Are Mounts Necessary?

Since the introduction of Path of Fire it is wonderful to witness the enthusiasm of players exploiting events in 1 - 15 zones. I wonder should starting areas allow mounts at all, are they needed? Does a mounted player actually need to use their mount in Wayfarers, Ashford, Queensdale, Metrica, or Calendon. Really? Are these players, myself included, so handicapped that we find ourselves in such desperate need of a mount in these rookie areas? I don't think so, but that's my opinion. I just play, watch what has happened to the flavor of the game. I know that by allowing mounts in starting areas is a great marketing ploy, showing how wonderful it is to drop a mob of five or more with one splashy dismount attack while other players are simply attempting to get a single hit on any target, the event ends. How wonderful it is that any player can exploit and dominate an entire event, it's kind of like a level 80 can use elite skills making mobs disappear against lowly level 3's no matter how the scaling works. Guild Wars opened a can of worms with mounts, it was a long time coming, and what a cash cow. If they can control Jumping Puzzles from the exploits of using a mount why not the starter zones.

How is using a mount to complete or take part in any of the game’s content an exploit? None of those events or most of the other events give the players anything of value.

I have the mounts and have never done this or plan to because there is zero reward to do it.

Exploit is perhaps the wrong word. Dominate is not inaccurate, though. The behavior is most likely to happen on days when a starter map is the location for the daily event task. I'm not sure it's a huge deal as the the daily event task in low level zones was a farce before mounts. If it becomes an issue, perhaps the dismount attack could scale down better.

I don't think the raptor's tail attack scales properly in the newby zones. The char I just started is doing HPs there, and the raptor is just death from above. My char is 55 (scroll), in junk, and her attacks are scaling, but the raptor's tail swipe takes out 5 at a time. I need those HPs though. I finally just used raptor to travel, it was getting silly.

Seriously I don't believe scaling newbie zones is the end all to this exploit. I say exploit because the very definition of the word, "a bold and daring feat", it's not so much about the gain of resources for a newbie map, what would you get some copper? Consider an escort event you've done probably a hundred times, you know all the spawn points by heart, you mount your raptor and lunge to the point where the mob will occur and tail swipe the mob as it appears with anything left over getting held in place with little crowd control and a touch of area of effect, how heroic!, you mount up and lunge to the next spawn point rinse and repeat. Wow, dominating a newbie zone with a level 80 mounted seems so difficult, in the meantime there may be players around you who are .. let us say a mere level 8 without a mount who have never experienced this particular event and stand agape to realize that even if they wanted to participate they can't keep up or get a single hit in edgewise. I have seen it done as have others who have questioned the sensibility of mounts in 1-15 zones. I like the having my mount, but I frankly don't see any necessity in using it for accomplishing my daily if the daily requires me to be in a newbie zone. Simply shut down the use of mounts in level 1-15 zones, easy as that. Level 80 players will still have all their elite skills which are more than effective in controlling most events anyway, provided the players actually know how to use them.I know that by allowing neophytes to see how wonderful mounts are entices them to purchase Path of Fire and rush headlong into battles, just leave the training wheels on the kiddies before exposing to the harsh reality of learning, testing, being nerfed, and trying again.

Scale the mount attacks do deal no damage if you are low level and the problem is solved

@"jia li ng.8415" said:Since the introduction of Path of Fire it is wonderful to witness the enthusiasm of players exploiting events in 1 - 15 zones.Okay, I'll bite.

I wonder should starting areas allow mounts at all, are they needed? Does a mounted player actually need to use their mount in Wayfarers, Ashford, Queensdale, Metrica, or Calendon. Really?Are they needed anywhere but PoF? "Technically" no? I'm not sure what you're asking because they were made AFTER the fact. That's kind of a silly question.

Are these players, myself included, so handicapped that we find ourselves in such desperate need of a mount in these rookie areas?Now you're kind of sounding like those religious informercials...

I don't think so, but that's my opinion. I just play, watch what has happened to the flavor of the game.We don't need gliders either. Once again these were made after the fact. I'm still not getting your angle here.

