Official Mount Adoption Feedback Thread [merged] - Page 28 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Official Mount Adoption Feedback Thread [merged]

1252628303161

Comments

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 8, 2017

    @Shaaba.5672 said:

    @Rococo.8347 said:
    1. Ive been around the block, I was there for the Great Ascended Backlash, The Great HoT (rewards/meta/Item acquisition/difficulty) Backlash and the Veterans HoT Price Backlash, the latter was handled with swift rethink and positive action on Anets part, the former two not so much a couple of times with issues that layers are unhappy with we have been asked for feedback, then the htread has been shut down and then? ...nothing happens - I recall one thread on the old forum going for OVER A YEAR ( i wish I could remember which) and resulting in little to no change. If you are asking for feedback it needs to be acted on and it needs to be quickly, or at least a clear concise game plan of how long it will take to action.

    I think the one you're thinking of was the thread about traits. Basically that the system of unlocking them through specific events, etc was flawed.

    I'll aslo add another PR disaster to that list - changing the TP interface, specifically the gold to gem exchange rate. At that point the lowest amount of gems you could exchange for was 400. People were furious and vocal about this change. I believe the only thing that made them reverse their decision on that particular change was the PR from gaming magazines reporting on it. I'd like to think it was concern for the customers and listening to their feedback, but sadly it was pretty immediately reversed when it began to be reported on.

    So the Jim Sterling video was great. What I think we need to do is contact other gaming journalism sites to spread the word about how unhappy we are.

    Pretty much this. It's only when user complains migrate to gaming sites that Anet actually starts to care. Otherwise they are quite willing to kitten the users over.

    It's not like they didn't know that players don't like the rng boxes from gemshop - we've been telling them that for years already. They just don't care about bad publicity as long as it doesn't affect their image outside the game. Most probably they just think we'll all just complain a bit, and then get over it eventually.

    So, by all means, let's all take it to non-gw2 related sites.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • @RDarken.2495 said:
    I don't really get why people are suddenly outraged at this: This has been ANet's MO since launch (see: Black Lion Chests). I'll buy an outfit and I'll deal with in-game RNG, but I'm not paying for RNG.

    So, yeah, this is a stupid product and it was rolled out in a kitten way (especially given how lazy some of those skins are - imo), but just don't buy it. This isn't new.

    You're right @RDarken.2495, I believe this was their MO from the beginning. Which is why, unfortunately, we need to stop this before it gets worse. If you're wondering how it gets worse, check out Overwatch, Middle Earth: Shadow of War, Star Wars Battlefront II, or even Destiny.

    1 month ago I could sped 2000 gems (1600 on sale) for a pack of 5 Halloween-theme mount skins. Now they're trying to sell a single one for 2500. When you start offering players random chances at items in exchange for a guaranteed price, you make it too tempting to for companies lower drop rates and increase prices until they find the "sweet spot".

  • @Deihnyx.6318 said:
    The funny thing is that should the price have been shown in gold at a vendor, like typically: 150 gold for one RNG mount, people wouldn't have complained so hard. Why? Because the cost is shown in gold instead of gems... even though the conversion would be pretty similar.
    That might be Anet real mistake here, they didn't hide it behind ecto gambling or anything this time. And people got all salty for it.

    @Rawr.9467 said:
    Unfortunately you only need a few people to buy them. Boycotts don't work very well when you have whales that give in and purchase everything, further solidifying the benefits of this marketing model.

    This isn't specific to you, but in addition to constantly blaming one side of the problem, why not also discussing the other side? Aka people who never want to contribute helping finance the game they play everyday? Who won't ever spend one dollar on anything else than the core game, and still ask to get remunerated during stress tests (okay that was a very particular case)? People who, in this very thread, have no problem telling you $30/players every 2 year is enough to finance servers, employees, marketing, new content etc?

    It's shady, yes. RNG isn't ideal. But I can kind of understand how not getting steady numbers every month push companies to try as much as possible to secure money from the few users who can and are always willing to finance their game.

    That's why having a subscription fee would be infinitely better. Plus skins could get locked behind what actually matters, aka gaming, skill, etc. Players got what they deserved for massively rejecting monthly subscriptions in modern games.
    (And yes, it would hurt the portion of players not willing to help financing the game... but they don't matter economically anyway).

    (EDIT: Oh, also the guaranteed wardrobe are kinda worse already. You play the RNG game to even get them, then you play the RNG game to get a skin you'd like. Somehow this didn't cause all that fuss.)

    Just a couple points I would like to make here. The majority of the feedback I have seen takes no issue with them monetizing mount skins, I think most everyone assumed mount skins would be the new glider in terms of monetization on the gem store. The issue is the pure rng to get the skin you actually want to pay for. The wardrobe unlocks you mention didn't get the same hate as you note, i'm hypothesizing here, because almost all of those items are available via other methods. There is only one way to buy these skins.

