Proposal for changing the might corruption table

Currently if any amount of might it affected by a boon corrupt, it is converted into 10sec of weakness. 10 seconds of weakness is extremely powerful, which might be warranted if say a entire stack of 25 might was corrupted, but getting 10 seconds of weakness for simply corrupting 1 stack of might is clearly out of balance. This is particularly problematic given that there are a number of classes that incrementally generate might whether they want to or not. (power Reaper, all engi variants, strength warrior, some ele variants, some ranger variants, most rev variants)

To address this I propose the following change be made to the boon conversion table.

Currently the conversion table behaves like this:

• X stacks of might -> 10 seconds of weakness
• Protection - > 3 stacks of Vulnerability

New proposed conversion table:

• X stacks of might -> X stacks of vulnerability
• Protection -> 6 seconds of weakness

This proposed system creates more equality in corrupts by making the gain from might corruption proportional to the might corrupted. Moving weakness to protection's conversion is also more balanced since 3 stacks of vulnerability that protection currently corrupts to are weak compared to how potent protection is.

Maybe Weakness should instead just reduce Power and Condition Damage by same amount as Might increases them, while stacking same way as Might does.This way, we would have more counterplay to condi builds and corrupting Might wouldn't be as painful as is now.

@Morwath.9817 said:Maybe Weakness should instead just reduce Power and Condition Damage by same amount as Might increases them, while stacking same way as Might does.This way, we would have more counterplay to condi builds and corrupting Might wouldn't be as painful as is now.

Why though? Outside of might corruption, weakness is very rare. If you where to change weakness to intensity stacking, you'd have to completely rebalance a slew of traits and skills across multiple professions. However by simply flipping two values on the conversion table you can balance might conversion without having to rebalance all of that. No need to fix what isn't broken.Moreover having protection convert into weakness makes more sense as protection is a rare but potent boon, and weakness is a rare but potent condi.

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Morwath.9817 said:Maybe Weakness should instead just reduce Power and Condition Damage by same amount as Might increases them, while stacking same way as Might does.This way, we would have more counterplay to condi builds and corrupting Might wouldn't be as painful as is now.

Because even if it may be a bit more work, it would solve more issues at once: a) weakness wouldn't be as punishing, b) it would corrupt X to X, c) it would affect condi.

There's a lot of good inputs on balance on the forums lately and i'm just sad that all efforts from you guys are in vain.

I would rather just lower the duration of most conversions, boon and condition, and remove the scaling with duration. In fact there are a bunch of duration and stack changes that should happen to the tables.

Besides the current conversions make sense by type. Going from doing more damage to doing less damage and taking less damage to taking more damage makes more sense than doing more damage then taking more and taking less damage then doing less. Also means they don't really need to re-balance a whole bunch of active defence on necromancer.

None of this removes the fact that boons, conditions, damage and defence are all far to prevalent and high. Though the community should be careful what it wishes for because when it gets it the likelihood is it wont like it.

@Sigmoid.7082 said:I would rather just lower the duration of most conversions, boon and condition, and remove the scaling with duration. In fact there are a bunch of duration and stack changes that should happen to the tables.

Besides the current conversions make sense by type. Going from doing more damage to doing less damage and taking less damage to taking more damage makes more sense than doing more damage then taking more and taking less damage then doing less. Also means they don't really need to re-balance a whole bunch of active defence on necromancer.

None of this removes the fact that boons, conditions, damage and defence are all far to prevalent and high. Though the community should be careful what it wishes for because when it gets it the likelihood is it wont like it.

As a necromancer main, I would argue that having my class's self-defense hedgepinned on the assumption of being able to maintain 100% weakness uptime from might corruption is not healthy for my class.

Also while yes the current conversion table makes sense thematically, it's not to hard to justify the proposed table either. If might is the mechanical representation of our character's strength, then losing that strength would leave our character more vulnerable.

Alternatively you could flip might and vigor's conversion, since vigor -> weakness does make more sense than vigor -> bleeding.

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:I would rather just lower the duration of most conversions, boon and condition, and remove the scaling with duration. In fact there are a bunch of duration and stack changes that should happen to the tables.

