OP Builds

I really don't believe in them, I believe there is a counter to every build, and no one build is a do it all build.I've been having fun experimenting with different builds, and I find each one works well in different scenarios, and fails badly in other scenarios.

I find that my desired wvw build would fair badly with how I like to pve - I kill many things fast and solo champs in pve, I often enjoy just going on a rampage in a map. but that doesn't fly in wvw, then when i try to raid, my set up has too much toughness and causes agro, then in fractals, my wvw infusions are meaningless when I need agony resistance.So i'm kind of hardwired in a way to one play mode. unless i give up pve and rebuild for wvw ...but then there's stuff in wvw that needs me to pve and there's stuff in pve that needs me to wvw.

So it is my belief, that there is a counter for every build because my reaper stops scourges cold - literally. But it's useless against a good spellbreaker warrior that is resilient to conditions and is constantly zipping around all over the place with whirlwind and by the time i land one condition on him, i'm just about dead. My point is, it seems that in general we as players are either rock, paper or scissors - and it's not easy to experiment with different builds...it's a quest and a mission to change your stats and have a selection of builds to make counters.

That being said, it seems that these Power creep op builds are really more psychological than mathematical because the "rules" prevent us from easily making a counter build.

@Ricky.4706 said:I really don't believe in them, I believe there is a counter to every build, and no one build is a do it all build.I've been having fun experimenting with different builds, and I find each one works well in different scenarios, and fails badly in other scenarios.

I find that my desired wvw build would fair badly with how I like to pve - I kill many things fast and solo champs in pve, I often enjoy just going on a rampage in a map. but that doesn't fly in wvw, then when i try to raid, my set up has too much toughness and causes agro, then in fractals, my wvw infusions are meaningless when I need agony resistance.So i'm kind of hardwired in a way to one play mode. unless i give up pve and rebuild for wvw ...but then there's stuff in wvw that needs me to pve and there's stuff in pve that needs me to wvw.

So it is my belief, that there is a counter for every build because my reaper stops scourges cold - literally. But it's useless against a good spellbreaker warrior that is resilient to conditions and is constantly zipping around all over the place with whirlwind and by the time i land one condition on him, i'm just about dead. My point is, it seems that in general we as players are either rock, paper or scissors - and it's not easy to experiment with different builds...it's a quest and a mission to change your stats and have a selection of builds to make counters.

That being said, it seems that these Power creep op builds are really more psychological than mathematical because the "rules" prevent us from easily making a counter build.

i think anet wants us to carry lots of different gear to swap on the go based on who we encounter.

again, i have to give them the benefit of the doubt, and share an honest fun loving players view. I don't want to be upset at the rules, because in all honesty the game itself is a perfect chessboard. I'm hoping i can show them this with sincere insights.

I can see clearly how gw is perfect for esports - and the rules are preventing that, not the game itself.

There will always be optimal builds. Unfortunately for this game the gap between what is meta and not meta is far too large. Take say a condi chrono and power scrapper, the power scrapper is fun to play, sure. It is in no way close to the face roll a condi chrono is for dealing with most scenarios you will run into in WvW whilst solo.

@Chorazin.4107 said:There will always be optimal builds. Unfortunately for this game the gap between what is meta and not meta is far too large. Take say a condi chrono and power scrapper, the power scrapper is fun to play, sure. It is in no way close to the face roll a condi chrono is for dealing with most scenarios you will run into in WvW whilst solo.

Condi Mesmer?

a good spellbreaker counters many of those builds - it's hard fighting them because you can't easily condi them or corrupt their stances. - but not an easy role to play....the guys i've fought timed their whirlwinds to keep a good distance from me, giving ther stances time to recharge while i was trying to catch up to them and heal. was a fun fight, much respect to those who run those builds. My counter build for them is my deadeye lol - nothing like a good old skirmish shot right to the knee to make spellbreaker tears! -dammit where'd he go now!!'? -comes out of invis- "Pew Pew" - 6k right to the forehead -invis- but then comes along another thief that backstabs you outta nowhere, that gets caught by my friend the soulbeast ...who then gets taken out by the spellbreaker - the circle of life

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Ricky.4706 said:I really don't believe in them, I believe there is a counter to every build, and no one build is a do it all build.I've been having fun experimenting with different builds, and I find each one works well in different scenarios, and fails badly in other scenarios.

I find that my desired wvw build would fair badly with how I like to pve - I kill many things fast and solo champs in pve, I often enjoy just going on a rampage in a map. but that doesn't fly in wvw, then when i try to raid, my set up has too much toughness and causes agro, then in fractals, my wvw infusions are meaningless when I need agony resistance.So i'm kind of hardwired in a way to one play mode. unless i give up pve and rebuild for wvw ...but then there's stuff in wvw that needs me to pve and there's stuff in pve that needs me to wvw.

So it is my belief, that there is a counter for every build because my reaper stops scourges cold - literally. But it's useless against a good spellbreaker warrior that is resilient to conditions and is constantly zipping around all over the place with whirlwind and by the time i land one condition on him, i'm just about dead. My point is, it seems that in general we as players are either rock, paper or scissors - and it's not easy to experiment with different builds...it's a quest and a mission to change your stats and have a selection of builds to make counters.

