The Logical Fix

I've said it in detail in another thread- but would like to say it bullet point in this one.

• give wvw the mega-server map system - so all matches are full all of the time. europe, asia, and na
• make wvw based guilds tethered to a specific match for ranking. - the gvg element. ( guilds have to register in wvw for ranking, and members have to opt in - so pve guilds / players aren't forced into it )
• non wvw guilded players get matched up with their relative ranks - this keeps it fun for casual vs hardcore roamers and ensures serious gvgrs get serious mercenary roamers. (not everyone aspires to be a diamond rank - that's not a casual rank )
• guilds match ups are based on rank.the fights would not only be fair , but completely self balancing based on how hard you or your guild plays. - if you want to play new and skilled people, join a better guild or play harder to rank higher. If you want to train new players to be a top guild - start a new guild and train new players to quickly bring your guild to tier 1 fights

the people that need to be #1 can discuss what the leader boards rank as a top guild. - top player leader boards would simply be highest rank. - highest ranks in leaderboards gets a dolyak mount for pve - but if the title is lost, their access to the dolyak mount is lost also.

For guild leader boards, i do suggest ranking based on a current type - 60 - 120 day average, and not something simply cumulative - so one person can never exploit a glitch and become king forever scenario. Plus it would allow a new skilled group to jump up the ladder quick. To keep the T1 talent fresh, competitive. While you can have a great history, this doesn't necessarily mean you are the current reigning champ.

• give wvw the mega-server map system - so all matches are full all of the time. europe, asia, and naUuuuuuugh we have been over this again and again and again.

Europe, US and Asia are seperate regions for a kitten reason. The same reason ESO Cyrodil kitten bombed on release in the EU - playing on US servers from the EU is broken kitten.

You want to kill WvW? Because this is how you kill WvW. Seems logical.

you don't need all 3 to make it work, it would still work with just NA.

Yes, kill the current wvw system please, it's very broken.

I can say with confidence that the OP does not know the meaning of "logical". in this case. We have been over this and debunked these bad ideas repeatedly.

you can say anything with confidence, and no facts to back it up, doesn't make it right. I'll say that with absolute confidence.

in fact lets throw in a theory, anyone that opposes this is concerned about losing their spot in wvw, regardless if it's unfair or not. Nothing scarier than fighting people your rank.

would give this a go

@Ricky.4706 said:I've said it in detail in another thread- but would like to say it bullet point in this one.

• give wvw the mega-server map system - so all matches are full all of the time. europe, asia, and na

if you keep the regions seperate id be ok with this - i dont want to fight with high ping or against that high ping.

@Ricky.4706 said:

• make wvw based guilds tethered to a specific match for ranking. - the gvg element. ( guilds have to register in wvw for ranking, and members have to opt in - so pve guilds / players aren't forced into it )

so you can select wich of your guilds you are joining with or if you go solo ?

@Ricky.4706 said:

• non wvw guilded players get matched up with their relative ranks - this keeps it fun for casual vs hardcore roamers and ensures serious gvgrs get serious mercenary roamers. (not everyone aspires to be a diamond rank - that's not a casual rank )

i dont think most of the non guilded high ranks are hardcore roamers, as hardcore roamers will be rather on medium ranks like 3-6k, the really high ones are more into karmatrains and blob fights were it rains WXP.

@Ricky.4706 said:

• top player leader boards would simply be highest rank. - highest ranks in leaderboards gets a dolyak mount for pve - but if the title is lost, their access to the dolyak mount is lost also.

i dont think you will be able to rank anyone top player overall in WvW. maybe top player in diffrent categories like : most player kills, most walls/gates destroyed , most objectives captured / defended , most yaks killed /defended and for roamers maybe a stomps/deaths ratio.but you wont be able to rank someone #1 in overall efficency for the team as there are too many 'roles' or playstyles in WvW.

we could use the pvp q so both sides has atleast the minimum number. in the least it would be fair

Firstly thank you to those looking at this in a positive light, at one point I knew better than to mention the idea because "server pride" was once a thing, but that has diminshed in value with the linkings. The linkings were a good attempt at balancing things, unfortunately what ultimately happened is that it exacerbated the outnumbered problem. I'm sure small kinks may come up in the idea, but I believe those can be worked out rather than shot down, at this point anything is better than the current system of ranking.

