Vs Ranged?

So how do you guys handle it? We lack ALL the actual defenses against it such as reflections, good projectile destruction, leaps, teleports that cant be easily interrupted, communities, invuls and such. So how do you fight someone that starts the fight 1,200+ range away from you face palm melting you with damage before you are even in range to attack them? I havent even found a good way to attack them, if i am jumped. 99% of the time i already know how its going to end...

When I played Necro, I would soak up as much as possible using the ample shroud, or hide behind structures, but not anymore. I don't play Necro because it's gimped. Fighting against kiters was never easy, and often I would die even at our zenith.

The developers have failed us and then nerfed us after THAT. It makes one weep really... maybe some RP will make me feel better. /e cries. Boohoo. /facepalm /cry

@Svarty.8019 said:When I played Necro, I would soak up as much as possible using the ample shroud, or hide behind structures, but not anymore. I don't play Necro because it's kitten. Fighting against kiters was never easy, and often I would die even at our zenith.

The developers have failed us and then nerfed us after THAT. It makes one weep really... maybe some RP will make me feel better. /e cries. Boohoo. /facepalm /cry

Yep, i cant really see a open world situation where you can't run into a tower, keep or a camp where a Necro could actually beat a Ranged player. Scourge suffers from this the most, Reaper KINDA has the chance due to Reaper Shourd does have 1 skill that is antri range and closes the gap, base necro can hit from range though will be out ranged a lot, hits hard but also quite easy to avoid. Scourge. Dead.

You dnt do vs ranged now more than ever! I use the 1201 to waypoint unless i can hide behind a mob and atk at the exact right time. One gap closer = not cool.

Have the corrosive cloud ready to destroy that projectiles and you have 8 seconds to think about a solution. Staff does range attack and with some fear you have time to get closer to your enemy. If you place that corr. cloud between you and your enemy you can get closer. Then bomb him with all you have. Plus our two dodges that we have.At least for half of your pistol thiefs or longbow rangers that works.

@Galmac.4680 said:Have the corrosive cloud ready to destroy that projectiles and you have 8 seconds to think about a solution. Staff does range attack and with some fear you have time to get closer to your enemy. If you place that corr. cloud between you and your enemy you can get closer. Then bomb him with all you have. Plus our two dodges that we have.At least for half of your pistol thiefs or longbow rangers that works.

If you beat ANY ranged player because of Corrosive Cloud, That just shows they are a REALLY bad player. Easily countered. The problem is. Once you're out of that and moving towards them while they are moving away you're still taking damage with ZERO way to counter that damage other than a few REALLY bad skills that seems to have had projectile destruction placed on them for the sake of saying that Necro can counter ranged . You have nothing. You finally get into range (if you live long enough...) You're CC'ed and/or riddled with Cripples, Immob and such and boom. Target practice.

More than Base or Reaper, Shroud NEEDED to have counters to range as they dont have that "meat shield" which really is barely one, they dont have things like Dark Path or VERY good Deaths Charge 600 Range leap that destroys Projectiles on a >5second cool down (traited)? yes please. What i would have loved to have seen is Harrowing Wave changed.

Make it so it engulfs the Necro with Something (Lol) that destroys projectiles granting Life Force for each one destroyed (like 1%) This "shield" lasts 5seconds or you can press it again to destroy the shield and release the AoE attack like normal.

Deadeyes who know that they have skill 4 (shadowstep backwards) on Rifle (a significant number of Deadeyes never use it for some reason) are unkillable in open field and Staff+LB Druids are unkillable in open field. As usual: we are talking about same skill levels here.

The only solution is: Avoid open field fights vs. these builds.

In general: Use as much movement impairing stuff (chills/cripples with cover conditions) and hard CC -> burst combos as possible.

Corrosive Poison Cloud is a wasted utility slot. Opponents you kill with it are so bad, that you could also kill them without it.

5% Shroud degen + 10s Shroud CD are resulting in being RS2 5/6s cooldown useless. Most of the time you can't use the skill twice in one Shroud uptime. That's a big problem in fights vs. ranged builds. With old 7s Speed of Shadows and 2% degen I had never any gap closing issues on Reaper (but usually lacked damage, so I would not say that everything was better a year ago - it wasn't!).

