Reaper was never suppose to be a tank stop trying to be a tank >.<

Why are people still trying to whine and make it a tank. We need shroud to last 33 seconds why? You never got the 33 seconds anyways if you were taking damage. IT suppose to be a high damage melee brawler. Why are you trying to tank? Dont blame the shroud degen as being the problem.The problem is the lack of defensive tools that are not built into core not the damn new degen levels on reaper shroud.

So if you guys want things to whine about whine about the lack of true defensive tools on core necro not reaper.The damage buff was a small step in the right direction that came 2 years too late enjoy it. If you think anet will just sit back and give back the old shroud degen and let you keep all this damage for free you are mistaken. So you can do no damage and have a useless profession mechanic button on a spec that was ment to be high power high damage melee or you can actually feel strong when you smash that shroud button and kill things that stand in your way.

AT MOST IF ANYTHING THE DEGEN IS TOO MUCH you should be asking for more dps increases to compensate for it not the other way around.

IF you dont like it that much start build crafting with scourge and or core necro. But please stop asking for steps back in the wrong direction

It’s not the fact it lasts less, it’s the fact it makes you unable to absorb that much more damage. Shroud is the necromancer’s only and best form of damage mitigation, and the reason it lacks all the other damage mitigating tools other classes have, and in addition we loose our utilities. In PvP and WvW it will still be easy as hell to kite.

The damage buffs are fantastic, but if anything this moves necro away from being an Attrition Class. Anet needs to decide if shroud is something akin to photo forge (a resource based on demand transformation that offers a lot of power and damage), or a damage mitigation tool. It can’t be both.

I think the main issue is that the concept of the shroud, up to now, stood up for to many things, covering most of the necro's defense while trying to be a way to deal damage and support allies at the same time. The reaper's community who was used to the infamous vital persistence and a shorter shroud cool down just end up with a lot less shroud uptime all of a sudden and it totally break the way they were playing. For them it's like if they were playing elementalist for a long time and all of a sudden, attunment shared their cool down or if they were playing engineer and all of a sudden there was a 10 second cool down when using a kit.

Maybe, it would have been better if the shroud have been a mere weapon swap with no 2nd life bar and spectral skills/skills that grant LF gave a barrier value instead of life force. There would have been no bad habit and players would have relied naturally on spectral skills to survive instead of relying on shroud.

@ZDragon.3046 said:Why are people still trying to whine and make it a tank. We need shroud to last 33 seconds why? You never got the 33 seconds anyways if you were taking damage. IT suppose to be a high damage melee brawler. Why are you trying to tank? Dont blame the shroud degen as being the problem.The problem is the lack of defensive tools that are not built into core not the kitten new degen levels on reaper shroud.

So if you guys want things to whine about whine about the lack of true defensive tools on core necro not reaper.The damage buff was a small step in the right direction that came 2 years too late enjoy it. If you think anet will just sit back and give back the old shroud degen and let you keep all this damage for free you are mistaken. So you can do no damage and have a useless profession mechanic button on a spec that was ment to be high power high damage melee or you can actually feel strong when you smash that shroud button and kill things that stand in your way.

AT MOST IF ANYTHING THE DEGEN IS TOO MUCH you should be asking for more dps increases to compensate for it not the other way around.

IF you dont like it that much start build crafting with scourge and or core necro. But please stop asking for steps back in the wrong direction

Possibly because tanking is all necro has got as a defensive stat? every other class has access to vigor (or endurence recovery in trait form), block and/or invulnerability. so when you look at the necromancers poor access to such important buffs that if it had it would not have to be dependant on shroud? if necromancer did not have to relie on shroud to take hits for them (vigor , blocks or invulerability in traits or skills) this change would of not had such the backlash it does now. i don't disagree with them wanting to make shroud more of a burst damage thing but if you are to make changes such as that then you need to fix the other issues too. just making shroud stronger but making it degrade faster does not solve anything if anything it will get the necromancer killed. why have more DPS if you don't get chance to use it?

