Unhindered combattant and cripple

Here is the issue : how making my own "grandmaster" trait buffing my ennemy cripple effect good for the played class in the long term, making a no go choice trait ? Being cripple while using this trait get my endurance regen reduced for 100% during 4seconds. The idea was not so bad but the implementation was poorly executed. The right choice would have been to buff cripple condition effect giving the attribute to negate endurance regeneration by 100% during the time of the cripple effect. Therefore, every skills with condition cripple would reduce endurance regen by 100% in its own attribute whatever target is and whoever cast it. Please change this and give us back unhindered combattant original trait and buff EVERYONE cripple by adding an attribute of endurance regeneration debuff of 100% by the duration of the cripple on the affected target. This is my constructive analysis. TY Anet.

But it would be indirect nerf to other classes that are affected by cripple. Anet just wanted to delete thieves from competitive environment.

It was a broken trait to begin with, now it adds a skill factor to allow some actual counterplay against daredevils instead of blowing your evades om cripple use them on immob or chill, also dd has endurance refill on heal as well as endurance refill plus cleanse on a signet you have more than enough evades to break out of a pinch just lost the ability to perma evade with vigor

Spamming evades doesn't equal skill, this change should have been made loooong time ago (as more are needed to bring this class in line)Can't have everything: HUGE burst, teleports, evade SPAM, mobility, stealth, no cooldowns & ability to reset combat indefinitely until your opponent has blown off all his cooldowns & is left just standing in the open (which let's be honest isn't making the game particularly fun).

Also nobody forces thieves to play full zerker gear - you can always use some toughness/vitality combo like most other classes in wvw do.

Personally I think just immobilize would work, currently there are a lot of builds with random cripple that just make the trait a total nightmare.

Oh and btw if anyone's interested there's also sigil of incapacitation which I had on my weapon for fun reason and it now works wonders against thief :P

Long overdue nerf, was someone killing a raid boss with the build? :3

oh well anyway there is already a better alternative using bounding dodger for more dps burst & more stealth combo with gun smoke xD (and without endurance debuf at least the fights will last even shorter now with next optimal build)

@Titan.3472 said:oh well anyway there is already a better alternative using bounding dodger for more dps burst xD (and without endurance debuff)

The important thing is that it finally adds some counter play to daredevils. Nothing more annoying then trying to land a damn hit on a target that spams dodges, evades, shadow steps, stealth, while having perma vigor and then runs away and resets if you are lucky enough to land a stun because soft cc's were useless.

Unhindered was used for mobility but its nerf will push players to switch to bounding dodger, instead of runaway dodge it will be dodge smoke stealth & +10% damage lol ^^

Thing with bounding dodger is you have to be careful about immobilize, be sure to use short bow 3 if you get caught in bad situations.

@Titan.3472 said:Unhindered was used for mobility but its nerf will push players to switch to bounding dodger, instead of runaway dodge it will be dodge smoke stealth & +10% damage lol ^^

Not the point, its about counter play. You just wont be able to spam dodges and ignore soft cc's which will leave thief vulnerable to getting caught. Bandits defense was also nerfed. High risk/high reward class.

@Sasajoe.1509 said:Spamming evades doesn't equal skill, this change should have been made loooong time ago (as more are needed to bring this class in line)Can't have everything: HUGE burst, teleports, evade SPAM, mobility, stealth, no cooldowns & ability to reset combat indefinitely until your opponent has blown off all his cooldowns & is left just standing in the open (which let's be honest isn't making the game particularly fun).

Also nobody forces thieves to play full zerker gear - you can always use some toughness/vitality combo like most other classes in wvw do.

But spamming overloaded skills on low CD and riding passives like other classes do equals skill? UC wouldn't be needed on first place of the powercreep wasn't so insanse (since HoT). Why does only thief gets locked out of AA by own spells? Why does only thief gets their Grandmaster Trait deleted because lets face it game is flooded with chill/cripple/immobs on top of trillion aoes? Why do not other classes get same treatment? Why for example is warrior not locked out of their AA if they miss their burst skill? Or mes locked out of AA if not all their clones hit target on shatter? Why not increase CD on defensive skills on warrior if they have resistance applied to them? That would be equal treatment.

