I am very disappointed in the "Balance Patch"

This "balance patch" is very small and just fixed stuff that should've been fixed since day 1 of the Mirage.

Anet hasn't adressed any of the mirage's core issues. No rework to mirrors, no rework of phantasms as a mirage, no adjustments to shatter skills as a mirage, etc. This patch is just a small bugfix with minor adjustments to axe and some traits. That's it.But at least we got a new UI effect that tells us that we're mirages, without actually changing f-skills. How cheap!

It's a shame that these patches are called "balance patches". We have to wait another 3 to 4 months for another "balance patch" like that that only adresses a specific aspect of the mesmer again... It's just not enough.

To be fair, did you expect anything else? I was O.O when I read the Druid and Reaper changes because hey, some people seem to actually do balance changes, but the rest was the usual small number changes.

@Carighan.6758 said:To be fair, did you expect anything else? I was O.O when I read the Druid and Reaper changes because hey, some people seem to actually do balance changes, but the rest was the usual small number changes.

I expected at least something more. But pretty much just bug fixes is not enough, especially since balance patches happen only quarterly!

Mirage and mesmer need a lot of look into their design but Anet doesn't care anymore. I'm sure they are already working on their next mesmer elite spec and since they got the money of people who bought PoF for elite specs they don't feel the need to change those specs.

The biggest flaw of GW2 in my opinion are the bad balance decisions of Anet. Balance patches every 3 months is not enough and they don't even adress major issues of a class.

This balance patch was mostly bug fixes and adjustments for mirage. So basically prior to releasing POF here was the balance patch for mesmer;Reduce greatsword phantasmal cast time.Took 3months for this balance.I guess alot of people are happy because there were no nerfs for mirage. But no changes to core or chronomancer. Gonna have to wait for another 3-4 months I guess

Ditto. If ever there was any doubt that Anet is deep into Maintenance Mode on GW2, this last sorry excuse for a balance patch, which already came in way later then expected (after a mid-season Xpac release mind-you), was certainly concrete proof.

I think Anet lost it's appetite for PvP balance. I don't get the feeling they care about PvP much at all anymore. Probably stems from the Esports fiasco, that's the only thing I can think of that might be forcing them to show such a high level of disregard for PvP in this game. :(

@Sodeni.6041 said:This "balance patch" is very small and just fixed stuff that should've been fixed since day 1 of the Mirage.

Anet hasn't adressed any of the mirage's core issues. No rework to mirrors, no rework of phantasms as a mirage, no adjustments to shatter skills as a mirage, etc. This patch is just a small bugfix with minor adjustments to axe and some traits. That's it.But at least we got a new UI effect that tells us that we're mirages, without actually changing f-skills. How cheap!

It's a shame that these patches are called "balance patches". We have to wait another 3 to 4 months for another "balance patch" like that that only adresses a specific aspect of the mesmer again... It's just not enough.

I agree with you, but considering what we usually get, this was a great balance patch for mesmers. No nerfs. Various small buffs. Improvements to axe. Its a better patch for mesmers than many in the past have been

@Sodeni.6041 said:Anet hasn't adressed any of the mirage's core issues. No rework to mirrors, no rework of phantasms as a mirage, no adjustments to shatter skills as a mirage.

What's the issue with any of these? You don't need to take any of the 4 sources of mirror. And False Oasis heals/time almost as much as a fully charged aether feast and that's without the vigor and without the mirror. They are visually cool little bonuses for spare mobility. And Mirage has spare mobility.

Mirage gives no specific support to phantasm builds just as chronomancer gives no specific support to condition stacking builds.

And how is not having one more shatter skill an issue? Because it doesn't match your interpretation of mesmer elite specs?

Sorry you got disappointed though. Try out a working Mirage build and if you still writhe in disgust, maybe it's just not the spec for you.

One of the big issues is that Ambush skills reset auto attack chains. Not a big issue when you're cloaking proactively for the skill toggle, but when you have to cloak reactivity as a dodge it just seems like you're getting punished since most auto skills have a decent finishing chain skill: Axe spawn (axe), boon removal (sword), clone summon (scepter), evade (spear). Would be nice if the auto chain didn't get reset.

Mirriors aren't too bad especially since you can walk into them yourself to gain cloak. It'd be worse if they could only be broken by enemies. could they be flashy or do something else? I mean, sure. But I'm not looking at them at the moment thing they are terrible.

Shatter reworks? Why? Unless you want to throw in an F5 to do something mirage-y?

