Does this game feel rewarding?

So I've been thinking about the WoodenPotatoes video about the reaction to mounts. This thread is not about mounts specifically, but one thing he said is still resonating with me. This reaction is not just about mounts, but our frustration with other aspects of the game too. There is very little meaningful content that we can actively work towards. It all comes down to 'farm gold/buy gems and buy what you want'. (this got long, TLDR at the end)

I am not against the gem store. I appreciate that it exists and give people the chance to buy extras, players can exchange in game gold for gems and it supports the game in lieu of subs. I prefer this to sub based games. I also know that there are costs, as a player, to this kind of business model. Not everything can be earned purely though game play. I'm more than fine with that. Another aspect of this game that I appreciate is the shared loot aspect. I love not competing with others to tag mobs or nodes. I understand that makes the RNG for drops really harsh. While it doesn't always feel good, it's a price I am willing to pay for the cooperative nature of this game.

So those are a few things that this thread is not about. What it is about is the scarcity of systems that reward players for playing the game. Personally, I don't think that farming for gold in order to buy items off the TP or gem store is particularly engaging. The reason I keep playing is my guild. They are awesome and I always have a good time playing with these people. When there are few people on and we're not running events or just goofing off, I find myself wandering a bit aimlessly in game. I don't have anything specific to work towards. No, I don't have all achieves and collections, and that fills the gaps, but it's just that - filler.

There have been a few things in the game that I have wanted and been given a concrete path to get those items. The first thing that comes to mind is the Ambrite weapon collection. I loved, loved it and wanted them all. Yes, I was frustrated at the acquisition rate, but I had a goal I was working towards. When I completed it, it was one of the best moments for me in the game because I worked on it and achieved it and now I had all the weapons I needed to deck out my character in the look I wanted. I will never not use the Ambrite weapons on my warrior because I have a real emotional connection to those weapons. I think that the HoT maps also had a good path and long term goals to earn items in game. The specific currency gave me a sense of progression each time I completed an event or meta. While I may have issues with the way the metas were implemented, the currency and goals are not one of those issues. Raiding is another good system. When I was wiping over and over again, at least I got those few shards and seeing that number grow by even a little bit each time gave me a sense of accomplishment.

Sometimes I think about and miss WOW. Yeah, I'm kind of over it, but I played it for years and always had something to do because there were things in game to work towards. If I wanted a specific transmog item or toy, there was a specific boss I could kill to try and get it. The pet battle system, which I expected to hate, was really engaging and I would spend hours hunting them down. When I start to think about and miss that game, it's not specifically the game, but mainly that there are goals in the game that I never reached and it tugs at me that I could be working towards them. It's a stupid reason, but it's a real one.

TLDR: So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't think this game has many systems to keep people engaged in playing the game for rewards instead of looking for the most efficient way to make gold. That may be enough of a goal for some people, but it's not enough for everyone. I think there is plenty of room in the game for in-game only rewards instead of pushing everything to the gem store. I'd love to hear other's thoughts on the pros and cons of how things stand as they are.

This game has never felt rewarding to me, not from rewards that you supposedly earned anyway, I find killing people in WvW to be rewarding but that is in a different sense. I have said it many times before that I feel the rewards team are out of touch with their own game, what they consider rewarding is very far from actually being or feeling rewarding, and quite frankly I find it insulting most of the time.

Honestly don't know since I tried other MMOs but never stayed. I do think the good part is you can always get in game stuff through in game playing. As far as rewarding enough. IDK. But then again this is not a sub game. So even though it's not subbed, the grind really is same compared to other games. The only rewarding thing I wish is players who bought the game or expansion actually got more benefits then free players.

For example in eso you get unlimited mat bags. And extra 10 or 15 percent exp boosts per kill, or quest completion, etc. I don't wish we got those exact things. But I wish there was something added that make the free players HAVE to buy the game then choose not too. Know what I mean.

The game is fun and all, but it falls short of a lot of other aspects.