    To your point on the subscription I don't agree that it would be better. Yes it would be cool if there were more items available in-game but there would really be no guarantee all of these skins would be made if on a sub model. In that regard it would be a catch 22 situation as well. As cool as in-game collection quests are those take time to build and I would imagine much more time than simply creating assets and putting them in the shop. As a player who spends a lot in the cash shop, I would have a hard time feeling inclined to pay a sub fee as there are always times when I can't put aside the disposable income. I would imagine there are many others who feel that way as well. I don't begrudge the "whales" for what they choose to spend their money on nor do I resent the very expensive bundle of all the mounts. If there was a way for players who only wanted a couple of specific mounts to get exactly that I can't imagine the whales or spenders still wouldn't be purchasing the bundles eitherway. The difference then would be that those players who would have spent twenty bucks getting the mounts they want spend very little if nothing on these mounts. I've seen a lot of players using the new mount skins, but that doesn't mean how this was handled was right. I respect Arenanet, much more than I do most gaming companies nowadays. I choose to believe that by expressing ourselves politely and constructively we might not be able to reverse this change, but I truly believe Anet will take this feedback under consideration in the future.

  • HI apprectiate that anet needs to make money to keep putting out content. However an exploitative RNG based system is not the way to go. They also look terrible with all the glowing dyes they have. I wont be returning to gw2 if mount skins stay the way they are now.

  • Long thread is long, but one more voice to the throng.
    If your purchase is a gamble, then your model is a shamble.
    So let us sit and think, what else might go in ink?
    The results of this action might form a bitter faction,
    who shout and cry 'They'll have no more!', and no more come knocking at Guild War's door.

  • edited November 8, 2017

    OK so I guess you'll see a lot of negativity given that people are in a bad rage feedback loop so even with good reasons to dislike it they reached rage levels that are totally disconnected from the actual issue. Also the fact that people who are unhappy are more likely to comment.

    I'd like to add some positivity, even though I'm not 100% OK with every aspect of the adoption system.

    I'm happy to have this, with so many new skins that are all nice while being somewhat close to base and an upgrade on it, which can justify having them in a common system with some rng to a certain point. I really like all those skins, also the fact that we have a big series of skins that are akin to the base ones (which I like a lot). I'm OK with the price of 400 each (or 320 for bundle!) and even with the rng as it's 100% win without duplicates. And as someone who like to have different skins for everything on my (numerous) characters, this is a great occasion to get a lot of skins for my alts.
    Imho it looks like the system was designed so people can buy kinda-cheap tickets and be rewarded with a guaranteed nice surprise skin. The design also works for people like me who wanted and will have a use for a lot of skins (bought the full bundle on 2 accounts!). Buuuut, a lot of people look at the preview, see ONE specific skin they want and ... that's where the system collapses, because it means full RNG (1/30) for them.

    So again, I do like all those skins, I do like the ability to buy the bundle, I do like the "surprise nice skin for cheap price" idea ... But there are a few things that are not that cool, some of those making it very bad for a big portion of the playerbase ... in a way that should have been forecasted (it was not this hard) to avoid a bad salt fest that may hurt the game. Here is a list of things that could have made it a lot better (some of them are still possible :) ) :

    • There should have been more directly available skins before introducing this, or at least at the same time (a "legendary" one at 2k gem doesn't count). This is because a lot of players were impatiently waiting for nice mount skins ... so they are disappointed when the first "serious" (non-Halloween) ones come in such a number and are behind a system that doesn't fit their needs. This disappointment lead to salt.
    • The bundle price is a bit too high. Of course it has a good price per skin but buying so many at once could be worth a discount of more than the usual 20%. More importantly, the maximum purchase of gems is 8k - which also coincides with an irl psychological limit ($100€). IHMO gemstore bundles, even huge ones like this, should have 8k as their maximum price tag. It doesn't feel right to have to buy gems twice for a single purchase, or to break that 8k/$100€ threshold.
    • The system could let you choose which type of mount you want to unlock. This way, people who want a specific skin have a worst case scenario of 1/6. And people who want 1 nice skin per mount can just spend 2k gems and be guaranteed to have one unlock per mount even if which ones is still RNG (ppl who were rdy to spend 2k gems this way do exist, I've read quite a few comments from them!)
  • ArenaNet, amazing timing.

    Not only are other countless companies, especially ones that are behind huge Triple A games being flamed for similar business practices, you decided to do the same MONTHS after the outrage began? Better late than ever, am I right? Good thing I quit not too long ago. It'll be fun watching this go down in flames, though.

  • Lunateric.3708Lunateric.3708 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 8, 2017

    Many people have stated my exact feelings about how the RNG gambling aspect of this mount skin implementation is predatory and uncharacteristic from a company I thought had customers and players in general in the highest regards. Somewhere in ANET offices you sat down and said "this is okay to implement" and that's extremely disappointing. You could have made slightly more expensive adoption tickets (600-800) that gave you a choice and it would have been fine, I want to support the game that has given me so much but I'm not gonna endorse the way you want to milk players. Some of these re-skins could have been ingame rewards so not only did you choose to sacrifice some of the playerbase but the quality of PoF rewards.

  • Weindrasi.3805Weindrasi.3805 Member ✭✭✭

    Personally, I like the mount adoption tickets, and I like that we get a mount at random. I think getting a surprise is fun. I spent 20 dollars for gems to unlock my first four. I figure, from this point onward, I'll just cash in gold for gems every now and then to unlock a new surprise mount.
    One thing that could be improved: Too many of the mounts look similar. The major difference with them is different dye channels--which is nice--but I want to see more variety in their physical shape.
    For instance, Jackal skins. I really love the Crowned Ancient and the Twin Sands, because the Jackal's body looks so different. The Crowned Ancient is much more buff, and the Twin Sands has the body of a husky. Similarly, the Desert Lop is a neat Springer because it has different ear and tail anatomy.
    I much prefer mounts like these, with shape and anatomy differences, over--say--a Banded Mystic Jackal--which uses the same old Jackal model with different dye regions.