I know that by allowing mounts in starting areas is a great marketing ploy, showing how wonderful it is to drop a mob of five or more with one splashy dismount attack while other players are simply attempting to get a single hit on any target, the event ends.I know that by being level 80 in starting areas, how wonderful it is to drop a mob of five or more with one slash of a multi-hitting enemy while other players are simply attempting to get a single hit on any target, and then the event ends.I know that by being a pistol thief at level bloody 3 just cleaning house because I'm a level 3 Revenant in Wayfarer trying to hit a dang Jotun and they're just killing them before I can get a hit in because I don't have a hammer to try and hope I get a hit in before pick them off one by one in front of me. I've seen it countless times when I'm trying to level low level areas on anything that barely has range... or starts off with nothing and stupid me didn't go into the starting area to get a weapon with range to be able to compete.Oh, and I should add if I had no expansion I couldn't go into town to even do this.

How wonderful it is that any player can exploit and dominate an entire event, it's kind of like a level 80 can use elite skills making mobs disappear against lowly level 3's no matter how the scaling works.Um a level 80 can do that already though. You've never seen it? At all? Go near Shaemoor as a level 80 and just swing/shoot/sneeze on one of those wurms in the beginning farm. Do it. They die in one shot. One. The Elementals? About 1 also or sometimes 2 near the dam.

Guild Wars opened a can of worms with mounts, it was a long time coming, and what a cash cow. If they can control Jumping Puzzles from the exploits of using a mount why not the starter zones.There's jumping puzzles you can complete with mounts right now just to let you know. Like the one in Snowden? In that cavern/cave/whatever? 2 Springer jumps and you're done.Some disable mounts, some disable glider, some disable none. Silverwastes disable none at all.I don't see the issue.If you mean people who didn't get the expansion is "suffering", newsflash... they've been suffering before hand as I mention as me as melee behind a ranged player usually in low level areas.

What I usually had to do is just wait until those people leave and continue on my business.Did it ruin my time playing? No because I 'm not in a bloody rush. They leave, I have the place to myself. Win-win-win scenario.

How long does it take you to cross a map on foot (no mount)? I can run 3 zones on foot in less the 12 minutes. From the Grove to Lion's Arch, or for that matter for Hoelbrak to Fort Trinity in less than 15 minutes. I have and could prove it to you anytime, mounts are cool, but before we had mounts we pretty much ran to where we needed to be without any choice. So what, you save 2 or 3 minutes of a 12 minute run simply because your mounted, "By Rapthar's Hammer What Savings!"On another note though "off topic" don't you love having your glider deploy when you least expect it, I know I simply love that you don't have the option of a toggle to turn the kitten off, I digress. Scaling isn't the issue I am addressing, what I am saying is ...

"NO MOUNTS ALLOWED IN 1-15 ZONES"

The same comments, only sans Mounts, about L80s in starter areas have been posted on the forums for a very long time. I'm not sure Mounts make a discernible difference.

Good luck.

Using mounts in starting zones is great. It makes stale spaces fresh again.

Yes, I confess I have used my mounts in 1-15 zones, and while it was fun for all of about five minutes, the newness wore off rather quickly and tarnished the level of enjoyment. While extremely useful in Path of Fire, mounts are a yawn in level 1-15 zones. Of course you could spend real money to flash up those pixels to make your mounts look even more cool (in some cases ridiculous) and that's your choice. It is wonderful to have a choice, however, there may be players somewhat less fortunate in those zones, who may not be able to purchase any expansions, who would like to participate and be part of the community that are being overlooked and over shadowed by our epic wonderfulness. Growth in the community might be better served if in these areas everyone was on equal footing, building toward a better tomorrow that everyone can share and enjoy.

Speaking as someone who has no LVL 80s and therefore no mounts, I can't say I've felt like I've been particularly disadvantaged in the starter areas.

There's one HP in Queensdale that I can think of, it's a level 10 if memory serves correctly, the funny thing is I personally was never able to complete that HP solo on any genuine level 10 I ever brought in there. Level 20 and 30 solo yes, but never the actual level recommendation by myself.

