Holosmith and spvp advice.

I main an engineer and i enjoy reading the spvp forums. Maybe i am being a negative masochist but... It entertains me when people complain about engineer when they never actually played it.

The holosmith buffs can be compared to this - buffing warrior banners for spvp

As a holosmith main - even with those buffs targeted at low performing traits and skills - the powerful meta says i shouldn't use those traits and skills.

Holosmith is not that strong. They do good burst in a small window but a person who has pvp experience knows that when the engineer turns gold colored - expect the bursty rotation. Can counter that with some defensive play and dodges as well as kiting and playing defense. After the initial burst of the holosmith - then you can turn your strategy and start going offense.

NEVER try to go straight damage into a holosmith when he uses forge mode. Just play defensive until its all over and then counter attack. Or play a strong meta spec.

Also i know people who never touched engineer until holosmith came out.

You never played turrets. Kit swapping. Elixir gun mastery. Using water finishers. Classic engineer is not easy. With elixir gun and kits as well as "knowing" the skills.... Engineer can be quite powerful. But it requires actually reading your skills and knowing how they synergies and how to create effects with them.

Engineer is not an easy class. I know because i play one. Holosmith is much easier than classic engineer but not easier than spellbreaker scourge firebrand and mirage.

Honestly.... As a engineer main for years...i am sure if i sit down and read the other professions traits and skills (YOU SHOULD DO THIS IF YOU WANT TO BE MASTER OF SPVP) i am sure i could pilot other classes to great effect in spvp.

Reminds me of league of legends and items in league of legends. .....people do not like to read tooltips or skill tooltips and fully consciously understand how a skill or item works.

Most people follow metabattle builds but do you really "know"what your build is capable of ?I consider my self a conscious pvp tactician. Engineers "classic" use elixir gun because elixir gun is loaded with tons of useful effects combos and utility. Same with other kits and traits.

Holosmith is a bit simple but its effective. Still has counters and still is beatable.

I was reading on another thread about how an elementalist can't beat a holosmith. DUDE.... Do you read your skills ? You can swap to different attunements and have so much defensive offense cc utlity healing and damage. Elementalist have an overloaded powerful set of skills.

The problem i have is when skills are overloaded. Yes elixir gun is great. But so is spellbreaker dagger skills.

Any ways i just wanted to finish with - engineers are not easy to play and holosmith is a bit simpler but they are still not OP. If you are going to power game please read and get experience before you make assumptions. Some builds require more thought than others.

HONESTLY. Players will flock to the build that requires the least degree of conscious awareness. Nobody wants to be a pvp battle tactician. They just want to press a few buttons and win. Its a lot harder to actually learn and predict / adapt to spvp combat than it is to spam a few buttons and see results.

Actually. I think holosmith could be considered somewhat of a brain dead spec. There is never a time while in forge mode that you wouldn't want to press the right buttons on coldown for max burst.

But it's not holosmiths fault but a design flaw. The all inning as holosmith is pretty lackluster. Basically that's all holosmith can really do. Rush in do a ton of pressure and hope for a kill and then run away.

Scrapper would use elixir gun and hammer skills more carefully.

I don't hate holosmith but i'd like my decisions and adaption to matter more. Holosmith is basically a rather simple fighting style. Its not OP but its not impossible to predict or defend against.

I think holosmith is fine against other DPS specs, it's well designed and has a high skill cap.

But hoooly shit it's out of control against bunkers, I tried playing the bunker tempest build that used to be THE definitive bunker build for 2 years (and is supposdely better vs power than FB), and I had to blow every single defensive CD that exists against a holo just autoattacking me and in the end I still died.

The damage is absolutely overtuned if it doesn't have to play defensively. Revenant would be similar because of the strong quickness autos but here's the thing, they can be CCd with shocking auras and such, holo on the other hand has stability and a passive stunbreak so it just mows me down.

I think holosmith is more like an assassin then anything else. In group fights or against condi they instantly die. Their strategy is easy to know / read. They will go into forge ( or pop out of stealth) and burst tou down and if you survive...i guess rocket boots away.

I am not trying to get holosmith nerfed. But anet really kittened this time. Holosmith will be a balancing nightmare.