As far as Phantasm support? Well you have Illusionary Ambush which re-focuses your illusions' targets. That alone save you from having to resummon all your phantasms. Granted it's on a 20s cd, but not even Chronomancer can retarget illusions.

Honestly my biggest gripe with mirage is still that superseed won't work on strafes; losing left and right dodges is a much worse tradeoff than losing back dodge.

A bunch of us sound like we're in abuse: "Hey, it's my birthday, but my partner didn't get me anything. Well, at least they didn't hit me, so it's a good day!"

Honestly this patch was fine... If it were part of a series of regularly scheduled balance patches. There's nothing wrong with doing small tweaks to a class in one patch to be followed by later changes in the next. The problem is that we know this is the only balance that we'll see for the next 5-6 months.

@Miroe.2054 said:

@Sodeni.6041 said:Anet hasn't adressed any of the

mirage's core issues

. No rework to mirrors, no rework of phantasms as a mirage, no adjustments to shatter skills as a mirage.

Because mirrors are the closest thing to the new mechanic of this so called elite spec?

Because Mesmer/Mirage is based on mechanics that conflict with each other and have been needed to look at for years now.

Because Shatters are one of said mechanics that contradict and an elite spec would have been a perfect place to rework them if they didn't want to do it for the core class and would have doubled up as making Mirage an actual elite spec instead of a new trait line with a weapon attached and this art asset they absolutely have to use.

@Windwalker.7421 said:Ditto. If ever there was any doubt that Anet is deep into Maintenance Mode on GW2, this last sorry excuse for a balance patch, which already came in way later then expected (after a mid-season Xpac release mind-you), was certainly concrete proof.

I think Anet lost it's appetite for PvP balance. I don't get the feeling they care about PvP much at all anymore. Probably stems from the Esports fiasco, that's the only thing I can think of that might be forcing them to show such a high level of disregard for PvP in this game. :(

Not sure maintanace mode fits a game which just now had an expansion release, is about to have a new Living World season release and had a stable living world season 3 release befor that while not having any delays (or to severe bugs) on expansion launch.

I get it, you are unhappy with spvp balance, but maybe choose your worlds more wisely. Spvp not getting the amount of attention you think it deserves has very likely more to do with were the majority of the playerbase actual plays, then with any "maintanance mode".

@OriOri.8724 said:

@Sodeni.6041 said:This "balance patch" is very small and just fixed stuff that should've been fixed since day 1 of the Mirage.

Anet hasn't adressed any of the

mirage's core issues

. No rework to mirrors, no rework of phantasms as a mirage, no adjustments to shatter skills as a mirage, etc. This patch is just a small bugfix with minor adjustments to axe and some traits. That's it.But at least we got a new UI effect that tells us that we're mirages, without actually changing f-skills. How cheap!

It's a shame that these patches are called

"balance patches"

. We have to wait

another 3 to 4 months

for another "balance patch" like that that only adresses a specific aspect of the mesmer again...

It's just not enough

.

The "small" buffs have people already hitting 45k DPS on golem in pve, without fully optimized rotations.

@Sojourner.4621 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:

@Sodeni.6041 said:This "balance patch" is very small and just fixed stuff that should've been fixed since day 1 of the Mirage.

Anet hasn't adressed any of the

mirage's core issues

. No rework to mirrors, no rework of phantasms as a mirage, no adjustments to shatter skills as a mirage, etc. This patch is just a small bugfix with minor adjustments to axe and some traits. That's it.But at least we got a new UI effect that tells us that we're mirages, without actually changing f-skills. How cheap!

It's a shame that these patches are called

"balance patches"

. We have to wait

another 3 to 4 months

for another "balance patch" like that that only adresses a specific aspect of the mesmer again...

It's just not enough

.

45k is just a wee bit higher than what I've seen. Care to link a video of that accomplishment?

@Levetty.1279 said:

Because mirrors are the closest thing to the new mechanic of this so called elite spec?

Because Mesmer/Mirage is based on mechanics that conflict with each other and have been needed to look at for years now.

Because Shatters are one of said mechanics that contradict and an elite spec would have been a perfect place to rework them if they didn't want to do it for the core class and would have doubled up as making Mirage an actual elite spec instead of a new trait line with a weapon attached and this art asset they absolutely have to use.

The issue is that it is a new mechanic? That is not an issue. I think what you mean is that the skills are weak and a waste of space. Which I would contradict by pointing out that mirror skills have already found their place in the meta. False Oasis is a very good heal even without mirror and sand shards is used in the 31k Condi PvE build. The main feature of the Mirage is Mirage coat. That is our powerful and prominent mechanic.

