Full Harrier support

Hellooo,since the meta changed im thinking of using a full harrier scourge.Any1 tried it already?Any thoughts about this build??

Marshalls gives better milage with blood

I used mostly shamans last night and it was very effective. The main reason I do not like using harriers is that it prevents you from using epi and marshalls has pretty low condi damage as well. Shamans also has so much vitality on it that I could pretty freely cast my fskills. I did wear 3 pieces of marshalls and 2 vipers because I had a bunch of assaulter raid trinkets and I didn't want to spend all my magnetite shards until I tried the spec. Honestly it seemed like plenty of healing and I did a lot more damage than other healers doing between 4 and 7k boss dps and a lot more aoe. Epi was definately doing less than full vipers, but still very much worth using. If you want boon duration cause your group needs your might you could go seraphs but it's a lot less healing power so you might want a mix of seraphs and maybe marshalls or shamans. That said, seraphs armor is one of the more difficult to get, costing 25 jade shards per insignia. Seraphs has more condition damage and precision, so you should be doing a lot more damage with that set as well though.

Edit: removed build cause it won't link properly. The build I previously linked was not what I used.Edit 2: this should be the right build from what I used. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAW7fnE9CV3gt1Ae3A83gluBTPoOUTqUfgRwha6BMACAA-jRyGQBD4JA4UlKA4iAMVlgMRJRa2fAN6GIk6PHUZEA-e

I used pet for cc as needed, and I used either trail of anguish or signet of undeath when I did not need epi.

I used peppermint oil not the tuning crystal, but that tuning crystal could have been good for more dps. I am not recommending those trinkets it's just what I had and I didn't want to spend money til I knew it was worth. The runes were a request due to fear for fury uptime, I have to discuss with my team if it was necessary. To me it felt meh.

For any curious here are my logs so far. Please keep in mind this was my first time playing the build and by no means a perfect representation of the full capabilities of a healing scourge.

https://dps.report/5qcI-20171113-182632_cairn

https://dps.report/NszB-20171113-183333_mo

https://dps.report/xt48-20171113-184927_sam

https://dps.report/Yjnr-20171113-191202_vg

https://dps.report/PNeL-20171113-203620_gorse

I changed from full seraph to full harrier. Better might/reg uptime, more healing and about 700 more dps (for what it's worth ;)) while playing dagger/torch and dagger/focus or Staff if i couldn't stay melee because of mechanics. It's enough to replace 1 Healer and a PS-Warri making space for an additional DD.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRAof4dnE9CV3gV9Cm9Cs9iluBTvnOUTqTZsBQAgqDMCKUA-jxxGQBBV9HydSAup+hlq8DAPBAoqEcI7PQKA/GZB-e

Sadly, i couldn't post dps.reports yet, because the person who did the logs forgot to update arcdps last time.

@Jaya.2760 said:I changed from full seraph to full harrier. Better might/reg uptime, more healing and about 700 more dps (for what it's worth ;)) while playing dagger/torch and dagger/focus or Staff if i couldn't stay melee because of mechanics. It's enough to replace 1 Healer and a PS-Warri making space for an additional DD.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRAof4dnE9CV3gV9Cm9Cs9iluBTvnOUTqTZsBQAgqDMCKUA-jxxGQBBV9HydSAup+hlq8DAPBAoqEcI7PQKA/GZB-e

Sadly, i couldn't post dps.reports yet, because the person who did the logs forgot to update arcdps last time.

It seems odd to me that the power on harriers would make you do more damage than a condi build, but even if it's 700 more dps, the ability to bring epi outweighs that increase in single target on most fights in my opinion. Also, the Druid already replaces both ps warriors and you only need one banner warrior now, except on fights with more spread, and our spread might gen is probably not enough. . Yes, harriers is a lot more healing than seraphs. Is focus a reliable source of regen? Or is there a different use for it?

Now, I want to say, I am sure harriers works, but I just don't agree that it's better than some form of condi healer scourge in raids.

@Renita.7824 said:

@Jaya.2760 said:I changed from full seraph to full harrier. Better might/reg uptime, more healing and about 700 more dps (for what it's worth ;)) while playing dagger/torch and dagger/focus or Staff if i couldn't stay melee because of mechanics. It's enough to replace 1 Healer and a PS-Warri making space for an additional DD.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRAof4dnE9CV3gV9Cm9Cs9iluBTvnOUTqTZsBQAgqDMCKUA-jxxGQBBV9HydSAup+hlq8DAPBAoqEcI7PQKA/GZB-e

Sadly, i couldn't post dps.reports yet, because the person who did the logs forgot to update arcdps last time.

