22k Deaths Judgement After the "fix"

So, this is meant to be balanced? 22,000damage. Well, 22,041 to be precise damage. I took ONE hit from him before i took the damage. too me, i think that having it so it passively stacks the Malice stacks is slightly lazy game design. Press 1 button and then go into stealth. Wait until Ready. Use Deaths Judgement If you're lucky you can dodge it, assuming that you obviously not fighting anyone else. because you sure as hell aint dodging it with the mass of combat effects going around.

No skill should be able to 1shot anyone. I have 1,700 Toughness (2,700Armour), so hardly zerk. Taking 22,000damage in ONE ability isnt exactly creating a skill based game. Especially when you have very little in terms of skills i can use to protect myself. No reflects to use or anything, cant reveal him to at least try and kill him. All they have to do is Mark you, go into stealth and thats it!? Seems a bit lazy in terms of pretty much everything. No attacking needed. Just go stealth stay away (not too hard) and press a single button when the passive gameplay has done its job?

inb4 "it's working as intended" :p

The fix was to make sure only large damage hits Marked targets, the fact that you got hit with the Plethora Of Tells 4 Visual, 2 Audio, the Damage doesn’t even come from stealth, it’s a L2P issue, you had a giant target above your head/Below your feet, a Orange Laser, a Red Trailing projectile, the Pojectile Audio tell, the One Shot one Kill Audio tell and a Revealed Thief... all of which if you post is to be taken seriously and they passively generated that Malice then you would have been Marked for well over 12 secs to receive that damage...

If you are marked, why are you standing there waiting for the damage?

So you're saying you had a bright red reticle over your head, and a spinning circle around your feet, for 21 seconds, and then you didn't dodge when the incredibly loud and distinctive activation sound played as the bright-red laserbeam started pointing at your character? Nothing to see here, folks.

Just FYI none of the above tell animations/effects are reduced/changed by the "Effect LoD" setting.

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:The fix was to make sure only large damage hits Marked targets, the fact that you got hit with the Plethora Of Tells 4 Visual, 2 Audio, the Damage doesn’t even come from stealth, it’s a L2P issue, you had a giant target above your head/Below your feet, a Orange Laser, a Red Trailing projectile, the Pojectile Audio tell, the One Shot one Kill Audio tell and a Revealed Thief... all of which if you post is to be taken seriously and they passively generated that Malice then you would have been Marked for well over 12 secs to receive that damage...

I got the mark, that was it. Nothing else until the hit because he went into stealth. So not exactly as if i could have stopped him. Went stealth the MOMENT he marked me. Nothing i can do to stop that, the next thing was nothing. Nothing. Nothing. Then Laser beam. Dead. Do you HONESTLY think that a single hit should be THAT punishing? Because. Simply put. No it shouldnt. I dont mind taking high damage, taking 22k damage is simply over the top.

@Tyaen.5148 said:If you are marked, why are you standing there waiting for the damage?

Well. To be fair he only has between 15-21 seconds to figure something out.

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:So, this is meant to be balanced?

It is balanced against 12 long seconds of being marked! Did you just stand still and do nothing that whole time?

Edit: Pretty sure the shot can be reflected.

@Tyaen.5148 said:If you are marked, why are you standing there waiting for the damage?

I didnt just stand there, i tried to leave. Not as if i could stop him attacking. I couldnt see him. He stayed in stealth until he used DJ. But the joys of 1,500 range on a class that has rather good mobility (to say the least) is that you're not really going to get that much of a chance to stay out of 1,500 range...

@Turk.5460 said:So you're saying you had a bright red reticle over your head, and a spinning circle around your feet, for 21 seconds, and then you didn't dodge when the incredibly loud and distinctive activation sound played as the bright-red laserbeam started pointing at your character? Nothing to see here, folks.

Just FYI none of the above tell animations/effects are reduced/changed by the "Effect LoD" setting.

I tried to find the thief, using attacks and AoE. Nothing. So i gave up and tried to escape. No chance of that happening. You mean the laser beam that there, then boom. Sure, i get why they NEED to have high damage. Just look at the likes of Vault and Backstab. This however, is simply over the top. I wonder how much damage that hit would have done to Zerk builds. I took 22,000damage with 1,700 Toughness! That is what i am saying. That kind of damage should NOT be in this game or any game with health pools as low as 11k.

