastation (assassin's presence) still provides more raid wide dps.

IF there are no zerker builds in my party, then invocation is well worth it, the rotation is highly satisfying as well, embrace the darkness + citadel bombardment... etc. swap, soul cleave + razor claw etc., repeat. (talking raids and certain high hp bosses) most of the new POF open world champs are really better off getting the shortbow vs mele as there is rarely reliable healing in open world and also there tends to be a LOT of hate coming down in mele range in PoF. Also in a lot of raid and PoF content there is actually a great argument to be made to run bolstered anguish over abyssal chill as there are a lot of condis going out in some of the content.

I found this was round about 2-4k more DPS than Dev while benchmarking on golem (probably a bit more in reality given you can work soulcleave into the rotation).

Of course as soon as you get a Zerker Ele or Holosmith or what have you in your party, AP becomes very very good.

Was soul cleave ever fixed to actually proc the new invocation trait (7% dmg while upkeeping)?

Last i tested it didn't, and as irrelevent as it is, ventari bubble doesn't either.