  • I was mad at first. Yes, I would have preferred being able to purchase the mounts that I wanted, and then never look back. After I eventually failed to convince myself that I have an extra $240 laying around to get all the mounts (and therefore the 5 or 6 that I really wanted) for myself and my wife, I had to devise a new plan: gold to gem conversion, as I am able.

    I don’t usually sit on loads of gold, but when I recently finished Aurora, I went on a mad selling spree through my bank, and ended up with more gold than I needed. So I was able to buy 8 mounts, 4 each for myself and my wife. Of those 8, maybe 3 were skins that I would have never looked at twice. But once I got playing around with the dye channels, I realized that those specific mounts still look amazing, are thematically appropriate for one or more of our combined 84 toons, and I’m really glad that I have them! And I’m super excited to grind out the gold to get the next one, which will go to my wife, and the next one, that will go to me! And guess what, the others are super rad also! I got twin sands, and my wife got the frozen bunny. Super cool!

    At first I was angry and super jealous that a bunch of people who dropped $120 were running around with the fiery griffon. But now they just psyche me out for when I eventually get my fiery griffon. And I’m glad that some people have more dollars than sense, allowing Anet to continue developing this amazing game.

    I hope people eventually come around like this. Just because you probably won’t get the mount you want RIGHT NOW, doesn’t mean that you won’t get it eventually, and doesn’t mean that the one you got this week or this month is totally worthless. Own it. Enjoy it. Make it yours, at least in the mean time. I, personally, like having something to work towards. And I like that not EVERYBODY is running around on a fiery griffon.

  • The idea of having new mount skins is basically wonderful. So far, so good.
    I totally understand Arenanet has to make money, to pay all the devs creating content for the Guild Wars Universe.
    The price for one mount skin is also basically fine. But why the has to be a RNG factor there? That's just kitten. It's obviously milking the cashcow...
    Remove the RNG component and it would be totally fine.....
    The next horrible implementantions is the forged warhound mount skin. The skin is superb. But, 2000 gems, really??? 5 more € and you could buy the standard version of PoF. 1200 gems would have been a fair and fine price.... making 15€.....

    Dear Arenanet, i love this game. I know, all this is optional. But all these factors destroy my game experience. The fact, that you are implementing more and more gemstore stuff feels kinda sad, because we dont get an equivalent on PVE side...

    In a game like GW2, where the progress of items was replaced with skins (Fashion Wars 2) it feels super super bad getting more and more milked with each item shop update....especially with RNG.....

    Personally, i will NOT support this!

    Each time a new Living World Episode appeard, I purchased gems for 25€ in order to celebrate and giving you something back for your great work.
    But all this Gemshop development is a pain in the ###

  • Rococo.8347Rococo.8347 Member ✭✭✭

    @Shaaba.5672 said:

    @Rococo.8347 said:
    1. Ive been around the block, I was there for the Great Ascended Backlash, The Great HoT (rewards/meta/Item acquisition/difficulty) Backlash and the Veterans HoT Price Backlash, the latter was handled with swift rethink and positive action on Anets part, the former two not so much a couple of times with issues that layers are unhappy with we have been asked for feedback, then the htread has been shut down and then? ...nothing happens - I recall one thread on the old forum going for OVER A YEAR ( i wish I could remember which) and resulting in little to no change. If you are asking for feedback it needs to be acted on and it needs to be quickly, or at least a clear concise game plan of how long it will take to action.

    I think the one you're thinking of was the thread about traits. Basically that the system of unlocking them through specific events, etc was flawed.

    I'll aslo add another PR disaster to that list - changing the TP interface, specifically the gold to gem exchange rate. At that point the lowest amount of gems you could exchange for was 400. People were furious and vocal about this change. I believe the only thing that made them reverse their decision on that particular change was the PR from gaming magazines reporting on it. I'd like to think it was concern for the customers and listening to their feedback, but sadly it was pretty immediately reversed when it began to be reported on.

    So the Jim Sterling video was great. What I think we need to do is contact other gaming journalism sites to spread the word about how unhappy we are.

    Yes I think that was it! good catch on the TP interface one as well - they need to get some poor intern to turn all these terrible gaming decisions and 'handling' of backlash and powerpoint that kitten up.

    Lock them all in a room and don't let them out until its drummed in - introducing a idea/system that you KNOW will receive massive backlash in a sneaky attempt at hoping it will die down and not get picked up by gaming sites, then scrambling and offering a very beige peace offering and not really changing anything whilst you continue to build up similar grifts in the background isn't good business.

    Then let them out for a quick break and lock them back in until they come up with a genuine bottom up ( not papering over) solution.

    On the Jim Sterling video - EVERYONE if you are feeling annoyed go over and watch this vid, its scorched earth hilarity.

  • I think there needs to be a more stable way to get mount skins before introducing lootboxes. Since PoF, the only way to obtained mount skins is from holiday specials, and this lootbox nonsense. Both of them are only temporary too.

