5 man dungeon 'raids' — Guild Wars 2 Forums

5 man dungeon 'raids'

Dungeons have been dead awhile. And we can debate it... But we all know why.

But I have a dream. I dream that one day I can PuG a group, and enter instanced 5 man content that's challenging but not Nintendo-hard. I have a dream that I can play 5 man instanced content free of frustrating cut scenes. I have a dream that the mobs in that content will have infinite range aggro, so skipping is impossible. I have a dream that we will be rewarded for killing everything in the dungeon. I have a dream that the bosses in these modes will each be designed to mimic ONE of the raid mechanics each, making them harder than dungeons or fractals, but less "dark souls" than raids. I have a dream that you could pug this content without needing a group of saints with infinite patience to "train" 10 strangers into pro-level coordination. I have a dream that this content would be hard enough to get people's skills ready for raids, but not so hard it is a raid. I have a dream that this content would be a place to farm marks to buy ascended gear. (obviously for 2 or 3 times the price of raids.) I have a dream that this content feel connected to the game world, and not be mysteriously stapled on the side of the lore. (lookin at you fractals.) I have a dream that this game mode actually connects to the stories told in fractals. I have a dream that dungeons could be made great again.

Comments

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 13

    @BrokenGlass.9356 said:
    Dungeons have been dead awhile. And we can debate it... But we all know why.

    But I have a dream. I dream that one day I can PuG a group, and enter instanced 5 man content that's challenging but not Nintendo-hard.

    Purely subjective. What you are essentially saying is: you want a difficulty which hits exactly the spot you find comfortable challenge wise. That's never going to happen.

    @BrokenGlass.9356 said:
    I have a dream that I can play 5 man instanced content free of frustrating cut scenes.

    The amount of cutscenes in any content is limited. The only mandatory cutscene in raids is the one before Samarog, the others can be deactivated. Most cutscenes in dungeons/fractals can be skiped.

    @BrokenGlass.9356 said:
    I have a dream that the mobs in that content will have infinite range aggro, so skipping is impossible. I have a dream that we will be rewarded for killing everything in the dungeon.

    Infinite agro range is impossible, you would literally have the entire zones enemys attack you the moment you enter. Even with some type of movement limitations, the permanent combat would absolutely mess with the behavior of the game. It would make a healer a requirement since you would have no out of combat regeneration between packs.

    @BrokenGlass.9356 said:
    I have a dream that the bosses in these modes will each be designed to mimic ONE of the raid mechanics each, making them harder than dungeons or fractals, but less "dark souls" than raids. I have a dream that you could pug this content without needing a group of saints with infinite patience to "train" 10 strangers into pro-level coordination.

    Any type of content which does not require some form of practice will be infinitately easy. Basically tou want easy content which you can clear the moment you try it for the first time. You also want this content to be challenging. Both of those ideas to not mesh. It's either or. Challenge automatically means you should require practice and experience for clearing the content.

    @BrokenGlass.9356 said:
    I have a dream that this content would be hard enough to get people's skills ready for raids, but not so hard it is a raid.

    The skills required for raids are not based around single mechanics. Being successful in raids has way more to do with organisation, coodination, understanding of basic mechanics and cooperation of 10 people with often division of roles. That's not something you "aquire" by playing random content and is difficult to learn unless playing the actual raid content.

    It's also not something you can practice with PUGs. Raids were never designed to be PUGed in the first place. The fact that they are already says a lot about the content.

    Getting into raids is easy enough and revolvs around joining like minded individuals in form of joining practice runs or raiding guilds. Practicing for group content with a group makes way more sense then individually with PUGs.

    @BrokenGlass.9356 said:
    I have a dream that this content would be a place to farm marks to buy ascended gear. (obviously for 2 or 3 times the price of raids.) I have a dream that this content feel connected to the game world, and not be mysteriously stapled on the side of the lore. (lookin at you fractals.) I have a dream that this game mode actually connects to the stories told in fractals. I have a dream that dungeons could be made great again.

    What you described was mostly fractals with a stronger tie to lore and more similar boss mechanics to raids.

    EDIT: typos

  • Zania.8461Zania.8461 Member ✭✭

    99 and 100 normal mode is pretty much what you are describing. Challenge motes for those (especially 100) are on, or above raid level, but for stepping stone content, normal modes of those two fractals are quite nice and far more difficult to get carried in.

    In them you:
    Can't skip stuff (so you indirectly get rewarded for killing everything)
    Have practically no unskippable cutscenes
    Have difficulty between most fractals and raids (on normal mode)
    Fractals in general are one of the better ways to farm ascended gear at only cost of time. Granted RNG is present, but that seems to be the name of the game nowadays.

    Dungeons are dead because the team that made them is gone. The tools used to create them are half a decade out of date. At this point it is likely easier to make a new instance (and call it fractal) than to overhaul an existing dungeon.

  • Issildia.1289Issildia.1289 Member ✭✭

    I agree that we need content that is difficult, but can be completed with a reasonably skilled Pug. While I could eventually gain enough skill to do Raids, I have a full time job and my time is limited. My guild does Raids but they practice late at night so I can never participate. I'm not sure if this is the case with other guilds but as for me I want content that does not require a great deal of repetitive practice with a static group. I want to come home from work, hop on the game and check LFG for a party to do something challenging enough to be enjoyable, but not something that requires hours of my life in order to pass the first boss.

