Countless Mesmer & Mirage Changes & More

Since It's been a while since the expansion came out I'd like to give my honest thoughts on what changes could be made to mesmer for the sake of build diversity, I'll also be talking about core mesmer changes, overall build changes, weapon changes, rune changes, and passive traits, so strap yourself in because this thread might be a bit long. Lets get the overall changes out of the way first.

Talent Tree Changes

-- If you choose not to slot into a major grandmaster trait, you may choose a major master trait or minor adept trait in it's place. Same goes for If you choose not to slot a major master trait, you may choose a minor adept trait in it's place.

The reason of this change is obviously to give the player more choice if they choose not to trait into higher tier traits and trait the lower tier instead because it fits their build/playstyle.

Passive Invuln & Stealth

--The two that come to mind straight away are Desperate Decoy for mesmer, Self-Regulating Defenses for engi, among others. There needs to be something done to give these passive traits a more active role. I don't care what it is, any type of active play triggering it is better than a passive health threshold. Just to throw some off the wall examples that may or may not be good, have desperate decoy give you stealth on successfully casting your heal, etc.

Runes

Runes -- Make runes give on screen procs where needed, to give a few examples such as rune of surging#6 and lyssa#6, so that the player can act accordingly rather trying to estimate the cooldown instead.

Now to the mesmer changes

Weapon Changes

Off hand Sword:

illusionary reposte: Block incoming attacks for a short duration and create an illusion when attackedDamage: 36Block Duration 1 1/2 secondsCounter Blade: Swap places with the illusion created by illusionary riposte and release the energy stored blade by your blocked attack in a area of effect by stabbing your sword in the ground, knocking enemies down within the radius. "the animation will be similar to greatsword 3, except with a off hand sword instead without the illusionary blade animation afterwards”. You will only have a 5 second window to swap after a successful block “same amount of time as main hand sword 3”Damage : 710Radius: 240Max targets knocked down: 3Knockdown time: 1 secondRange: 600Cast time : ¾ second. You can cast this while moving

Phantasmal Swordsman: This ability is now summoned on the target, similar to phantasmal beserker. For being a melee phantasm, it shouldn't have to run a marathon to get to its target.

--Shield--

Tides Of Time: This skill no longer stuns enemies on its return trip. However touching the wave still reduces the cooldown of this skill. NOTES : The ability to stun 10 peoplewith one ability is kinda absurd, therefore only being able to stun 5 is still a bit extreme in my opinion, but a good start.

--Off Hand Focus--

Phantasmal Warden: This phantasm now chases its target until destroyed or shattered. There is no stop and go animation between attacks.

--Pistol--

Magic Bullet: Hit up to four foes with a single shot. The first target is stunned, the second is dazed, the third is blinded, and the fourth is confused. If there is no target for the bullet tobounce to, then the target is stunned for 2 seconds, followed by a 2 second daze, blinded, and confused.Damage: 71Confusion: 6 3/4 secondsBlindness: 5 secondsStun: 2 secondsDaze: 2 secondsNumber Of Bounces: 3Combo Finisher: Physical ProjectileRange: 1200

Traitlines

--Domination--

Imagined Burden: Your Greatsword skills are improved "This trait has been redesigned"-Spacial Surge - Number of targets increased from 3 to 4-Mirror Blade - Gives 4 stacks of might instead of 3 --Mind Stab - Now removes 2 boons from foes instead of 1, and transfers one random condition from you to your foe.-Phantasmal Beserker - Number of impacts increased from 4 to 5-illusionary wave - knockback increased from 450 to 600

Blurred Inscriptions: Conditions removed increased from 1 to 2

Mental Anguish : Shatter skills deal more damage, This damage increaseis higher against foes that have 20 or more stacks of vulnerability-damage increase 15%-damage increase with 20 stacks of vuln – 40%

Power Block : Interrupts deal damage and inflict weakness, Enemy skillsthat you interrupt have an increased cooldown. (If you interrupt a skillthat has no recharge, inflict slow for 2 seconds.)Damage 399

