A Message About the Mount Adoption License - Page 28 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

A Message About the Mount Adoption License

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  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 21, 2017

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    The pack we got today in gemstore has been created and datamined around mountgate episode so it was already set in stone.

    Nope. they could have held back on it and changed it into some non-rng method. While in the case of adoption licenses they could try to defend themselves with "we can't change anything, because people have already bought some", in this case there was no such problem at all preventing them from acting. It's just one more proof that they don't really "understand players' concern" (or don't care about them). And that they do not consider the lootbox system to be something wrong, and DO plan on using it still. Which, obviously, makes the whole MO's post completely empty, devoid of any meaning.

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    Let me ask you a question, if they didn't allow you to use cash to buy the license, but instead require you to pay gold for it, but use the exact same system as we have now. Would you be happy with it?

    Yes, that would be a way to fix the problem. The main form of contention was always RNG use for gemshop-bought goods. Depending on price i might not end too happy about it, but i wouldn't be so against it either. Remember, that there's no such big outrage against RNG in mob drops and other in-game rewards. It's only when RL cash gets involved that it becomes a serious problem.

    There are many ways Anet might have decided to mitigate the mess they've made. What they've decided on, however, was continuing as if nothing has happened, feeling that their system was so good that it didn't need any adjustments at all. And that is what makes their decison worse than EA's in this case.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Someone (a few of them here) has already said this and I'd like to put my voice to it:
    Why don't they put those skins in groupings (i.e "Raptor" category where you get only one of those raptor skins) for, say 600 gems per pop and individual skins for 800 gems?
    That way they still suck the gold out of the economy and earn money and players have a definite option for whatever they want to purchase.
    Anet saves face (a bit) and players are happy, what would be wrong with that?

    Regards.

  • @JanHermann.2436 said:
    Someone (a few of them here) has already said this and I'd like to put my voice to it:
    Why don't they put those skins in groupings (i.e "Raptor" category where you get only one of those raptor skins) for, say 600 gems per pop and individual skins for 800 gems?
    That way they still suck the gold out of the economy and earn money and players have a definite option for whatever they want to purchase.
    Anet saves face (a bit) and players are happy, what would be wrong with that?

    Regards.

    I like this idea too, putting each type of skin in their own groupings and letting folk buy them that way. But I wished they had done something different overall.

    It would have been neat to have animals with these various skins (or call them different breeds) out there that you run across in the open world and you would get a hint that you had to find a particular breeder who is producing these animals. Once you found that person and let them know you were interested in that particular 'breed' they would have you accomplish some things for them in order to reserve an animal out of a litter. I would have no problem with doing things say over a week or two for a breeder so that he would let me buy that skin directly. (or give a voucher to take to a Black Lion Trader that would enable me to purchase the skin from the gem store) It would be a lot more fun and be more consistent with the world instead of blam! here are a bunch of flashy skins you can have this instant that have no relation to the story or Tyria. It would give even the plainer skins some meaning and and context and I think folk would find this a great incentive to collect all the skins.

  • Well things might be changing for the better in loot box practices. There is a youtuber named YongYea and in his video (Belgium & Hawaii Say EA's Loot Boxes ARE Gambling and Want Them Banned/Regulated) show's some promising things.

  • Fire X.5184Fire X.5184 Member ✭✭
    edited November 22, 2017

    @Turial.1293 said:
    Ah yes, more random choice skins added today.... Well played Anet, this is gonna diffuse the situation entirely and go over really well with everyone. There is currently plenty of things I want to buy in the gemstore but it won't be any RNG items, that is for kitten sure, but until mountgate has been given a serious overhaul and they stop treating players like cash cows then they won't be seeing a penny from me.

    They added more random skins? I don't seen anything that is random skins. Can you elaborate?

  • Shaaba.5672Shaaba.5672 Member ✭✭✭

    In the bundle, you can pick a type of weapon (dagger, sword, staff). Then you get a random BL skin for that weapon type.

  • @Shaaba.5672 said:
    In the bundle, you can pick a type of weapon (dagger, sword, staff). Then you get a random BL skin for that weapon type.

    So it's like the mount skin loot box but this time for weapons?