    The warforge skin is beautiful, but the 2k gem price point doesn't make sense in comparison to what a player can buy with the same 2k. Even though the skin probably took some time and effort, it's not worth it from a players perspective - for 2k gems, I can get multiple convenience items that would improve gameplay, or buy multiple skins to make my toon fabulous. The 2k gem price would be more worth it if it was bundled with some other items: dye kits, repair canisters, pretty much the filler items in bl chests. I only use the jackel mount in niche situations too, and mainly use the raptor mount since it's faster. I can't justify buying that skin for a mount that is seen on occasion, and I'm not willing to move slower to show it off.

    Personally, it would be great if we could get at least one set of mount skins obtainable through gameplay - make a legendary mount skin or something, kinda like how Ad Infinitum is an in game obtainable gilder. Then, have some permanent mounts skins rotate in the gemstore. Maybe something like 600 gems for a simple mount design, 700 for a medium mount design, 800 for hard mount design, and 1000-1200 for a warforge type skin. After a stable rotation of mounts skins, add the lootbox back with the 400gem per roll, since even though players can't pick the skins, the price point would still make it worth it, or put something like the bl chest exclusive items for more incentive to roll.

    Pretty much give players more reasonable options to get mount skins. Not temporary bundles, an overpriced skin, and a no choice no freedom dice roll.

  • it seims i am ok with mounts ting only ting i didnt like it RNG wall. But i am ok with it becous after all where play free2play game and the need to get there soom where just there money only ting i hope the chance Rng to select ur one skin
    p.s
    can u nerf druid now to op might stacking

  • Noone wants RNG in the gemshop. I don't want to gamble with my (real) money on ingame skins. If some people prefer gambling after all, then by all means keep it BUT ALSO OFFER INDIVIDUAL SKINS directly...

  • This is probably the most disappointed I have been with you guys and I hate saying that. This is very predatory, since so much of end game content in this game is based off of cosmetics. Like fine, keep the randomized version of the Skin, I had no problem with dyes since it wasn't a bad price for the purchase and ones I didn't want I can give to friends or sell on the TP. I am fairly certain I can't do this with these mount skins and thats unacceptable, like if I have to pay extra (like 150 gems extra) to get the few skins I want, I'll do it. But otherwise Anet? This is definitely not what I expected from you guys.

    You have the BL chests and dyes as rng loot, do you really need more? Like $120 for all 30? So that is around $4 per mount, not a bad things, but why can't I pay like $10 (800 gems) pick the two mount skins I want, and when i get more money I can buy more? I just want the option to choose what I want.

  • Deihnyx.6318Deihnyx.6318 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 8, 2017

    @Tuskeh.4697 said:
    For instance, I recently got a Tequatl's Hoard chest from the World Boss in Sparkfly Fen, which contains the player's choice of one ascended weapon from a selection. These weapons are the highest-tier items in the game. I was ecstatic, leafing through my options like a kid in a candy store. I had an incentive (kill the big dragon knowing that I had a chance to get some cool stuff), a challenge (kill the big dragon with an army of other players), and a reward (big dragon falls into the water, chest of cool stuff). There was an element of randomization here in what loot I got, but once the loot was acquired, the reward was in my hands, and I could define what that reward could be with the weapon selection.

    I'm willing to consider siding with people against the mount adoption RNG here but only if they criticize all forms of RNG, and not just specific to gem related RNG. Either all RNG is bad or it's not, and skins that are ONLY available through RNG means should be considered bad as well.
    I am much more shocked at practices that gate some content like that, which is RNG AND Timegated AND Account Bound than a few mount skins that have no timegate and very "limited" RNG, and that you can simply farm gold to gems.
    Again, if the mount adoption licenses were in gold and sold to an in game merchant not half of the people here would complain, even though it's the exact same problem.

    Same with ecto gambling, it is RNG. It involves real money (it's just hidden being a gold amount, but it's basically the same), but people aren't complaining as much, even though it's been in game forever.

    Why are people waking up just now? Because they really, really want these skins (unlike BL weapons), and not because there's anything new with how Anet does things.

  • Oglaf.1074Oglaf.1074 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 8, 2017

    @Deihnyx.6318 said:

    @Tuskeh.4697 said:
    For instance, I recently got a Tequatl's Hoard chest from the World Boss in Sparkfly Fen, which contains the player's choice of one ascended weapon from a selection. These weapons are the highest-tier items in the game. I was ecstatic, leafing through my options like a kid in a candy store. I had an incentive (kill the big dragon knowing that I had a chance to get some cool stuff), a challenge (kill the big dragon with an army of other players), and a reward (big dragon falls into the water, chest of cool stuff). There was an element of randomization here in what loot I got, but once the loot was acquired, the reward was in my hands, and I could define what that reward could be with the weapon selection.

    I'm willing to consider siding with people against the mount adoption RNG here but only if they criticize all forms of RNG, and not just specific to gem related RNG. Either all RNG is bad or it's not, and skins that are ONLY available through RNG means should be considered bad as well.
    I am much more shocked at practices that gate some content like that, which is RNG AND Timegated AND Account Bound than a few mount skins that have no timegate and very "limited" RNG, and that you can simply farm gold to gems.
    Again, if the mount adoption licenses were in gold and sold to an in game merchant not half of the people here would complain, even though it's the exact same problem.

    Same with ecto gambling, it is RNG. It involves real money (it's just hidden being a gold amount, but it's basically the same), but people aren't complaining as much, even though it's been in game forever.