Even back then, 4-5 years ago wandering around as a newbie I welcomed the higher levels that came through and helped with these newbie zones.

Before mounts, before gliding however, I still remember many people complaining about those evil level 80 folks coming in and ruining the game for these quote unquote new players.

What you have to realize is it doesn't matter if they have mounts, gliding or either expansion that offers one of them, the level 80 folks that have been playing the game for more than a few days will still be there, because they've experienced everything else and sometimes just want to go back to the old, and even if they have gliding or a mount, the character they are on at the time may not be a level 80.

You can either welcome everyone as a player of the game or you can suggest putting up a wall and say ONLY a certain level of player is allowed in a certain zone. But then, you risk alienating those crazy level 10 players that want to go the Frost Gorge just to ski :).

I do recall numerous times as a level 7 choosing to show up in Godslost Swamp for a Shadow Behemoth (SB) event, it was very challenging to stay alive and even though I actually tickled the SB with my feather of a weapon, completing the event without any scars, or better yet the time that two other players and myself took on the SB event on an eerily vacant map, (teamwork and belief in our abilities) we prevailed. Since I've only played this franchise for nearly 14 years (both GW/GW2) and (believe me, I have looked for anything better) with over 150 characters, every conceivable Meta/non-Meta build tried and tested, there is nothing that surprises me. Even the time I ventured out of the Guild hall into Verdant Brink as a level 24 attracting the attention of every beast within a 2000 range, (did the AI smell fear or fresh meat or both) but it was a challenge, challenges make the game great and tests your abilities as a player. Do you really believe that as a player level 1 or 80 that you absolutely need to have your Mount in 1-15 zones? Will your gameplay be diminished because such a restriction? F2P players are so hamstrung at the very onset of the game, unable to get into their respective cities until level 10, unable to map chat, have a calendar of daily events (you have to force feed your dailies and some days F2P are forced out of completion), and unable to upgrade their armor or weapons through any means other than the drops that occur (because BLTC is exclusive) or the kindness of another player who takes the time to share their wealth. That brings us back to being a community of players, gamers who love this game. Would you suddenly feel an urge to rage quit because the game placed restrictions on newbie zones that didn't allow mounts? Not if you are a true gamer. Your playstyle might change but you adapt, that's what we do, deal with changes. We have the luxury of going anywhere, and doing anything, even taking on an Elite Fire Hydra solo or a Champion Unbound Djinn with a friend (because we can).

@jia li ng.8415 said:Do you really believe that as a player level 1 or 80 that you absolutely need to have your Mount in 1-15 zones? Will your gameplay be diminished because such a restriction?

Definitely would. All my characters are stationed in Queensdale and not being able to jump on buildings and travel the map on my griffon would definitely diminish my gameplay experience.

I can already 1 shot things with my weapons in lv 1 zones. They could remove the damage done by mounts, I never felt like the damage done by them was significant, but there's no reason removing mounts entirely from those areas. Even with their damage gone, your issue will persist because it was always like this even before mounts. Lv80 will dominate the entire map.What should be removed is the daily event completer in specific maps. Or it should be changed to region.

@"jia li ng.8415" said:

showing how wonderful it is to drop a mob of five or more with one splashy dismount attackIf you think that's the main benefit of mounts in the Vanilla parts of Tyria, you are missing a big piece of what's fun for a lot of us.

I think it would be fine if ANet eliminated the knockback/pull for dismount in sub L80 areas. I think it would be equally fine to drastically reduce the damage done by mounts in newbie zones.

But if you're going to ask, "are mounts necessary?" then I'll have to say, 'yeah, actually they are'. I wouldn't go back to a lot of maps at all, except that they are like completely new worlds for me now, because of mounts. (And I say this as someone who never wanted to see mounts in the game.)

Yes, they are necessary. Yes, players can do that, but most will stop if asked nicely. They are also make the travel easier for the maps. I don't care if you did all 3 maps in less then 12 minutes. I have done them too many times now that I just want the get map done with now, so mounts help a lot in that regard for me completing the map.