Although I can appreciate the games environment, it almost feels generic for some reason.

Once you hit 80, there's not much to do. You can't even roleplay in this game since the roleplaying community is almost nonexistant.

You can't make movies since the game lacks a model viewer, so machinima-themed material that isn't a walkthrough, guide, or simple gameplay footage is outta the question.

I hate to say it, but the only thing that's really kept me around is that this game is one of the more popular MMORPGs that's affordable, and for that, I'm thankful for.

Hey all,After this whole mount debacle i really think not allot of people have touched upon the core issue of this game, and it's not just the mount stuff that's pushing me more and more away from the game.

The core problem with the game imo is that less and less rewards are worth going for ingame. Path of fire has absolutely nothing worthwile to go for that you wouldn't have already gotten in your first playtrough. The expansion was great, but only when first playing trough it and discovering it. After that, it really feels like there is nothing to do.The ammount of gemstore skins is a real problem with the game, and as i said before it's better to spend an hour longer at work doing overtime and earning more money, then playing the actual game, when it comes to character progression. (and yes skins are character progression, it's the only progression we have in GW2.) The RNG in these skins may have caused this controversy, but they aren't the underlying problem.When asking veteran players what is worth going for in GW2, less and less people come up with a decent answer. Legendary weapons, sure, but that basicly forces me to grind old content. Make gold and convert it to gems? Sure, but that basicly makes me grind old content. Fractals? What for? It makes a bit of gold, sure, but that's it, there's been 2 fractal skin sets and a legendary backpack in there since they launched. Most people are done with that. They release new fractals but no updated rewards or anything new to go for. Ask people "Have you done the new fractal?" "Oh yeah it's cool" "How many times have you done it." "Oh ehm once."That's not the response you want to get out of the playerbase.Raiding is the only content in the game that has even introduced new skins on a regular basis, with about 11 weapon skins and 7 ish mini's added each raid release. Compare that to the gemstore, where new weapon skin sets are releases once or twice a month with black lion tickets. One weapon skin set is already more skins then an entire raid release. (yes you can buy them ingame but they are, at their core, gemstore weapons trough black lion keys and not earnable trough content, except the gold grind.)Living world episodes are basicly introducing 1 skin for the meta achievement, and then maybe a backpack or something else, wich you go for, finish, and then you are pretty much done with those maps. And that's fine for a living world episode. But this expansion honestly feels like a large living world episode, and that's not ok.

One person i engaged in a discussion with said fractals, raiding, getting legendaries, wvw, pvp, dungeons, exploring the maps, leveling alts are all content, so what are you talking about when you are saying there isn't any content. But that is old content, most veteran players have already done most of that. Granted pvp and WvW is still as fun as it used to be and that's good, but nothing he mentioned includes the new expansion.

Path of fire is just out and has already equaled the available armors in the expansion by number of outfits released after the expansion, at it hasn't even been 2 months. The weapons won't stay behind for long. Take the recently released sand weapon skins, those are perfectly themed to be a rare expansion reward. But they aren't, they are gemstore.

It's come to a point where i think Arenanet is cutting rewards out of the game to sell them to us in the gemstore. Or at least intentionally is putting less rewards in the game so we buy more gemstore stuff.

And there in lies the core problem. If you're a new player there is a ton to do in GW2, and a ton of stuff to go for. But if you're a veteran player that was waiting for the expansion to get new stuff to do and new rewards to go for, you are sitting here, a month and so after the expansion, not knowing what to do. Even in that long content drought after heart of thorns, at least heart of thorns had ways to keep us busy. Rewards and achievements worth going for, stuff to do. This expansion less then 2 months after it has put the game in a worse state the HoT ever did, and that's when they pile on tons and tons of things into the gemstore.

I've always said the collection system and achievement system in GW2 was one of it's biggest features and strengths, being able to chose and work towards your own goals and rewards. And when you look at path of fire, and how little this system was used. And how unrewarding most of it is. It kind of speaks for itself.