    Why are people waking up just now? Because they really, really want these skins (unlike BL weapons), and not because there's anything new with how Anet does things.

    That is a silly sentiment/standard to have. RNG is a perfectly fine design tool/method to have for a video game.

    RNG is not some inherent evil. If you cannot see the difference between "gambling with ILR money"-RNG and "in-game loot"-RNG and how one is just terrible whereas the other is a gameplay necessity... then... I dunno.

    I honestly don't fathom not being able to tell how they are obviously different. It boggles my mind.

    Please Anet give us a hide Chest Armour-option. Tattoo-clad Norns everywhere beg of you.

  • @Turk.5460 said:
    If this is more profitable than players individually buying skins, then I hope anet doesn't give in here and change it. Many posters here make it seem like they think they are entitled to easy access of the purely cosmetic items they want, not stopping to think that this is a free to play game. The company needs funds to continue to provide us with a free to play game.

    If this proves more profitable, then I hope they continue with this type of practice for future neat items.

    I would respectfully point out that this is not a free to play game, it is a buy to play title. You can access the core game with greatly reduced features for free but I don't know a single person who plays only the core game and hasn't upgraded to HoT and now to PoF. I wouldn't classify being able to buy what you want "easy access" nor have I seen. Whether or not cosmetic matter to you personally, they are a big deal to a lot of players. Most games are made or broken on their art style and I would argue that includes character customization. Honestly if they're looking for better funding, I'd rather they sell us living world season passes (provided they are on the level of quality as last season) before selling us random skins. I am very grateful for what they try to provide and as a result I spend in the gemstore whenever possible. Whether or not they need funding doesn't mean that I should have less options as the consumer. In a perfect world, the fix I'd like to see is to reduce the cost of the rng mounts, and sell mounts of your choice for 500 gems as well as bundles similar to the halloween set for the 1600 gems. At the bare minimum I'd at least like the ability to choice what type of mount that i'm randomly given. That would solve the issue for those who have yet to unlock the griffin and at least give us some control over the blind box method of mount sales.

  • Shaaba.5672Shaaba.5672 Member ✭✭✭

    Saw this story in PCGames. Hope it gets picked up by more sites.

  • This game stopped being amazing when the development staff sat down and said "ok, lets rake these people for whatever cash we can get". The moment you decided it was ok to prey on your players for money like this was the moment you lost me as a paying customer. I will not buy a single gem from you again until such time you reverse this policy of preying on peoples problems and/or addictions... I am ashamed of you... and ashamed for you... Such a disappointment....

  • Zaklex.6308Zaklex.6308 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Miss Lana.5276 said:

    @Zaklex.6308 said:
    2.
    take risky action in the hope of a desired result.

    You defined exactly what it is. Cheers for that.

    Wrong, you are risking absolutely NOTHING, there is no RISK involved, since you think it is:
    noun
    1.
    a situation involving exposure to danger.
    "flouting the law was too much of a risk"
    verb
    1.
    expose (someone or something valued) to danger, harm, or loss.
    No danger, no harm, no loss...therefore no RISK.
    If you say you lost gems, you didn't, because you still got a skin(whether it's one you wanted or not is immaterial).

    Yes...no...maybe...what do you want, can't you see I'm busy saving the world...AGAIN!

  • Deihnyx.6318Deihnyx.6318 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 8, 2017

    @Oglaf.1074 said:

    @Deihnyx.6318 said:

    @Tuskeh.4697 said:
    For instance, I recently got a Tequatl's Hoard chest from the World Boss in Sparkfly Fen, which contains the player's choice of one ascended weapon from a selection. These weapons are the highest-tier items in the game. I was ecstatic, leafing through my options like a kid in a candy store. I had an incentive (kill the big dragon knowing that I had a chance to get some cool stuff), a challenge (kill the big dragon with an army of other players), and a reward (big dragon falls into the water, chest of cool stuff). There was an element of randomization here in what loot I got, but once the loot was acquired, the reward was in my hands, and I could define what that reward could be with the weapon selection.

    I'm willing to consider siding with people against the mount adoption RNG here but only if they criticize all forms of RNG, and not just specific to gem related RNG. Either all RNG is bad or it's not, and skins that are ONLY available through RNG means should be considered bad as well.
    I am much more shocked at practices that gate some content like that, which is RNG AND Timegated AND Account Bound than a few mount skins that have no timegate and very "limited" RNG, and that you can simply farm gold to gems.
    Again, if the mount adoption licenses were in gold and sold to an in game merchant not half of the people here would complain, even though it's the exact same problem.

    Same with ecto gambling, it is RNG. It involves real money (it's just hidden being a gold amount, but it's basically the same), but people aren't complaining as much, even though it's been in game forever.

    Why are people waking up just now? Because they really, really want these skins (unlike BL weapons), and not because there's anything new with how Anet does things.

    That is a silly sentiment/standard to have. RNG is a perfectly fine design tool/method to have for a video game.

    If you cannot see the difference between gambling with ILR money-RNG and in-game loot-based RNG then... I dunno.

    I honestly don't fathom not being able to tell how they are obviously different.

    That's your mistake. As I said, lots of RNG content in this game has a value, either in mats or gold (ecto gambling), which... can be paid with IRL money.
    Just like you can get these RNG skins with GOLD instead of IRL money.