@HazyDaisy.4107 said:There's one HP in Queensdale that I can think of, it's a level 10 if memory serves correctly, the funny thing is I personally was never able to complete that HP solo on any genuine level 10 I ever brought in there. Level 20 and 30 solo yes, but never the actual level recommendation by myself.

Even back then, 4-5 years ago wandering around as a newbie I welcomed the higher levels that came through and helped with these newbie zones.

Before mounts, before gliding however, I still remember many people complaining about those evil level 80 folks coming in and ruining the game for these quote unquote new players.

What you have to realize is it doesn't matter if they have mounts, gliding or either expansion that offers one of them, the level 80 folks that have been playing the game for more than a few days will still be there, because they've experienced everything else and sometimes just want to go back to the old, and even if they have gliding or a mount, the character they are on at the time may not be a level 80.

You can either welcome everyone as a player of the game or you can suggest putting up a wall and say ONLY a certain level of player is allowed in a certain zone. But then, you risk alienating those crazy level 10 players that want to go the Frost Gorge just to ski :).

I'm going to assume it's the thief one with 2 girl thieves and one white haired thief guy.In my defense though, every kind of game I play that's an RPG or exploration I always tend to "Let me 100% explore this place before continuing on" so by the time I used to head in those level 10 areas and higher, I would usually be level 15 or at least near 20.A lot of those recommended level ones at low level are really tough at the recommended level.

In Same Queensdale near that one Hero Point that's around like 4 Veteran Centaurs and like 15 of them running around and by that one renown heart you need to recruit ettins to fight those same Centaurs, there's a minidungeon/jumping puzzle/whatever to the east.I don't know how the hell a low level player is meant to beat it. I really don't, and I mean even at the area recommended 1-15.

At the end of the thing is a room full of oozes, multiple small/medium/veteran ones.All swarm you and immobilize you.. meaning

1. Got no good range? You're dead.
2. Got no way of removing the immobilization? You're dead.
3. Can't kill at least half of them quickly? You're dead.
4. Can kill most of them, but still too slow? You're dead as most of them will just respawn when you try to get to the chest at the end.

I discovered this cave like 3 months ago on a temporary character and I was wondering how the hell I was supposed to beat it. I did die, but then after that I went back there, kept the character in a safe spot and logged out, brought a level 80 there and cleaned house, and then loaded back on my lower character to at least get to see what's in the chest for the "Recommended level" character.Oh, and even if it's meant for multiple people... those multiples better be more than 2, because I tried it once with one of my friends who was very inexperienced too and we both died.Unless this was meant to be for "Those who have a level 80 and know what they're doing but then come back later to try out dungeon/puzzle" Fine, but I highly doubt that.

Don't blame mounts; blame the fact that the events don't scale. Even at 80 and with all the mounts, I was struggling to get a hit in for several Metrica Province events last night. The strength of the mobs should scale up based on the number of people participating in the event so that there is ample time for people to at least tag a mob, if not multiples.

@Ayumi Spender.1082 said:

@HazyDaisy.4107 said:There's one HP in Queensdale that I can think of, it's a level 10 if memory serves correctly, the funny thing is I personally was never able to complete that HP solo on any genuine level 10 I ever brought in there. Level 20 and 30 solo yes, but never the actual level recommendation by myself.

Even back then, 4-5 years ago wandering around as a newbie I welcomed the higher levels that came through and helped with these newbie zones.

Before mounts, before gliding however, I still remember many people complaining about those evil level 80 folks coming in and ruining the game for these quote unquote new players.

What you have to realize is it doesn't matter if they have mounts, gliding or either expansion that offers one of them, the level 80 folks that have been playing the game for more than a few days will still be there, because they've experienced everything else and sometimes just want to go back to the old, and even if they have gliding or a mount, the character they are on at the time may not be a level 80.

You can either welcome everyone as a player of the game or you can suggest putting up a wall and say ONLY a certain level of player is allowed in a certain zone. But then, you risk alienating those crazy level 10 players that want to go the Frost Gorge just to ski :).