When i log into the game today, it's harder to come up with what to do then when the previous expansion was 9 months old and we were still waiting for the living world. And that is a major problem.

True words, i'll give an A+ for that.

I usually play 2-3 video games, so after I get my filled with my preferred contents at PoF, I only do daily's and then move to other games, Guild Wars have no Sub so it's not a problem to me. I bought GW2 in day 1 (I got the statue), but after a year, I quit, move to different games, and so much of life gets in the way. Last year I came back after my layoff and bought HoT, and start to get 2 Legendary, (which will make you do WvW and some PvPs even if I prefer PVE). I think the game is going to be okay even if players take hiatus from it, or quit. They designed it without Sub at the first place, they should not expect a constant traffic of players. I read that they use Gemstore to fund LW contents, so worst case if no funds was generated by the Gemstore, the next LW will be short or less in content (LW3 Flashpoint/1PathEnds comes in mind).

Don't lose sleep of it, If it fold move to a different game.

@Martin.4860 said:I usually play 2-3 video games, so after I get my filled with my preferred contents at PoF, I only do daily's and then move to other games, Guild Wars have no Sub so it's not a problem to me. I bought GW2 in day 1 (I got the statue), but after a year, I quit, move to different games, and so much of life gets in the way. Last year I came back after my layoff and bought HoT, and start to get 2 Legendary, (which will make you do WvW and some PvPs even if I prefer PVE). I think the game is going to be okay even if players take hiatus from it, or quit. They designed it without Sub at the first place, they should not expect a constant traffic of players. I read that they use Gemstore to fund LW contents, so worst case if no funds was generated by the Gemstore, the next LW will be short or less in content (LW3 Flashpoint/1PathEnds comes in mind).

Don't lose sleep of it, If it fold move to a different game.

I get that this is how some people like to play, and i'm not saying it's wrong, but this isn't a feeling you should be having 2 months after a so called "content-focussed" expansion. In terms of story and first time playing trough this expansion, it was better then HoT, but in terms or replayability it's seriously lacking. I don't play an mmo to treat it like a single player and then come back when the dlc comes out. If i want that i'd play single player games. I play an mmo because of the community and having fun with your guild. And Path of Fire has done nothing in that aspect. Raid teams are falling appart, guilds are becoming inactive. That's a real problem.

+1Pretty much what I'm saying for weeks now. PoF claims to be an expansion, but after all, it's just an expensive prologue for a new LS.Even when playing casually, may be 2x a week for 2-3 hours, one is done with the story, map completion, masteries, etc., within a few weeks, while offering low to none incentive to repeat any of that. And since most ppl tend to play a bit more than usual when something new hits, they're done even faster.So here we are, sitting with some new more or less balanced elite specs and a gimmicky feature called mounts.So it's no real surprise the outrage came up when they introduced this rng skin gambling, since it affected the only thing of PoF that somewhat persists.If everything that's left to do for veterans is playing fashion wars, ofc many get angry when this part gets gated behind rng and payment.So all in all OP is right- content drought is the real problem. If people were busy playing, they'd probably care less about this kind of cosmetic cash-grab.

I think of it as a balance between, is the content there to aid the cash shop or is the cash shop there to aid the content. I think recently this balance has tipped to far in one sides favour.

@Fox.3469 said:

@Martin.4860 said:I usually play 2-3 video games, so after I get my filled with my preferred contents at PoF, I only do daily's and then move to other games, Guild Wars have no Sub so it's not a problem to me. I bought GW2 in day 1 (I got the statue), but after a year, I quit, move to different games, and so much of life gets in the way. Last year I came back after my layoff and bought HoT, and start to get 2 Legendary, (which will make you do WvW and some PvPs even if I prefer PVE). I think the game is going to be okay even if players take hiatus from it, or quit. They designed it without Sub at the first place, they should not expect a constant traffic of players. I read that they use Gemstore to fund LW contents, so worst case if no funds was generated by the Gemstore, the next LW will be short or less in content (LW3 Flashpoint/1PathEnds comes in mind).