That's called decision making. Shattering will cost you your phantasms, not shattering will save your phantasms. The mesmers balancing is built with this decision in mind. You can't have both. If you could, both would get a nerf. With chronophantasma you get a bit of both but at the cost of your elite grandmaster.

That would mean that for every elite spec they'd have to make a different rework for shatters instead of focussing on the concept of the elite spec. Which in this case is just as well developed as the chronomancer exept of it being top down design instead of bottom up. (Starting with the feel of the class and working out the mechanics instead of the other way round) The direction of the development does not define the quality.

I think the reality is you've just got to enjoy the game for what it is right now and not expect anything more. What we've got is what we're stuck with, beyond minor tweaks.

If that means a casual experience then that's how it is.

I can't see this ever changing for the entire lifetime of GW2 to come.

@Sojourner.4621 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:

@Sodeni.6041 said:This "balance patch" is very small and just fixed stuff that should've been fixed since day 1 of the Mirage.

Anet hasn't adressed any of the

mirage's core issues

. No rework to mirrors, no rework of phantasms as a mirage, no adjustments to shatter skills as a mirage, etc. This patch is just a small bugfix with minor adjustments to axe and some traits. That's it.But at least we got a new UI effect that tells us that we're mirages, without actually changing f-skills. How cheap!

It's a shame that these patches are called

"balance patches"

. We have to wait

another 3 to 4 months

for another "balance patch" like that that only adresses a specific aspect of the mesmer again...

It's just not enough

.

I need to see a video of this 45k damage, one that doesn't rely on cheese gimmicks like SB sharing stances with our illusions. I hadn't had a chance to login and test the changes myself when I wrote that comment, I'm not too surprised that all together they were more impactful than I originally thought.

@OriOri.8724 said:

@Sojourner.4621 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:

@Sodeni.6041 said:This "balance patch" is very small and just fixed stuff that should've been fixed since day 1 of the Mirage.

Anet hasn't adressed any of the

mirage's core issues

. No rework to mirrors, no rework of phantasms as a mirage, no adjustments to shatter skills as a mirage, etc. This patch is just a small bugfix with minor adjustments to axe and some traits. That's it.But at least we got a new UI effect that tells us that we're mirages, without actually changing f-skills. How cheap!

It's a shame that these patches are called

"balance patches"

. We have to wait

another 3 to 4 months

for another "balance patch" like that that only adresses a specific aspect of the mesmer again...

It's just not enough

.

45k is with SB stance sharing. However, it looks like 40k is possible legit.

For any boons: you' re only ever going to get boons, stances and shit on a phantasm if it comes from your own traits. They' re below pets in boon priority.

@Miroe.2054 said:

@Levetty.1279 said:

Because mirrors are the closest thing to the new mechanic of this so called elite spec?

Because Mesmer/Mirage is based on mechanics that conflict with each other and have been needed to look at for years now.

Because Shatters are one of said mechanics that contradict and an elite spec would have been a perfect place to rework them if they didn't want to do it for the core class and would have doubled up as making Mirage an actual elite spec instead of a new trait line with a weapon attached and this art asset they absolutely have to use.

The absolute state of this post, I hate it when people purposefully try and confuse and bend conversations instead of talking in good faith. I don't even know where to start so heres just random thoughts that popped into my head while reading it.

Yes, mirrors are the only thing that comes close to a new mechanic on this 'elite spec' and the basic design has been tried various times in this game. Running around to collect pick ups does not work in this game and it has been pointed out every time they have tried it.

If that was the case why did they redesign all the warrior adrenaline traits so that they no longer had to chose between saving it for passive buffs or using their burst skill?

Chronophantasma is a Chrono trait. Its also vastly overrated as a 'fix' to this problem as its little more then a illusion generation trait or a way to use Continuum shift at the start of a fight.

If not making a new mechanic for the elite spec allowed them to focus on the concept of the class why have we just ended up with another dueling spec that plays exactly like core Mesmer?

Yes I would prefer if Mesmer elite specs were like other elite specs and not just a sub par trait line with a new weapon attached. It doesn't always have to be rework for shatters, it can be a new shatter like Chorno, it can be reworks to clones or Phantasms, it could be some new mode you can enter like Druid or Holosmith hell they could even make some SoulPhantasm spec.

They didn't even start with a feel for the spec, they had a name and an art asset, threw an axe on top and then went about making 100 new skills for ele.