How do you balance a spec that has a simple combat strategy - to all in and be aggressive and do massive damage and then either die or run away ? Seems very hard to tune and balance right. I mean if you nerf it it becomes useless. If you buff it it becomes OP. holosmith sweet spot is very hard to balance.

I like holosmith. Its fun and easy. It feels good. I love power.

Rifle requires a tiny bit more strategy because you need to know and understand positioning and predict how to land the jump shot and blunderbuss shot.

I am not calling for holosmith nerfes. Just trying to bring discussion to the table.

@NotASmurf.1725 said:I think holosmith is fine against other DPS specs, it's well designed and has a high skill cap.

But hoooly kitten it's out of control against bunkers, I tried playing the bunker tempest build that used to be THE definitive bunker build for 2 years (and is supposdely better vs power than FB), and I had to blow every single defensive CD that exists against a holo just autoattacking me and in the end I still died.

The damage is absolutely overtuned if it doesn't have to play defensively. Revenant would be similar because of the strong quickness autos but here's the thing, they can be CCd with shocking auras and such, holo on the other hand has stability and a passive stunbreak so it just mows me down.

Well bunker builds are not that good for spvp. They bring stalemates and ruin games. I understand the best games are like world of warcraft arena - balanced aggression and turtle and play intelligently.

Also holosmiths do a window of burst and their sword auto attacks are not that strong. I don't know whay amulet you use but there are hardly any defensive amulets in the pvp lobby.

If you really want to play bunker try a guard. Guard has lots of stab and aegis as well as healing and some damage. Guards are tanky from boons and their healing.

Any ways just trying to clear up some confusion.

@Anthony.7630 said:

How do you balance a spec that has a simple combat strategy - to all in and be aggressive and do massive damage and then either die or run away ? Seems very hard to tune and balance right. I mean if you nerf it it becomes useless. If you buff it it becomes OP. holosmith sweet spot is very hard to balance.

That sounds balanced to me. They either die or run if their burst is unsuccessful. They don't have very good sustained damage and tend to take skills that allow them to survive after a failed engagement. The skill 5 knockdown is easy to avoid as long as they aren't coming from stealth.

Per another comment, holosmith as a hard counter to bunkers does not seem like an issue to me. I mean why shouldn't there be a hard counter to bunkers? Condi specs hard counter holo. And those condi specs typically have a hard counter of their own. The most annoying thing about a holo is their disengage but it's no better than your typical thief or mesmer and they are kind of filling the same role.

@NotASmurf.1725 said:I think holosmith is fine against other DPS specs, it's well designed and has a high skill cap.

But hoooly kitten it's out of control against bunkers, I tried playing the bunker tempest build that used to be THE definitive bunker build for 2 years (and is supposdely better vs power than FB), and I had to blow every single defensive CD that exists against a holo just autoattacking me and in the end I still died.

The damage is absolutely overtuned if it doesn't have to play defensively. Revenant would be similar because of the strong quickness autos but here's the thing, they can be CCd with shocking auras and such, holo on the other hand has stability and a passive stunbreak so it just mows me down.

The same tempest bunker build also tends to succumb to D/P thieves, if I recall. If you compare D/P thieves and holosmiths, there are a LOT of similarities. The primary difference is that the holosmith hits harder, but sacrifices the thief's mobility.

And to your point... yes, you are supposed to counter the holo with pressure. If you're playing purely defensively, you will likely do poorly against holo, as they will never be forced to abandon the fight.

@Anthony.7630 said:If you really want to play bunker try a guard. Guard has lots of stab and aegis as well as healing and some damage. Guards are tanky from boons and their healing.

Bunker firebrand is a big thing right now, and it's badly overtuned -- the boon spam they put out is so incredible that my necro completely focused on corrupting boons can't get rid of them all. I usually win in the end with my scourge, but it's really nasty against anything that can't strip boons.

Holosmith does not beat Firebrand 1v1.. Hard counter to bunkers is a bit of a laugh. They put bunkers under pressure to where they're vulnerable to a quick thief gank, but can't seal the deal themselves as it should.

In this hypothetical both teams are relying on getting a +1 first.