    Somehow one is okay, and not the other.

    Oh and no, timegated + RNG + account bound is not a fine design, at all. It's purely made to make you grind countless days for a hope to get the skin, with no way of slowing working towards it or buying through TP.
    Time is money. And yes you can always say "then don't do it", but I could just answer "then don't buy it".

    Exact same problem.

  • Ironically, I much prefer the Mount Stable boxes over the "can only get in Black Lion Chest, maybe" items (at least with the Mount Stable, one does get a skin--unfortunately the gross mistake in presenting this to your customers has been what skin they do get is random. Folks do not like random.)

    Then there's the latest Wild Magic Glider/Backpack, for instance. Especially after using 45 keys and not getting it, truthfully I'm fairly babymad about it. :p I deeply resent not being able to just buy stuff outright with Gems. I think the whole general consensus that the "can only get in Black Lion Chest, maybe" super sucks because those items are normally obtainable by just buying them directly from the Gem Store--gliders, weapon skins, and outfits, for instance--so them being stuffed into a BLC is a really frustrating and unwelcome way to obtain them. The Permanent Contracts, on the other hand, are only obtainable via the Black Lion Chests, so its generally expected that's the only way to get them.

    And silly me, I purchase quite a number of Black Lion Keys when they were on sale a few months ago. After it taking 90 keys to get the Jackal Pup and still not getting the Wild Magic Glider/Backpack after opening 45 boxes, I will never, ever purchase Black Lion Keys again. You know that old adage, "Fool me once..."

    ANet, if you want to--yet again--rise above all other MMO developers with the way you present various aspects of your game, please consider, seriously consider, rethinking how you present items in the Gem Store. It really is not okay to have a number of Gem Store items stuffed into gambling boxes--not when your customers are infinitely more inclined to just outright buy an item instead of gambling for it.

    Now, admittedly, I have never converted gold to Gems. Yes, I am one of those notorious 'whales' everyone is lamenting about. There is a tremendous reality that we all have to consider when it comes to items in the Gem Store: how many Gems (purchased with real money) VS Gems (converted from gold) are being used to purchase all these shinies from the Gem Store? You know, that may very well be why some of these items we want are stuffed behind gambling boxes--so many Gems being spent are converted from gold instead of real money nowadays--they gotta make things more expensive (via outright cost or stuffed behind gambling boxes) to make up for that (read this thread, for instance... https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/7bkijr/7_years_of_anet_ingame_shop_cosmetics/ ...it discusses how costs of Gem Store items have risen over the years.) As a game ages, more in-game money is earned/stockpiled by its players. The general population of the game has a lot more in-game money now than it did during the first few years of the game.

    Anyways, bottom line: I want all the shinies. Let me be able to buy them outright. Please. :)

  • Oglaf.1074Oglaf.1074 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Danikat.8537 said:
    A possible compromise I saw on Twitter and liked:

    Keep the RNG option as it is but add a 600-800 gem Adoption Licence which lets you choose the skin you want. That way people who want to gamble still have the chance to get a lucky (cheap) drop, but people who only want a few specific skins or are otherwise unwilling to gamble can get them directly.

    Problem with that is that the majority of the mount skins aren't really worth more than 400 Gems as they are pure retextures.

    I'd argue that a 400 Gems for those, and 600 Gems for the fancier ones with new model and/or sfx would be a much fairer deal.

    Please Anet give us a hide Chest Armour-option. Tattoo-clad Norns everywhere beg of you.

  • I have been struggling to log in for the last couple months. I have lost all desire to play but I always enjoyed the anticipation of being able to purchase the seasonal and story tied skins. Some I liked and some I refuse to purchase due to a bad case of the 'uglies'.

    I was looking forward to skins for the mounts but this costly and random option of acquiring them is, in my opinion, a horrible idea. As much as I would like some or all of the new mount skins, I will be refusing to purchase them. Not because they are ugly but because I prefer to purchase only the skins I wish to have and not gamble with random boxes that may give me nothing I want. I have no desire to waste money, in game gold or real life money, on a random chance.

    I am very disappointed that ArenaNet decided to market the mount skins in this manner. Please rethink this gambling adoption farce and make the skins available in the Black Lion. Thank you.

  • @Shadowhearth.4803 said:
    idc for the whole new skins in the shop being RNG but what i am sad about is that there is no skins for non gem players hiding all these skins behind a pay wall is really bad other mmos have mounts in their games which can be obtain via achievements , quests, crafting or even drops why cant we get this as well?

    For the same reasons they put outfits in the gemstore, severely limited the rate you could farm BLC keys in game, and made getting your own small 1/2 person guild to make storage easier on you almost impossible now. They want you to buy things from the BLTP for real money and don't care if the practices they are enacting are predatory.

    For everyone saying the term "testing the waters" that's like saying a doctor today is still testing to see if the Polio vaccine is effective at stopping Polio. This has been tested time and again in other games and MMOs in particular. The affects of these things on people with addictive personalities has been studied extensively. This was a business decision made on greed and not on what was best for the players and ironically for the company.

    They had a chance for a real win here. They could have offered up the extra dye channel mount skins for 400 a pop and the "cooler" ones for 800 a pop and I'm sure MANY people (myself included) would have probably dropped some real money on numerous ones. Instead they chose this RNG BS making it so many of us are just refusing to entertain any skins now, ever and worse some of these people are new players that are being put off from the game completely soon after the release of this expansion.

