Scourge might have a shot at raids

This whole barrier thing ...it might work better then expected. Instead of thinking of it as a defense mechanic think of it as offensive one - by keeping allies hp relatively unharmed it will greatly help in letting them keep the "above 90% hp" condition for strongest foods (writs), runes of the scholar and some damaging traits. In this quite indirect way necro could be a damage boost to allies.

Now if we had an expertise boost trait to share with allies, so they don't all go condi duration food on us....

So i was told by a few people to not play necro for raids and some were even mean enough and super beligerent about it for some reason, just because i wanted to play a raiding necro.

I was told we are only wanted for 2 raids, so with scourges barrier spam and condi corrupt 2 will it be enough?

Its possible staff and or our single target dps will have to be buffed to make us wanted.I wonder how they will do it:They might need to buff staff or scepter.

but there are better means to keep people above 90%.

The small damaging pulses and such can easily be healed through by your typical druid without anyone dropping below 90%. The actual heavy hitting mechanics damage generally hits hard enough to 1-bang your barrier and still drop people below 90%.

Besides things like aegis from guards, and distort from mesmers is far better at keeping people above 90% than any barriers ever will be.

Barriers are NICE, but they aren't Distortion or Aegis. Their big advantage is that they can be repeatedly applied in order to soak damage. They're a new (to this game) repeatable AoE support buff, which is awesome, but I don't see it being ideal for keeping people above 90%.

I see Barriers as just being able to take the edge off pressure damage, though not being enough to help with spikes (save Desert Shroud). May be able to let a Druid swap out a piece of two of Healing Power gear for something with more damage, but I don't see it having any bigger impact than that in raids.

Would a "healing" Barrier+Well Necro be so strange? Keep the big hits away with Barrier and heal your party up with Wells, Lifesteal or Regen.

@Nyel.1843 said:Would a "healing" Barrier+Well Necro be so strange? Keep the big hits away with Barrier and heal your party up with Wells, Lifesteal or Regen.

There's no "healer" role in raids. There's "Druid" role, which offers damage buff, another damage buff, and healing exactly in that order.

As it stands now, Scourge will be unwanted in raids. Unless we manage to shit out enough might. And even that probably won't be enougth.

Scourge will likely be fine from a pure condi DPS standpoint. Maybe not top of the meta leaderboards, but viable. They'll offer condi cleanse and barrier, which will have value even if you don't trait for it. No need for ice fields to achieve competence, either.

@mygamingid.5816 said:Scourge will likely be fine from a pure condi DPS standpoint. Maybe not top of the meta leaderboards, but viable. They'll offer condi cleanse and barrier, which will have value even if you don't trait for it. No need for ice fields to achieve competence, either.

While Scourge burst is crazy, due to life force generation, their dps is less than current condi reaper. Since you either have to swap to dagger mainhand for LF and lose dps from sceptre, or stay on sceptre and have limited shade skill usage.

Barriers will not be worth much unless the mechanic is changed a lot. The mobility will have some value but, again, will have limits.

Friday will be the decider.

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@mygamingid.5816 said:Scourge will likely be fine from a pure condi DPS standpoint. Maybe not top of the meta leaderboards, but viable. They'll offer condi cleanse and barrier, which will have value even if you don't trait for it. No need for ice fields to achieve competence, either.

So how were you able to test their DPS already? We haven't had access to the training golems with new Elites yet.

Also, even if it does a bit less, it will end up being more overall, because Ice Fields won't be required. Condi Reaper does 33k while abusing Ice Fields. If Condi Scourge can do 30k-31k, then it's fine.

Even without whirl finishers in its ice field, Executioner's Scythe still deals a massive number of bleeds. Add on Suffer and Chilling Nova, and it's not looking good for Scourge managing to beat it out without high usage of the Shades. Which Scepter doesn't allow.

Also, Condi Reaper is overall undesired because the total DPS even abusing the ice field is lower than virtually all other DPS builds. If Scourge pulls even less than the optimal case Reaper, then why would anyone want it?

Remember: even without comboing on the Ice field, the reaper is still usually getting decent DPS out of its whirl finishers due to high Fire field uptimes.

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:Even without whirl finishers in its ice field, Executioner's Scythe still deals a massive number of bleeds. Add on Suffer and Chilling Nova, and it's not looking good for Scourge managing to beat it out without high usage of the kitten. Which Scepter doesn't allow.

Also, Condi Reaper is overall undesired because the total DPS even abusing the ice field is lower than virtually all other DPS builds. If Scourge pulls even less than the optimal case Reaper, then why would anyone want it?

Remember: even without comboing on the Ice field, the reaper is still usually getting decent DPS out of its whirl finishers due to high Fire field uptimes.

