Positive Things About Mirage?

Ever since this class was announced, I have not seen one single thing positive about it other than "it might be good in PvP".Does anyone who has participated in any of the betas / stress tests have anything good to say about Mirage?

Uninterrupted StompsUninterrupted Heals... yeah basically uninterrupted actions... Utilities are good but really lacking imo, since Blink and Portal are already PvP staples that I don't see being replaced by anything else.

Stronger clones are okay in concept but in practice, they die too fast in PvP, and are still outclassed by Phantasms in PvE :pensive:

Main thing I've heard, in terms of positive feedback, has been "seems like a cool concept".

Beyond that, it's really hard to look at any aspect of Mirage and not find a fault with it. Some are just number tweaks, such as Jaunt's range. Most are more fundemental, such as Mirrors and Deception skills.

It's completely optional!

The new Elite (Jaunt) provides great in-combat mobility and also multiple leap finishers in succession.

But actually though, it was really shocking how unpleasant it was to play. I was really excited for it going into the demo weekend and came out with absolutely zero intention to play it. Literally every unique aspect of the class was either really bad, felt really bad, or both.

For example, keenlam just mentioned how jaunt provides great in-combat mobility. She's not wrong exactly, but the problem is that the 400 range ground target limitation feels incredibly clunky and throws you off every time you use it. It's practically a melee-range ground targeted teleport, and while this is mechanically useful, it's also incredibly unpleasant to use.

purple butterflies .... wait even base mesemer has these... sorry then do not have nothin'

Overall, mirage was a bit too clunky during beta test. I don't see it being better than chrono.

However, there are two things pretty strong.

1. Sword ambush skill. It is a 1/4s daze+leap+clone generation.
2. evasive mind that lets you remove condition and break stun by dodge.

I think the best chance to come up with a decent PvP build is to take advantage of these two things.

Elusive Mind is interesting in that it encourages you take a hit to avoid a burst.

I think that sums my opinions of Mirage. It has a lot of interesting things, but it itself is not interesting because it isn't cohesive in the interesting things it brings.

Not much good about thr Mirage sadly!But it did amuse me to use Sword Ambush leap, blink, the two new mobility utilitys and the new elite to jump around like a pig on fire! tho... that aint very usefull!

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

For example, keenlam just mentioned how jaunt provides great in-combat mobility. She's not wrong exactly, but the problem is that the 400 range ground target limitation feels incredibly clunky and throws you off every time you use it. It's practically a melee-range ground targeted teleport, and while this is mechanically useful, it's also incredibly unpleasant to use.

I agree, jaunt could really use to have the range upped to 600 or even 800 range, would actually make it a good skill. Could support hit and run bulilds, where you jump in and out of the action to setup shatter and burst! goes lovely hand in hand with the trait that spawns a clone when you have two up and use a deception skill

I like the idea behind Mirage. It fits the desert theme very nicely.

I was expecting something more along the lines of chrono but not focused on phantasms but clones. Meaning more clone uptime (and survivability), more clone damage etc.

I think they overdesigned the elite as it stands. Most of the ideas that went into Mirage (MIrrors, no dodge but invulerability) are unique unlike other elite specialisations which just got some copy paste abilities (Firebrand getting mantras for example) and fit the theme. Unfortunately no one made sure the gameplay matched the cool theme which is were we are at now.

I think with some adjustments here and there it will work. We'll have to wait and see.

On a side note, I was hoping for a slightly easier elite for mesmer. The class is already complex enough as is. It's fun to hear other raid members making fun of us mesmers everytime we discuss our abilities. This will get better with buildtemplates, but compared to say cPS who have to switch 1 skill at 3 bosses, mesmers have to memorize a new utility/elite skill setup almost per boss (not to mention inbetween events). Then again core power mesmer is a lot of fun in open world atm and condition chrono is near indestructible in open world pve (even more so with traiblazer gear), once we have build templates I'll be able to utilise those more often.

I like that they are going for the playstyle I always wanted to have with mesmers, where I try to fool the enemy by trying to be the clone.It only worked in beta pre-vanilla launch where people went after your clones, it was so much fun :) It will probably still be a noob check, but I hope that if I learn to master it hopefully the veterans will be fooled too :) At least I will try my best, and I will have fun trying =)

@pinkglow.3429 said:I like that they are going for the playstyle I always wanted to have with mesmers, where I try to fool the enemy by trying to be the clone.It only worked in beta pre-vanilla launch where people went after your clones, it was so much fun :) It will probably still be a noob check, but I hope that if I learn to master it hopefully the veterans will be fooled too :) At least I will try my best, and I will have fun trying =)

This is exactly why I like Mirage more than Chrono. You feel like a magician.

It has positives, but all is vain.

We get Mobility, and a bit more doge. But our out put is no different than core Mesmer, which is pretty bad.Except maybe PvE is okay now cuz Phantasmal force, but even so Chrono does the same and offers more to a group.

I guess open world we can drop phants and kite better now, but that doesn't accomplish anything for the main end game rewarding parts of content.

Maybe Havoc in WvW will be fun? Maybe Soloing bosses will be more fun?

PvP will have uninterrupted actions that'll be cool, but apart from stomps it makes little difference other than saying you don't need to actively cover your phant summons and heal, cuz you can just doge. But phant summons shouldn't need to be covered as much as they are in the first place so lol.