@KrHome.1920 said:Deadeyes who know that they have skill 4 (shadowstep backwards) on Rifle (a significant number of Deadeyes never use it for some reason) are unkillable in open field and Staff+LB Druids are unkillable in open field. As usual: we are talking about same skill levels here.

The only solution is: Avoid open field fights vs. these builds.

In general: Use as much movement impairing stuff (chills/cripples with cover conditions) and hard CC -> burst combos as possible.

Corrosive Poison Cloud is a wasted utility slot. Opponents you kill with it are so bad, that you could also kill them without it.

5% Shroud degen + 10s Shroud CD are resulting in being RS2 5/6s cooldown useless. Most of the time you can't use the skill twice in one Shroud uptime. That's a big problem in fights vs. ranged builds. With old 7s Speed of Shadows and 2% degen I had never any gap closing issues on Reaper (but usually lacked damage, so I would not say that everything was better a year ago - it wasn't!).

Yep, any ranged person that dies because of Corrosive Cloud would have died any way because its such a useless skill that is easily countered. I could see why Base Necro wouldnt be allowed to have solid Ranged counters, though they still need it a little. Scourge without a doubt NEEDS it, less health due to no longer having Shroud, poor range on Shroud skills when people can kill you from 1,500 range.

CPC should also immobilize to be somewhat useful in PvP

there is nothing to handle, your only hope is the opponent to go afk, otherwise you die and die and die again no matter what.

Just try to run into a keep or tower. Only safe way

Use spectral walk and run away. if enemy is chasing you, you port back to your startposition when your enemy reached this position.

I got 2 old videos here showing how to fight Longbow Druids, including the dreaded Longbow/Staff Druids.The method still works on a power Reaper, just A LOT harder compared to back when condi Reaper was a thing and 7 seconds shroud was a thing.Not to mention we are almost defenseless now =)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7rZ68L3yRE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyuCBCTqizE

@Zero.3871 said:Use spectral walk and run away. if enemy is chasing you, you port back to your startposition when your enemy reached this position.

You have port as an option, assuming you havent been hit. The problem is. You can't outrun 90% of the classes. You MIGHT be able to against a Guardian if they aren't using Greatsword or anything but other than that. Who would lose a race against a Necro, Reaper or Scourge? It surely says something that your options are to:

1) Run - Where you wont actually be able to out run 90% of builds and even then the 10% would have to be running specific anti mobility builds and weapons2) Port home

These surely show that Necro, Reaper and Scourge are in some VERY serious need of help when coming up against Ranged players.

really, you can't even take down one single player...and a ranger no less, take reaper and keep your gear balanced.always have a flesh golem with you, that way you can keep the ranger busy while keeping him in check.take the staff as secondary weapon, it will help you keeping him in one spot, when he keeps on healing use fear and freeze him at any time you can.

remember, dead shroud is your friend ;)

@sorudo.9054 said:really, you can't even take down one single player...and a ranger no less, take reaper and keep your gear balanced.always have a flesh golem with you, that way you can keep the ranger busy while keeping him in check.take the staff as secondary weapon, it will help you keeping him in one spot, when he keeps on healing use fear and freeze him at any time you can.

remember, dead shroud is your friend ;)

yeah, i havent lost to a Reaper as a Ranger. Ever. Though too be fair. Jumping them and doing 10k+ damage from 1,500 range does tend to help. Combine that with blocks, stealth, CC both melee and range, Knockbacks, evades and plenty of immob, why fear a Reaper, Necro or Scourge lol

its easy. i kill ranged all day with 2 simple utilities. poison cloud and signet of spite. and its not just good against ranged. signet of spite makes theifs run.

Everything Ash said is correct.

@needbeer.1687 said:its easy. i kill ranged all day with 2 simple utilities. poison cloud and signet of spite. and its not just good against ranged. signet of spite makes theifs run.

My condition removal would laugh at Signet of Spite. My evades, kiting and stealth would make Poison Cloud wasted.

