D/D Condi Daredevil that doesn't use Shortbow? PvE

Just talking PvE for now, i really don't fancy the shortbow, in fact i'm using P/P right now. I know there's probably not an optimal build for those two sets together. I'm pretty set on the idea of D/D, but is condi worth building for Daredevil? I don't want to spend a bunch of time on it and then realise it's hugely outclassed by power.

The thing is as condi thief the best weapon by far is shortbow and then D/D since you can spam bleeding and poison but all other weapons don't really inflict any viable amount of conditions if at all.

If you want to use P/P I'd stay on power (I prefer marauder on power thief)But I can't even imagine to play my thief without shortbow ^^ Especially in PvE it adds soo much mobility and I think even as power thief shortbow is your best option because you can still deal a lot of AoE dmg - which is absolutely critical - while also being able to kite stronger mobs and have access to a few more dodges. D/D could do the same thing but I just don't like melee thief since it is faar less forgiving.

Buut. I don't think power thief outclasses condi thief but I think D/D Shortbow is your only option then.

Ok, I've discovered that I REALLY like D/P with the Black Powder/Bound stealth access. If I was to build something around this with P/P as my other set could I make something viable as a power build? Or is P/P just a waste of time in general?

In my opinion shortbow is a must have in the thief's second weapon slot so P/P is more like an alternative to D/P for me, not an extension.The reason for why imo shortbow has to be in almost every thief build is that you don't profit from weapon switching dmg-wise. You only have one initiative bar and you don't have cooldowns so if you P/P Unload all of your initiative you don't have any reason why you'd want to switch to D/P.Also shortbow is more like a utility tool with infiltator's arrow for mobility, choking gas for reducing heals + daze and Disabling Shot for the additional evades while also giving a little bit of multitarget dmg with auto-attack.

@Verdis.8472 said:Or is P/P just a waste of time in general?No it's not a waste of time I sometimes even switch my dagger for a second pistol so I can run P/P + shortbow.Especially against champs/world bosses and recently in fractals too where I don't want to be in melee range and I'm able to kite.You don't have to stick with just 1 setup, use whatever is the most useful for a given situation.

I don't really know any "useful/good" builds in particular which don't utilize shortbow (at least I don't know a build I'd want to use because of the reason above) but I know there are some out there, so maybe you'll find one.

Ok thanks for the tips!

You can run anything you want in open world PvE. P/P actually has its uses there in certain scenario's where Thief is simply too squishy to get in close. It's the highest Range damage Thief has got, so it's really the only option then (think world bosses and other large scale events).Power does scale best with it nowadays and considering you enjoy D/P too, I'd definitely recommend going for Power.That said, there's a Condi D/D build as well as a Power Staff build that make up the meta Raid builds for Thief. Not too familiar with those as I'm not into that aspect of the game, but definitely something to keep in mind.

But yeah. Go power for open world content. The short spike damage is great against the majority of low Health NPC's (better than Condi, usually) and it seems to best fit your playstyle.Maybe first play around with our other weapon combinations too, before really making up your mind though.

Both SB and PP work well as the second weapon set in PvE and the choice depends on the situation. SB gives mobility (SB3, SB5) and AOE damage. PP gives CC (PP2, PP4) and blinds (PP5), might stacking, a strong ranged damaging skill (PP3) and a way to almost heal fully (PP3 x 2 + sigil of Malice), but is a single target weapon set. I run either, depending on what I need but mostly have PP equipped.

Have you tried P/D? I don't think it's exactly optimal, but at least more of the skills focus around condi as opposed to P/P. In PvE your CnDs won't be dodged for the most part as well.

I tried it years ago before pistols were buffed. It didn't fit my play style very well and I wasn't very impressed by it. It is most likely better now. To be fair, PP wasn't impressive back then either. You are right that it is easy to land a CnD in PvE, but I gave up on using stealth (except for skips in dungeons/fractals) a long time ago, so this wasn't a concern for me.

The thing with PP and condi is that the pistol auto attack actually does respectable bleed damage now with Vipers armor and Krait runes. I typically only go to PP if I can't melee or am taking too much spike damage that I need to disengage briefly to heal using a couple of PP3s with the passive effect of signet of Malice. Mix in a couple of auto attacks to keep some bleeds going and then I switch to melee and steal back on target. So for me, it synergizes very well with condi DD.