I Want Alternatives to Raiding — Guild Wars 2 Forums

I Want Alternatives to Raiding

Ordin.9047Ordin.9047 Member ✭✭
edited November 21, 2017 in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Moving title contents here: Please give the 80% of us who don't raid more to do than

An hour worth of living story and a bunch of grind.

<13

Comments

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If you are talking about Episode 1 of Season 4 then I also hope it's a complete package and not only focused on the Raid and the Fractal

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ordin.9047 said:
    Moving title contents here: Please give the 80% of us who don't raid more to do than

    An hour worth of living story and a bunch of grind.

    First of all, I think a lot more than 80% of the game don't raid, or at least hardly every raid. That said, it's a valid content release for people who like harder content who bought the game and want that content. Apparently it's not a large team working on it, and it fills a niche, which is part of a developer's job. If the niche is too small, raids will eventually stop being made.

    But I don't think taking the five people off the raid team is suddenly going to make you thousands of dollars.

    For my money, though, I'd have preferred new dungeons to raids.

  • @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Ordin.9047 said:
    Moving title contents here: Please give the 80% of us who don't raid more to do than

    An hour worth of living story and a bunch of grind.

    First of all, I think a lot more than 80% of the game don't raid, or at least hardly every raid. That said, it's a valid content release for people who like harder content who bought the game and want that content. Apparently it's not a large team working on it, and it fills a niche, which is part of a developer's job. If the niche is too small, raids will eventually stop being made.

    But I don't think taking the five people off the raid team is suddenly going to make you thousands of dollars.

    For my money, though, I'd have preferred new dungeons to raids.

    agree with all if this, raiders deserve content too as long as the investment is not unpoportional (and it seems reasonable at the moment). The only other potential problem is classes getting screwed over in the rest of the game by niave developers trying to balance around the rotation based play that you get in raids.

    "Any path that narrows future possibilities may become a lethal trap. Humans do not thread their way through a maze; they scan a vast horizon filled with unique opportunities." - The Spacing Guild Handbook.

    Beware the meta!

  • @Ordin.9047 said:
    Moving title contents here: Please give the 80% of us who don't raid more to do than

    An hour worth of living story and a bunch of grind.

    I'm not sure what you're looking for. The release will include a fractal for repeatable and rewarding content, achievements, a new map. Not good enough?

  • Myhr.9108Myhr.9108 Member ✭✭✭

    If you play enough to burn through content at such a high speed that you feel you have nothing left to do, maybe it's time to indeed invest yourself into raiding. Content release rate is fine. Take a break if you feel like it, and come back in a month or two. The good thing about GW2 is that you don't loose relevancy as expacs and patches get released.

  • TexZero.7910TexZero.7910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Myhr.9108 said:
    If you play enough to burn through content at such a high speed that you feel you have nothing left to do, maybe it's time to indeed invest yourself into raiding. Content release rate is fine. Take a break if you feel like it, and come back in a month or two. The good thing about GW2 is that you don't loose relevancy as expacs and patches get released.

    Yes and no.

    The story as far as length goes for chapter based releases is incredibly short. Most of this is due to the resources spent in conjunction with building a new zone for each release because the chapter has to be contained to that area. If Anet's team wanted to have a longer story it would come at the cost of this specifically and have us in zones we're used to with minor or temporary story instances like LS 1/2.

    That said raids are in a good spot and people should do them.

  • Each LS3 has a massive, immersive JP for the most part. Each one has a new zone, new mechanics, fun mastery points or skills. New gear, skins, and story. Achievements that usually take a decent to a long period of time.
    I'm impressed that the raids have as much content, story, and side things to do.
    I'd prefer more balance time on classes.

  • Myhr.9108Myhr.9108 Member ✭✭✭

    @TexZero.7910 said:

    The story as far as length goes for chapter based releases is incredibly short. Most of this is due to the resources spent in conjunction with building a new zone for each release because the chapter has to be contained to that area. If Anet's team wanted to have a longer story it would come at the cost of this specifically and have us in zones we're used to with minor or temporary story instances like LS 1/2.