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:The fix was to make sure only large damage hits Marked targets, the fact that you got hit with the Plethora Of Tells 4 Visual, 2 Audio, the Damage doesn’t even come from stealth, it’s a L2P issue, you had a giant target above your head/Below your feet, a Orange Laser, a Red Trailing projectile, the Pojectile Audio tell, the One Shot one Kill Audio tell and a Revealed Thief... all of which if you post is to be taken seriously and they passively generated that Malice then you would have been Marked for well over 12 secs to receive that damage...

You are saying you have zero defensive CDs and zero dodges? As well as to do DJ they have to be Kneeling which has a Cast Time and highly limits their Mobility, and again you had well over 12 seconds closer to 20 to do anything, the Damage isn’t instant from when they cast the skill which reveals them and shows which direction the attack is coming from and the further away you are the longer the damage takes to reach you after the 3/4 second cast time with all those Audio and Visual Tells, again this is clearly a l2p issue.

So... based on your original post, it's not one button press. It's more like 5-6 to stay in stealth. And to stay there while tracking you for those 15-21 seconds. Then it's ensuring the LOS is ok, and hoping you don't find a rare wall or hill or building to step behind..

@Strider Pj.2193 said:So... based on your original post, it's not one button press. It's more like 5-6 to stay in stealth. And to stay there while tracking you for those 15-21 seconds. Then it's ensuring the LOS is ok, and hoping you don't find a rare wall or hill or building to step behind..

Well, that would be dependent on his traits and such? as to how long his skills grant stealth for? Plus depending on the skills used to gain stealth, i didnt see anything from the Black Powder into Heartseeker stealth combo which is one i look out for as much as possible. He just sent stealth and didnt see anything in terms of such combos even to show roughly where he is or was.

Likely three of his skills grant him the stealth and trained, each press would give him about 3-4 seconds. And one is the kneel which takes away some of the mobility.

This part isn't a shot at you: try deadeye. Learn how it works so you can learn how to counter it. It isn't hard to counter. But learn how they get what they get.

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:You are saying you have zero defensive CDs and zero dodges? As well as to do DJ they have to be Kneeling which has a Cast Time and highly limits their Mobility, and again you had well over 12 seconds closer to 20 to do anything, the Damage isn’t instant from when they cast the skill which reveals them and shows which direction the attack is coming from and the further away you are the longer the damage takes to reach you after the 3/4 second cast time with all those Audio and Visual Tells, again this is clearly a l2p issue.

What defenses would a Scourge have? Barrier? Yeah still take 17k damage damage, assuming that Desert Shroud is used at the exact right time to make it so that its up and not degrading the moment the attack lands.

Do anything? I tried. I tried to find him. Nothing. AoE didnt proc anything around the areas and given WvW is rather big area not as if you can tell where hes going to be. After like 5-10seconds of trying to find him and hope i got lucky, i tried to leave. Guess what Necro lacks? Mobility.

Taking 22,000 damage while having 1.7k Toughness is 100% not a L2P issue. Its a balance issue. One that tends to get Thieves saying its fine. One that others point is rather broken. I am fine with taking high damage, i do think NO class. No build should be able to do 22k in a single hit. Even with the .75second tell (assuming you can see it if you're lucky enough to be in the right area, not in group fight and such) shouldnt really be able to down pretty much anyone that is zerk (except maybe Warrior as even with zerk they have insane health and armour)

And that type of damage against toughness isn't very common if the Thief was running Shadow Arts, the traitline that grants stealth and increases it's duration.

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:So... based on your original post, it's not one button press. It's more like 5-6 to stay in stealth. And to stay there while tracking you for those 15-21 seconds. Then it's ensuring the LOS is ok, and hoping you don't find a rare wall or hill or building to step behind..

Shadow art +mark + kneel traited + shadow meld. You should only see small black/orange effects nothing much. But it means he only has 1-2 Dj up his sleeve.