--Inspiration--

Wardens Feedback: Your focus skills have been improved. Gain access to the following-Focus recharge reduced by 20%

• Temporal Curtain: Now also grants super speed to yourself and allies for 3 seconds upon first entering. Reflects projectiles
• Into The Void: Now cripples foes upon activation. Damages all foes based off how many are enemies pulled.Max number of of foes crippled: 5Cripple duration: 3 secondsVoid Damage 1 Enemy : 210Void Damage 2 Enemies : 231Void Damage 3 Enemies: 252Void Damage 4 Enemies: 273Void Damage 5 Enemies: 294

Healing Prism: This trait now scales with the base heal you use. For example healing prism is on a 10 second icd and heals nearby allies for 532 base. So if you were to use ether feast which is a 20 second heal skill, healing prism would heal nearby allies for 1064, therefore giving the minor grandmaster more diversity for long cooldown heal skills as well, instead of being only min maxed for only low cooldown heals such as mantra of recovery.

--Chaos--

Mirror of Anguish "This skill has been redesigned" The duration of chaos armor has been increased to 6 seconds. Every 2 seconds, chaos armor converts 1 random condition into a random boon.

--Dueling--

Desperate Decoy: Cloak and leave a clone of yourself behind when you successfully use a heal skill. Cooldown 25 seconds.

--Mirage--

Mirage Mirrors: https://imgur.com/EyzMxzb - Instead of the idea of running over the mirrors, you instead get them as charges "to a max of 3", and use said charges through its own specific shatter. Specifics are in the link.

Speed of sand: This trait has been merged into the minor adept "Mirage Cloak"

Mirage Cloak "Updated": Gain Mirage Cloak instead of dodge rolling. Ambush skills become available for a short time whenever you gain mirage cloak. Gain Access to Deception skills. Gain superspeed when you gain mirage cloak.-Mirage Cloak- 1 second-Ambush attack window 1 1/2 seconds-Superspeed duration 1 second

Elusive Mind: This is now a minor grandmaster trait, and has been changed to the following.

• Dodging breaks stun "No longer cleanses conditions"

Elusive Cleanse: "This is the new Grandmaster trait where Elusive mind used to be." Dodging now cleanses a condition. Conditions cleansed "1".

Sand Shards: Strike nearby foes inflicting bleeding.Damage: 300Bleeding: 3 (4 seconds)
Number of targets: 5Radius : 240

--Traits--

Crystal sands - Destroy all your active illusions, giving you a mirage charge for each illusion destroyed.Cast time: 1/2 secondCooldown: 32 seconds

Nullfield: Now breaks stun "There still isn't a glamour that gives you a stun break, null field is the most fitting in my opinion"

Mimic: The cooldown of this skill is double of the skill that it's used on. For example blink is 30 seconds, if you used mimic on blink the cooldown of mimic would be 60 seconds. So for illusion of life, mimic would have a 240 second cooldown. Which gives it a good balance of not punishing you as much for shorter cooldowns such as blink, but punishing you quite a bit for using it on longer cooldown skills like illusion of life.

--Heal Skill--

Signet of the Ether: Signet Passive - Now heals you every time a illusion is summoned for 114 health base rather than a interval of 1 second. Regardless of pve or pvp you're going to be summoning illusions for damage, so this way even if you shatter straight away you still get the healing bonus from summoning the illusion.

Jaunt: Ranged increased to 500

Let me know what you guys think. Again thanks for reading, appreciate it.