    Sure hope those whales have fat enough wallets for you Anet.

    Greck Howlbane - Firebrand
    Sorrow's Furnace For Life

  • @Wizler.8192 said:

    @Myrdreth.6829 said:
    What happens if you already got a certain skin and get it again?

    "Every license guarantees the successful adoption of a unique breed, so it’s easy to make room in your heart for all of them."

    My take on this statement from ArenaNet is you won't get duplicates.

    You won't get any duplicates, but you may get skins for a mount don't even own which is even worse!!

    Both the Jackal and Griffon are not needed to complete PoF yet you may unlock one of those skins and not even be able to use it. Think about that as well.

  • Disappointments pretty much covers it. Recently there's been a long string of bad press on company wanting to squeeze all the money they can from gamers via practice like lootbox, and when I see those videos or discussions I thought about how Anet does it with the BL chests and while BL chests are a long practice, how Anet's business philosophy isn't purely about cash-grabbing as companies like EA or Ubisoft or Activation.

    But with this RNG of 30 skin, it really feels like Anet too jumped on the lootbox/gambling/RNG wagon. I really thought better of you guys.

  • Stop putting skins behind rng, let me buy the stuff that I want. Additionally: offer some good skins to be obtainable with quests/achievements ingame as well, so you can earn something that can't be bought with money/gold. Simple as that.

  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Thanks anet for saving me all the money that I would have normally spent on mount skins. Sure you got your whales right off but they would have bought anything at any price ..... now how much money will you lose in the long run?

    New to the game? Feel free to give a yell if you need PVE help.

  • Kalibri.5861Kalibri.5861 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zaklex.6308 said:
    No danger, no harm, no loss...therefore no RISK.** If you say you lost gems, you didn't, because you still got a skin(whether it's one you wanted or not is immaterial).

    Incorrect. If you get something that has no value to you (a skin you did not want and will not use) you have risked your time, effort, and money and lost.

  • i dont think gambling for mount skins is directly bad. i just think putting 30 out, with not a single option to get one through events/quests/achievments to really play for is bad. pof really has a weak endgame and no reason to play it after story and some collections (that are kinda unfun anyway with 100g+ exotics each). i rather want more achievments or reasons to play besides farming in hot. i also dont like the direction this takes, first with the balthasar outfit only accessible through blc gambling. if keys would be less expencive or easier to get or an alternate way to get it would be good. maybe a ticket system, like 1 ticket per box and with like idk 15 tickets you can choose an uncommen reward so you can get the outfit or bag skin either way. also would like to either have bundles of some sort for the skins or a way to get certain skins, i get it that there are some "basic" skins and some "high effect super nice ones" but 5 bucks for a chance is quite expencive, esp for some that are just lazy remodels with bigger spikes/horns or something. these easily could be implemented as ingame reward for quests or something. some skins do look too much like legendaries, esp. the stardust/galaxy ones. they could be implemented as sort of achievment or something.

  • Randomness in a paid feature akin to lootboxes is a fast way to drive me away from a game. Rethink this.

  • Ok guys really, look at the mount skins which came out now. They are not creative. They are just reskins. I dont have anything about reskins. They can look cool. But on the other hand every Mount thats in the gambling box has an overall look of an allredy released weapon or armor or outfit skin. It cant be much of a work they had implemented for thouse skins. They had maybe just 1 dev working on thouse new skins. And he prssed just a few buttons to mix few skins together. I have nothing against it. I can implement thouse new mount skins into my other skins. But after all when they hide everything behind RNG boxes. Thats even more outraging.

  • Yay more Loot Boxes Just what gaming needed... GW2 has always been one of the few games i can point at and say They got it mostly right with your cash shop But not today.

    Like it or not For some players cosmetics are a huge part of their game And Guild Wars 2 has often been nick named Fashion wars 2 for a reason and we all love how easy it is to customize and personalize your characters. I heard about this on you tube and I just had to join this and say That i am tired.. I am tired of seeing loot boxes in every game I am tired of the outrage and frustration when i see it So for this I am very disappointed Anet.. I have stuck with you for years Defended you from friends who have long since quit for various reasons and today I'm just Disappointed and sad that you are moving down the same road as other Greedy companies just a little deeper.

  • @Turk.5460 said:
    If this is more profitable than players individually buying skins, then I hope anet doesn't give in here and change it. Many posters here make it seem like they think they are entitled to easy access of the purely cosmetic items they want, not stopping to think that this is a free to play game. The company needs funds to continue to provide us with a free to play game.

    If this proves more profitable, then I hope they continue with this type of practice for future neat items.

    That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever read.

    People are saying (repeatedly I might add) that they are willing to throw money at Anet if they were able to buy the thing they wanted, and because of the RNG they are literally refusing to drop ANY money now, or in the future.

    Let's be clear: That means NO money to Anet because they tried to do a money grab hoping people would gamble to get the skin they wanted instead of just selling the skins and letting people decide what they wanted.