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aerinndis.2730 said:
    It would have been neat to have animals with these various skins (or call them different breeds) out there that you run across in the open world and you would get a hint that you had to find a particular breeder who is producing these animals. Once you found that person and let them know you were interested in that particular 'breed' they would have you accomplish some things for them in order to reserve an animal out of a litter. I would have no problem with doing things say over a week or two for a breeder so that he would let me buy that skin directly. (or give a voucher to take to a Black Lion Trader that would enable me to purchase the skin from the gem store) It would be a lot more fun and be more consistent with the world instead of blam! here are a bunch of flashy skins you can have this instant that have no relation to the story or Tyria. It would give even the plainer skins some meaning and and context and I think folk would find this a great incentive to collect all the skins.

    This idea would dis-incentivize people from spending cash for gems to get the skins, which I believe was Anet's entire focus. Sure, skins could have been locked behind quests or tasks, but then no one would have been reaching for their wallets to get them.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • @Fire X.5184 said:

    @Shaaba.5672 said:
    In the bundle, you can pick a type of weapon (dagger, sword, staff). Then you get a random BL skin for that weapon type.

    So it's like the mount skin loot box but this time for weapons?

    Yes, and no. I have seen nothing to say there is a system that ensures you won't get the same skin twice -- and the random box is part of a bundle which costs 3000 gems.

    Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- Santayana

  • @Elric Of Melnibone.4781 said:
    A lot of the skins are hardly different from the base skin and probably took very little work. It's like they just made a bunch of lame ones at low cost to throw in so they could boost their revenues by using RNG.

    Or, they designed multiple looks around the same frame when making the base mount skins in the first place, then decided to get some revenue out of them and added dye channels.

    Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- Santayana

  • @Djinn.9245 said:

    @Magnus Godrik.5841 said:

    @Djinn.9245 said:

    @Wildfang.3271 said:

    @Djinn.9245 said:

    @Devildoc.6721 said:

    @StaggerLee.6397 said:
    Is a mount skin being $5 really considered discounted?

    Unfortunately yes if you compare it to similar items in other MMO's. WoW sells $25 mount skins and it's a subscription game. ESO has mounts between $9-$30. LotRO between $10-$25.

    As other people have pointed out, WoW sells mounts for a premium price because they are extremely nice looking mounts, but the VAST majority of their mounts are available in-game. WoW has over 400 mounts and only sells 11 in their store! I went to their store and counted them. So there is literally no need for a player to purchase a mount from the store give the huge number of mounts available in the game.

    Well, just out of curiousity sake, why is it that WoW has so many mounts in game? Is it because :
    A. Blizzard is altruistic?
    B. Blizzard wants to have too many things for players to strive to achieve/get so that they will keep on subbing like a hamster on a wheel?
    C. (You come up with any good valid reason)

    For me, I think the answer is B.
    Now since GW2 doesn't have any sub system like WoW, does ANET benefit much from adding so many mount skins and only selling just a few like WoW? Would those sell enough to pay for server costs/employees' salaries? And ppl already do complain about the 2k gem prices for the warhound atm.
    Don't get me wrong, I would like ANET to add some mount skins to the game as well but wanting them to do everything similar to WoW is kinda silly considering the size of company and amount of assets.

    Who said anything about Blizzard being altruistic? I'm talking about Blizzard being SMART! Yes, they provided huge amounts of CONTENT in their game so players will continue to enjoy and play their game - what a concept! Will GW2 players continue to purchase gems when they've run out of content and don't play the game anymore?

    But that wasn't my point - my point was that it doesn't matter that WoW sells 11 mounts in their store for $25 each because the vast majority of players don't need to purchase those mounts - they have 400 other mounts that they can get. GW2 players don't have that choice. We have the base mounts and that's it. Then GW2 adds only these choices on the store:

    1600 gems: Spooky Mounts Pack (skins for all 5 mounts, no single skins available)
    2000 gems: Reforged Warhound (single Jackal skin)
    9600 gems: Mount Adoption License 30 Pack (only way to guarantee you get the skins you want)
    OR 400 gems per random Mount Adoption License. No way to simply get the skin you want.

    So what CHOICE do GW2 players have in getting mounts? You can CHOOSE the Spooky Mounts for 1600 gems (not anymore) or the Reforged Warhound for 2000 gems. That's it for being able to make an actual choice.