Yes, a druid can replace both ps, but only if the group could stack, which isn't allways the case. Is focus reliable? Hmm, not as staff2, but it's enough regen for the squad, and dagger is more dmg and lf-generation then staff (on a power build). The higher dmg (in my case) was that running dagger mh allowed my to cast F5 on cd in addition to F4 and F3, which i couldn't with seraph and scepter mh.No problems keeping up the might on my subsquad for most times, only when things get worse and people start running around^^.A seraphscourge that's not focused completly on healing will outdps me without a doubt. And yes, the lose of epidemic hurts and i just use it at samarog to destroy spears by spreading out the soft-cc's, but overall my expirience is that harrier makes your job much more relaxed then seraph. Both works fine, it's more a case of personal taste.

@Jaya.2760 said:

@Renita.7824 said:

@Jaya.2760 said:I changed from full seraph to full harrier. Better might/reg uptime, more healing and about 700 more dps (for what it's worth ;)) while playing dagger/torch and dagger/focus or Staff if i couldn't stay melee because of mechanics. It's enough to replace 1 Healer and a PS-Warri making space for an additional DD.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRAof4dnE9CV3gV9Cm9Cs9iluBTvnOUTqTZsBQAgqDMCKUA-jxxGQBBV9HydSAup+hlq8DAPBAoqEcI7PQKA/GZB-e

Sadly, i couldn't post dps.reports yet, because the person who did the logs forgot to update arcdps last time.

Everything you say makes sense. With shamans and staff I have enough life force to use all fskills on cd and still swaP to scepter for dps. I realize the lower vitality on seraphs might make that not possible. I guess we have a bit more range on might than Druid if only a slight spread is happening. I am still not convinced we need a full boon duration build with all the random might that groups can provide. If you really need the might duration I would prefer to swap to aristocracy runes over healing runes than to wear harriers. But as you said, they are both viable and I guess it depends on what weapon you want to wear and if your group needs epi.

a druid stacking might and a full harrier necro stacking might and barriers and regen, a raid group will never be in need of healing:)

I run full harriers dagger/focus support build with axe for ranged dps. It's wicked fun to barrier people and time them before a hit and also do some aoe melting with the bigger sand shade. IF you know when to use the healing abilities it's a massive healer and can keep 20+ stacks of might and infinte regen on your party the entire fight. Enjoy :)

also if you run altruism runes instead of monks you can time your healing skill for a burst and the warrior wont have to bring for great justice and can go more dps.

as a second, has anyone tried using life from death instead of vampiric aura? i dont like that on scourge that it has a 7 second delay but for fights with lots of LF it might be a nice rotation to 5 to 4 offset by time to keep constant pulsing of healing.

I went full minstrel and its okay for open world pve, sometimes fun to play in wvw.

BUT:Its pretty bad. Firebrand will heal your group, just from standing beside you (around 600-700healing per second)Much better, but no great healburst

Scourge can dish out barrier yes, but the biggest barrier from healing skill has 3/4 seconds casttime. And you cannot mainzain barrier on allies even if they arent hit. Just to say that barrier isnt healing, its dmg prevention. But enemys cab just wait, till barrier expires.

Healing from transfusion is pretty bad. Only nice to have is the revive mechanic, but has pretty low range.Healing from transfusion: 1300 at max healingpower+healing output. Thats 1 tick per second with a pretty high cost (lifeforce)

Oh and druid is able to do solo 25stacks might, so might from scourge isnt needed

@Nimon.7840 said:I went full minstrel and its okay for open world pve, sometimes fun to play in wvw.

BUT:Its pretty bad. Firebrand will heal your group, just from standing beside you (around 600-700healing per second)Much better, but no great healburst

Scourge can dish out barrier yes, but the biggest barrier from healing skill has 3/4 seconds casttime. And you cannot mainzain barrier on allies even if they arent hit. Just to say that barrier isnt healing, its dmg prevention. But enemys cab just wait, till barrier expires.