I find it ironic that you say everything: do thieves have invuls? No. Do thieves have high HP pool? No. Do thieves have reliable access to protection/resistance/retal etc.? No. Do thieves have high healing capacity? No. Do thieves have great team support? No. Do thieves have big amount of meaningful AoE? No. The huge burst you talk about happens when all stars align and is only single target damage for most part. Shall we look at other classes that can do way more, have been declared too strong/OP by entire community and yet didn't see nowhere near the same treatment that thieves got.Btw, thieves have CDs, it is called initiative which takes TIME to recharge in case you didn't know. And thieves do have CDs on utility skills, once again, just so you know.

Finally counter to thieves? Well, why don't you give thieves counter to other classes. And i mean actual counter, e.g. successful steal prevents guard from using virtues etc. Or do you admit that you just want thief to afk and give you bags?

@Cynz.9437 said:

@Sasajoe.1509 said:Spamming evades doesn't equal skill, this change should have been made loooong time ago (as more are needed to bring this class in line)Can't have everything: HUGE burst, teleports, evade SPAM, mobility, stealth, no cooldowns & ability to

reset

combat indefinitely until your opponent has blown off all his cooldowns & is left just standing in the open (which let's be honest isn't making the game particularly fun).

Also nobody forces thieves to play full zerker gear - you can always use some toughness/vitality combo like most other classes in wvw do.

Thieves complaining about power creep....really? Unhindered combatant was not deleted it was brought into line to allow counterplay, it was broken and abused to hell and about time it was changed.

Thief is not locked out of their AA, being in stealth gives you access to a BONUS skill, it is not an Auto attack. If a warrior misses with their burst skill, it goes on cooldown, and they lose their adrenaline.

Initiative and skill cooldown are not the same thing. Thieves can use the same weapon skill multiple times if there is enough initiative.

Why do you think it is ok to spam dodges while having perma vigor and being immune to soft cc's at the same time?

In my opinion it should just have an internal cd on the condi removal effect. Losing endurance regen will make it useless. Cripple is spammable it is everywhere.

20 endurance to null cripple chill and immob is still cheaper than what most classes can do. Thieves love saying stuff like l2p and deal with it; how about taking your own advice?

@X T D.6458 said:

@Cynz.9437 said:

@Sasajoe.1509 said:Spamming evades doesn't equal skill, this change should have been made loooong time ago (as more are needed to bring this class in line)Can't have everything: HUGE burst, teleports, evade SPAM, mobility, stealth, no cooldowns & ability to

reset

combat indefinitely until your opponent has blown off all his cooldowns & is left just standing in the open (which let's be honest isn't making the game particularly fun).

Also nobody forces thieves to play full zerker gear - you can always use some toughness/vitality combo like most other classes in wvw do.

What she means is once in stealth and we miss our "BONUS" skill then yes, we are locked out of AA because stealth attack goes on a cd instead of resetting back to AA.

I believe someone in the past did the math and the thief's iniative system is a longer CD than all other class's due to global effects from only 1 bar of iniative for 2 weapon sets.

We don't have perma vigor but you're right that we do have plenty of vigor/endurance income but they have been nerfed (not to the ground) in a few ways.

The fact is though, theif or daredevil NEVER broke the game (or do you count the time there was no such thing as reveal) apart from when that guy soled a raid boss in pve using ghost thief. We have scourges and apparently spell breakers that's brraking the game, theif was just an annoying wasp at the most.

@Cynz.9437 said:

@Sasajoe.1509 said:In WvW thief is just plain cancer to the game, no other class (except for warrior) can go full zerker (as much as many want to) and be legit in roaming - you can try to, but the first thief with even half brain will insta gib you.

