mirage and utility's

is it just me but why does mirage have 2 utility's that do more or less the same thing ( illusionary ambush ) and ( mirage advance ) it feels like these 2 skills should just be 1 and we should just get a new utility that actually brings something else to the table

The whole elite spec is obviously rushed.

I don't see the similarity. Illusionary Ambush grants mirage cloak. It's instant cast. It teleports you and your clones. It re-focuses clone target. It breaks enemy target. It has 1200 range. Mirage Advance has none of that. It's a 3/4s cast, 900 range teleport + blind that allows you to return to your previous location and spawn a clone. They're two different skills.

mirage advance breaks enemy target on mirage retreat. I don't really see much of a difference if the skill is instance cast or if there is a windup the skills are filling the same role at allowing u to break enemy target and be a gap closer

in terms of utility the skills provide the only difference I see is one skill lets you move all your clones the other lets you shadow step backwards,, they have a couple lil tweaks to make them different like mirage cloak and the attack that blinds but even that is like having 2 versions of the same thing both allow u to avoid a attack and produce damage

I agree. Even if the skills aren't exactly the same, their purpose is very similar without much obvious distinctions between them. Essentially, many of the Mirage's skills are uninspiring.

I mean just like the whole elite it feels that their utility design ideas ended at "Have something called False Oasis or so, because well, "Mirage". Durrrrrr".

That's it. Deception skills don't even have a single unifying theme if you don't take the clone-generation trait.

I guess I'm crazy, but mirage is some of the most fun I've had in GW2.

@caveman.5840 said:mirage advance breaks enemy target on mirage retreat. I don't really see much of a difference if the skill is instance cast or if there is a windup the skills are filling the same role at allowing u to break enemy target and be a gap closer

in terms of utility the skills provide the only difference I see is one skill lets you move all your clones the other lets you shadow step backwards,, they have a couple lil tweaks to make them different like mirage cloak and the attack that blinds but even that is like having 2 versions of the same thing both allow u to avoid a attack and produce damage

One of them is a shadowstep used for you to get in up close and personal with them, with a return ability to get back out again. Its useful for getting in that melee burst and getting out of danger quick. The other one teleports your clones as well, performing up to 4 ambush attacks on the target even if you don't have IH traited . That's the difference, one of them is for you to personally deal a burst and then have an escape tool. The other one is to perform mass ambush attacks even when you forego IH to take a different trait. 2 different roles for the skills.

They do feel very similar though, but they aren't the same skill by any means. Its like saying blink and phase retreat are almost the same skill, because both of them teleport you a distance.

@OriOri.8724 said:They do feel very similar though, but they aren't the same skill by any means. Its like saying blink and phase retreat are almost the same skill, because both of them teleport you a distance.

come on now I am not comparing weapon skills to utility options here but 2 of the 4 new utility options might as well be different sides to the same coin , and because we are already pretty slippery I don't see a huge advantage to the return shadow step mirage advance provides, would rather have a new utility option that brought something else to the table

You're equating 2 skills because they share a single mechanic. That's no different than equating blink and phase retreat because they share a teleport mehcanic

@OriOri.8724 said:You're equating 2 skills because they share a single mechanic. That's no different than equating blink and phase retreat because they share a teleport mehcanic

I disagree utility skills should be more distinct and I am not just comparing just the teleport ,,,

I can agree that given the limited number of utility slots it's highly unlikely that anyone will have the space to slot both of these at the same time, when you're likely going to want to have things like blink, condi cleanse, etc... Due to that I do agree they should be merged into a single skill making space for a new unique Deception utility to be created.

i feel same as op .the whole deception utility set feels dull , some are supposed to be more powerful/interesting than plain teleport with mirror or mirage cloak but we don't have any traits that interact with them .and mirror is still poorly design , not fun and unpractical .

@Curunen.8729 said:I can agree that given the limited number of utility slots it's highly unlikely that anyone will have the space to slot both of these at the same time, when you're likely going to want to have things like blink, condi cleanse, etc... Due to that I do agree they should be merged into a single skill making space for a new unique Deception utility to be created.