Don't lose sleep of it, If it fold move to a different game.

To me GW2 is not your typical MMO, you even pay it as a single player game, if you play any games right now, you will know that usual hours of play time is 40-60 hours, 40-50 USD/game so if you played it for more than that I think you had your money's worth for a single player priced game from GW2. I set my expectation in this game way from the start, the same with Guild Wars 1. I played WoW, FF11, Secret World, Lineage 2 and other Sub MMO, and it makes me feel I need to play a couple of hours daily because of the Monthly payments, but Guild Wars break that trend, and thats why I know I haven't played an MMO since then. I can quit now and wait for the next exp and I think the game will be fine (but Wintersday is coming so that ain't happening).

Also communities and Guilds can move from different Multiplayer games, my Guild Wars Guildmates moves to Guild Wars 2 after it gets too old.

While agree PoF seems lacking when it comes to fun meta events and long achievement chains (compared to HoT)...

The more stuff they put in the game, the less money they make. The older the game gets, the less money people will spend in it. Bank slots or filled. Bag space is already large. Most people might already be happy with their characters outfits and armor. Since it doesn't have a sub, it has to make up for it in other places. Unfortunately, that means RNG in the cash shop. Sure there are a FEW people who probably pump plenty of money into the game (I would bet the LARGE majority of players spend less than $10 a year on gems), but I guarantee cash shop spending has been trending down since the game's launch.

But hey! I'd rather have RNG and gem shop items and a game to play... than no game to play at all.

You know. A good method of cheap mounts is using existing models. And there's already a good set out there:Raptor : Mordrem CavalierSpringer : the leaked spider (yes, spiders jump)Skimmer : im thinking Juranda since they floatJackal : FernhoundGryffon : WyvernSince each of these are already fully animated models they should be easy to implement, and can individually be locked behind a collection that serves as a sink for whatever we have way too much of right now. That wouldve been karma until recently with the aurora and Orr collections.

There in lies the problem. In HOT, you were forced to become better both as an individual and in group content. However in POF it's too casual not intense enough, too easy for both gameplay and masteries. Mounts are not worth $30 and I could care less. We need more of what HOT and silverwastes offered, more group play and strategic gameplay. I still die quite a lot in HOT today but that's what makes it fun and challenging. Knowing I will be punished for doing stupid things. Group content is fun and does not require commitment like raids or dealing with elites in fractals. I will not buy POF until we have world events and group content and increased difficulty. I am not saying it needs to be harder than HOT but comparable. The story is skippable and not that great anyway so still not worth $30. Anet is at a crossroads. Either make large challenging expansions and charge $50-$60 or make small possibly skippable expansions like POF and make them faster. We need either one large expansion per year or two mini expansions. Anything slower than that is going to lose players through lack of interest. We have at least four more large areas on the map left and these should be filled in next three years or game is going to slowly die.

Honestly I always felt this game lacking in terms of rewards. Especially PoF felt like a kick in teeth to me because it doesn't really have much unique and cool to reward me with. HoT was better in that regard because it had a lot more unique rewards like standalone weapons which look really cool and are still to this day prestigious.

Nope. It stopped being rewarding after the Nov nerf to all drops and rewards I think back in 2012. I’m the only person left from the guild I was in after launch. I don’t play this for any type of reward. I’m playing until new mmos come out for the most part. Also this is the least social mmo I’ve played. My ESO guild actually talked and did things together. I play this as a solo game.

I feel rewarded when I make a legendary or get an infusion, but the only means of getting such is farming - and infusions aren't the cheapest of things. I'd like some questlines instead of collections that require just as much as the legendary to craft.

This is quite the topic.

Like the gold itself i think is a good reward. You can get it in several ways, but not several enough.

The dynamic events themselves give you a measly 3 silver something, wich is downright insulting. The karma is ok, but the silver is a bad joke. They should give more, like 30 silver.Dungeons should give 1 gold.

