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how do you handle a fb+scourge?


Kuya.6495

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So this isn't a complaint thread but more so a brainstorming thread. Now that scourge and fb weren't nerfed, it's safe to say they will remain team staples for the foreseeable future.

Now, let's discuss strategies for fightinf this duo. For starters:

  1. do you focus the scourge or the fb first?
  2. if you focus the fb first, what classes/builds are best to kill it as quickly as possible?
  3. if you focus the scourge first, what classes/builds are best for killing it as quickly as possible?

During the tempest+reaper meta, the reigning strategy was to target the reaper first and thfs were one of the best classes to use for focusing down a reaper quickly. Is this strategy still useful for fb+scourge?

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Hey I play Druid Ranger here. Mass condi cleanse is necessary. Especially in PUGs. I use signet of renewel to remove all condis at once or Celestial Avatar form to get rid of them. Wait for the scourge to bomb you with condis then purge them off when you're sure you've got all of them. Then, time willing, help your team cleanse them if you can. FB is a matter of dodging and not standing in the fire more than anything. Stun breaks and vigor are your friends. That's all I've got in my experience.

Also yes, focus the scourge first. They're easier to kill. As far as best classes, I've had success with power builds.

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@Nicknobreak.7543 said:Hey I play Druid Ranger here. Mass condi cleanse is necessary. Especially in PUGs. I use signet of renewel to remove all condis at once or Celestial Avatar form to get rid of them. Wait for the scourge to bomb you with condis then purge them off when you're sure you've got all of them. Then, time willing, help your team cleanse them if you can. FB is a matter of dodging and not standing in the fire more than anything. Stun breaks and vigor are your friends. That's all I've got in my experience.

Bunker FB is the problem, not their burns. It is very very difficult to break through FB defences since their stunbreaks/stability application exceed incoming CCs until you have 3+ players with heavy offence on them, plus they have more condi clear and healing than anything else in the game when traited properly.

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Note i am referring to bunker fbs. And the assumption in this thread is not that are you soloing an fb and scourgw duo. The idea is what combination of classes best counter an fb and scourge duo. For example if you were going for the fb, taking something that can rip boons and dps spike like thf +sb might be good. Additionally, of you decide to go for the scourge first, you can choose two classes to spike the scourge and something to occupy the fb.

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@Nicknobreak.7543 said:

@Razor.6392 said:Leave the point.

This. If you have 3 guys in a point, rethink your strategy. Take other points instead assuming you're not in a good position tick wise.

Not necessarily. 3v2 a scourge and fb is not bad if you can kill them within 5-15seconds. It's the time that is the issue. And also, this thread is assuming that there's a 5v5 at mid.

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You have 3 options:1- Bring your own scourge+firebrand and hope they are better/equal to the enemy's.2- Attempt to outnumber them with heavy burst. Numbers required depends on what your comp has available to it but 4 is a safe bet.3- Accept that they will always control a point and just try to rotate around to the other 2 points.

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Heavy power pressure on FB first, trouble is you need to bring a niche build for that. Most power builds in current meta are bruiser oriented but if you have an ally FB supporting holosmith + thief then you might have a chance to burst down FB. FB is extremely anti-condi so bringing burst condi builds to teamfight may not be the best idea.

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I'd say something along the following would be the best strategy.

  1. Have to burn the FB's SYG with some kind of general pressure. If it's up they can get off any tome or any ability meaning they can Courage as soon as pressured. Your own Scourge, hybrid FB or something with cc that's tanky.
  2. Burst with high power (thief/war etc).
  3. Have your Scourge corrupt the FB's elite mantra so they can't tome.
  4. If they CoP fear immediately and you pretty much always interrupt ToC

That's probably the best/easiest strategy I can think of. Keeping ToC down is the best way to trash a FB as lore isn't enough to cleanse huge condi stacks.

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@Jax.5261 said:I'd say something along the following would be the best strategy.

  1. Have to burn the FB's SYG with some kind of general pressure. If it's up they can get off any tome or any ability meaning they can Courage as soon as pressured. Your own Scourge, hybrid FB or something with cc that's tanky.
  2. Burst with high power (thief/war etc).
  3. Have your Scourge corrupt the FB's elite mantra so they can't tome.
  4. If they CoP fear immediately and you pretty much always interrupt ToC

That's probably the best/easiest strategy I can think of. Keeping ToC down is the best way to trash a FB as lore isn't enough to cleanse huge condi stacks.

well that requires multiple players working together. which is fine for ATs, but outside of ATs- it’s a big ask.

remember only players under 1600 rating are allowed to be on voice coms together. so either you’re sub-1600 & coordinated (which won’t last if you improve as a player lol), or you have to psychically coordinate bursts, cc’s & corruptions between multiple players with no voice chat. doesn’t seem like the easiest thing in the world to me tbh.

the suggestion to moa them is a better one, but it requires a specific class- & firebrand has a ton of aegis & blocks so it’s not going to be easy to land if the FB knows what he’s doing.

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Firebrand has a very obvious weak spot. It's the mobility that is what it lacks the most. I would rather advise not to engage into fights with scourge and his pocket healer on point, let them bunker it. But if one of them rotates, then let the one dude bunker the point and hunt the other down if your team has mobility. If both of them rotate to other points, its good to engage them there because you don't have to stand and hug the point (which is what scourge wants). You can make a scourge pop their stuff and walk out of it. It is also good to focus down firebrand when he/she travels from point to point, especially if alone. Even if they survive and manage to get to a point, they might be out of cooldowns.In the long run I would prioritize the scourge first and later firebrand, but do not ignore the healer. It is unheard of but I think there will be a need for focus-dancing. By that I mean changing focus mid fight to interrupt the second top target be it either scourge or firebrand. It's hard to do with pugs, but I've managed to pull this off a few times. If you fight in a sustained manner with one target and then change all focus in one second to drop all the heaviest bursts, the other target might not have the time to even react and we all know that guardians don't have passive inulnerability procs like engie has, so a well executed power burst will melt a fb before they can pull out a healing tome.This is why I would recommend at least 2 power dps to keep a constant pressure on firebrand with ocassional crowd control (hard and soft) on the scourge so that it doesn't go crazy with conditions. All that I described above would be best to try in a situation if both teams are equally skilled.

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