I haven't played a ton since the patch, but I always popped out of Shroud before it was up anyways, so I haven't noticed much a difference. You can't use utilities so there really isn't a reason to camp it. Slow AA-ing isn't that fun is it?

@ZDragon.3046 said:IF you dont like it that much start build crafting with scourge and or core necro.

You didn't really bring any convincing arguments to the table. You're this far from telling players they can't pick Necromancer anymore, play another class!

Bruisers need hit points, too!

@TheLastNobody.8319 said:It’s not the fact it lasts less, it’s the fact it makes you unable to absorb that much more damage. Shroud is the necromancer’s only and best form of damage mitigation, and the reason it lacks all the other damage mitigating tools other classes have, and in addition we loose our utilities. In PvP and WvW it will still be easy as hell to kite.

The damage buffs are fantastic, but if anything this moves necro away from being an Attrition Class. Anet needs to decide if shroud is something akin to photo forge (a resource based on demand transformation that offers a lot of power and damage), or a damage mitigation tool. It can’t be both.

From your perspective i do sort of agree with you photo forge is ideally what reaper should have been. But even forge has a resource tool it just works backwards from life force in a way with the over heating system.

but at the same time core engi has defensive tools. that are not connected to its profession mechanic. Core necro does not. I still think it sits as a core problem not a reaper problem.

@Slayer.7318 said:

Possibly because tanking is all necro has got as a defensive stat? every other class has access to vigor (or endurence recovery in trait form), block and/or invulnerability. so when you look at the necromancers poor access to such important buffs that if it had it would not have to be dependant on shroud? if necromancer did not have to relie on shroud to take hits for them (vigor , blocks or invulerability in traits or skills) this change would of not had such the backlash it does now. i don't disagree with them wanting to make shroud more of a burst damage thing but if you are to make changes such as that then you need to fix the other issues too. just making shroud stronger but making it degrade faster does not solve anything if anything it will get the necromancer killed. why have more DPS if you don't get chance to use it?

Hmmm yes this is true necro has no way of getting those important boons (except with the socurge trait that allows you to steal others boons you rip or corrupt) which in my opinion should have been part of necro's core kit. Blocks maybe not.. im not sure how a necro thematically would work in blocking skills. Some sort of invulnerability yes.

Ideally they could fix not having time to perform some of those skills by also cutting down the cast time, after cast, number of hits. while upping the damage on the skills that lose some of their multi hits. Necromancer is behind in all ways shapes and forms still to this day. We have old traits that date back to nearl release of the game that are still using icd timers of 60 seconds lol (way too high) We have a life stealing system that is not valued based on outgoing damage (most disliked idea behind blood magic traits.)

Still i dont think that simply saying having free damage at no cost is something anet will ever do for the necromancer. For ages ive hated reaper in pvp because it failed to do the damage that other professions could do while having less mobility and defensive tools. Now if you pick your moments right at least the damage is there. (could be more still though)

It should always feel empowering to use your profession mechanic without the damage bonus reaper had not felt this good sense it was in beta. Keep in mind that some other profession got some rather interesting nerfs as well and that reaper is not the only one to be considered if you plan on using it agianst other players. I have alot easier time with most warriors now due to the stance nerfs. Before you simply just could not fight a warriors because they just ran right over your face swimming in boons that kept pulsing like resistance and stability.

@Dadnir.5038 said:I think the main issue is that the concept of the shroud, up to now, stood up for to many things, covering most of the necro's defense while trying to be a way to deal damage and support allies at the same time. The reaper's community who was used to the infamous vital persistence and a shorter shroud cool down just end up with a lot less shroud uptime all of a sudden and it totally break the way they were playing. For them it's like if they were playing elementalist for a long time and all of a sudden, attunment shared their cool down or if they were playing engineer and all of a sudden there was a 10 second cool down when using a kit.