People want to have fun playing a game & thieves are just taking away that element plain and simple, being privileged with the things I said above :-1:"HUGE burst, teleports, evade SPAM, mobility, stealth, no cooldowns & ability to reset combat indefinitely until your opponent has blown off all his cooldowns"

& initiative although it was meant to be a cooldown mechanic it simply doesn't cut it because there plenty of ways to restore it WHILE it also recharges passively:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Initiative#Skills_which_restore_initiative

Thats even better than chronomancer's alacrity

So in conclusion thief makes the game (Wvw) not fun for any other class facing it & needs to be brought in line even more.

Other classes simply have to group up because if they go ALONE they don't have much chance vs a thief & even if they can pull out such a feat the thief can simply disengage & come back later when the other guy has no cds.

=> one of the main causes for grouping / blobbing are the roaming thieves xD => you brought it upon yourselves boys.

@Cynz.9437 said:It is not fun to be constantly target of the nerfs because people that have 0 idea about the class cry rivers for those nerfs.

Maybe you should stop playing the victim and learn how the game is run, the vast majority of nerfs to thief have nothing to do with people "crying", especially in regard to WvW which is basically ignored as far as balance goes in this game (e.g - People "cried" about permastealth condi thief for years, it only got nerfed after one soloed a raid boss showing what a joke their "challenging" PvE is), thief nerfs mostly stem from the fact that for most of this game it has been meta in PvP (the thing they virtually entirely balanced the game around for three years).

And yes as far as WvW large scale goes thief on the whole other than a niche role back when guilds used focus parties does not bring much and is underpowered (and yes things like guard, necro are broken OP for large groups), but then that goes for engi, ranger, for most of the game mesmer other than a couple of veilbots, etc, and it doesn't alter that for roaming thief has been the ez-mode class of choice because for the most part if you screw up you are not one shot and can therefore usually disengage or reset the fight, you can also pick and choose your fights, which at the most fundamental level breaks a pretty core concept of PvP 'risk vs reward'.

Two 'wrongs' don't make a 'right'.

@Sasajoe.1509 said:

@Cynz.9437 said:

@Sasajoe.1509 said:In WvW thief is just plain cancer to the game, no other class (except for warrior) can go full zerker (as much as many want to) and be legit in roaming - you can try to, but the first thief with even half brain will insta gib you.

People want to have fun playing a game & thieves are just taking away that element plain and simple, being privileged with the things I said above :-1:"HUGE burst, teleports, evade SPAM, mobility, stealth, no cooldowns & ability to reset combat indefinitely until your opponent has blown off all his cooldowns"

& initiative although it was meant to be a cooldown mechanic it simply doesn't cut it because there plenty of ways to restore it WHILE it also recharges passively:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Initiative#Skills_which_restore_initiative

Thats even better than chronomancer's alacrity

So in conclusion thief makes the game (Wvw) not fun for any other class facing it & needs to be brought in line even more.

Necro/Ele Main here: you are joking right? Thieves are the reason people group up? Where have you been? People have Zerged from the start. People Zerg because it allows use of large quantities of siege to take out towers/keeps. People Zerg to have large scale fights.

Sooooo few 'group up' to avoid thieves lol.

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Sasajoe.1509 said:

@Cynz.9437 said:

@Sasajoe.1509 said:In WvW thief is just plain cancer to the game, no other class (except for warrior) can go full zerker (as much as many want to) and be legit in roaming - you can try to, but the first thief with even half brain will insta gib you.

People want to have fun playing a game & thieves are just taking away that element plain and simple, being privileged with the things I said above :-1:"HUGE burst, teleports, evade SPAM, mobility, stealth, no cooldowns & ability to reset combat indefinitely until your opponent has blown off all his cooldowns"

& initiative although it was meant to be a cooldown mechanic it simply doesn't cut it because there plenty of ways to restore it WHILE it also recharges passively:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Initiative#Skills_which_restore_initiative

Thats even better than chronomancer's alacrity

So in conclusion thief makes the game (Wvw) not fun for any other class facing it & needs to be brought in line even more.

If you can see I said ONE of the main causes for grouping (which includes in 2s, 3s or more - not only big blobs)- not the only cause.