1. Got no good range? You're dead.
2. Got no way of removing the immobilization? You're dead.
3. Can't kill at least half of them quickly? You're dead.
4. Can kill most of them, but still too slow? You're dead as most of them will just respawn when you try to get to the chest at the end.

One person at level can do it. You go around and up. When you enter the room start running and take a hard left. Go up that ramp, jump on the top of the pillars and run along on the edge at back of the room above the mobs. Drop down where the chest is but in a small nook close to the back wall so you don’t agro everything. Then use range to kill the closest small oozes and pull the nearest vet ooze to you to kill it. At that point you should be able to open the chest without agro’ing anything else, then wp out.

if i were a new player, then i should have to work my way up to using mounts - if for no other reason so that they don't miss the adventure of being a new player and understanding the mechanics from the ground up. All these skills become necessary later in the game ...especially with wvw , which has both npcs and other players that attack you. - no mounts there.

But what if as an old player, I just want to make a new character just for the sake of making an asuran guardian ? - I'd want to rush this experience of leveling.as a maxed player, I'd love to show my end game toys to any friends that just start gw2 - but that's really an adventure in a sort of role play way and since everyone isn't into role playing ( in an rpg ) - it tends to get misused. as a low level experienced player, then my story would be my rich uncle hooked me up with a griffon, if I were a new player, well this is where it all starts. Which is an adventure all it's own.

Making game changing scripted rules that prevent you from using your griffon in queensdale, cripples the role play aspect of such an experience, and quantizes a living world rpg to a social network like Second life. Ultimately it should be up to the player to discipline themselves to adhering to the rules, no different than trying to not win a poker game by using your cards like ninja throwing stars to kill your opponent. - with the role play comes the need to follow some kind of rules to give your adventure meaning.

In the old school roleplay way, usually with a bad role play reputation, comes a bad label - ie - rebel , evil person - and pvprs love to hunt them lol
now that would be fun, putting a bounty out on someone who abuses the game!!

There's an idea for anet, set up a function where when people get reported for trivial things, the reporter can actually put up some gold to take out a bounty on the person who broke the rules. - and for that person they are in pvp mode "Red character" wherever they go in the game lol!! Even the bad guys would have fun getting hunted with that one!

I never thought they were necessary. You had people make mount threads ad nauseum about how the game would be great with them and I never really much agreed, but it was obviously something people wanted a lot. Anet gave them to us. And honestly? I'm pretty impressed with their implementation. It was done very well. I certainly don't mind mounts as they're iterated in GW2. They're pretty kitten cool so hey.

I'm not about to look a gift raptor in the mouth.

I just rolled a new character and pretty much pretend I don't have mounts or gliders when people are around. The lower level events are easy regardless of if a person there uses a mount or not. Is it annoying when a person one-shots practically everything in the event and making others contributions nil? Of course, but I'd hardly blame that on mounts.

Not only that, but such events are not the norm. Unless you just love hanging around high levels in low-level zones, I get plenty of opportunities to complete events with others that don't one-shot everything. Then there's the factor that you won't be low-level for long anyway.

Basically, I don't see this as a big issue. They could scale down the damage of the mount attacks and scale up events better but it's not an epidemic that requires immediate attention. So long as there isn't more incentive to do low-level events for high level characters, I think things balance out decently.

I like using mounts in starter zones to easily do world completion. I don't like being told what I can and cannot do though.

@jia li ng.8415 said:Since the introduction of Path of Fire it is wonderful to witness the enthusiasm of players exploiting events in 1 - 15 zones. I wonder should starting areas allow mounts at all, are they needed? Does a mounted player actually need to use their mount in Wayfarers, Ashford, Queensdale, Metrica, or Calendon. Really? Are these players, myself included, so handicapped that we find ourselves in such desperate need of a mount in these rookie areas?

As a Warrior main, yes. We've never had any of those fancy-schmancy runspeed Signets or hookus-pookus teleports, and as such the mounts are a godsend when just getting around.