    That said raids are in a good spot and people should do them.

    Well, tying the story to the new zone is Arena-net's choice, but it can be discussed. After all, in previous Living story releases, they did made story instances that happened in older areas, like Precocious Aurene and things like that. In fact, I think part of why people find the story releases to be short is because they want more dialogue and character interactions, when Arena-net always tries to craft new instances. I guess they have much more developing power than writing power in their team, and well, they do know how to make fantastic-looking zones and instances, imho.

    As for raiding, yeaaaaaah, to each their own...It's ok to have them, but "been there, done that" in others MMOs. It's a mindset, an investment, an experience. I honestly think the hardest part in raiding will always be finding 9 other people willing to block one or two evenings each week for 2-3 hours non-stop, and this for a period of several months, aka, it's an irl-organisation challenge, and most people can't or don't want to invest themselves that much, it's just how it is.

  • MarkoNS.3261MarkoNS.3261 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 21, 2017

    raids are supposed to be hard content, if you cant do them tough. but if you invest some effort you will fast see that raids are really easy and a joke honestly. Also giving raid rewards for players who cant clear raids ha ha ha ha ha ha.

  • There is honestly so much to do in GW2 I get a wee bit despondent at times cause I don't know where to start, Dungeons, Fractals, Raids, Story, Map Complete, Living Story, Farming & crafting, creating new alts, try looking in your achievements panel I found a lot of things to do in there that I had not noticed early on. Dig deeper you will find there is tonnes of stuff to do, what i actually wish for is for a legendary armour to be available that is earned through real PVE not WVW, PVP or Raids.

  • starlinvf.1358starlinvf.1358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MarkoNS.3261 said:
    raids are supposed to be hard content, if you cant do them tough. but if you invest some effort you will fast see that raids are really easy and a joke honestly. Also giving raid rewards for players who cant clear raids ha ha ha ha ha ha.

    Sometimes I wonder if the hypocrisy is just a fabricated in-joke, or if people actually can't see it when they post.

  • Opopanax.1803Opopanax.1803 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ordin.9047 said:
    Moving title contents here: Please give the 80% of us who don't raid more to do than

    An hour worth of living story and a bunch of grind.

    I've got to say, I really wish they would keep raids just like they are as far as difficulty and coordination, and mechanics, but make them 5 man. 10 is too much scheduling on the back end.

  • @Opopanax.1803 said:

    @Ordin.9047 said:
    Moving title contents here: Please give the 80% of us who don't raid more to do than

    An hour worth of living story and a bunch of grind.

    I've got to say, I really wish they would keep raids just like they are as far as difficulty and coordination, and mechanics, but make them 5 man. 10 is too much scheduling on the back end.

    Precisely why I don't raid anymore.

  • Most of the groups I've run with pug or bring new players in as needed.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kyban.4031 said:

    @Ordin.9047 said:
    Moving title contents here: Please give the 80% of us who don't raid more to do than

    An hour worth of living story and a bunch of grind.

    I'm not sure what you're looking for. The release will include a fractal for repeatable and rewarding content, achievements, a new map. Not good enough?

    If it's another raid-like fractal like the previous ones, then no, not good enough, as it's aimed at the same general group of people as raids. There needs to be some instanced content in between those two extremes.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • sigur.9453sigur.9453 Member ✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Kyban.4031 said:

    @Ordin.9047 said:
    Moving title contents here: Please give the 80% of us who don't raid more to do than

    An hour worth of living story and a bunch of grind.

    I'm not sure what you're looking for. The release will include a fractal for repeatable and rewarding content, achievements, a new map. Not good enough?

    If it's another raid-like fractal like the previous ones, then no, not good enough, as it's aimed at the same general group of people as raids. There needs to be some instanced content in between those two extremes.

    So you just want to stack mobs with no mechanics and call it a day?