    You have the choice to use real world cash or grind in game gold and convert. A lot of mmo don't give you that option at all.

    I'm talking about getting mounts in-game vs. high-priced vs. gambling. Those are all the choices. In GW2 we have very few choices that are not gambling:
    -stick with basic mounts
    -overpriced mounts (only 1)

    Well actually you are getting them in game if you grind gold.

  • @Turial.1293 said:

    @Magnus Godrik.5841 said:
    Well actually you are getting them in game if you grind gold.

    You know that would be helpful, just grind 120g and convert to gems then choose the mount... Hang on, I see the problem, it's not the price, it's the RNG of it all. 120g can easily become 3000g just for this 'current' batch of mount skins. Do you think that is good value for money? Just because you can convert gold to gems does not make it a valid way of getting said skins because of the RNG.

    Everything in this game that is cool is rng. From the original precursor's to those sexy infusions. So yeah I feel it is a good value.

  • Why is everybody freaking out for some skins , when two months ago you didn't even have mounts. Just be grateful for the things you have and remember to have fun. The whole problem is based on vanity and not on real meaningfull content. So when I see a coment like "I seriously think of quiting the game, because of this" i really pity the fool.

  • @sprhavkdogi.9408 said:

    @Magnus Godrik.5841 said:
    Everything in this game that is cool is rng. From the original precursor's to those sexy infusions. So yeah I feel it is a good value.

    but the precursors aren't rng anymore, and even before that last time I checked I could buy the one I want off the trading post, can't do that with mount skins

    So your saying you can grind gold and buy it. That's my point in all this.

  • GreyWolf.8670GreyWolf.8670 Member ✭✭✭

    @Magnus Godrik.5841 said:

    @Turial.1293 said:

    @Magnus Godrik.5841 said:
    Well actually you are getting them in game if you grind gold.

    You know that would be helpful, just grind 120g and convert to gems then choose the mount... Hang on, I see the problem, it's not the price, it's the RNG of it all. 120g can easily become 3000g just for this 'current' batch of mount skins. Do you think that is good value for money? Just because you can convert gold to gems does not make it a valid way of getting said skins because of the RNG.

    Everything in this game that is cool is rng. From the original precursor's to those sexy infusions. So yeah I feel it is a good value.

    Yes, but it doesn't all involve real money. The only way to get a mount skin other than the base single-channel one is to involve cash in some way. (Those gems you traded your ground gold for were bought with a credit card at some point.)

  • @Kingkiller.9645 said:

    @Mike O Brien.4613 said:

    • We stand by the work our artists put into each skin

    You know the biggest problem I have with this system?
    Skins aren't unique. The Savannah Monitor and Coastal spiketail are essentially the exact same skin with slightly different colours.
    We can dye our mounts, so the colour of the skin is irrelevant.
    This goes for most mount skins, to be honest. Unless they have an animation, the biggest change is maybe different horns for the raptor, one slightly floppy ear for the springer, or a larger tail for the skimmer.

    Honestly...
    They need to think about paying the artists better if they feel that way.
    That shouldn't be something the customer has to deal with.
    There are better ways to handle that.

    Besides, even if this is the case, the whole point is to entice the majority of the customers.
    Make the artists make things that majority would enjoy.

  • I don't see any problem with skin RNG box being sold. This is a business and people at Anet need to make their living. You can acquire them by exchanging in-game gold to gem, just by playing the game. Compared to other MMORPG, where there is no way to change in-game currency to store currency, GW2 is already extremely graceful.

  • Since you can't see the problem: There are actually 2 major problems.
    1. The RNG box being in the gemstore ANet is basically telling you to gamble on them with real money. Sure, the gem conversion exists, but even those gems have a real money value and have been paid for by someone. Also exchanging gold is counter-intuitive. Most people will buy their gems with cash.
    2. There is no way to avoid the RNG. If you want the skin, you are forced to gamble for it.

    1. That's the whole point of a business, to maximize profit. No problem for me. I encourage people to spend cash on Anet when you can so the game development can continue. For those who can't afford, earn in-game gold and convert to gem; it is a slower process but you will get there eventually.
    2. Yes, that's the design. Since they guarantee no duplicate, you will also get your favorite skin eventually. Again, to maximize profit.