Just as Curunen said; when we were testing out the new elites during the weekend(s) I mentioned in the old forms that Mirage Advance and Illusionary Ambush were practically the same and should've been merged, but obviously that didn't happen much less anything we had feedback on wasn't listened to.

But anyways; they should combine the two calling it: Mirage Advance Instant cast, keep the 1200 range, keep the damage, blind and have it so that when you activate Mirage retreat you get Mirage Cloak. I'd get rid of the breaks enemy targeting though and increase the cooldown.

Illusionary Ambush affects all illusions, and its intent is to surround the target with you and your illusions.

Mirage Advance / Retreat is basically Shadowstep but worse, since it's a lot clunkier. That one needs to be changed to something else.

@Abelisk.4527 said:Illusionary Ambush affects all illusions, and its intent is to surround the target with you and your illusions.

Mirage Advance / Retreat is basically Shadowstep but worse, since it's a lot clunkier. That one needs to be changed to something else.

one with rngone with blind + okish dmg if you run power build .both are not ideal m but IA is far better than MA .for mirage advance /retreat , i can see anet gave it cast time is to prevent balance issue they learned from thief sword 2 . but they shouldn't compare an utility skill with a 'weapon skill that doesn't have cd .

maybe they could change mirage advance to something like firebrand mantra , first two charges are target locked teleport with reduced range which does a bit dmg to your target ,third charge will teleport you back to the location before you cast MA and blind the target .all are instantly cast , but with 1.5s cd between each charge usage .

Remove Cast time and make it usable without target. Backport restores Endurance.

Well, Mirage Advance does have one big advantage over Illusionary Ambush: It isn't defeated by elevation... IA still goes haywire and misfires if the target is on a different z-axis, but MA does not have this problem.

I love that Advance and Ambush are two different skills. More shadowsteps is simply more fun. And they both have a use. But i'm definitely not against the addition of new skills, as long as it doesn't take away from current skills.

Illusionary ambush is what you get if you take steal and put a mirage flair on it.

Mirage advance is what you get if you take shadowstep and put it through a focus group to figure out how you can make it clunkier and less useful.

Illusionary ambush is actually somewhat useful and make good use of mirage mechanics.

Illusion advance is just a poorly implemented version of thief sword 2. Can't see how it is good in any circumstance.

Mirage utilities are a bit meh imo, some are efficient for dps but that is the only reason to take them (just an extra ambush on 20sec cd with confusion or tele added on).

@Exciton.8942 said:Illusionary ambush is actually somewhat useful and make good use of mirage mechanics.

Illusion advance is just a poorly implemented version of thief sword 2. Can't see how it is good in any circumstance.

It would be useful in the same kind of situations as thief sword two ... if you want to complain about a skill being useless, how about Sand Through Glass, an instant cast stunbreak and evade that WILL NOT interrupt any skills to cast, which basically makes it useless as a stunbreak and evade.

Sands Through Glass is a skill I've never been able to figure out where it fits. If you want to move out of danger, Jaunt moves you further and gives you better control over where you go (since backwards isn't always the best choice). If you want a mirror, the other mirror generating skills at least put one close to you. It's also not any faster than the others, nor is it always convenient to dodge out of combat for a mirror (if they were worth it). And Elusive Mind replaces any need for it as a stun break, plus Decoy and Blink really aren't much slower (and Blink can actually be a second faster with Master of Manipulation). Basically, everything it does can be done better by something else we have.

But then, I think that's sort of the thing about all our utilities that makes them feel uninspiring. There's a lot of overlap in their functionality to the point where it's hard to see where you'd take any combination of Mirage Advance, Illusionary Ambush, and Sands Through Glass at the same time - not when there are so many other utilities skills that fill more important holes. And then that gets back to the argument of mirage not feeling distinct enough from base mesmer.

@Abelisk.4527 said:Illusionary Ambush affects all illusions, and its intent is to surround the target with you and your illusions.

Mirage Advance / Retreat is basically Shadowstep but worse, since it's a lot clunkier. That one needs to be changed to something else.

Personally I prefer to compare advance to the thief sword tele. It can actually quite useful to pull off los bursts similar to what condi thief used to do. Plus it gives you a clutch disengage afterwards