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:But actually though, it was really shocking how unpleasant it was to play. I was really excited for it going into the demo weekend and came out with absolutely zero intention to play it. Literally every unique aspect of the class was either really bad, felt really bad, or both.

For example, keenlam just mentioned how jaunt provides great in-combat mobility. She's not wrong exactly, but the problem is that the 400 range ground target limitation feels incredibly clunky and throws you off every time you use it. It's practically a melee-range ground targeted teleport, and while this is mechanically useful, it's also incredibly unpleasant to use.

Yeah. I like the idea of the Mirage. Axe is exactly the weapon I'd choose. Deceptions are the utility type I would have chosen. But nothing about it actually ended up interesting or fun to play.

I've mentioned before on the old forum that while deception skills aren't particularly well defined on the thief 3/6 straight up provide stealth to you. A fourth provides access to stealth through blasting powder. The other two are Thieves Guild, which was kind of shoehorned into be a deception skill. And Shadowstep which is a shadowstep, but it does have a "deceptive" Juke element by letting you blink back towards you original position.

This makes sense and fits thematically as Thieves are all about making someone think nothing is there when there really is.

Memsers use deceptions to make enemies thing something is really there when it isn't, or that something is has a radically different appearance from it's true form.

Instead Mirage deceptions are three mediocre shadowsteps, a condition attack and a mediocre evade. None of them are interesting or particularly fun.

I was interested in the Mirage as it fits my Mesmer's theme perfectly, something that the Chronomancer never did... and I will still be using Mirage on her... however I'm only intending to use it for the ambushes and ability to retarget illusions. The rest of the spec, from what I saw in the demo weekend, is quite disappointing...

This is why i like Mirage.

@zealex.9410 said:This is why i like Mirage.

It's by no means stronger than chrono and i dought it will ever be but kitten i had fun with it. Maybe with a few nerfs to chrono and a feww buffs to mirage it can find its place of power.

Even in a thread wich is named: positive things about mirage you find a way to put in some demands for nerfs to chrono. Wow.

The fact that people are unhappy about mirage due to its clunkiness and not due to it being less powerful than chrono doesn't even enter your mind or understanding. Lucky enough we now have a down vote feature. Let's see how long your unproductive mesmer hate will last in these new forums.

EDIT: even the video you linked has the line:"I had a blast playing mirage this weekend, but it kind of was veeeery clunky." in its description.

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@zealex.9410 said:This is why i like Mirage.

It's by no means stronger than chrono and i dought it will ever be but kitten i had fun with it. Maybe with a few nerfs to chrono and a feww buffs to mirage it can find its place of power.

Aha ok? Mirage is clunky with some of its mechanics that is true. My post wasnt about nerfing chrono it was about why i enjoy mirage. The only reason i talked about any possible chrono nerfs is to make it easier for mirage to be on a same footing with chrono in pvp or wvw not out of any imaginary hate u think i have for chrono. Let alone mesmer.

@zealex.9410 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@zealex.9410 said:This is why i like Mirage.

It's by no means stronger than chrono and i dought it will ever be but kitten i had fun with it. Maybe with a few nerfs to chrono and a feww buffs to mirage it can find its place of power.

The thread is called POSITIV THINGS ABOUT MIRAGE.

It has nothing to do with balance or chrono at all. Yet you find a way to ask for mesmer/chrono nerfs.

You wrote 3 sentences and one of them was literally: Maybe with a few nerfs to chrono and a feww buffs to mirage it can find its place of power.

How is that in any way a rational or healthy train of thought?

Getting off topic myself, I posted my reasons for why I like Mirage further up.

I like the change of pace.

Chrono is so stale right now with the monotone brainless shatter spam, it's nice to have a spec that mixes weapon attacks (ambush) and shatters as well as trying to go for the thematic gameplay of mind tricks and deception.

I love axe as a weapon choice, I love the visual effects, I even love some of the sound effects (although some need reworking, eg Imaginary Axes...) and I love Infinite Horizon because it's fun to play with.

I want and intend to move completely to Mirage because I liked what I played with enough to prefer it over the gameplay of Chrono as it seems it could provide more dimensions of play.

I'm hopeful that Anet will fix it up sufficiently, if not all by next week then certainly in the next couple of months to make mirage a strong spec that is worth playing over chrono (also incentivising further pof sales).

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@zealex.9410 said:This is why i like Mirage.

It's by no means stronger than chrono and i dought it will ever be but kitten i had fun with it. Maybe with a few nerfs to chrono and a feww buffs to mirage it can find its place of power.

It was 1 sentence u chose to ta take from.

I dont have much positive to say about it one weapon with three skills cant even interchange skills to power or condi replacements on the weapon set, like 4 new utilities that dont look great and require a traitline that has one good use (dodge cc) and the one class that could use an overhaul and benefit from having its f skills changed into something else is the one class thats remaining the same having to use clones and shatter them when a power build already doesnt support that gameplay very well like gs+sw/torch youre not a clone factory and would benefit from some kind of scourge/reaper makeover

I don't understand why u guys choose to engage with Zealex, his stance on mirage is already well known. He's advocating for no changes and that is a laughable stance since Anet always make changes, moreso if an elite spec is broken and unpopular.