  • Kronos.3695Kronos.3695 Member ✭✭✭

    What do you mean? We'll probably get:

    • A new map
    • A new living story chapter
    • New achievements
    • New collections
    • A new legendary weapon
    • A new fractal
    • A new raid wing
      You'll have plenty to do even if you're not raiding, you can't pretend to not have an area of a content for other players if you don't like it.
      Get over it.

    Kronos Ledaloth
    Leader and founder of Bloodstone Keepers [BloS] - Visit us at our website or facebook page!

  • Nemmar.8491Nemmar.8491 Member ✭✭✭

    I do think an easy mode for raids could work. The barrier of entry for raids is quite steep ATM. It can take months to get a full ascended set with infusions, so many don't even persue it.

  • Danikat.8537Danikat.8537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Myhr.9108 said:

    @TexZero.7910 said:

    The story as far as length goes for chapter based releases is incredibly short. Most of this is due to the resources spent in conjunction with building a new zone for each release because the chapter has to be contained to that area. If Anet's team wanted to have a longer story it would come at the cost of this specifically and have us in zones we're used to with minor or temporary story instances like LS 1/2.

    That said raids are in a good spot and people should do them.

    Well, tying the story to the new zone is Arena-net's choice, but it can be discussed. After all, in previous Living story releases, they did made story instances that happened in older areas, like Precocious Aurene and things like that. In fact, I think part of why people find the story releases to be short is because they want more dialogue and character interactions, when Arena-net always tries to craft new instances. I guess they have much more developing power than writing power in their team, and well, they do know how to make fantastic-looking zones and instances, imho.

    As for raiding, yeaaaaaah, to each their own...It's ok to have them, but "been there, done that" in others MMOs. It's a mindset, an investment, an experience. I honestly think the hardest part in raiding will always be finding 9 other people willing to block one or two evenings each week for 2-3 hours non-stop, and this for a period of several months, aka, it's an irl-organisation challenge, and most people can't or don't want to invest themselves that much, it's just how it is.

    Actually I've seen a lot of people ask for less dialogue (or ways to skip it) and complain any time a story step requires you to go around speaking to different people, I can't remember ever seeing anyone ask for more. Whereas I did see a lot of people ask for more new maps before we started getting 1 per release, and since then people have asked for bigger maps and more to do in them.

    Personally I want both. I'd love to be able to have extended conversations with various NPCs about what's going on. Optional of course, something like Dragon Age where you can go back to your camp periodically to discuss what you're doing with your party. But I also want to eventually be able to travel across all of Tyria - both what's currently on the world map and the areas beyond it. It's silly really, I already feel like there's more to do in this game than I have time for, and more coming all the time, but then I want even more of it.

    Danielle Aurorel - Desolation EU. Mini Collector.

    "Not dead which eternal lie, stranger eons death may die. Drain you of your sanity, face the thing that should not be"

  • Rennie.6750Rennie.6750 Member ✭✭✭

    So more fractals? I'd be fine with that. It's true that only 1 for the expansion is really not much. Maybe some of that super fat voice acting budget could be used on actual content instead.

  • Shard.4791Shard.4791 Member ✭✭✭

    Raiders deserve more content too than 1 hour every 9 months. LW is on 3 month cycle, no?

  • Zaron.1987Zaron.1987 Member ✭✭✭

    I doubt that 20 % are raiding.

    I guess its far far less!

  • GreyWolf.8670GreyWolf.8670 Member ✭✭✭

    @sigur.9453 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Kyban.4031 said:

    @Ordin.9047 said:
    Moving title contents here: Please give the 80% of us who don't raid more to do than

    An hour worth of living story and a bunch of grind.

    I'm not sure what you're looking for. The release will include a fractal for repeatable and rewarding content, achievements, a new map. Not good enough?

    If it's another raid-like fractal like the previous ones, then no, not good enough, as it's aimed at the same general group of people as raids. There needs to be some instanced content in between those two extremes.