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Ricky.4706 said:I've said it in detail in another thread- but would like to say it bullet point in this one.

• give wvw the mega-server map system - so all matches are full all of the time. europe, asia, and na

Fair enough, perhaps some of those regions of players would have a chance to transfer over to NA servers if they have the internet speed.

@Ricky.4706 said:

• make wvw based guilds tethered to a specific match for ranking. - the gvg element. ( guilds have to register in wvw for ranking, and members have to opt in - so pve guilds / players aren't forced into it )

Yes, basically to give a person the freedom to go in with the guild for ranking, or go solo for fun to practice with their ranking range. Part of the idea is to keep it casual so people can play / practice with people of their same rank, and still have the opportunity to play with higher ranks with their guilds, which would also balance out because if they lose, their guild doesn't rank up.

@Ricky.4706 said:

• non wvw guilded players get matched up with their relative ranks - this keeps it fun for casual vs hardcore roamers and ensures serious gvgrs get serious mercenary roamers. (not everyone aspires to be a diamond rank - that's not a casual rank )

none the less it's still experience, it's something to go by in flight hours rather than mixing in a rank 10 with a rank 2k. Rank 10 will likely be people who just want to do the daily, where as rank 2k has done this 1,000 times - they know the drill.. So while karma train isn't skill at least they know how to run with a group......- as opposed to doing a daily. Maybe they simply don't know what it's like to be on a map without paper towers, where the struggle is real and you need every man on point to survive an organized defense. Karma train will happen in an environment that allows it.

@Ricky.4706 said:

• top player leader boards would simply be highest rank. - highest ranks in leaderboards gets a dolyak mount for pve - but if the title is lost, their access to the dolyak mount is lost also.

well that's why I mentioned it's open to debate in the guild community - part of this idea is to separate hardcore ranking from people who just want to have fun on free time. People who want to have fun, won't have high ranks - a good guild will have the core bases covered, along with a good commander that can run the non guilded players on the map. - which is what the karma trainers you mentioned before will most likely gravitate to when not capping camps and paper towers.

Not all wvw players want to be pro, and this offers a way to naturally allow people to play with like minds. I'm sure the karma trainer will tweak their habits once they see it no longer works around real talent, but at least by then they did the wax - on / wax off routine for a few thousand ranks to know the basics.

and ranks under 100 will just be starting to learn the art of karma training and blobbing each other as well. The higher up the fights, the more of the skilled guilds will be present to teach advanced tactics to experienced players ( regardless of skill level )

@Sovereign.1093 said:we could use the pvp q so both sides has atleast the minimum number. in the least it would be fair

and full, because part of the issue now is when no one else from my server or linked server are on when I have time to play and we are outnumbered 10+ to 1 - i mean 60 man blobs from both sides coming at us at the same time...- at the very least whomever is on is assigned to an active map. The linked servers work, when everyone is on.....sometimes those player hours have a burst of weekend attendance and during the week it's mostly outnumbered until like 3-4 am. my local time. I enjoy my teams very much, and we have been working very well together, so I have no desire to put them down, but they simply aren't always on and that's nothing you can complain about to your server, because people have to work and go to school, that's something to say the match up system should consider.

yup. i love wvw, after work its like ok lets go kill some. hehe. so i hope they take care of this game mode and listen tk us for feedback

I was just thinking that this will even give space for a non violent community who doesn't want to fight at all and just role play in the mists. Simply keep your rank as low as possible and maybe anet could even add a mechanic that allows you to lower your rank to live in a more peaceful world.....all the places in wvw turn friendly and green for ranks say - 0-5 ( for doing daily ) - but you have a chance to work off your misdeeds by doing some sort of public service lol. - the whole role play aspect is also important to me because this gives the game a personal user created story and meaning.