BTW, if the guy is super skilled, he can use action cam + pop gun. You won't get any laser and the sound will be reduced. He will still be revealed before the end of the shoot though.....

My advise is for you to count the malice stacks, just like you would time an attack on elixir or waiting against war invulns

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:So... based on your original post, it's not one button press. It's more like 5-6 to stay in stealth. And to stay there while tracking you for those 15-21 seconds. Then it's ensuring the LOS is ok, and hoping you don't find a rare wall or hill or building to step behind..

One trait extends stealth skills not combo fields by 1 second only, so it’s still 4-6 skills used to stealth and if they were using their kneel charges that’s more time not moving to cast and recast Kneel which charges have CDs and if they are using the Elite, charges with Hefty CDs, and Blinding Powder, and if they used SR a giant tell on location then it’s even larger l2p issue.

tbh, its all about being either dumb or having a l2p issue. Maybe both. 3 rounds burst is a bigger problem than DJ and it isnt even a problem. As far as I know, the only class that could have absolutly nothing to fully negate DJ is...not in GW2. Unless you were already out of endurance/blocks/evades/invuln because you were already in a fight, there is no reason to cry about DJ. And even if you were out of every defensive tools because you were already in a fight, there is still no reasons to cry about DJ because it was 1v2 anyways and anything with decent damage jumping in would have killed you anyways.

There is so many los/walls and cliffs to avoid DJ. On top of that, WvW isnt perfectly optimized and a flat field can even give a no valid path message to the Deadeye.

Also, is it possible to stay in stealth for 15+ sec and have enough initiative to use DJ and make DJ reveal you and not get out of stealth early then be able to use DJ?

Honestly, between this, the Mesmer one shot thread and the salt about weaver one shotting people (and for the record, none of these are one skill one damage amount) it's good to see that power has a reason to be feared again.

It's nice to see they all have significant risk as well.

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:One trait extends stealth skills not combo fields by 1 second only, so it’s still 4-6 skills used to stealth and if they were using their kneel charges that’s more time not moving to cast and recast Kneel which charges have CDs and if they are using the Elite, charges with Hefty CDs, and Blinding Powder, and if they used SR a giant tell on location then it’s even larger l2p issue.

He 100% didnt use Refuge. I didnt see anything in terms of tells of where he was using skills to stay in stealth, but with 1,500 range burst damage. That doesnt mean he didnt use something like the Black Powder + Heartseeker combo. I just wouldnt have been able to see it.

@Strider Pj.2193 said:Honestly, between this, the Mesmer one shot thread and the salt about weaver one shotting people (and for the record, none of these are one skill one damage amount) it's good to see that power has a reason to be feared again.

It's nice to see they all have significant risk as well.

Significant risk? No. Not at all. 1,500Range 22k damage that if it fails can restealth and run away. That is NOT carrying significant risk. I dont think any class in this game should be able to kill someone with a single hit. Especially after all this Anet talk about skill. Sure, spamming stealth skills at the right time takes a little skill, minimal but skill none the less. Its not skill based. If it fails. they stealth and run. ACTUAL risk is threat of death if you fail. Mesmer is the same. You fail? Stealth and run, teleport and run, stealth and teleport and run.

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:Honestly, between this, the Mesmer one shot thread and the salt about weaver one shotting people (and for the record, none of these are one skill one damage amount) it's good to see that power has a reason to be feared again.

It's nice to see they all have significant risk as well.

Have you tried to pull either of them off yourself?

Even though it has tells, I cannot agree with a single skill being able to do so much damage in a single hit. I really do think it needs to be nerfed, likewise with skills on other classes that can hit that hard in a single skill. Yes, this includes mind wrack. I think its absolutely disgusting at the higher end if you set it up correctly, how much damage just that one shatter can do.

'If you set it up correctly' being the key phrase.

Maybe I'm salty... maybe I am tired of power hate... people finally being given some ability to, under the right circumstances, hit like a truck, but also be wrecked if they mess up..

The people doing these damages areGlass cannons.

And are we really saying that 2.7k armor is tanky? Really? With less than 22k health on a necro. You weren't in a roaming spec, I get it.