    I completed all available content in GW 1. Every mission, every FoW, UW, or Tombs run. And it was a blast, I enjoyed the level of difficulty offered, and the ability to work with a random PUG to successfully complete most anything. Dungeons/FoTM filled this role when GW 2 was in it's early years, and as was mentioned earlier in this thread; Dungeons/Instanced content are the bread and butter of any mmo. Even if Guild Wars has always pushed to be different, this game needs instanced content that rests somewhere between Raids and Dungeons that can satisfy the majority of players.

    Just my two cents.

  • zoomborg.9462zoomborg.9462 Member ✭✭✭

    So from what i read in this post, u would want dungeons in the difficulty level of fractal cm's. That would be nice.
    Also as Cyninja said, anything even remotely challenging would require practice and coordination or it would be plain and ez just like normal t4's, there's no in-between and that's not only in GW2 but a universal law when it comes to games.

  • Chay.7852Chay.7852 Member ✭✭

    I agree with most of the points mentioned. But.. why are you already asking that these new.. dungeons - id prefer calling them Elite Missions like we had in GWC - to have worse rewards than raids...? Make it different. ;)

    We used to run DoA to get Tormented weapons (or at least work towards these weapons). We used to run Shards of Orr because there was a chance to get the Bone Dragon Staff from the end chest. In the UW one could get the Eternal Blade and spirits weapons, in Urgoz and The Deep Zodiac weapons .. and so on.. Remeber the Voltaic Spear...? Slaver's Exile.. and so on..
    This is something i would love to see in Guild Wars 2.

    Also.. what about instances for different numbers of players? Im not talking about low-man runs. In GWC we had Fow for 6 ppl (later 8), dungeons, UW, DoA was 8 and then we had Urgoz and The Deep was 12. Something like that..

  • Issildia.1289Issildia.1289 Member ✭✭

    @Chay.7852 said:
    I agree with most of the points mentioned. But.. why are you already asking that these new.. dungeons - id prefer calling them Elite Missions like we had in GWC - to have worse rewards than raids...? Make it different. ;)

    We used to run DoA to get Tormented weapons (or at least work towards these weapons). We used to run Shards of Orr because there was a chance to get the Bone Dragon Staff from the end chest. In the UW one could get the Eternal Blade and spirits weapons, in Urgoz and The Deep Zodiac weapons .. and so on.. Remeber the Voltaic Spear...? Slaver's Exile.. and so on..
    This is something i would love to see in Guild Wars 2.

    Also.. what about instances for different numbers of players? Im not talking about low-man runs. In GWC we had Fow for 6 ppl (later 8), dungeons, UW, DoA was 8 and then we had Urgoz and The Deep was 12. Something like that..

    Yup this ^ is what I want.

    Also I totally forgot about DoA! It was pretty fun.

  • ADTempys.6382ADTempys.6382 Member ✭✭
    edited November 14

    @BrokenGlass.9356 said:
    Dungeons have been dead awhile. And we can debate it... But we all know why.

    But I have a dream. I dream that one day I can PuG a group, and enter instanced 5 man content that's challenging but not Nintendo-hard. I have a dream that I can play 5 man instanced content free of frustrating cut scenes. I have a dream that the mobs in that content will have infinite range aggro, so skipping is impossible. I have a dream that we will be rewarded for killing everything in the dungeon. I have a dream that the bosses in these modes will each be designed to mimic ONE of the raid mechanics each, making them harder than dungeons or fractals, but less "dark souls" than raids. I have a dream that you could pug this content without needing a group of saints with infinite patience to "train" 10 strangers into pro-level coordination. I have a dream that this content would be hard enough to get people's skills ready for raids, but not so hard it is a raid. I have a dream that this content would be a place to farm marks to buy ascended gear. (obviously for 2 or 3 times the price of raids.) I have a dream that this content feel connected to the game world, and not be mysteriously stapled on the side of the lore. (lookin at you fractals.) I have a dream that this game mode actually connects to the stories told in fractals. I have a dream that dungeons could be made great again.

    Sorry to sound rude but you kinda say what people who have close to no understanding of what are dungeons.
    And the current staff has no clues aswell, so I hope they never try to "fix" dungeons it would be their real death.
    If they want to add more OK but dont butcher the ones we currently have.

    Honestly just give a real try at fotm, Anet did a fantastic job to make it way easier through the years.

    I dont mean that to be offensive but its really triggering to read posts like these.

  • Westenev.5289Westenev.5289 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 17

    ... Didn't you kind of describe Fractals of the Mists? I mean, they are basically dungeons without the cutscenes, with challenge modes that turn them into 5 man raids.

    EDIT: Several fractals are actually abridged events from Living World Season 1. To name a few, Thermanova Reactor (from Metrica Provence) and Nightmare Fractal (Kessex Hills) - so they are somewhat tied into lore.

  • xDudisx.5914xDudisx.5914 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 17

    They can make challenging content for any amount of players they want, even for solo players. I still don't see a reason why they moved from 5 to 10, considering all pvp and skills was balanced for 5.

  • Honestly just give a real try at fotm, Anet did a fantastic job to make it way easier through the years.

    Yes, I tried. Many others did too. Fractal is well made. But to some of us, Dungeons are just special, a mode couldn't be replaced by Fractals.
    We all know it was Anet intention to kill Dungeons several years back, I do secretly hope that they would change their mind after a couple of years and give it some love. The suggestion by OP are all pretty good. Hope there will be some updates from Anet in the future.

  • Tiny Doom.4380Tiny Doom.4380 Member ✭✭

    If you can cast your mind back more than five years, there was a deal of surprise that ANet put Dungeons into GW2 at all. It was a somewhat controversial decision, pre-launch. They probably wish they hadn't now.

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