Only the hardest of criminals go to tier 1 , pray for them. #praisejoko

@Ricky.4706 said:I was just thinking about this, but this will even give space for a non violent community who doesn't want to fight at all and just role play in the mists. Simply keep your rank as low as possible and don't kill anything. ^.^

no for roleplaying you will not just want to kill your enemy team but also your commander if is bad or just a bully or what ever. who said roleplayers are nonviolent ? :D

haha, priceless, and now they'd have a mode where they can act their whole role play to death ( without worrying about a zerg face rolling them lol ) - but if you go beyond rank 6, then wvw plays a cut scene, and you start an instance where the guards become hostile to you. - you will always have quests to lower your rank back to a simple life, that is unless you reach a rank of no return :/you could really have fun with it from a roleplay perspective, and only a serious role player will want to stay under rank 5 lol

What i've read:

• change WvW to become EotM.
• give preferential treatment to guilds.

I don't want to awaken you but guilds are not that important for WvW. Sure it's good and all to have a good teamplay, to be able to crush your adversary through the lead of a competent leader and the support of great teammate but WvW is a lot more than just that. It's a game mode where servers (not guilds) fight each other over territory and the competitive aspect is traduced by the "points" they get at the end of the week, showing how much they covered the field over the week. Guilds play cover, what... 4-6 hours a day per server maybe... which is less than 25% of what WvW is.

@Dadnir.5038 said:... and the competitive aspect is traduced by the "points" they get at the end of the week...

Except the points aspect is so badly designed (in conjunction with the map design, how imbalanced server populations are and how a 3 way system is a farce competitively) that "competitively" it is a total joke so is basically ignored by most players who are not either very new to WvW or a few that either through ignorance or choice play in a state of suspended disbelief in regard to the "competitiveness" of WvW and "winning" the points game.

@Ricky.4706 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:i dont think most of the non guilded high ranks are hardcore roamers, as hardcore roamers will be rather on medium ranks like 3-6k, the really high ones are more into karmatrains and blob fights were it rains WXP.

none the less it's still experience, it's something to go by in flight hours rather than mixing in a rank 10 with a rank 2k. Rank 10 will likely be people who just want to do the daily, where as rank 2k has done this 1,000 times - they know the drill.. So while karma train isn't skill at least they know how to run with a group......- as opposed to doing a daily. Maybe they simply don't know what it's like to be on a map without paper towers, where the struggle is real and you need every man on point to survive an organized defense. Karma train will happen in an environment that allows it.

Just a point of clarification, someone with far less wvw experience could have a much higher rank than someone with greater experience if the former ktrained and the latter was a roamer. One of the main reasons for this is how wxp is awarded. Imagine a scenario where 1 person kills 5 people and takes a tower all alone, and another scenario where 30 people kill the same 5 people and take the tower together. Even though the person on their own pulled off one helluva difficult caper, s/he'd get the same experience as each of the 30 people who collectively did the same thing with less individual effort and skill required. Moreover, the group of 30 would be done faster, and so would be able to get more wxp from other lopsided fights, collectively taking empty structures, etc.

So the point MUDse raised (I think) is if you put a roamers with rank 2k in the same grouping as a ktrainers with 2k rank, then the roamers will roll over them due to far more in-game time and fight experience.

@Choppy.4183 said:Just a point of clarification, someone with far less wvw experience could have a much higher rank that someone with greater experience if the former ktrained and the latter was a roamer.

When I see a Diamond Ranked dude, I instantly assume he is a garbage K-trainer. And I'm right most of the time. There are very few competent Diamond Players that I know.

How can you ever expect WvW to be competitive when it's been designed to be casual?

It's been designed so tasks can be completed by as few as one person up to a map blob.The outmanned buff should never exist in a competitive game mode.

There's nothing that balances a match when you log in.There's nothing that balances skills/classes.There's nothing that balances map issues.

There's been no hot fixes for population issues in a match.There's been no hot fixes for WvW skills.There's been no hot fixes for map issues/exploits.

You will never get WvW to be competitive because at its core it's been designed to be anything but competitive.

@Swamurabi.7890 said:How can you ever expect WvW to be competitive when it's been designed to be casual?

It's been designed so tasks can be completed by as few as one person up to a map blob.The outmanned buff should never exist in a competitive game mode.

There's nothing that balances a match when you log in.There's nothing that balances skills/classes.There's nothing that balances map issues.