At least Scourge will be better than Reaper in Fractals. :V Fractals has lots of AoE, Boons to corrupt, and quicker fights.

I really hate how a Profession's status is chosen just over how they perform in Raids now. It's been proven you don't need Meta and mirror comps. It's like people just look at benchmarks, then say this profession sucks automatically. Yeah you can give the whole paragraph about how Reaper gives no good or unique buffs, etc. I just think people take this stuff to seriously. Raiding is just one small part of the game.

@Kam.4092 said:Also, even if it does a bit less, it will end up being more overall, because Ice Fields won't be required. Condi Reaper does 33k while abusing Ice Fields. If Condi Scourge can do 30k-31k, then it's fine.

If Scourge can do 25k, it's ahead of Reaper without 100% ice field uptime.

@Kam.4092 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@mygamingid.5816 said:Scourge will likely be fine from a pure condi DPS standpoint. Maybe not top of the meta leaderboards, but viable. They'll offer condi cleanse and barrier, which will have value even if you don't trait for it. No need for ice fields to achieve competence, either.

Condi Reaper doesn't abuse Ice Fields. Condi Reaper RELIES on ice fields. It doesn't have nearly enough DPS without them.

@Kam.4092 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:Even without whirl finishers in its ice field, Executioner's Scythe still deals a massive number of bleeds. Add on Suffer and Chilling Nova, and it's not looking good for Scourge managing to beat it out without high usage of the kitten. Which Scepter doesn't allow.

Also, Condi Reaper is overall undesired because the total DPS even abusing the ice field is lower than virtually all other DPS builds. If Scourge pulls even less than the optimal case Reaper, then why would

anyone

want it?

Remember: even without comboing on the Ice field, the reaper is still usually getting decent DPS out of its whirl finishers due to high Fire field uptimes.

Do you Raid? If so, do you Raid on your necro? If you don't Raid, why don't you?

It is just shitty when an entire profession is not welcome in Raids due to poor DPS and offering nothing to make up for it.

@Kinch.6490 said:

@Kam.4092 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:Even without whirl finishers in its ice field, Executioner's Scythe still deals a massive number of bleeds. Add on Suffer and Chilling Nova, and it's not looking good for Scourge managing to beat it out without high usage of the kitten. Which Scepter doesn't allow.

Also, Condi Reaper is overall undesired because the total DPS even abusing the ice field is lower than virtually all other DPS builds. If Scourge pulls even less than the optimal case Reaper, then why would

anyone

want it?

Remember: even without comboing on the Ice field, the reaper is still usually getting decent DPS out of its whirl finishers due to high Fire field uptimes.

I've done one encounter to unlock Masteries. It was Escort. I did this before I made, and decided to main my Necro. I've tried raiding in the past on my Guardian, I found it boring waiting around. I also didn't want to make a time commitment.

My views on raiding are meh now, because I raided a tight schedule in WoW for 7ish years. I quit mid MoP. I was raiding 3-5 nights a week 3-5 hours a night. The reason I don't raid in GW2 is mainly due to the word Raid just making me go ugh now.

Even if Necro was top tier, and the highest DPS in game for Raids, I wouldn't Raid. I just got burnt out from WoW raiding.

I mainly do open world PvE, Fractals, Dungeons, PvP, and WvW. I do everything but Raid basically.

To me I just want to know the class I play does ok. It just sucks, because it impacts a class as a whole when people think it's crap. Necromancer is great in all game modes but Raids, yet everyone only judges them with how they do in Raids.

I want to see Scourge in the Raid Meta, but even if it's not, it will still be great in other game modes.

I personally think it will be fine in Raids. I may be wrong come next weekend, but we'll see.

Either way I'm really hyped for Scourge and Path of Fire :)

@Kam.4092 said:

@Kinch.6490 said:

@Kam.4092 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:Even without whirl finishers in its ice field, Executioner's Scythe still deals a massive number of bleeds. Add on Suffer and Chilling Nova, and it's not looking good for Scourge managing to beat it out without high usage of the kitten. Which Scepter doesn't allow.

Also, Condi Reaper is overall undesired because the total DPS even abusing the ice field is lower than virtually all other DPS builds. If Scourge pulls even less than the optimal case Reaper, then why would

anyone

want it?

Remember: even without comboing on the Ice field, the reaper is still usually getting decent DPS out of its whirl finishers due to high Fire field uptimes.

The thing is that there are plenty of ways to buff their performance in Raids while not requiring ANY nerfs to the profession. Adding conditions to MH Dagger auto is one of them. Revamping Staff auto is another alternative (Staff auto generally isn't used in WvW, and Staff generally isn't used anywhere else... except maybe PvP... but, again, not auto).