Besides the current conversions make sense by type. Going from doing more damage to doing less damage and taking less damage to taking more damage makes more sense than doing more damage then taking more and taking less damage then doing less. Also means they don't really need to re-balance a whole bunch of active defence on necromancer.

None of this removes the fact that boons, conditions, damage and defence are all far to prevalent and high. Though the community should be careful what it wishes for because when it gets it the likelihood is it wont like it.

Yeah I've mained necro just as long as you have.

I never said 100% but its always been high and not just from might corruption. It would have, is, and always will be taken into consideration. Changing the table won't change that. The only problem is because of the increase in boons and the resulting increase in corruption its become the main source. Also disagree with your justification its harder to do since might isn't the representation of character strength since your character is already strong, its extra strength. Losing extra strength in no way would make you any more vulnerable than your base ability but having it flipped on you is far more likely to make your attacks feeble,being drained of strength, than make you suffer greater from damage. Its not only makes sense thematically but mechanically. when it comes to the expected swing in combat.

No boon or condition for conversion should last any more than 2~3s. They should be short lived but impactful so the goal isn't to convert everything without care but to remove stuff with an aim to capitalise on the swing in combat. The tables are outdated for how much the game has changed.

None of this detract from the fact that there still is currently too much of everything for anything to be considered truly impactful..I would honestly rather see PoC changed.

Or they could simply not have a 600 range instant cast AoE 2 boon corrupt on an 8s cool down, sorry, 6.5s cool down because every necromancer ever takes soul reaping.

I’d say add a cast time so people can at least dodge it but I can already here the army of the dead grabbing the torches and pitchforks.

@apharma.3741 said:Or they could simply not have a 600 range instant cast AoE 2 boon corrupt on an 8s cool down, sorry, 6.5s cool down because every necromancer ever takes soul reaping.

I’d say add a cast time so people can at least dodge it but I can already here the army of the dead grabbing the torches and pitchforks.

oh yeah it would be great to have a casttime on your only reliable condiremove... not

@apharma.3741 said:Or they could simply not have a 600 range instant cast AoE 2 boon corrupt on an 8s cool down, sorry, 6.5s cool down because every necromancer ever takes soul reaping.

I’d say add a cast time so people can at least dodge it but I can already here the army of the dead grabbing the torches and pitchforks.

Key distinction, it's two 300 radius areas, not just a 600 radius around either Sand Shade or Scourge..

@Chaith.8256 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Or they could simply not have a 600 range instant cast AoE 2 boon corrupt on an 8s cool down, sorry, 6.5s cool down because every necromancer ever takes soul reaping.

I’d say add a cast time so people can at least dodge it but I can already here the army of the dead grabbing the torches and pitchforks.

True, I should probably have made that clear. Thanks for the clarification.

@Nameless.1307 it doesnt have to be a 3s cast time, it could be 1/2s and work fine. There are plenty of skills that are reliable cleanses with 1/2s cast, some are even as long as 1s.

I think just changing it to 3-4 secs would be pretty reasonable. Still effective, can be prolonged with condi duration, still stacks with other traits or skills so you can get a nice uptime...

@Namless.4028 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Or they could simply not have a 600 range instant cast AoE 2 boon corrupt on an 8s cool down, sorry, 6.5s cool down because every necromancer ever takes soul reaping.

I’d say add a cast time so people can at least dodge it but I can already here the army of the dead grabbing the torches and pitchforks.

*laugh in rev"imo, a cast time would destroy the spec in pve, i'd like them to keep the instant cast but add a delay and an actually distinguishable animation.

@apharma.3741 said:Or they could simply not have a 600 range instant cast AoE 2 boon corrupt on an 8s cool down, sorry, 6.5s cool down because every necromancer ever takes soul reaping.

I’d say add a cast time so people can at least dodge it but I can already here the army of the dead grabbing the torches and pitchforks.

Can we get a cast time on mesmer shatter skills while we are at it. It is the same concept, except with mesmer they fire heat seeking missiles at you vs you actively standing in a red circle with a big yellow face.