There's been no hot fixes for population issues in a match.There's been no hot fixes for WvW skills.There's been no hot fixes for map issues/exploits.

You will never get WvW to be competitive because at its core it's been designed to be anything but competitive.

Pretty much this. Also because of these many things as described. People that are looking for real RvR type action, and not just PvE K-Train action have mostly left. WvW in nothing more than a casual bona fide PvE mode, with PvE rewards. Players in this mode no longer even fight, unless they know they can out blob you down. Because WvW is setup and maintained in a mechanical way where fighting players is more detrimental. And fighting NPCs and walls bares better results.

Other RvR modes outside GW2. The mechanics, towers, and objectives exist to encourage players to fight each other. In GW2's WvW mechanics, structures, and objectives exist to discourage players from fighting each other. It's really a night and day difference.

it isnt a good idea, that will destroy the WvW completly

@PassionWhisky.3457 said:it isnt a good idea, that will destroy the WvW completly

This makes no sense, there is NOTHING to destroy, a rigged #1 server, a score that's meaningless, unbalanced, unfair matches ....what exactly are you trying to save ?

Other points made are fair though, and easily enough addressed by starting a new rank system.

-No thanks to ruining wvw by turning into a convoluted eotm style mess. That never produced "full matches all the time" either.

-If guilds want to fight each other, they can do that now, no need wrecking everything.

-WvW is a 24/7 game mode, meaning people can jump right in whenever they want. This is a big selling point for people.

-Just because someone might be in a guild, does not mean all their time in WvW is spent exclusively on a guild raid.

-Who are you to determine what is a "non-wvw guilded player"? Many players are in multiple guilds for a variety of reasons.

-And just how exactly would you determine "wvw based guilds" ranking? Different sizes, different playstyles, different time zones. What exactly do you mean by guild rank? Is that some kind of points system? Are zerg guilds now more important then havok guilds? How exactly do you think "self-balancing" would ever work? Are we supposed to come to some kind of gentleman's agreement whenever we see an enemy group on the map?

-WvW is not for everyone...

@"X T D.6458" said:-No thanks to ruining wvw by turning into a convoluted eotm style mess. That never produced "full matches all the time" either.

There is no basis to prove that, I was in 2 guilds when gw2 started - both were over 400 - both are gone after wvw rules were set in stone because it couldn't be taken serious, I want those guys back. This current system is keeping many competitive players away. it sounds like no one wants competition to be honest.

-If guilds want to fight each other, they can do that now, no need wrecking everything.

No they can't guilds have people on opposing servers due to this mix of pve and pvp in guilds. no basis at all for this point.

-WvW is a 24/7 game mode, meaning people can jump right in whenever they want. This is a big selling point for people.

In their hardwired server, again no basis because you can't jump into an active match, if your server isn't on, it's dead. period.

-Just because someone might be in a guild, does not mean all their time in WvW is spent exclusively on a guild raid.

and they do not have to opt in to competitive wvw within the guild.

-Who are you to determine what is a "non-wvw guilded player"? Many players are in multiple guilds for a variety of reasons.

I posted they have the option to opt in. The user determines if they want to be involved in ranking. No one should be forced to play competitively.

-And just how exactly would you determine "wvw based guilds" ranking? Different sizes, different playstyles, different time zones. What exactly do you mean by guild rank? Is that some kind of points system? Are zerg guilds now more important then havok guilds? How exactly do you think "self-balancing" would ever work? Are we supposed to come to some kind of gentleman's agreement whenever we see an enemy group on the map?

There are all sorts of stats being farmed, and competitive guilds can decide which combination of those stats determines what makes a guild or player number 1.

-WvW is not for everyone...

and that's a problem. E-sporters would agree, wvw is not for them, that is a problem , and I want my 2 guilds of 800 competitive players to come back to a fair / balanced game where rank and skill is a thing. Wvw can in fact be for everyone that enjoys mmorpgs.

Ranks 0= 10 role playersRanks 10 - 500 casual playersranks 500+ competitive players.

What's left to ruin?

A few solos to blob, empty objectives to flip and the majority is content.

How exactly does a mega server instance created map system create competition?

-"because you can't jump into an active match, if your server isn't on"....What exactly is stopping you from going into wvw anytime?