@Windwalker.7421 said:I think Anet lost it's appetite for PvP balance. I don't get the feeling they care about PvP much at all anymore. Probably stems from the Esports fiasco, that's the only thing I can think of that might be forcing them to show such a high level of disregard for PvP in this game. :(

But see, that's something I can understand. Especially in light of the crushing market supremacy of MOBAs, and the decades old incompatibility of MMORPGs with smallscale PVP, I wouldn't mind a developer not focusing their balance on it (though, importantly, that's not at all the same as never balancing for PvP, just that it wouldn't be the focus).

But, ANet isn't balancing for PvE either. Or WvW. Or anything. At the glacial pace of balance changes in GW2, they're not actually balanced for anything, because whatever the issue is, by the time any changes come around they've long become accepted reality or people have long quit in dejected disappointment.

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:

@Sojourner.4621 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:

@Sodeni.6041 said:This "balance patch" is very small and just fixed stuff that should've been fixed since day 1 of the Mirage.

Anet hasn't adressed any of the

mirage's core issues

. No rework to mirrors, no rework of phantasms as a mirage, no adjustments to shatter skills as a mirage, etc. This patch is just a small bugfix with minor adjustments to axe and some traits. That's it.But at least we got a new UI effect that tells us that we're mirages, without actually changing f-skills. How cheap!

It's a shame that these patches are called

"balance patches"

. We have to wait

another 3 to 4 months

for another "balance patch" like that that only adresses a specific aspect of the mesmer again...

It's just not enough

.

Yeah, the 45k DPS was already debunked. Stance sharing + Burning Stacks from Sun Spirit apply to both Mirage and all 3 illusions. Frost Spirit was in place too but I imagine that made no noticeable difference on the clones.

I saw the 40k DPS as well but, alas, that was a screenshot. Sounds more realistic but waiting on video proof or time tonight to sit down and beat up a golem myself.

@savacli.8172 said:One of the big issues is that Ambush skills reset auto attack chains. Not a big issue when you're cloaking proactively for the skill toggle, but when you have to cloak reactivity as a dodge it just seems like you're getting punished since most auto skills have a decent finishing chain skill: Axe spawn (axe), boon removal (sword), clone summon (scepter), evade (spear). Would be nice if the auto chain didn't get reset.

Mirriors aren't too bad especially since you can walk into them yourself to gain cloak. It'd be worse if they could only be broken by enemies. could they be flashy or do something else? I mean, sure. But I'm not looking at them at the moment thing they are terrible.

Shatter reworks? Why? Unless you want to throw in an F5 to do something mirage-y?

As far as Phantasm support? Well you have Illusionary Ambush which re-focuses your illusions' targets. That alone save you from having to resummon all your phantasms. Granted it's on a 20s cd, but not even Chronomancer can retarget illusions.

Mirrors aren t bad ? Can you imagen if the DH or ranger or thief have to walk to the trap to activate it , if Anet make this change like this players will spitfire , yet we have to do this on this spec , and there comes the shatter if thy remake them like press shatter and mirror shatter with different effect like one support , the other spred different condi, this would work better and for a mirage cloak don t worth the risk to walk there and shatter it , so the mirror will be wasted . I know this class was built for Pvp , but not all is big fun of this part of the game . As for retarged my experience in regular mobs it is useles thy die faster then you can use it , and axe 3 only works on axe clones , in boss fight like Gorse spirit phase you face the same problem . And build part this spec didn t changed anything duel/illu/mirage , unity is 2 signet 1 mirage skill or core like blink , the elit can be jount because the loss of dodge . So this spec didn t give any freedom only provide restriction. The original topic the patch , well there were bugs thy fixed them , no notable changes, same mechanic like before IH is in the trait line , mirage matle is still a joke .

@savacli.8172 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:

@Sojourner.4621 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:

@Sodeni.6041 said:This "balance patch" is very small and just fixed stuff that should've been fixed since day 1 of the Mirage.

Anet hasn't adressed any of the

mirage's core issues

. No rework to mirrors, no rework of phantasms as a mirage, no adjustments to shatter skills as a mirage, etc. This patch is just a small bugfix with minor adjustments to axe and some traits. That's it.But at least we got a new UI effect that tells us that we're mirages, without actually changing f-skills. How cheap!

It's a shame that these patches are called

"balance patches"

. We have to wait

another 3 to 4 months

for another "balance patch" like that that only adresses a specific aspect of the mesmer again...

It's just not enough

.

Has this build been tested sans Fencer's Finesse and on a small hitbox while not standing inside of it?