@Kam.4092 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:Even without whirl finishers in its ice field, Executioner's Scythe still deals a massive number of bleeds. Add on Suffer and Chilling Nova, and it's not looking good for Scourge managing to beat it out without high usage of the kitten. Which Scepter doesn't allow.

Also, Condi Reaper is overall undesired because the total DPS even abusing the ice field is lower than virtually all other DPS builds. If Scourge pulls even less than the optimal case Reaper, then why would

anyone

want it?

Remember: even without comboing on the Ice field, the reaper is still usually getting decent DPS out of its whirl finishers due to high Fire field uptimes.

You don't need meta comps or to run a thief in spvp either, but that doesn't mean you're being optimal. It's your choice to be suboptimal, and most people don't want that choice.

@Zenith.7301 said:

@Kam.4092 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:Even without whirl finishers in its ice field, Executioner's Scythe still deals a massive number of bleeds. Add on Suffer and Chilling Nova, and it's not looking good for Scourge managing to beat it out without high usage of the kitten. Which Scepter doesn't allow.

Also, Condi Reaper is overall undesired because the total DPS even abusing the ice field is lower than virtually all other DPS builds. If Scourge pulls even less than the optimal case Reaper, then why would

anyone

want it?

Remember: even without comboing on the Ice field, the reaper is still usually getting decent DPS out of its whirl finishers due to high Fire field uptimes.

So I guess just by playing a Necro I'm suboptimal :D

@Kinch.6490 said:

@Kam.4092 said:

@Kinch.6490 said:

@Kam.4092 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:Even without whirl finishers in its ice field, Executioner's Scythe still deals a massive number of bleeds. Add on Suffer and Chilling Nova, and it's not looking good for Scourge managing to beat it out without high usage of the kitten. Which Scepter doesn't allow.

Also, Condi Reaper is overall undesired because the total DPS even abusing the ice field is lower than virtually all other DPS builds. If Scourge pulls even less than the optimal case Reaper, then why would

anyone

want it?

Remember: even without comboing on the Ice field, the reaper is still usually getting decent DPS out of its whirl finishers due to high Fire field uptimes.

Yeah, me and others have talked a lot about adding Bleeding to Main Hand Dagger auto attack. Staff auto attack can be used on Scourge in high mob Fractals. The best setup is still going to be Scepter/Dagger and Dagger/Torch, or Scepter/Torch and Staff in some Fractals. I just wish the auto on Staff was faster, and did a Bleed or Poison.

There will be a new Raid though too. I'm expecting maybe some are underestimating the strength of Barrier.

@Kam.4092 said:There will be a new Raid though too. I'm expecting maybe some are underestimating the strength of Barrier.

Maybe at least one encounter will have a % based, non-distortable, protection ignoring and un-evadable mechanic that equate to a 101% total health damage spike.

@Demoria.6745 said:

@Kam.4092 said:There will be a new Raid though too. I'm expecting maybe some are underestimating the strength of Barrier.

Would that work though? Scourge is the only prof that can apply Barrier (to others) and therefore Scourge would be a must. Has ANet developed raids where specific profs are a must? (And I am not talking about "DPS must")

I think Barrier can be used, it just needs to be properly tested.

@Kinch.6490 said:The thing is that there are plenty of ways to buff their performance in Raids while not requiring ANY nerfs to the profession. Adding conditions to MH Dagger auto is one of them. Revamping Staff auto is another alternative (Staff auto generally isn't used in WvW, and Staff generally isn't used anywhere else... except maybe PvP... but, again, not auto).

Your "solutions" are wrong.

Adding conditions on dagger auto only boost scourge condi damages and revamping staff wouldn't change anything. Come on you even dare to say that staff ain't used in WvW. Staff is used in a lot of area be it WvW, PvP or PvE, it's just that it's skills design feel a bit bland and the damages will never be optimal due to it's nature as a utility weapon.

You want to open up the door of the PvE high end group content? Honestly, that's pretty easy and have nothing to do with weapon. You just need to adapt a few traits to PvE.Spite:

• Unholy fervor: reduce axe cool down by 20%. When a foe have more than 15 vuln stacks, deal 10% more damage to this foe. (bonus damage apply to all skills instead of just axe skills. PvE wise you are supposed to always benefit from the damage boost, PvP wise it's balanced.)
• Rending shroud: reduce your foe toughness when you are in shroud. (That's the most needed unique party dps boost that the necromancer badly need to have a place in high end PvE group content. A debuff that go beyond vulnerability)

The reason why you ask for dagger and staff change is because you fear to starve LF. Logically if anet were to answer you they would say: "you got spectral skills for that". I agree that it wouldn't be a satisfying answer but I believe that it is a balanced answer.