Can we get the old chaos vortex back ?

Going to be clear this is a post about flavour and feel not about dps. It is about giving mesmer a stronger identity and a better feel again.

The old chaos vortex did confusion and torment.Which are very much mesmer conditions. Now it is changed to more generic conditions bleeding/burning/vun. I get this is done to match the condi's from winds of chaos. But I think this is a mistake I think it is a better plan to do it the other way around. Make the winds of chaos do confusion and torment. Since these skills now do decent dammage in PvE it should not be a problem but it would make the mesmer/mirage way more flavourfull again. Bleeding and burning is not the domain of a mesmer it is confusion and torment.

I think it is a mistake to give mesmer all type's of condi's just to have a better spread. Since condi's now stack properly there is not much of a loss like there as on release. There is no need to give mesmer acces to a source of bleeding/burning to be able to make it a viable condi build. The same goes for chaos storm inflicting poison and chilled.

Are we talking pve or spvp/wvw?

For pve, sure it might make little difference.

For spvp/wvw it makes a huge difference what condis and how many different types you can apply.

Talking mainly for PvE, I do not play enough spvp/wvw to claim to be able to speak on there behalve in any competent manner. The following is my opinion in this and my observations:

I get that having fewer conditions are easier to clean, but I do think that torment and confusion are far more intresting conditions to work with. Maybe even forcing counter play like having a chooice who to clean. The person who has poison so he isn't being healed properly or the person who has confusion on him making him take massive dammage while he attacks.

For me it was a really sad change, I was running Perplexity Runes (pretty expensive) with Infinite Horizon for a decent confusion DPS and this ruined my build / investment (Thank you Anet for that). IMO changes like these should never happen. It's like if you farm a Healer's Ascended Gear for your Druid and then they remove his heals changing for a bleed focused spec...

@RafaWarBR.7106 said:For me it was a really sad change, I was running Perplexity Runes (pretty expensive) with Infinite Horizon for a decent confusion DPS and this ruined my build / investment (Thank you Anet for that). IMO changes like these should never happen. It's like if you farm a Healer's Ascended Gear for your Druid and then they remove his heals changing for a bleed focused spec...

Same here. Its a real bad change and I agree that Bleeding and burning don't suit the mesmer. Revert those changes and rework staff to do torment and confusion on auto attack.

Mesmer needs more burning not less.

Yikes! That would be a terrible decision. No Anet, please leave it as it is now...

Thx!

I rather like staff as it is now. Its the weapon defined by the chaos line. It makes sense that it wouldn't use our primary conditions. Plus, this gives mesmer the ability to apply cover conditions if they want to

I'm not sure people here realise how big a difference damage wise burning is compared to other conditions.

Burning:(0.155 * Condition Damage) + 131 damage per stack at level 80

Torment:(0.06 Condition Damage) + 22 damage per stack per second at level 80 (stationary pve)(0.045 Condition Damage) + 15.9 damage per stack per second at level 80(stationary pvp/wvw)(0.09 * Condition Damage) + 31.8 damage per stack per second at level 80 (while moving)

Bleeding(0.06 * Condition Damage) + 22 damage per stack per second at level 80

That's bevor even accounting for condition cleanse. Even torment while moving, which is the 2nd highest condition damage after burning, would require aproximately 2.5 stacks of torment worth of application to draw even. As is, I'm not sure a mere thematic unfitness warrents this type of change. Otherwise you'll see forums full of people complaining about 40-50 stacks of torment and bleeding.

I actually like it right now - and the extra vuln also synergises nicely for my preferred hybrid play - setting up larger F1 bursts or whatever. :)

Sure we ought to have more confusion than bleed, thematically, but I'm not too fussed with it being bleed on the auto and vortex.