Countless

Yes please:- "Runes -- Make runes give on screen procs where needed." -Seems good- "The two that come to mind straight away are Desperate Decoy for mesmer, Self-Regulating Defenses for engi, among others. There needs to be something done to give these passive traits a more active role." -Seems good- "Phantasmal Swordsman: This ability is now summoned on the target, similar to phantasmal beserker. For being a melee phantasm, it shouldn't have to run a marathon to get to its target." -Seems good- Phantasmal Warden: This phantasm now chases its target until destroyed or shattered. There is no stop and go animation between attacks. -Seems good- Imagined Burden: Your Greatsword skills are improved "This trait has been redesigned". -Seems good.- Blurred Inscriptions: Conditions removed increased from 1 to 2. -Nice buff for the Countless build, well played.- Healing Prism: This trait now scales with the base heal you use. -So this trait when using Signet of the Countless build will be buffed by 350%, from 532 to 1,862, well played.- Mimic: The cooldown of this skill is double of the skill that it's used on. -Seems good*- Mirror of Anguish "This skill has been redesigned" The duration of chaos armor has been increased to 6 seconds. Every 2 seconds, chaos armor converts 1 random condition into a random boon. -Seems good.

Okay, sure, but:- "Tides Of Time: This skill no longer stuns enemies on its return trip. However touching the wave still reduces the cooldown of this skill. NOTES : The ability to stun 10 people" -Slight nerf to PvP Chrono, why?- Mental Anguish : Shatter skills deal more (15%) damage, This damage increase is higher against foes (40%) that have 20 or more stacks of vulnerability. -Maybe deal an additional 2% damage for each vuln stack present as to not be so 1-shot binary.- Wardens Feedback: Your focus skills have been improved. -Will still be dead in PvP but that's probably ok, possibly applicable in WvW/PvE- Sand Shards: Radius increased from 180 to 240, damage increased by 225% -Sure, but no way with your other changes to Elusive Mind.

No, what the hell:- "If you choose not to slot into a major grandmaster trait, you may choose a major master trait or minor adept trait in it's place. Same goes for If you choose not to slot a major master trait, you may choose a minor adept trait in it's place." - This would likely create unintended consequences for specific classes, but not others.- "Magic Bullet: If there is no target for the bullet to bounce to, then the target is stunned for 2 seconds, followed by a 2 second daze, blinded, and confused. If it hits only one target, 4s of chained CC is overkill but allowing it to Blind and Confuse is fine.- "Desperate Decoy: Cloak and leave a clone of yourself behind when you successfully use a heal skill. Cooldown 25 seconds" CD reduced from 40s to 25s, and you get to control exactly when it happens - allowing it to be used offensively in meta/viable builds. No way. You'd have to add another limit to this skill, such as, must be under 50% HP.- Buff JAUNT Currently Meta/Viable.- Buff Sword Off-Hand Currently Meta/Viable.- Buff Null Field Currently Meta/Viable.- Buff Power Block Currently Meta/Viable.- Adding stunbreak on dodge baseline, allowing meta builds to get a better Grandmaster, and simultaneously buffing the other Grandmaster's Dune Cloak's Sand Shards.*- Changing Mirage Mirrors. They may be janky but you need to counterbalance them with many nerfs if you're proposing to buff them by eliminating their positioning downsides, and add a new shatter that will benefit from all shatter mechanics.

Mesmer has most build diversity of any profession in PvP, Mesmer has 4 distinct builds that are meta/viable in AT's and Scrims. Condi Chrono, Power Mirage, DPS Condi Mirage, and Dueling Condi Mirage.

I approve of all QoL changes and buffs to un-viable things but.. the handful of your proposed buffs to viable/meta things :thinking:It's really Necromancer/Engineer/Revenant whose traits and skills are in shambles outside of the one meta build.

Moving EM to a minor trait is absurdly broken, even if you remove the condi cleanse.

Lol elusive mind, a minor, I’m glad I chose to wait till someone replied and read the replies rather than waste my time reading the entire thing. As usual stay biased and I hope the devs don’t impliment most of what you put.

The reason of this change is obviously to give the player more choice if they choose not to trait into higher tier traits and trait the lower tier instead because it fits their build/playstyle.

More choice does not equate more balance. Furthermore, by allowing players to forego a Master or Grandmaster trait for a lower tier removes the meaningful choice of picking one of three traits in a single tier. Finally, build diversity goes so far as the next popular guide website.