These are balance issues.

The gold is then used for other goals. Be it crafting ascended or legendary gear or some cosmetic purpose.

Now, the reason why this is like this is because GW2 is a B2P game. Anet is only getting your money from the box. But, it is also true that this model could be more encompassing. I am sure many would be willing to pay a subscription if they had access to all those cosmetics in-game, without all the gem fuss.

It's difficult to say how this can change because ultimately it depends on Anet's bottom line. What worries me about the recent mount controversy is that it may be desperation on Anet's part. I dislike lootboxes and gambling with a passion. But i do realise it allows games like GW2 and SWTOR, two MMO's i like, to stick around. So, i accept them better than in a AAA console game. But, i never take part in their purchase. If it allows the game i like to keep beeing supported, then so be it. But, some things on the Gem shop are insanely overpriced in this game. But even that is better than gambling.

The game is more about community than the shineys I get, we have a group lately that basically wants to turn GW2 into every other hyper competitive e-sport centric mmo, I just want to keep the amazing accepting community we have built, the Redditt crowds seem to want to tear that down now more than ever.

Every time there is something that is rewarding gold wise it gets nerfed. This is one of the issues that's making me down on the game. It's become to much of a grind to make gold in the game. Since the mount skin issue I haven't been doing much in the game besides the dailies and a bit of light farming. They still haven't properly addressed the leather issue either. Since the PoF release it's harder to make gold from selling materials.

I know some people get the rush of reward pleasure from gambling but I never do. I can't stand gambling because of an ex who gambled away money we didn't have. I prefer doing something active to get my reward fix; things like events or farming. For me the game is an escape from the grind of real life. If the game is becoming a grind and gambling fest then what's the point of playing?

Word OP!

Word!

@Drew.1865 said:Nope. It stopped being rewarding after the Nov nerf to all drops and rewards I think back in 2012. I’m the only person left from the guild I was in after launch. I don’t play this for any type of reward. I’m playing until new mmos come out for the most part. Also this is the least social mmo I’ve played. My ESO guild actually talked and did things together. I play this as a solo game.

My situation is similar. Most people I've used to play the game since the start left.With some of them we used to run dungeons but then dungeons were nerfed.With the rest we used to run fractals (low - mid levels) but they are just gold grind.I'm playing it as a single player game now. Login > Daily > Living story if any > Logout.

About the rewards.It's nice that we can get Precursor from killing lvl 1 bunny but I've played the game 5+ years and I've seen 0 precursors.In most traditional MMORPGs atleast you know what mob you need to kill to get the item to drop and usually after (x kills) the items drops.

P.S. I'm fine with ANET adding so many items to the gem store. I just want the little items added to the game not being locked behind a gold grind.

I mentioned this in a wvw thread - but it ties to this point as well...

Bragging rights, vs Necessity

How I look matters to me, because it's a visual representation of what I've achieved.How I play matters to me because I want a fair fight / challenge to give my achievement real value.

In more detail, it's rewarding to walk through a crowd of people wearing gear that validates your expertise in x part of the game - ie - warbringer but just something that shows "I know what i'm saying"

How I play is what validates what I get..so I "need" certain things that help me gain my bragging rights items - in this sense things like perma axes, picks, and sickles, fall under the necessity category - buying these things doesn't invalidate the expertise in getting the "Bragging rights" items.

Point being, it's all convoluted, what's there to be proud about other than I bought the latest skin ? - where's the roleplay in how you got that amazing greatsword skin ?

the game is just code, and in old school psychology of gaming, you want to be recognized as a great player. Otherwise, why even play an mmo over and over and over ?

this point is obscured in the game at the moment - less the few legendaries that can't be bought.

What's satisfying about getting something anyone can get ? I'm just another person in town when I walk around.