I'm said about this nerf on the class that I like the most. In PvP I almost never find another Daredevil like me, they are all Deadeyes (so probably we weren't so "OP"). DD have high dps burst, true. But with such low HP, they only way to stay alive for more than 2 seconds, is to RUN. Nerfing the dodge makes this spec not very viable, forcing to play something else. And I don't like to play like a DE, it's a completing different experience.But I guess everyone must buy PoF and play the new elites.

@Sasajoe.1509 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Sasajoe.1509 said:

@Cynz.9437 said:

@Sasajoe.1509 said:In WvW thief is just plain cancer to the game, no other class (except for warrior) can go full zerker (as much as many want to) and be legit in roaming - you can try to, but the first thief with even half brain will insta gib you.

People want to have fun playing a game & thieves are just taking away that element plain and simple, being privileged with the things I said above :-1:"HUGE burst, teleports, evade SPAM, mobility, stealth, no cooldowns & ability to reset combat indefinitely until your opponent has blown off all his cooldowns"

& initiative although it was meant to be a cooldown mechanic it simply doesn't cut it because there plenty of ways to restore it WHILE it also recharges passively:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Initiative#Skills_which_restore_initiative

Thats even better than chronomancer's alacrity

So in conclusion thief makes the game (Wvw) not fun for any other class facing it & needs to be brought in line even more.

Read your own post: grouping/blobbing.

If you consider 3 a blob, we are done with this conversation.

If someone is running back to the Zerg, ANY roaming class/build would create a nightmare for them to make it back solo. Even removing thief wouldn't change that.

It doesn't help to use hyperbole to make a point.

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Sasajoe.1509 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Sasajoe.1509 said:

@Cynz.9437 said:

@Sasajoe.1509 said:In WvW thief is just plain cancer to the game, no other class (except for warrior) can go full zerker (as much as many want to) and be legit in roaming - you can try to, but the first thief with even half brain will insta gib you.

People want to have fun playing a game & thieves are just taking away that element plain and simple, being privileged with the things I said above :-1:"HUGE burst, teleports, evade SPAM, mobility, stealth, no cooldowns & ability to reset combat indefinitely until your opponent has blown off all his cooldowns"

& initiative although it was meant to be a cooldown mechanic it simply doesn't cut it because there plenty of ways to restore it WHILE it also recharges passively:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Initiative#Skills_which_restore_initiative

Thats even better than chronomancer's alacrity

So in conclusion thief makes the game (Wvw) not fun for any other class facing it & needs to be brought in line even more.

grouping = 2s/3s/4s/5s & it is a real thing if you don't want to be hunted by an op mobility + burst class...

Come on man, you know what I mean, don't play dumb.

@Sasajoe.1509 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Sasajoe.1509 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Sasajoe.1509 said:

@Cynz.9437 said:

@Sasajoe.1509 said:In WvW thief is just plain cancer to the game, no other class (except for warrior) can go full zerker (as much as many want to) and be legit in roaming - you can try to, but the first thief with even half brain will insta gib you.

People want to have fun playing a game & thieves are just taking away that element plain and simple, being privileged with the things I said above :-1:"HUGE burst, teleports, evade SPAM, mobility, stealth, no cooldowns & ability to reset combat indefinitely until your opponent has blown off all his cooldowns"

& initiative although it was meant to be a cooldown mechanic it simply doesn't cut it because there plenty of ways to restore it WHILE it also recharges passively:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Initiative#Skills_which_restore_initiative

Thats even better than chronomancer's alacrity

So in conclusion thief makes the game (Wvw) not fun for any other class facing it & needs to be brought in line even more.

Lol... Again, zerk thief worries me much less than Mesmer, warrior or condi thief.

And I am not arguing that groupibgup is needed to return you your guild group orbzerg to avoid classes, I just don't feelLike thief is the cause.

Mesmers are pretty easy to outrun actually unlike thieves.

Whether a warrior could catch up to you depends on his build (there are not that many nike warriors nowadays) while thief be it power or condi can & will catch up to you if he decides to.