That being said, it seems that these Power creep op builds are really more psychological than mathematical because the "rules" prevent us from easily making a counter build.

I think anet wants people to buy Hot, so they have access to the best gear

@Cerby.1069 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Ricky.4706 said:I really don't believe in them, I believe there is a counter to every build, and no one build is a do it all build.I've been having fun experimenting with different builds, and I find each one works well in different scenarios, and fails badly in other scenarios.

I find that my desired wvw build would fair badly with how I like to pve - I kill many things fast and solo champs in pve, I often enjoy just going on a rampage in a map. but that doesn't fly in wvw, then when i try to raid, my set up has too much toughness and causes agro, then in fractals, my wvw infusions are meaningless when I need agony resistance.So i'm kind of hardwired in a way to one play mode. unless i give up pve and rebuild for wvw ...but then there's stuff in wvw that needs me to pve and there's stuff in pve that needs me to wvw.

So it is my belief, that there is a counter for every build because my reaper stops scourges cold - literally. But it's useless against a good spellbreaker warrior that is resilient to conditions and is constantly zipping around all over the place with whirlwind and by the time i land one condition on him, i'm just about dead. My point is, it seems that in general we as players are either rock, paper or scissors - and it's not easy to experiment with different builds...it's a quest and a mission to change your stats and have a selection of builds to make counters.

That being said, it seems that these Power creep op builds are really more psychological than mathematical because the "rules" prevent us from easily making a counter build.

=) well we have to look forward to something. so they add new stuff.

I think people tend to call scourge OP because of its DPS. It is doing a lot of damage, yes, but it's counting on other classes for condi clear and healing.

I Agree, in the past weeks i found out new ways to kill scourges in WvW, and the more I play the more I learn how to beat them. It is all about L2P (learn to play).Now, lets be honest and agree that scourges in groups are too OP and they need to be nerfed in groups. One way to nerf them is to reduce the number of targets they are capable of tagging from 5 to 2 or from 5 to 3.

Rock, paper, scissors: each one is strong against one and weak against one.

Gw2 wvw/spvp: let's say there are 100 different builds. 5 meta builds each one is strong against 90 builds and weak against 10 builds.

Well sometimes things are actually OP although I agree, most times that is not the case.Scourge for example, one Scourge is annoying, two Scourges -> more annyoing and so on but at some point the Condi Pressure becomes so incredibly overwhelming that the condis are reapplied a lot faster than any condi clear could ever deal with them and no one can sustain it anymore in which case Scourge actuall becomes incredibly strong. Although you could argue that maybe our ways of dealing with Condi Pressure are just Underpowered at the moment. In my opinion Scourge is just annoying, it's the amount of Condis that we have to deal with that is a problem because we don't have ways to deal with them efficiently maybe because we (as in "the community") haven't adapted to them yet or maybe because we just simply don't have sufficient tools to do so. I think it's more of a adaption issue, if enough "meta builds" shift to slightly more condi clear, then Scourge will become less effective.

BUT there is one thing that is actually OP right now. And that is Spellbreaker with Winds of Disenchantment + Enchantment Collapse. (Enchantment Collapse beeing the culprit)Why is it OP? Because there is almost no counterplay, yes you can cc the SB during the long Casttime of WoD or kill him but that gets almost impossible when theres more than one SB and if just one of them get's his WoD through and even if it only hits 3 Players for 1s Enchantment Collapse will remove 6 Boons across 5 Players and nothing can be done against Enchantment Collapse. (6 Boons sounds like that's not a lot but across 5 Players that is a total of 30 Boons gone in 1s!)I don't think it is OP in the sense that it is entirely game breaking or so strong that it single handedly wins a fight but it is strong enough to make "running in, casting ONE spell and then die" a legitimate play in a group fight that actually make a huge difference with the only downside beeing: You loose one player and the upside beeing: The Enemy Team looses many/all Boons and all ranged classes have to eventually reposition themselves (making the backline vulnerable).I love Spellbreaker and I love playing Spellbreaker but Enchantment Collapse is definitly too strong, if it had an internal Cooldown it would still be a good trait but not OP anymore.

@Ricky.4706 said:no one build is a do it all build.

That notion has nothing to do with a build being OP. Being extremely OP compared to other builds and other professions builds as specific combinations of task are what make certain builds OP.

that's a good point, if it was spvp - group pvp makes it different, some groups would quickly complain about my condi - it gives my group the advantage of taking down blobs when we are outnumbered - but not effective in 1 v 1

Some builds are only as strong as those that know how to play them. You can't say a player who plays his class well is op, the same build 1 person can complain about - others don't know how to use. That's what separates a metabot from a skilled player.

the 1 shot mesmer, is easily killed in 1 shot, providing you can actually get aim on it and time it's defenses.

The scourge is deadly opponent to many characters, but looks like a helpless child to my reaper. 1st when i'm in shroud it's doing no damage to me, then when I hit it with a long chill skill...it's pretty much as good as dead.

weavers are like rag dolls to rangers.

you really have to play these fabled "Op builds" to understand their weakness, their defenses aren't forever, and many of their strongest offenses are conditional, if you understand those mechanics, then you know when to back off and when to step in.

lol @ no op builds.

Power Herald. It's has constant.....Haha nope I couldn't even finish that