Magic Bullet: Hit up to four foes with a single shot. The first target is stunned, the second is dazed, the third is blinded, and the fourth is confused. If there is no target for the bullet to bounce to, then the target is stunned for 2 seconds, followed by a 2 second daze, blinded, and confused.

What a ridiculous change. Please elaborate your reasoning for making this skill so much more powerful.

Changes to Elusive Mind

Again, another absurd change. Condition cleanse on dodge as a Grandmaster trait, in and on itself it horrendously weak, making it a non-choice over Infinite Horizon or Dune Cloak. Then you put a stunbreak on dodge as a minor trait. What? Why?

I really like your idea about iWarden, and a few of other QoL/small improvements you've proposed (e.g., Speed of Sand merged with adept minor, iSwordsman spawning closer to its target). Increased radius on Sand Shards & range on Jaunt would be very nice, even if it meant less condis. I'm not sure about Signet of Ether, but it looks interesting.Other things I'm not too fond of/don't have an opinion on, but Elusive Mind's stun break baseline is just nope.

Why would you even change Tides of Time.

Same goes for Jaunt. This skill is in the right place at the moment.

As far as I can see, mesmers are already doing pretty well recently with all these viable ways to play whether Condi or power , Chrono or mirage. We don't really need real buffs. Some other classes need nerfs. We are in a good spot and many are complaining about us. What we could take are those fixes to buggy things

Meh I was going to start addressing points, then I got through half the suggestions and realized, why bother. None of this will get implemented anyway, it reeks of subjective desires instead of balance and on top of all, has mistakes as far as how skills currently behave.

I can't take people seriously who don't even understand one of our most used skills while suggesting changes to it when all it takes is taking a look at the wiki or using the skill in any multi target environment. The suggested change would indeed reduce the amount of people affected, but not the way you are describing it.

This skill has no target limit, and will affect all targets it passes through.

• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tides_of_Time

@Cyninja.2954 said:Meh I was going to start addressing points, then I got through half the suggestions and realized, why bother. None of this will get implemented anyway, it reeks of subjective desires instead of balance and on top of all, has mistakes as far as how skills currently behave.

Pretty much this. And I love discussions about skill changes (though for all of the OP's ones I'd say they're tiny nudges instead of the skill changes the game desperately needs), but let's face it, not even these number modifications would ever get implemented. Much less any actual class reworks.

@Chaith.8256 I'm looking at mesmer as a whole. Regarding your comments on signets and healing prism, let me just get out of the way that the build I tried to make work compared to inspiration simply wasn't viable, there simply wasn't enough sustain in terms of condition clear compared to inspiration, I think It's a well needed change to both said skills. And just to clarify, I'm not even running blurred inscriptions anymore or dom for that matter, I tried, but it's just not enough clear. If you're going to call me out based on bias, give me a good argument as to why, not saying "well played" like you accomplished something on your end. In terms of the changes to mirage, Elusive mind is hands down picked every time, the other 2 grand masters will never be used because of it. So the idea was to split the functionality of elusive mind, making you choose between the condi clear and the damage of the other 2 traits. If the majority of people feel that this is too much, then that's fine. I'd be more than willing to take nerfs to sand shards and infinite horizon to compensate for this.

I understand it's a buff, however it's kinda crappy design that one trait would be so appealing that there's essentially no question as to what you're going to trait regardless of build in pvp. When it comes to tides of time, I'm pretty sure I stated why, perhaps you didn't read it? I think it's a little much for one ability to stun multiple people twice, therefore making it to where it doesn't stun on the return trip. When it comes to desperate decoy, I actually agree with you being under 50% health for it being able to proc, I like it.

And if you're unhappy about the diversity of your own class on engi, then pitch ideas. You've played it enough, I'm sure you can come up with something.

While I agree with many of your core mesmer buffs, as with your previous balance suggestions (especially Focus, I like that), I heavily disagree with the proposed Mirage changes.

