Do you like the concept of kneel?

Many of us thieves have been providing feedback to Anet about our thoughts on Kneel. I think a poll could summarise our opinions for better clarity.

I really like the concept or kneel. I really do. Thematically it fits and something feels good about dropping to a knee, stealthing and then raining down fire. Having said that, it feels a bit wonky atm. A huge fix for this would be in dodges canceling kneel. This would add some much needed fluidity to the process.

This is second biggest reason for not being interested in rifle deadeye. The first is that the spec has no cleave, lol.

Movement and dodging should break the kneel. If an opponent can force you dodge and break your kneel, I think that's actually a decent counterplay mechanic. Sniper's Cover baseline, but at 2 initiative, free action at 1 initiative, which would remove the movement impairing conditions, but you wouldn't be forced to use it to stand up. A roll could be added in place of 3RB so you have an ability that would allow you to stay kneeling, but evade. Move 3RB into Double Tap's place. There's not enough damage while standing, and 3RB/DJ compete with each other while kneeling. Those things would hopefully harmonize rifle instead of having it fight with itself.

I like the concept of kneel, and it is actually fun to play deadeye as is. I prefer not to break kneel with dodge, for example i use daredevil rune, it give me 100% crit rate upon dodge, if it break my kneel, it is no good.

If I could easily switch off my number 5 key for when I swap traits to deadeye, I would. The only time I use Kneel is when I accidentally press it when trying to use Death's Retreat.

I've been using it a lot with Silent Scope, feels good for the most part, except sometimes maybe I'm hitting it too fast and it doesn't respond so I'll remain in Kneel when I think I'm about to move but it doesn't happen too much. The cast time on everything combined with lag in some modes and skill queue makes Kneel and some other deadeye skills feel like dragging through mud a bit but that's mostly in sloppy zerg fights.

I get why movement and dodge skiills dont break kneel, but i wish that jumping would.

The execution is mega trash tier.

Guild Wars 2 was designed to be a game that requires the player to constantly move around. Suddenly they introduce a mechanic for one single weapon for one single spec that requires the player to kneel while not providing any actual defense, no real damage boost considering the other mechanic Malice that is the most stupid thing since Ghostbusters 2016, and just overall a lot of poorly conceived, designed and implemented weapon skills.

I like the concept of kneel since it theoretically allows us to deal melee level of damage at range; it is the same concept of BLM from FF14 with it's cast times and being immobile while casting to make up for it's nuke level of damage. The problem with A-nets version of it though is that they didn't buff the numbers to compensate for the kneel which is why it is in the state it is now.

I like the concept because i know that it can work. It worked fine in SWtoR for example and it works fine in Games where attacks "root" you in place.

The main problem is that it is just clunky, Line of Sight breaks the core mechanic of marking a target so that its better to swap weapons than to use a crippled rifle, and since literally every single new enemy can throw, pull or knock down it feels especially clunky.Against core-enemies the kneeling works just fine, but HoT and PoF enemies are horrible.So the problem isnt the kneeling, its the environment.

Also the "theoretical" melee damage at range is just that, theoretical. The numbers need to be adjusted, malice needs a bigger role for other skills other than DJ and of course the rifle needs more piercing abilities to actually hit your mark

The concept is great, but I think the execution could have been way better. I'd just have made it automatic after standing still for 5 seconds, and make it cancel automatically when any movement key is pressed or if you are moved by something else like a launch.

This would have allowed the mechanic to work with other weapons (increased range/damage on pistol, shortbow, weapon based shadowsteps or throws) not saddled rifle with a smaller skill selection in moving fights, and added more overall value and build diversity for condition and non-stealth builds. It also would have still made sense for rifle to be the only weapon with flip skills with different effects since its the spec weapon while still providing interesting kneel interactions with just a basic range/damage buff for other weapons to compensate for the loss of steal's shadowstep to target and the fact you're probably going to use kneel less on other weapons.

Definitely like the concept of hunkering down at a position and throwing down fire from afar. Of all the issues I have with the Deadeye, Kneel isn't one of them.

î do like the kneeling but i think you should reliably hit your target while kneeling. the problem here is that it is a projectile and not a cast, for projectiles to hit through a crowd of opponents we only got piercing so far.the only way i could immagine it would be like: fireing a shot while kneeling fires a piecing bullet, that does not do any damage or condition but when it hits the target you are aming at, it procs a 'cast' that delivers the damage/conditions. this way you would hit your target easier in a crowd of hostile targets, while not taking the option from its mates to help with projectile hate.