Maybe, it would have been better if the shroud have been a mere weapon swap with no 2nd life bar and spectral skills/skills that grant LF gave a barrier value instead of life force. There would have been no bad habit and players would have relied naturally on spectral skills to survive instead of relying on shroud.

Fair point aswellAlso i also thought of a similar concept of using life force as barrier shielding upon shroud activation which would allow you to be healed, use other utility skills etc etc. But many people shot down the idea simply because barrier is in such a bad state right now stocking up 15k life force and suddenly having that 15k shield drain away within 2-3 seconds would be pretty iffy i suppose but still i kinda do wish it was more of a barrier than a hp shield which could open up core and reaper to tons of more damage and possibly some defensive tools utility wise.

I never used the speed of shadows trait as i felt that staff marks were always such a good option up till now when they changed it to cleanse those conditions and grant swiftness i kind of fell if love with the new SoS. So i dont have a habitual need of a 7s cd on reentering shroud. The degen cut is tough but it is doable. It forces you to take reaper as a burst tool not a damage mitigation/semi burst tool. Getting stunned and pressing f1 then trying to counter attack from reaper shroud just wont work after these changes but if you out play your foes and use reapers to go in for the kill you will have a great time thanks to that bit of extra damage ;)

The degen is fast but if you run soul reaping and are making the most of the minor trait that gives bonus damage above 50% LF you usually have enough time to burst fairly well assuming you are aware of whats going on around you.

With shroud in such abysmal state, give us shroud utilities please. Like 2nd version of our current utility skills. Consumed conditions while in shroud should turn into something like consume health for a boost in LF. epidemic should turn into something like draw 1 random conditions from nearby foes and send to target. Blood is power turn into something like consume 1/2 of your might stacks for some health and life force, and converter 2 random conditions on you into boons. Plagueland gets turned into something like convert conditions of allies into boons, healing allies for some amount of HP and LF per pulse (scales with healing power) etc. Both versions of the utilities share the same cooldown.

@squallaus.8321 said:With shroud in such abysmal state, give us shroud utilities please. Like 2nd version of our current utility skills. Consumed conditions while in shroud should turn into something like consume health for a boost in LF. epidemic should turn into something like draw 1 random conditions from nearby foes and send to target. Blood is power turn into something like consume 1/2 of your might stacks for some health and life force, and converter 2 random conditions on you into boons. etc

hmh... sounds like a possibility to activelly to keep up shroud. not "build up, go in shroud, tank passively"... more like "go into shroud and actively maintain it by playing smart combos" (which is already a way to play - spectral armor, WH 5, spektral walk, well of corruption - but extremely situational and leaves you wihtout utilities if you use them to maintain shroud... which is also not a bad concept, it just happens to fail)

It wasn't meant to be a tank? I beg to differ. There was definitely a theme of 'unstoppable juggernaut' when it was released. That's been changed now with Cold Shoulder and the latest patch, but in the past, this was a thing.

Unfortunately, Anet couldn't figure out what they have wanted RS to do for the last 3 years, so it continues to change and screw people over. I hope this time, they stick to it ... if RS is THE necro power DPS build, we should set our expectations accordingly and hold Anet to that. I don't blame people for wanting to keep their old playstyle, considering that if your DPS is typically crap, you gravitate to other good things the class offers; I think this is where the patch fails (or at best, Anet hasn't completed their work) because we are simply seeing a trade of one thing for another. I hope Anet agrees that this is a class still very much in transition.

Arenanet described the reaper as 'inexorable'. But this had me thinking, I don't agree the reaper should be tanky, but it should be hard to disengage from, which is what the developers said originally about necromancers in general. I personally don't mind the hit in life force degen, but I think we should have greater access to stability, even resistance, for brief periods of time that makes the reaper deadly to be engaged against. We don't need to be tanky, we need to be hard to stop.