I don't want an "F5" shatter, I don't want to micromanage "charges" in addition to illusions and I certainly don't want stunbreak on dodge as the GM minor trait. I actually like Mirage Mirrors as they currently are - a simple cooldown reduction on Sand through Glass and adding a mirror to Mirage Advance would make them more accessible to use in addition to normal dodging.

Personally I would like condi cleanse on dodge put on Renewing Oasis (get rid of the useless condi duration reduction for damaging conditions and instead have straightforward cleanse one condition whenever you gain mirage cloak), move Infinite Horizon to Grandmaster minor trait, then create a new GM major trait along the lines of a direct damage dodge modification - eg, cast "Lesser Mind Wrack" (or similar) whenever you dodge - a single self shatter dealing pbaoe damage to up to 5 enemies around the mesmer only (clones do not shatter), and dodging becomes a blast finisher. Kind of the Mirage equivalent to Bound, without the movement - call it "Shattered Expectations" or something.

On Elusive Mind simply have it remove one movement impairing condition (either Immobilise/Chill/Cripple, in that priority order) in addition to stunbreak, so it cannot remove other conditions (you'd need to take Renewing Oasis for that which prevents access to more burst through Riddle of Sand or clone generation through Self Deception - so it's a choice between survivability and damage/damage utility).

That way we'd have condi dodge (Dune Cloak), power dodge (Shattered Expectations) and defensive dodge (Elusive Mind), with everyone having access to Infinite Horizon through the minor, which can then be balanced accordingly for all ambushes.

@Trigr.6481 said:@Chaith.8256 I'm looking at mesmer as a whole. Regarding your comments on signets and healing prism, let me just get out of the way that the build I tried to make work compared to inspiration simply wasn't viable, there simply wasn't enough sustain in terms of condition clear compared to inspiration, I think It's a well needed change to both said skills. And just to clarify, I'm not even running blurred inscriptions anymore or dom for that matter, I tried, but it's just not enough clear. If you're going to call me out based on bias, give me a good argument as to why, not saying "well played" like you accomplished something on your end. In terms of the changes to mirage, Elusive mind is hands down picked every time, the other 2 grand masters will never be used because of it. So the idea was to split the functionality of elusive mind, making you choose between the condi clear and the damage of the other 2 traits. If the majority of people feel that this is too much, then that's fine. I'd be more than willing to take nerfs to sand shards and infinite horizon to compensate for this.

I understand it's a buff, however it's kinda crappy design that one trait would be so appealing that there's essentially no question as to what you're going to trait regardless of build in pvp. When it comes to tides of time, I'm pretty sure I stated why, perhaps you didn't read it? I think it's a little much for one ability to stun multiple people twice, therefore making it to where it doesn't stun on the return trip. When it comes to desperate decoy, I actually agree with you being under 50% health for it being able to proc, I like it.

And if you're unhappy about the diversity of your own class on engi, then pitch ideas. You've played it enough, I'm sure you can come up with something.

Don't be so on guard about blurred inscriptions and healing prism. They were in my "yes please" category. Oh and check the Engi forums, I suggested changes to every non-viable mechanic.

Not much is organized for me to go through but I skimmed through a bit of it. But anyways, in my opinion they should just have any traits geared towards our illusions be baseline and then fill those said traits with something else that either affects our weapons, utilities or damage? <3

@Trigr.6481 said:@Chaith.8256 I'm looking at mesmer as a whole. Regarding your comments on signets and healing prism, let me just get out of the way that the build I tried to make work compared to inspiration simply wasn't viable, there simply wasn't enough sustain in terms of condition clear compared to inspiration, I think It's a well needed change to both said skills. And just to clarify, I'm not even running blurred inscriptions anymore or dom for that matter, I tried, but it's just not enough clear. If you're going to call me out based on bias, give me a good argument as to why, not saying "well played" like you accomplished something on your end. In terms of the changes to mirage, Elusive mind is hands down picked every time, the other 2 grand masters will never be used because of it. So the idea was to split the functionality of elusive mind, making you choose between the condi clear and the damage of the other 2 traits. If the majority of people feel that this is too much, then that's fine. I'd be more than willing to take nerfs to sand shards and infinite horizon to compensate for this.

