Griffon "required" for HP runs in HoT?

Disclaimer: I have all mastery points and mounts, including the Griffon unlocked

On an alt in HoT doing an HP run and someone complained the cmdr was using the Griffon when they didn't have one, making it harder to get around VB. A few other ppl in the group also called this out.

Is it now expected for group runs (HP, bounty, PvE in general) to have the Griffon?

Usually they say so on the LFG listing. If they don't and the commander has a griffon.. it's unreasonable to expect others to have one, especially in HOT content.For POF yeah a lot of groups expect it for HP trains from what I've seen. Bounty isn't really needed though.

i consider it as dumb cmdr to use tools the others dont have. all hp in hot are ofc reachable without pof mounts. i only know 3hp where leyline gliding helps alot but you can also reach them with gliding. and ofc the 4 hps in dragons stand which require the meta event to be done (no mount needed)

if you are a cmdr offering a hp run it should be your interest that all groupmembers get the hps done which requires all members to reach the hps on time. specially the members which join the run cause they did not find a way to reach certain hps.

@Evolute.6239 said:Usually they say so on the LFG listing. If they don't and the commander has a griffon.. it's unreasonable to expect others to have one, especially in HOT content.For POF yeah a lot of groups expect it for HP trains from what I've seen. Bounty isn't really needed though.

Agree.It's a good thing that commanders add to hp run description that Griffon is needed or not.

they cut their own hands with this req, not such a huge amount of ppl have them so you can expect ppl ignoring the "commander" and play with the raptor instead.

tl;dr If you don't have a griffon (or any mount for that matter), ask when you join the squad if the commander can do the run without.If the commander won't, find another group.

@Tic Tac Toe.1482 said:Is it now expected for group runs (HP, bounty, PvE in general) to have the Griffon?

Some people will expect it; some won't.Some who expect it might not realize that others joining the squad won't know about this implied requirement. Why? Because many HoT+PoF owners forget that there are HoT-only or PoF-only players. Many PoF owners forget that not every PoF owner has unlocked the griffon.

Commanders don't get a salary for volunteering to tag up and bring people along. There's no hiring manager to ensure that they have any qualifications other than having spent 100-300 gold for the privilege. It's not reasonable to expect that any particular commander will be good at leading; it's not reasonable to expect that every good leader will remember to include special requirements in the squad message.

While it's fair to hope that commanders will maintain a speed suitable to everyone in the squad, it's not reasonable to expect that they will do so, nor even that they'll want to.

In short, when we choose to follow someone else, it's up to us to figure out how to keep up. That might include asking graciously for a no-griffon run or bowing out and finding another group.

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:tl;dr If you don't have a griffon (or any mount for that matter), ask when you join the squad if the commander can do the run without.If the commander won't, find another group.

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@Tic Tac Toe.1482 said:Is it now expected for group runs (HP, bounty, PvE in general) to have the Griffon?

That's a good point regarding not everyone has everything unlocked yet, one that I forget often. I've had the Heart of Thorns masteries maxed for so long now that I'm amazed that guild members are still working through things like Nulhoc Wallows and Ley Gliding.

If I forget that, I'm sure there are others too.

Griffon does make exploring the maguuma something of a joke - so I can see the benefit of using one. But, IMO, Griffons are too fast for any casual group members to keep up pace with (even if said casuals had griffons or mounts) - so marching would probably be the fastest way to get everyone to the point.

That is, if the Commander's goal was to enable EVERYONE in the squad to get a hero point.

@Westenev.5289 said:Griffon does make exploring the maguuma something of a joke - so I can see the benefit of using one. But, IMO, Griffons are too fast for any casual group members to keep up pace with (even if said casuals had griffons or mounts) - so marching would probably be the fastest way to get everyone to the point.

That is, if the Commander's goal was to enable EVERYONE in the squad to get a hero point.

It's easy when leading to get caught up in the mindset of "I've got to do this as fast as possible".But your point is very apt I think: if this is the commander's goal (to include everyone), they would not be using a griffon.

It definitely shouldn't be required. It's not actually necessary to use the griffon (or any mount) to get anything in HoT and I think it's unreasonable to assume that everyone in the group will have all the mounts. Therefore I think commanders should default to not using mounts. On the other hand I can understand that people who join HP trains probably want to get it done ASAP, and that would mean using the mounts if they have them.

Ideally commanders should either specify when forming the group that they will/won't be using mounts, or ask the group what they have and what they want to use. If there's mixed opinions I'd be inclined to go with the hiking rule - you go at the pace of the slowest person in the group. If you're in a group and the commander hasn't said it's going to be done with mounts I don't think there's anything wrong with asking them not to use them, or at least for someone to show you the route you need to take without them. Maybe let them know that you'll have to leave the squad if they keep using the griffon because you can't follow them - if enough people are in the same situation the commander may be forced to choose between not using the griffon or not having a squad to lead.

But ultimately you can't control other people, commanders or otherwise, and as Illconceived Was Na said the fact that someone is a commander doesn't actually say anything about their ability to lead, only that they had 300g and chose to spend it on a tag. So you can't assume any commander will be willing to accommodate you, and if they won't then you can't force them to do it. All you can do is leave the group and find another one or go solo.

I don't think it matters as long as they specified. Just as some specifies if you need any HoT mastery. Not all do but that is one of the things that distinguish a good commander versus a bad one for this specific thing.

HP runs are exist ENTIRELY from one players offer to help others, you are not entitled to it any in way so complaining that they don't cater to your needs is childish in my book.... That being said they should at least put the lfg message as a mounted HP run to keep people from wasting their time.

It's a conflict of commonity versus normality.Most people have mounts, and a lot of people have or are working towards the gryphon at their own pace. Hence its become a normality for commanders to mount up expecting everyone else to do so as well.Butt commonity conflicts here in the sense that not most people have mounts in HoT and the commander needs to be aware of how many people in their squad have mounts.The commander can either wait a minute at the hero point for others to catch up, or he can go on foot like a mountless person.Problem is in this debate there is no right or wrong, just wether the commander is being inclusive or not.If a commander outpaces you you can ask them to slow down. If most commanders refuse to slow down you can start your own mountless squad.All in all, its give and take and try to be as social as possible for both parties.I like how the labyrinth at Halloween quickly developed an etiquette where people wouldn't run ahead with mounts and only used raptors to tighten groups of enemies together

Chrono commander + mounts FTW. Even better with Adrenal Mushrooms.