@Crinn.7864 said:Currently if any amount of might it affected by a boon corrupt, it is converted into 10sec of weakness. 10 seconds of weakness is extremely powerful, which might be warranted if say a entire stack of 25 might was corrupted, but getting 10 seconds of weakness for simply corrupting 1 stack of might is clearly out of balance. This is particularly problematic given that there are a number of classes that incrementally generate might whether they want to or not. (power Reaper, all engi variants, strength warrior, some ele variants, some ranger variants, most rev variants)

To address this I propose the following change be made to the boon conversion table.

Currently the conversion table behaves like this:

• X stacks of might -> 10 seconds of weakness
• Protection - > 3 stacks of Vulnerability

New proposed conversion table:

• X stacks of might -> X stacks of vulnerability
• Protection -> 6 seconds of weakness

This proposed system creates more equality in corrupts by making the gain from might corruption proportional to the might corrupted. Moving weakness to protection's conversion is also more balanced since 3 stacks of vulnerability that protection currently corrupts to are weak compared to how potent protection is.

This logically makes no sense. Weakness is the opposite of might. Vulnerability is the opposite of protection.

X stacks of might --> x seconds of weakness makes sense.

@Faux Play.6104 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Or they could simply not have a 600 range instant cast AoE 2 boon corrupt on an 8s cool down, sorry, 6.5s cool down because every necromancer ever takes soul reaping.

I’d say add a cast time so people can at least dodge it but I can already here the army of the dead grabbing the torches and pitchforks.

Sure, also make shades destructible and have to move towards the target at base movement speed in order to get the effect of your shroud skill, sound fair? No? Probably because they are entirely different skills working on entirely different mechanics.

I'm just glad people are looking at weakness. It's stupid how much of it there is.

@apharma.3741 said:

@Faux Play.6104 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Or they could simply not have a 600 range instant cast AoE 2 boon corrupt on an 8s cool down, sorry, 6.5s cool down because every necromancer ever takes soul reaping.

I’d say add a cast time so people can at least dodge it but I can already here the army of the dead grabbing the torches and pitchforks.

The mechanics are pretty similar. Effects exist both at the caster and at the shade/clone. For shades someone needs to be standing inside one. Illusions can be traited with super speed.

@Faux Play.6104 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Faux Play.6104 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Or they could simply not have a 600 range instant cast AoE 2 boon corrupt on an 8s cool down, sorry, 6.5s cool down because every necromancer ever takes soul reaping.

I’d say add a cast time so people can at least dodge it but I can already here the army of the dead grabbing the torches and pitchforks.

As I say, make shades destructible with about 3k health, sounds fair right?

@apharma.3741 said:

@Faux Play.6104 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Faux Play.6104 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Or they could simply not have a 600 range instant cast AoE 2 boon corrupt on an 8s cool down, sorry, 6.5s cool down because every necromancer ever takes soul reaping.

I’d say add a cast time so people can at least dodge it but I can already here the army of the dead grabbing the torches and pitchforks.

Then i want F5 to make invulnerable

@Namless.4028 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Faux Play.6104 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Faux Play.6104 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Or they could simply not have a 600 range instant cast AoE 2 boon corrupt on an 8s cool down, sorry, 6.5s cool down because every necromancer ever takes soul reaping.

I’d say add a cast time so people can at least dodge it but I can already here the army of the dead grabbing the torches and pitchforks.

OK but increase it’s cool down by 250% and you only get 1s per shade out where they all get destroyed. In fact you’d need to double all shroud skill cool downs and make them do a lot less without traiting. Path of Corruption obviously only corrupting 1 boon per shade. Choose to run 1 shade? Tough sheets.

Im fine if we say 200%Only corrupt 1 boon is fine, but we also need to add one stack of burning or torment to f1

Doesn't sound bad, now add glancing to condis ticking and we're fine.

@apharma.3741 said:

@Faux Play.6104 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Faux Play.6104 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Or they could simply not have a 600 range instant cast AoE 2 boon corrupt on an 8s cool down, sorry, 6.5s cool down because every necromancer ever takes soul reaping.

I’d say add a cast time so people can at least dodge it but I can already here the army of the dead grabbing the torches and pitchforks.

Would put them about on par with renegade skills. Sounds balanced.