I understand it's a buff, however it's kinda crappy design that one trait would be so appealing that there's essentially no question as to what you're going to trait regardless of build in pvp. When it comes to tides of time, I'm pretty sure I stated why, perhaps you didn't read it? I think it's a little much for one ability to stun multiple people twice, therefore making it to where it doesn't stun on the return trip. When it comes to desperate decoy, I actually agree with you being under 50% health for it being able to proc, I like it.

And if you're unhappy about the diversity of your own class on engi, then pitch ideas. You've played it enough, I'm sure you can come up with something.

Wut? Stunbreak on dodge as a minor is ridiculously overpowered, and even after that was pointed out to you, your solution is to nerf IH and sand shards so that people still take the condi cleanse GM regardless? Dude I don't get this, at all.

@Trigr.6481 Elusive mind is hands down picked every time, the other 2 grand masters will never be used because of it. So the idea was to split the functionality of elusive mind, making you choose between the condi clear and the damage of the other 2 traits. *If the majority of people feel that this is too much, then that's fine. I'd be more than willing to take nerfs to sand shards and infinite horizon to compensate for this

Him offering to nerf IH and Sand Shards is bargaining in order to still keep the suggestion of making stunbreak on dodge baseline for mirage. It'd in theory be an actual choice whether to take all 3 GM traits based on how much IH and Sand Shards are nerfed.

Overall I think buffing IH and sand shards, and NOT changing EM would be fun. I want there to be a Mesmer build without any of that defensive crap that's viable.

@Chaith.8256 said:Him offering to nerf IH and Sand Shards is bargaining in order to still keep the suggestion of making stunbreak on dodge baseline for mirage. It'd in theory be an actual choice whether to take all 3 GM traits based on how much IH and Sand Shards are nerfed.

Overall I think buffing IH and sand shards, and NOT changing EM would be fun. I want there to be a Mesmer build without any of that defensive crap that's viable.

Yeah but why nerf everything for PvP reasons, when it is the least-played game mode? You don't pick EM in PvE, because why would you, and it also begs the question why even have such a GM trait if it competes against actual traits?

@Carighan.6758 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:Him offering to nerf IH and Sand Shards is bargaining in order to still keep the suggestion of making stunbreak on dodge baseline for mirage. It'd in theory be an actual

choice

whether to take all 3 GM traits based on how much IH and Sand Shards are nerfed.

Overall I think buffing IH and sand shards, and NOT changing EM would be fun. I want there to be a Mesmer build without any of that defensive crap that's viable.

Well I'm sure EM is useful for more than PvP. WvW, non-raid PvE, etc. Countless forgot to add this is a thread about PvP, skill split potential exists also. I stand by what I said in that the OP's suggestions with EM should just cease to exist and tune up Sand Shards utility.

@Chaith.8256 said:

@Trigr.6481 Elusive mind is hands down picked every time, the other 2 grand masters will never be used because of it. So the idea was to split the functionality of elusive mind, making you choose between the condi clear and the damage of the other 2 traits. *If the majority of people feel that this is too much, then that's fine. I'd be more than willing to take nerfs to sand shards and infinite horizon to compensate for this

That's the thing. Stunbreak on dodge as a minor is ridiculously broken. Nerfing other traits doesn't balance that at all, and will just make everyone go pick the condi cleanse anyway, leaving us in the same state we are now for competitive modes, but without any actual choice. Its nothing but bad decisions and logic to get there.

EM needs to be changed, not turned into a baseline trait.

@OriOri.8724 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:

@Trigr.6481 Elusive mind is hands down picked every time, the other 2 grand masters will never be used because of it. So the idea was to split the functionality of elusive mind, making you choose between the condi clear and the damage of the other 2 traits. *If the majority of people feel that this is too much, then that's fine. I'd be more than willing to take nerfs to sand shards and infinite horizon to compensate for this

I agree, as per my suggestions, was playing devil's advocate