Line of sight them. Make them come to you if they want to fight, utilize flesh worm or sand swell. Fear them and run in the opposite direction. Burst combo them, if they're evading and healing then you aren't getting hit

@Egorum.9506 said:Line of sight them. Make them come to you if they want to fight, utilize flesh worm or sand swell. Fear them and run in the opposite direction. Burst combo them, if they're evading and healing then you aren't getting hit

Well, i can heal, remove conditions and attack at the same time on my Soulbeast, Out range you. Evade. Remove conditions, kite, stealth, burst damage, have more mobility and gap closers if you try to run, melee blocks and CC as well.

Line of sight isnt a viable tactic, because it is 100% reliant on your current location. Make them come to you? when they can shoot you from 1,200-1,500 range? They dont even need to be in YOUR range for them to melt you. I havent lost once to a Reaper or a Scourge on my Soulbeast. The 5k+ auto attack hits from 1,500 range does tend to help just a little bit.

@"EremiteAngel.9765" said:I got 2 old videos here showing how to fight Longbow Druids, including the dreaded Longbow/Staff Druids.The method still works on a power Reaper, just A LOT harder compared to back when condi Reaper was a thing and 7 seconds shroud was a thing.Not to mention we are almost defenseless now =)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7rZ68L3yRE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyuCBCTqizE

I can see you are barely hitting him for about half the damage he is hitting you with.. Longbow skill 2 chain hits you for 5-9k while you are hardsy getting of full 3k on full offense on him...

Yeah, Reaper is an a real good spot #sarcasm

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Egorum.9506 said:Line of sight them. Make them come to you if they want to fight, utilize flesh worm or sand swell. Fear them and run in the opposite direction. Burst combo them, if they're evading and healing then you aren't getting hit

You are correct, ranger is the worst match up for necro. That doesn't mean that necros cannot kill rangers, nor does it mean that every single match up against one is instant and unavoidable death. Those are things you can do to draw the match out in your favor (until a teammate can assist). If the ranger wants your nuts, they can chase you until they're in a choke point, or near a pillar to los around- both of which favors the necro for the same reasons bunker druids use the tactic.

As for the killer soulbeast burst combo, that wins every time: Trail of anguish when you see the LB come out and expect the burst sequence to start so you don't get knocked back, dodge as soon as lb2 starts. Eat the f3 attack, dodge at the end of it to avoid the knockdown, walk away from worldly impact. Congratulations, the Soulbeast did 5k damage and has no burst left. Proceed to condi load!

@Egorum.9506 said:You are correct, ranger is the worst match up for necro. That doesn't mean that necros cannot kill rangers, nor does it mean that every single match up against one is instant and unavoidable death. Those are things you can do to draw the match out in your favor (until a teammate can assist). If the ranger wants your nuts, they can chase you until they're in a choke point, or near a pillar to los around- both of which favors the necro for the same reasons bunker druids use the tactic.

As for the killer soulbeast burst combo, that wins every time: Trail of anguish when you see the LB come out and expect the burst sequence to start so you don't get knocked back, dodge as soon as lb2 starts. Eat the f3 attack, dodge at the end of it to avoid the knockdown, walk away from worldly impact. Congratulations, the Soulbeast did 5k damage and has no burst left. Proceed to condi load!

I am talking about WvW when you are out in the world and cant rely on friends to do everything for you. It is death. You cant escape. You can't kill. Yeah, i do 5k auto attack hits from 1,500 range. My rapid fire can hit upwards of 15k. As i have said, never lost to a Reaper or Scourge. Even when they have gotten the jump on me, its still rather easy to get stealth up get into a good position and open up on them and watch them melt.

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Zero.3871 said:Use spectral walk and run away. if enemy is chasing you, you port back to your startposition when your enemy reached this position.

The ranger is the counter class of the necro, no doubt about it. But, why don't we mention a few other facts. For one, a condi mesmer will eat any ranger to death just as much, or more than a ranger will kill a scourge. For another point, when on my scourge, a ranger will win a majority of the time, however, i will win a bigger majority of the time over warrior/guard/engineerng/thief/power reaper/. A scourge is currently anti-melee. The only counter is range. To ask to become anti-range as well is borderline greedy.

Let me put it this way: Let's say we give the scourge/necro an anti-range skill. If this is done, shouldn't we give every melee class some anti-scourge skills to compete with them in this current meta? Would only be fair, as these melee classes would lose the majority of 1v1 against a scourge.