    So you just want to stack mobs with no mechanics and call it a day?

    Uh, yeah... sure.

  • Ha. Never enjoyed raids in other games so leaving GW2 raids until I've exhausted all other content. By definition all I do in GW2 is an alternative to raiding so from my perspective the balance is about right.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Danikat.8537 said:

    Actually I've seen a lot of people ask for less dialogue (or ways to skip it) and complain any time a story step requires you to go around speaking to different people, I can't remember ever seeing anyone ask for more.

    I think that this sentiment stems from people doing story instances with alts. Once you've been through the story, do you really need the time-sink of dialogue for your other characters?

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Joxer.6024Joxer.6024 Member ✭✭✭

    @Nemmar.8491 said:
    I do think an easy mode for raids could work. The barrier of entry for raids is quite steep ATM. It can take months to get a full ascended set with infusions, so many don't even persue it.

    Umm, no. You don't NEED full ascended to raid, exos are fine with armor. If you can get asc weaps and asc then yea, makes a big difference. But the entry is extremely easy if you can dodge the crappy PUGS. ;)

  • @Myhr.9108 said:

    As for raiding, yeaaaaaah, to each their own...It's ok to have them, but "been there, done that" in others MMOs. It's a mindset, an investment, an experience. I honestly think the hardest part in raiding will always be finding 9 other people willing to block one or two evenings each week for 2-3 hours non-stop, and this for a period of several months, aka, it's an irl-organisation challenge, and most people can't or don't want to invest themselves that much, it's just how it is.

    I agree. Been there and done that in vanilla WOW. We had to block at least 3 evenings every week, and spend 5-6 hours per evening, so it's more time commitment. However, later it became impossible for me to make such a time commitment. For the same reason, I have been staying away from raids in GW2. I believe that 90% of the raiders will eventually have to give up raiding, due to a challenging job, parenting, and all other sorts of commitments needed in real life.

  • mazut.4296mazut.4296 Member ✭✭✭

    I think you already have the alternative to raiding. It's called "No raiding"...

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MyriadStars.5679 said:

    @Myhr.9108 said:

    As for raiding, yeaaaaaah, to each their own...It's ok to have them, but "been there, done that" in others MMOs. It's a mindset, an investment, an experience. I honestly think the hardest part in raiding will always be finding 9 other people willing to block one or two evenings each week for 2-3 hours non-stop, and this for a period of several months, aka, it's an irl-organisation challenge, and most people can't or don't want to invest themselves that much, it's just how it is.

    I agree. Been there and done that in vanilla WOW. We had to block at least 3 evenings every week, and spend 5-6 hours per evening, so it's more time commitment. However, later it became impossible for me to make such a time commitment. For the same reason, I have been staying away from raids in GW2. I believe that 90% of the raiders will eventually have to give up raiding, due to a challenging job, parenting, and all other sorts of commitments needed in real life.

    Ouch, if raids required 5-6 hours per evening and 3 evenings I guess I wouldn't be raiding.

  • Jojo.6140Jojo.6140 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 22, 2017

    @Ordin.9047 said:
    Moving title contents here: Please give the 80% of us who don't raid more to do than

    An hour worth of living story and a bunch of grind.

    tbh, a raid-wing is also only an hour worth of actual different and new content. The rest is repeating the same thing over and over again until you are successful and then repeating it for the rewards. The open world and story part of the next LS will also be repeatable i assume...

  • TexZero.7910TexZero.7910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MyriadStars.5679 said:
    I agree. Been there and done that in vanilla WOW. We had to block at least 3 evenings every week, and spend 5-6 hours per evening, so it's more time commitment. However, later it became impossible for me to make such a time commitment. For the same reason, I have been staying away from raids in GW2. I believe that 90% of the raiders will eventually have to give up raiding, due to a challenging job, parenting, and all other sorts of commitments needed in real life.