Healing from transfusion is pretty bad. Only nice to have is the revive mechanic, but has pretty low range.Healing from transfusion: 1300 at max healingpower+healing output. Thats 1 tick per second with a pretty high cost (lifeforce)

Oh and druid is able to do solo 25stacks might, so might from scourge isnt needed

I don't understand your argument. How is 600-700 heal/sec from firebrand much better then 1000+ heal/sec from transfusion?

And sadly, barrier is healing from anets point of view. Otherwise it wouldn't be affected by agony in fractals and be treated like protection.

Barrier is meh in fractals yes because of how agony rips through it. In raids ive saved VG runs when we missed a green by putting barrier on everyone right before the strike in a bad zone in phase 3.

If you time things, you can have barrier uptime to 50% if you dont spam it and it helps keep your heals and their health up. Its a fun back and forth kinda. Add in regent and people stay up a lot more often. Especially on a mat fight.

Honestly I do think that the range is the hardest part. If we could get a bigger range on our healing traits, then moving fights would be easier.

Scourge has a lot of life saving abilities for a raid fight gone wrong. Have you ever seen a scourge transfusion and pull in 5 dead party members, start to res one and just see them all rise with the well on the ground and the transfusion ticking... add in life from death trait and you have a whole lot of burst healing and a raid group saved from wiping. Is it right for speed meta... honestly maybe. It deals more damage than other healers and puts out ENOUGH healing. The most hps doesn't matter if it was overheal. Plus, if you go shamans or seraphs you can bring epidemic, which is lovely for add killing. There are certainly weaknesses, range being the biggest, but it works well on a lot of fights. Barrier is also stronger than people think. As lexan said... it can save lives.

@Renita.7824 said:Have you ever seen a scourge transfusion and pull in 5 dead party members, start to res one and just see them all rise with the well on the ground and the transfusion ticking...Luckily no =)

@Vitali.5039 said:

@Renita.7824 said:Have you ever seen a scourge transfusion and pull in 5 dead party members, start to res one and just see them all rise with the well on the ground and the transfusion ticking...Luckily no =)

Just go to Tequatl or any legendary bounty in the PoF-maps as a support-scourge. Fight starts->press f4->drown in downstate players->start rezzing->press f4->drown in downstate players->start rezzing->repeat ;)

@Jaya.2760 said:

@Vitali.5039 said:

@Renita.7824 said:Have you ever seen a scourge transfusion and pull in 5 dead party members, start to res one and just see them all rise with the well on the ground and the transfusion ticking...Luckily no =)

If you mean open world then yes, I've seen it many times. I run BM Reaper rezbot in Open World. I was thinking he was talking about instanced PvE as things as Open World meta builds does not exist.

@Jaya.2760 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:I went full minstrel and its okay for open world pve, sometimes fun to play in wvw.

BUT:Its pretty bad. Firebrand will heal your group, just from standing beside you (around 600-700healing per second)Much better, but no great healburst

Scourge can dish out barrier yes, but the biggest barrier from healing skill has 3/4 seconds casttime. And you cannot mainzain barrier on allies even if they arent hit. Just to say that barrier isnt healing, its dmg prevention. But enemys cab just wait, till barrier expires.

Healing from transfusion is pretty bad. Only nice to have is the revive mechanic, but has pretty low range.Healing from transfusion: 1300 at max healingpower+healing output. Thats 1 tick per second with a pretty high cost (lifeforce)

Oh and druid is able to do solo 25stacks might, so might from scourge isnt needed

Cause you cant have a 100% uptime of transfusion. And the lf cost ist so fking high. Guard does it for free

@Renita.7824 said:Scourge has a lot of life saving abilities for a raid fight gone wrong. Have you ever seen a scourge transfusion and pull in 5 dead party members, start to res one and just see them all rise with the well on the ground and the transfusion ticking... add in life from death trait and you have a whole lot of burst healing and a raid group saved from wiping. Is it right for speed meta... honestly maybe. It deals more damage than other healers and puts out ENOUGH healing. The most hps doesn't matter if it was overheal. Plus, if you go shamans or seraphs you can bring epidemic, which is lovely for add killing. There are certainly weaknesses, range being the biggest, but it works well on a lot of fights. Barrier is also stronger than people think. As lexan said... it can save lives.