    So, by continuing with your line of thought:
    Anet needs money to keep running so the next xpac they should sell it in 15 dollar packs. Some people MIGHT get most of it on one payment, but it could take 6 payments to get the whole xpac in one go and if you just want the whole thing without RNG just pay 65 dollars in the first week before it launches and call it a day. Its fair, not a gamble and they need the money right? Totally fair right? No, of course not. Thats ridiculous, and so is the RNG for these mounts. What next? Outfit loot box? Why bother letting people choose outfits for their toons anymore right? Its just cosmetic.

    SMDH

    Greck Howlbane - Firebrand
    Sorrow's Furnace For Life

  • Spent real cash to get two skins I like, got none of them. Can I get more gems to try again? Yes. But thinking about the total spent 10k gems for any one of them is complete rip off. Probably stay away from spending again on this game for a while. D:

  • mac.9645mac.9645 Member
    edited November 8, 2017

    Hereby vowing to never spend another dollar on this game. You all are shameless and do not deserve my money. GW2 is the game it is because of its community, and the developers see no problem exploiting them via underhanded business practices. They do not deserve us. Good luck next quarterly!

  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Todd.6573 said:

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:
    There are a lot of conversations about the mount adoption option that was released today. Many of the comments in the individual threads repeat ones made by the same person in another thread. We very much want to hear your feedback, but have found that a single feedback thread offers the best opportunity for you to share your thoughts and for us to review it in the context of a wider set of feedback.

    So here's a thread into which you're invited to post your thoughts on the subject of the Black Lion Stables Mount Skins.

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

    Here's a thought, how do you justify having an expansion that most would say lack rewarding content, and then, a month after release, you throw in a patch adding 31 mounts and various other skins, all behind paywalls, but NOT A SINGLE one added as base content.
    Seriously?
    You're heading down a slippery slope real fast, and even people like me who don't mind spending some cash in games are getting worried...

    Exactly, does anyone honestly think these 31 skins were designed recently? I am guessing some were being designed while POF was being worked on. What content did we not get in POF because resources were not available to work on this?

    New to the game? Feel free to give a yell if you need PVE help.

  • The integrity of the game is gone, obnoxious korean-mmo looking mounts for 120$? this is the kitten that set guild wars apart, and kept the playerbase proud and superior.

    on top of that, if you have been playing PoF since launch, and decide to buy the mount skins now, there is NOTHING to do with them; all of the content you are doing is either instanced or repetitive kitten you have been doing for the past years.

    make the mount skins have class, not just vomit blobs of effects

    let them be individually purchased, no RNG nonsense

    price them whatever you want to compensate lack of funds you get from exploiting whale gambling addicts.

    add some skins to the game so we actually have things to do and work for.

  • @DorDor.8617 said:
    Welp, it looks like Jim Stirling is gonna cover this Mount Skin thing. And knowing him, he won't be saying anything nice: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/7bm3z0/a_storm_is_brewing/

    he's already done with covering it

  • @UrMom.4205 said:
    The rng is trash. Stop with this. What you should have done, is take the low end skins from the 30 and add them in game as possible event rewards, collections, quests, whatever. Then just sell the flashy ones for a flat price of gems....but not 2k gems like that other new skin. 2k gems for one new skin, that's literally almost the price of the expansion. That's just absurd.

    Anet doesn't care about content replayability as this kind of suggestion has been made time and time again on the forums since the game launched. Its not like they don't know its something players want. THEY just want the money and unfortunately with dwindling player base and lower quarterly numbers they are scrambling for any way to bleed a rock.

    Greck Howlbane - Firebrand
    Sorrow's Furnace For Life

  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nile.5614 said:
    Here's the real way to "fix" this, or at least make it less of a sting to people that don't want a large pool chance.
    Because I doubt the RNG aspect is going to be removed, it's just kinda how these things work nowadays.
    Why aren't these being treated like gemstore dye kits?

    1. Purchase a Mount Adoption License.
    2. Double-click to use the item once purchased.
    3. Select from a prompt window of what type of mount you'd rather adopt: Raptor, Springer, Skimmer, Jackal, Griffon.
    4. Now the RNG is restricted to only ONE type of mount.
    5. This makes targeting easier. This makes people happier with the concept. It makes it less painful and less obviously exploitative.

    EDIT:
    And one more thing. The "natural" mount skins should be just obtainable in game. The special ones, like Pyroclast for the Jackal or any of the "magical" ones? Those probably can stay where they are.

    There would still be problems but it would solve a biggie. Right now this can 'give' you a skin for a mount you did not have. So if you never intend to get the griffon but unlock a griffon skin that is 400 gems up in smoke.

    New to the game? Feel free to give a yell if you need PVE help.

  • I would honestly buy some of these if you could simply pick the ones you want. However, since they're hidden behind this kind of system, I will not be getting a single one. It's quite disappointing to see a dev I actually have a lot of respect for go further down this road (the elemental sword thing was annoying, but at least you could buy the selection box in game later on).

    Also, why not put at least a few of these in the game as really long term rewards. Some of those skins compete with legendaries and it would have been really cool to put them into PoF as super longer term goals. I know that the lack of those types of rewards seems to be the number one complaint of an otherwise fantastic expansion, so if you followed both of these things, you'd be solving two issues.

    I really hope you change how this is implemented. I'd love to buy some of these since it's clear the creators have put in a lot of work on many of them. Please rethink this. You're better than this.

  • RNG here is too much. At least let us choose which mount to pick from. Also Starbound Griffon should really come from legendary achievement or crafting, would mean much more for such an incredible skin.

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.