    I mean going solely on personal experience here. The most i've ever had for a "schedule" was 1 day and ~2ish hours. That was generally good enough for our goals unless we decided to do CM versions.

    So i'd say the time investment is far less than you anticipate. Granted my experience was not the normal, i had a guild and people who genuinely wanted to do the content, not half-hearted pugs.

  • MyriadStars.5679MyriadStars.5679 Member ✭✭
    edited November 22, 2017

    @TexZero.7910 said:

    @MyriadStars.5679 said:
    I agree. Been there and done that in vanilla WOW. We had to block at least 3 evenings every week, and spend 5-6 hours per evening, so it's more time commitment. However, later it became impossible for me to make such a time commitment. For the same reason, I have been staying away from raids in GW2. I believe that 90% of the raiders will eventually have to give up raiding, due to a challenging job, parenting, and all other sorts of commitments needed in real life.

    I mean going solely on personal experience here. The most i've ever had for a "schedule" was 1 day and ~2ish hours. That was generally good enough for our goals unless we decided to do CM versions.

    So i'd say the time investment is far less than you anticipate. Granted my experience was not the normal, i had a guild and people who genuinely wanted to do the content, not half-hearted pugs.

    I guess it's less time in GW2 because they haven't released raid wings for long so that everything is on farm status and the raid party size is 10 instead of 40. Otherwise, to keep an active raiding guild that keeps learning new raid encounters, far more time would be needed for each regular member and bench person. I'd guess that when raids were first released in GW2, each raid guilds spent far more time every week learning the encounters; people who joined these guilds when they already have the raids on farm status would spend a lot less time (and they might not necessarily have enough time if Anet does release new raids in the future). Still, to always have the required time for a raid guild starting at the same time on the same evening of every week will likely to be unrealistic for most people when other stuff in their real life requires more time.

  • GreyWolf.8670GreyWolf.8670 Member ✭✭✭

    @mazut.4296 said:
    I think you already have the alternative to raiding. It's called "No raiding"...

    Cool... so they should sell the raids separately so those that don't want them don't have to pay for them.

  • @GreyWolf.8670 said:

    @mazut.4296 said:
    I think you already have the alternative to raiding. It's called "No raiding"...

    Cool... so they should sell the raids separately so those that don't want them don't have to pay for them.

    No one is paying for raids.

  • Only reason I don't raid is because of the raiding community, not the content itself, which I find to be quite easy actually.

    They should lower raid difficulty not because I want raids to be easier but because I want the raid community to be less elitist.

  • GreyWolf.8670GreyWolf.8670 Member ✭✭✭

    @DarcShriek.5829 said:

    @GreyWolf.8670 said:

    @mazut.4296 said:
    I think you already have the alternative to raiding. It's called "No raiding"...

    Cool... so they should sell the raids separately so those that don't want them don't have to pay for them.

    No one is paying for raids.

    Yes, we are. They aren't developed by a team of volunteers.

  • TexZero.7910TexZero.7910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MyriadStars.5679 said:

    @TexZero.7910 said:

    @MyriadStars.5679 said:
    I agree. Been there and done that in vanilla WOW. We had to block at least 3 evenings every week, and spend 5-6 hours per evening, so it's more time commitment. However, later it became impossible for me to make such a time commitment. For the same reason, I have been staying away from raids in GW2. I believe that 90% of the raiders will eventually have to give up raiding, due to a challenging job, parenting, and all other sorts of commitments needed in real life.

    I mean going solely on personal experience here. The most i've ever had for a "schedule" was 1 day and ~2ish hours. That was generally good enough for our goals unless we decided to do CM versions.

    So i'd say the time investment is far less than you anticipate. Granted my experience was not the normal, i had a guild and people who genuinely wanted to do the content, not half-hearted pugs.