Problem: if you have to rezz so many people in raids, you failed as a healer or your group failed hard, which both isnt good either

@Renita.7824 said:For any curious here are my logs so far. Please keep in mind this was my first time playing the build and by no means a perfect representation of the full capabilities of a healing scourge.

https://dps.report/5qcI-20171113-182632_cairn

https://dps.report/NszB-20171113-183333_mo

https://dps.report/xt48-20171113-184927_sam

https://dps.report/Yjnr-20171113-191202_vg

https://dps.report/PNeL-20171113-203620_gorse

I can't find any indication of how much you healed and how effective your barriers are...

@mazut.4296 said:

@Renita.7824 said:For any curious here are my logs so far. Please keep in mind this was my first time playing the build and by no means a perfect representation of the full capabilities of a healing scourge.

https://dps.report/5qcI-20171113-182632_cairn

https://dps.report/NszB-20171113-183333_mo

https://dps.report/xt48-20171113-184927_sam

https://dps.report/Yjnr-20171113-191202_vg

https://dps.report/PNeL-20171113-203620_gorse

Are these numbers using full harrier build???

@Liviathan.5249 said:

@mazut.4296 said:

@Renita.7824 said:For any curious here are my logs so far. Please keep in mind this was my first time playing the build and by no means a perfect representation of the full capabilities of a healing scourge.

https://dps.report/5qcI-20171113-182632_cairn

https://dps.report/NszB-20171113-183333_mo

https://dps.report/xt48-20171113-184927_sam

https://dps.report/Yjnr-20171113-191202_vg

https://dps.report/PNeL-20171113-203620_gorse

No, they're from the build linked in the second post of this thread.

As I progress slowly toward the Griffin mount, I have noticed an in consistency in Scourge's performance regarding condi builds in open world bounties and other events.

Wearing a mix of shaman's and other healing stat gear, Scourge appears to be dependent on add's for its support capability. Plenty of add's mean Scourge can support to its fullest but, when the add's run out or are not part of a bounty, the LF supply tapers off and Scourge becomes a bad support profession. I know Scourge is still playable but sceptre 2, torch, and utility skills need careful management while boss AoE keeps downing players and support output is definitely reduced.

I have tried switching to MH axe on a power-Scourge for these types of events but am not satisfied with the resulting hybrid dps. I will make a spectral Scourge and see how it fares, next.

This inconsistent performance is a larger issue for me than I first imagined. Going from more LF than I can use to not enough leaves me with an impression of an immature mechanic.

Playing other professions are still a priority, though.

@Anchoku.8142 said:As I progress slowly toward the Griffin mount, I have noticed an in consistency in Scourge's performance regarding condi builds in open world bounties and other events.

Wearing a mix of shaman's and other healing stat gear, Scourge appears to be dependent on add's for its support capability. Plenty of add's mean Scourge can support to its fullest but, when the add's run out or are not part of a bounty, the LF supply tapers off and Scourge becomes a bad support profession. I know Scourge is still playable but sceptre 2, torch, and utility skills need careful management while boss AoE keeps downing players and support output is definitely reduced.

I have tried switching to MH axe on a power-Scourge for these types of events but am not satisfied with the resulting hybrid dps. I will make a spectral Scourge and see how it fares, next.

This inconsistent performance is a larger issue for me than I first imagined. Going from more LF than I can use to not enough leaves me with an impression of an immature mechanic.

Playing other professions are still a priority, though.

Try using staff and the soul reaping staff trait, in addition to sceptor/torch

@Renita.7824 said:

@Anchoku.8142 said:As I progress slowly toward the Griffin mount, I have noticed an in consistency in Scourge's performance regarding condi builds in open world bounties and other events.

Wearing a mix of shaman's and other healing stat gear, Scourge appears to be dependent on add's for its support capability. Plenty of add's mean Scourge can support to its fullest but, when the add's run out or are not part of a bounty, the LF supply tapers off and Scourge becomes a bad support profession. I know Scourge is still playable but sceptre 2, torch, and utility skills need careful management while boss AoE keeps downing players and support output is definitely reduced.

I have tried switching to MH axe on a power-Scourge for these types of events but am not satisfied with the resulting hybrid dps. I will make a spectral Scourge and see how it fares, next.

This inconsistent performance is a larger issue for me than I first imagined. Going from more LF than I can use to not enough leaves me with an impression of an immature mechanic.

Playing other professions are still a priority, though.

Dagger/focus has way more lf generation