But in meta pve events, having a war bringer tells people you have much experience in being a team player - and that's satisfying when you have random players following your lead to win an event - that's a truly "Rewarding feeling"

My point is, it would be nice if anet made more bragging rights type items "That can't be bought" that mean something to how you are perceived in the game. anyone can buy a commanders tag - big deal - not everyone can get that stupid little blue check mark on twitter tho, so it is a big deal ( unfortunately )

Following someone flying a flaming griffon, just means you are following someone that probably spent 120 dollars on the skins...that has nothing to do with a great rpg adventure with an experienced player. Nice bird bro, later. ...That's not, OMG, I met That famous fighter on the flying dragon only people who survive "X" get, He actually stopped to res me!!

anyways, not saying this to dis the current set up, just sharing an insight I hope anet finds helpful from someone that's been playing rpg's ever since it became a thing.

After everyone's been there and done that, reputations matter to continue the culture.

when I see someone with the "A god walking among mortals" title, I actually respect it and stay close to those players in meta events, because I recognize the experience needed in gw to get it. - this should be more prominent to make the game more personally rewarding.

Buying things, be it with gold or gems, is literally the least satisfying/rewarding thing for me. Grinding for rare drops is the second least satisfying thing, because I'm basically not "loot-motivated" at all. The one exception are skins that match my mental image of what my character should be, but sadly GW2 doesn't offer too much there because of all the gendered armors/outfits and the lack of sylvari- and charr-themed items in an endless sea of human stuff this, human stuff that. So for me, satisfaction comes from other things, which is mainly delving into a persistent world. I really enjoy a lot of the lore, but the story writing has been lacking overall, especially with regard to allowing the player character to actually be a character, nevermind the protagonist. While PoF was an improvement over LS3 in that context, that's kinda damning with faint praise because of how much I loathed most of the main arcs and characters of LS3.

So it's not been too satisfying, and I mainly come back because of that stupid MMO-itch I have a hard time shaking off. The "joy of movement" is a big thing for me -- both gliders (I love the extra gliding skills in Bloodstone Fen) and mounts are still very enjoyable. Maybe it's weird, but in a game and genre that at the end of the day is all about mass-murdering anything that moves, I do find it oddly "rewarding" to deftly avoid combat most of the time. I get a kick out of jumping off my mount, quickly harvesting that flax, and jumping on again juuuust before the enemies reach me, smirking as I dash off again. I like gathering and exploring, and in theory I like crafting too, but it's so much of a grind that it's rarely actually fun.

What would make the game more rewarding for me? A better story, though I know "better" is in the eye of the beholder. I want "this is my story" back and a sense of being a sylvari, a charr, whatever, not just a generic story vehicle without a past or a culture or actual friends who actually show concern and support for me once in a while instead of just expecting me to fawn over their own drama-llamas. The Caladbolg mini-episode beat the pants off all the LS seasons combined for me, simply because there were some small snippets of acknowledgement that my characters were actually sylvari and not just a faceless blob (and because the "biconics" weren't in it).

I'd also definitely like to see some long-term and "medium-term" goals that are single-player friendly and have nothing whatsoever to do with the gemstore or with grinding gold or hoping for some ridiculously rare drop like those named Sunspear weapons. I liked the griffon collection, the price tag aside, because it was all about doing activities related to and learning about the thing I was working towards. Maybe I'd enjoy making a legendary as a long-term goal, but pretty much the only one I actually like is Nevermore, and I don't have anyone who'd actually use that, plus I'd go broke thrice over.

Bit of a ramble there.

It's special, it fell rewarding after Economizing ton of gold and can finally buy an outfit on Trading post or cultural armors. But not rewarding for me regarding spent time in game, I'm here since 5 years and still haven't a legendary, that is not the will or determination that is missing: Always farming and stocking materials and after a long time, don't see the end so sell all the stuffs on TP for a good amount of gold... Legendary worth their names, really. But as reward I see also, be part of the story, my personal story and great events like scarlet's war, that is what I'm proud of. Little things are rewarding for me like winning 6 times Lunatic Inquisition. Or beat the clock tower.