At least jump should break the kneel and also kneel skills should be different not just the same with more damage, could be kneel skills piercing but same damage or kneel skills aoe and not kneel single target. As the moment is completely garbage, also there's no fast way to get out of kneel, only switch weapons.

@MUDse.7623 said:î do like the kneeling but i think you should reliably hit your target while kneeling. the problem here is that it is a projectile and not a cast, for projectiles to hit through a crowd of opponents we only got piercing so far.the only way i could immagine it would be like: fireing a shot while kneeling fires a piecing bullet, that does not do any damage or condition but when it hits the target you are aming at, it procs a 'cast' that delivers the damage/conditions. this way you would hit your target easier in a crowd of hostile targets, while not taking the option from its mates to help with projectile hate.I like this idea. I suggested something similar in the malice generation rate thread. It would have made a very unique theme for thief rifle, although mine would have basically ignored projectile hate while allowing personal blocks and similar to still work.

I'm starting to get the hang of the kneeling mechanism but the one thing that I don't understand is why there's a stack limitation to this skill ?It already has 'cast time' and costs initiative. A poor use of this skill (that doesn't affect nor damage anyone) is already deadly and spamming it won't get you anywhere.If it's to limitate the use of stealth on trait, just add the stack on the trait itself.

Also, Death's Judgement desperately NEEDS a damage buff in PvE. I heard they don't want to split skills mechanisms between each game mode, but they can alter the stats. So it should be acceptable.

@Tabootrinket.2631 said:I'm starting to get the hang of the kneeling mechanism but the one thing that I don't understand is why there's a stack limitation to this skill ?

Because effortless perma stealth.

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Tabootrinket.2631 said:I'm starting to get the hang of the kneeling mechanism but the one thing that I don't understand is why there's a stack limitation to this skill ?

They could easily get around this by giving the ability unlimited kneels when you don't have Silent Scope traited.

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Tabootrinket.2631 said:I'm starting to get the hang of the kneeling mechanism but the one thing that I don't understand is why there's a stack limitation to this skill ?

And as I said like right after that (two lines below), they could incorporate the stack or an equivalent limitation on stealth when the trait is activated (like a cooldown)

@Tabootrinket.2631 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Tabootrinket.2631 said:I'm starting to get the hang of the kneeling mechanism but the one thing that I don't understand is why there's a stack limitation to this skill ?

I don't see why you'd need to spam kneel that much without stealth anyways? Unless you want it to be used by some filthy macro spammers to kneel+shoot+stand up their every single shot.

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Tabootrinket.2631 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Tabootrinket.2631 said:I'm starting to get the hang of the kneeling mechanism but the one thing that I don't understand is why there's a stack limitation to this skill ?

Death Judgement is only available while kneeling. With the 2 sacks you rapidly reach the limit of kneeling, making you unable to use the skill that's supposed to make you capitalize on your malice and initiative that you carefully stacked up. Even though it's the only way to somehow make up (sort of) for the low overall dps.You can't survive if you spend the whole fight kneeling. You gotta stand up to efficiently avoid the constant AoE fields going your way.

@Tabootrinket.2631 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Tabootrinket.2631 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Tabootrinket.2631 said:I'm starting to get the hang of the kneeling mechanism but the one thing that I don't understand is why there's a stack limitation to this skill ?

But if you stand up then your damage output becomes SUPER SHITE. For some reason doing damage with Rifle is dependent on Kneeling rather than RANGE of the rifle.

@Tabootrinket.2631 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Tabootrinket.2631 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Tabootrinket.2631 said:I'm starting to get the hang of the kneeling mechanism but the one thing that I don't understand is why there's a stack limitation to this skill ?

The stack generation time isn't long enough to stand in the way of using it like you described.

@Sobx.1758 Have you tried though ? In fractal situations or the like (and I mean lvl 90+ to 100)? Because that's exactly how I play it. It's plenty long enough for the floor to become deadly lava.And sometimes you miss the opportunity to do a well needed last Death Judgement before the malice fades away.

@Ellisande.5218 You stand up to get away from the fields while letting the auto attacks do some chip damage, then kneel immediately when you want to take any meaningful action. Even if it includes auto-attacks. The idea of the Deadeye, from what I've heard from the devs is to commit on your attack or suffer from damage reduction but gaining a way to jump out to safety. It actually makes the class more dynamic than expected by choosing between two stances focused either on escaping or damaging. The only problem is, there's no reward from the 'offensive' stance, since you can't switch whenever you want, and don't get a significant enough damage burst reward from that one shot you've carefully prepared.