    Of course, every business who want to max their profit risk pissing off customer. They have their right to do that, I have my right not to buy that. For me (and me alone), I don't have a problem, don't convince me otherwise.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BunjiKugashira.9754 said:

    @Battledoll.1803 said:
    I don't see any problem with skin RNG box being sold. This is a business and people at Anet need to make their living. You can acquire them by exchanging in-game gold to gem, just by playing the game. Compared to other MMORPG, where there is no way to change in-game currency to store currency, GW2 is already extremely graceful.

    Anet, as any other good game developer, could very much make a living by selling items directly at a fair and affordable price. The RNG boxes are just extorting some extra money at the cost of consumer satisfaction.

    While you can aquire gems by exchanging gold for them, this is only possible if someone else sold their gems for gold. Every gem in the game has been paid for and gems from the exchange have even been taxed, so ANet earns even more for them. Other games just don't sell their ingame currency for real money because hyperinflation made their ingame currency worthless in the first place.

    Since you can't see the problem: There are actually 2 major problems.
    1. The RNG box being in the gemstore ANet is basically telling you to gamble on them with real money. Sure, the gem conversion exists, but even those gems have a real money value and have been paid for by someone. Also exchanging gold is counter-intuitive. Most people will buy their gems with cash.
    2. There is no way to avoid the RNG. If you want the skin, you are forced to gamble for it.

    Before you start with BLCs, yes they've always partially fulfilled the first problem and yes since 2017 (the elemental sword) they also fulfill the second problem. In their current state they deserve the same amount of protest as mount tickets. But the degrading of BLCs was a gradual process and the elemental sword wasn't as highly anticipated as mount skins, so the protests weren't as focused and didn't get any momentum.

    And no, not being able to unlock duplicates is not their saving grace. The chance for a specific skin will not go over 50% until the very last ticket. Subconsciously your brain tells you, that you already used x tickets so the desired skin has to come soon. This is sunk-cost-fallacy and is specifically designed to make you spend even more. This is not ANet being generous, it's the exact opposite. If duplicates were possible we would possibly be able to sell duplicates on the TP. This would remove the RNG factor for those who don't like RNG and would reduce the amount of RNG boxes sold.

    Based on what you said, BF2’s system was fine. The heroes could be earned by actually playing the game with the option to purchase those RNG loot boxes for a chance to bypass that.

  • my issue comes with the idea of the RNG covering all the different kinds of mounts, I used 3 of them and got 2 skimmer's and lastly a jackal, bought the gems with gold so no real wallet loss, but decided to stop there, because i hate skimmers, don't like the feel of them, and was very dissatisfied to see 2 of them pop up, i feel you would get more money (because that is literally all you cared about) in at least dividing the adoption licenses into the different mount kinds. I'm very discouraged and put off the idea of ever throwing my money at this kind of shady business practise when only one side of the transaction is guaranteed satisfaction. What kind of business is that, you should aspire to be like CD Projekt Red or at least be the mid point between EA Battlefront 2 and W3:TWH.

    The fact that EVERY mount is highlighted by:449934b93b7ff28ee4c764bb26222b84.png

    ultimately, you dissapoint and lose more people than you gain from it.

    i would have liked to have seen a couple mounts be aqquired from gameplay, seeing so many mounts when i recently came back to the game encouraged me for a few seconds. shame.

  • >

    It’s been a challenging but wonderful goal to support live development and Living World purely through optional microtransactions, and it’s your support that’s made that possible. Thank you.

    You might want to look the word micro up in a dictionary. And I have supported plenty by buying gliders and outfits but I feel incredibly stupid for even doing that now that you made it clear that was not enough and you rather go for those so called whales that bring in the big bucks. And I will never be a whale and spend my money rather on something else that is more worth it. I wished I knew all this before buying PoF. Was disappointed by Hot, now PoF...

  • I like the new system much better than the black lion chest and dye kit systems. I’ve purchased two adoption licenses so far and will buy more eventually. I’ve never purchased a black lion key or a dye kit and, unless the way they work changes radically, I never will. So, big improvement on the new random system. .

  • $100 loot boxes (but entirely optional) have been done, Anet were to slow to make this cash grab, oh well. Guess we will just have to stick with the fugly mounts for now.

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