    I guess it's less time in GW2 because they haven't released raid wings for long so that everything is on farm status and the raid party size is 10 instead of 40. Otherwise, to keep an active raiding guild that keeps learning new raid encounters, far more time would be needed for each regular member and bench person. I'd guess that when raids were first released in GW2, each raid guilds spent far more time every week learning the encounters; people who joined these guilds when they already have the raids on farm status would spend a lot less time (and they might not necessarily have enough time if Anet does release new raids in the future). Still, to always have the required time for a raid guild starting at the same time on the same evening of every week will likely to be unrealistic for most people when other stuff in their real life requires more time.

    No even at launch we did 1 day ~2hrs.
    The only difference between then and now is back then we were learning, now we're efficient.

  • Esquilax.3491Esquilax.3491 Member ✭✭✭

    I would really love it if there was a fractal like difficulty scaling system for raids. The entry barrier for pug groups is currently borderline impossible unless you are comfortable with lying and/or being abused and kicked for being new.

    Now I know the standard response is "join a Guild". From my experience in different Mmos over the years, joining a guild with an active raid team can present a lot of challenging problems.

    Scheduled raid times. May be impractical to players needs due to work/family times or even things entirely out of the players control such as different country/time zone. Pretty self explanatoryexplanatory but common problem.

    Raid team may be full. It is hard to get in as newer inexperienced member when the guild already has a roster of experienced players. The new player may end up on the second "charity" raid team which a guild member may attempt to put together for the newer raiders. This new team may have problems filling and cancel raids, causing lost interest. I have seen this happen countless times.

    Anxiety. many players feel uncomfortable joining voice communication platforms which are required for coordination. I find this problem to be most pertinent when there is already an established core of friends who are comfortable with eachother bantering. It is hard to integrate into already established social hierarchies, I liken it to being the new kid at a school.

    Cronyism. This is one is a fringe issue and might sound a little ridiculous but I've personally seen it in practice. It's pretty simple, people can be kitten. For example I have personally had the experience of being a guild officer in another game and privately laughing at and excluding certain members with my fellow officers or "in group", just because they might have been a little slower than a normal player or whatever. My stomach now turns thinking about how I behaved like that, but I suspect it's probably a pretty common thing.

    The ability to pug on lower difficulties eliminates a lot of those problems and gives a huge percentage of the player base (like the aforementioned 80%) new content to play. Give drastically reduced rewards, the players won't care. They will just be happy to be able to participate.

  • @Kyban.4031 said:

    @Ordin.9047 said:
    Moving title contents here: Please give the 80% of us who don't raid more to do than

    An hour worth of living story and a bunch of grind.

    I'm not sure what you're looking for. The release will include a fractal for repeatable and rewarding content, achievements, a new map. Not good enough?

    Can you provide a source for that?

  • DarcShriek.5829DarcShriek.5829 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 22, 2017

    @GreyWolf.8670 said:

    @DarcShriek.5829 said:

    @GreyWolf.8670 said:

    @mazut.4296 said:
    I think you already have the alternative to raiding. It's called "No raiding"...

    Cool... so they should sell the raids separately so those that don't want them don't have to pay for them.

    No one is paying for raids.

    Yes, we are. They aren't developed by a team of volunteers.

    You were not charged for the raids. You were charged for the base game and/or any expansions you bought. No where in the latest expansion's description do I see raids.

  • TheQuickFox.3826TheQuickFox.3826 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 22, 2017

    I would only like raids without the build police aspect of it and if it was a bit more forgiving to player strategy mistakes. (Lower difficulty)
    I only did one raid mission ever just to unlock the mastery track and for the rest I limited myself to a bit more relaxed parts of the game.

    But well, I understand the current raid missions have their appeal to the top-tier of PvE players for a reason.

    Ascalon Will Prevail!

    GW Wiki user page | GW2 Wiki user page

  • @Cyninja.2954 said:

    I'm sorry, that's not how a MMOs work or games with multiple game modes and activities. You don't get to cherry pick based on your own wishes, not if you understand yourself as a part of a bigger community.

    This is a thought more people ought to entertain.

    Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- Santayana