@kKagari.6804 said:...but it should be hard to disengage from...

tether... spellbreaker... ah wait, wrong spec, wrong class

@Aetatis.5418 said:

@kKagari.6804 said:...

but it should be hard to disengage from

...

Yeah, life's tough :(

Well i tried a Dm/Spite/Reaper build. I havent any problems with tanking stuff and i still do 12k crits. Sounds pretty brawlery to me.

Ran BM/Spite/Reaper with the new healing amulet. Now with Soul instead of Spite. Wells and Shouts ... Shroud does sometimes stop in like a crazy ex but it's still doable if you're quick and focused. I have always felt that if i'm getting focused im done, regardless. Stay squirrelly and you can do okay. (pvp)

I like the dmg buff to Reaper, but with the shorud decay it now takes a D/P Thief 5sec to kill us instead of 7sec.....

Just remove "water" from the elementalists. They would scream as loud as we right now.

Lets go. Play power core necro for 1v1s. Might work for the first fight, but i dont recommend doing more than 1 fight against each player.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAW3djM0QXNWcDO2A7NO6FKaXcGFr8Fm6WA20FQAA-jFSBABAcQAMTJIFPAAKV/BPdDdcEAua/R5XEXAASBExQL-w

1. Might-stack with staff marks and junk enemy.Passive give vulnerability
2. Use signet of spite3.Switch weapons -> you now have around 5 stacks might
3. Use bonefiend ability to entangle enemy
4. Use flesh golem ability
5. Press 5 + 4 on focus to get some more vulnerability on enemy
6. Go in shroud -> u get 5 extra might -> autoattack from shroud

If enemy has reflection, stabi, invunerability, teleport, invis or too many dodges, u are as good as dead doe

Oh wait. Every other class has a few of these things, so i guess you can only fight other necros.

I just love when somebody tell me how to play my game, other then the dev team ofc... Priceless...

@InsaneQR.7412 said:Well i tried a Dm/Spite/Reaper build. I havent any problems with tanking stuff and i still do 12k crits. Sounds pretty brawlery to me.

DM really ? Also try that elsewhere then caledon forest.

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@TheLastNobody.8319 said:It’s not the fact it lasts less, it’s the fact it makes you unable to absorb that much more damage. Shroud is the necromancer’s only and best form of damage mitigation, and the reason it lacks all the other damage mitigating tools other classes have, and in addition we loose our utilities. In PvP and WvW it will still be easy as hell to kite.

The damage buffs are fantastic, but if anything this moves necro away from being an Attrition Class. Anet needs to decide if shroud is something akin to photo forge (a resource based on demand transformation that offers a lot of power and damage), or a damage mitigation tool. It can’t be both.

Agree 100%, this has been a problem since core shroud, and what’s kept us behind. They have to give the core more damage mitigation via Signets, or the spectral skills, and not tying it to a damn trait to make those skills useful with shroud (looking at you SigofS, I will not praise them for what should be a default function.) Sorry if I made it seem like only a Reaper thing.

@intox.6347 said:

@InsaneQR.7412 said:Well i tried a Dm/Spite/Reaper build. I havent any problems with tanking stuff and i still do 12k crits. Sounds pretty brawlery to me.

Yes,the condi remove during shroud, increase toughness everytime i apply vuln or chill, reduce condi duration, and toughness convertet into power. More life force for mobs dying arround me and protection when leaving shroud.I ran through the maguuma jungle and had no issues at all. I am not using minions. I ran nearly full shout with astral armor.

While I am pretty disappointed that reaper had to lose some shroud uptime, the power budget made it necessary for it to receive such significant damage buffs, and this change has made it in to more of what it was originally intended to be. Going to miss the old guy though.

Plus, you can still be one of the most tanky burst characters in the game, grab valkyrie gear, death perception, and decimate defenses and you deal berserker level damage while having nearly the highest effective HP available to a necromancer. And the new signets trait helps quite a bit with uptime.