Griffons Should Benefit from Updrafts — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Griffons Should Benefit from Updrafts

I keep flying my Griffon into updrafts hoping that eventually he'll benefit from them the way my glider wings do. Are there plans on having mounts (especially Griffons) being able to take a ride on an updraft ? It would be one step closer to physical reality imho, but I don't know how difficult it would be to program it into the game.
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  • I'd love this too.... but I get why it will probably never happen. Still, it feels unnatural that we fly through them and nothing happens, especially when we see birds in RL using thermals all the time. To help with my immersion, I avoid them or tell myself that my griffon is too heavy to be lifted by an updraft. Or that they're magical and only affect gliders because gliders are built with magic. I mean, some gliders are plainly magical and even the 'realistic' ones... well, how else would such flimsy contraptions even hold together?

  • I think the use of the Glider and the use of the Griffin are very different - but maybe that is my own play style...
    I use the Glider when I need the precision to drop onto a ledge or if I am not sure where I am going - I personally don't feel like the Griffin gives me that precision. Additionally, when I am gliding, I will constantly drop out of the glider to lose altitude quickly on a certain spot where you either have to nose-dive on the griffin which is hard to manage, or you have to circle around as you descend which is also more difficult. Also, the Glider uses the ley-lines which is super fun and a quick way to travel around those types of maps - and I don't think this should be griffin specific.

    But yeah, if we could at least be able to dismount mid-air to then use the updraft on our gliders, it would certainly suit my play/explore-style.

  • Well, not improving the game just to save an element we are all fond of is really not a valid reason to impede progress. I'm sure train buffs did not want to advance flying because of their romantic attachment to them. OK, maybe not the perfect analogy but I say Griffons should be able to use thermals AND be dismountable in air. Dismounting a griffon in air would almost necessitate the use and conservation of the glider.

  • Kumouta.4985Kumouta.4985 Member ✭✭✭

    have skimmer be affected too then, since spamming spacebar with it is basically gliding but faster.

  • Ayumi Spender.1082Ayumi Spender.1082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Evolute.6239 said:
    This isn't a bug, nor should it be implemented.
    Griffon already almost makes gliding obsolete. Making it completely replace the glider would be silly.

    @Cragga the Eighty Third.6015 said:
    It would be nice, but it would also be a big step toward making gliders completely obsolete.

    It wouldn't. You won't be able to leyline with Griffon.

    I for one would think it would be silly if a Griffon can use Leylines. Updraft though is something birds do use in general.

    @Kumouta.4985 said:
    have skimmer be affected too then, since spamming spacebar with it is basically gliding but faster.

    That would be scary. I would imagine with the Skimmer you would go in the air like 2x higher and 2x faster than a glider/griffon. You seen how quick that thing can get off the ground? It's also always floating too. It must be made of air and magic to be so light.

  • Miellyn.6847Miellyn.6847 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ayumi Spender.1082 said:

    @Evolute.6239 said:
    This isn't a bug, nor should it be implemented.
    Griffon already almost makes gliding obsolete. Making it completely replace the glider would be silly.

    @Cragga the Eighty Third.6015 said:
    It would be nice, but it would also be a big step toward making gliders completely obsolete.

    It wouldn't. You won't be able to leyline with Griffon.

    I for one would think it would be silly if a Griffon can use Leylines. Updraft though is something birds do use in general.

    @Kumouta.4985 said:
    have skimmer be affected too then, since spamming spacebar with it is basically gliding but faster.

    That would be scary. I would imagine with the Skimmer you would go in the air like 2x higher and 2x faster than a glider/griffon. You seen how quick that thing can get off the ground? It's also always floating too. It must be made of air and magic to be so light.

    But griffons are not birds. They are way more massive. Their weight is just too high to use updrafts. Also griffons have their own updraft mechanic, why should they allowed to use the HoT one?

  • Zaraki.5784Zaraki.5784 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cragga the Eighty Third.6015 said:
    It would be nice, but it would also be a big step toward making gliders completely obsolete.

    That's just a small step in killing gliders, the big step was introducing griffons in the first place so, allowing to use updrafts, is just finishing that work.

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  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I've always said there should be a new set of masteries that use HoT and PoF points each that allows for stuff like griffon using updrafts, all mounts using jumping mushrooms, etc.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Either to be able to use updrafts or dismount the griffon mid air the same way we can already mount the griffon mid air.

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  • @Cragga the Eighty Third.6015 said:
    It would be nice, but it would also be a big step toward making gliders completely obsolete.

    PoF killed gliding, not the griffon.

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  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Coulter.2315 said:
    I would personally prefer the "dismount mid air" option (for Griffon only), it would be sad to kill gliders entirely.

    Why the kitten would would you want that restricted to griffons?

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  • Shirlias.8104Shirlias.8104 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Menadena.7482 said:

    @Coulter.2315 said:
    I would personally prefer the "dismount mid air" option (for Griffon only), it would be sad to kill gliders entirely.

    Why the kitten would would you want that restricted to griffons?

    Because if you do it with springer you can be flying everytime.
    I guess that's his reason.

  • TheQuickFox.3826TheQuickFox.3826 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It would be nice to be able to use updrafts with the griffon for everyone who has the updraft mastery enabled.

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  • lokh.2695lokh.2695 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'd tie it to a new mastery that unlocks once you've mastered the griffon and gliding, but would definitely appreciate it. I see as ow it would invalidate the glider, but a tleast you would need them both to do it, which should give you timeto enjoy the glider while it lasts. A dismount in midair optionfor the griffon would be a nice workaround I'd take just as well, using the updrafts while mounted would just feel right and enable more fluent flying ;)

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  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shirlias.8104 said:

    @Menadena.7482 said:

    @Coulter.2315 said:
    I would personally prefer the "dismount mid air" option (for Griffon only), it would be sad to kill gliders entirely.

    Why the kitten would would you want that restricted to griffons?

    Because if you do it with springer you can be flying everytime.
    I guess that's his reason.

    Thanks, so basically a 'I want the best widget and you can not have it' reason?

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  • Tails.9372Tails.9372 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 7, 2017

    @Cragga the Eighty Third.6015 said:
    It would be nice, but it would also be a big step toward making gliders completely obsolete.

    Just make the skill set from Bloodstone Fen the default. /done

    Also:

    @Kumouta.4985 said:
    have skimmer be affected too

    ^ this

  • Phil.7369Phil.7369 Member ✭✭✭

    yes definitely do something like this. Griffons are so unique and expanding on them is a must for Anet!
    Some GW2 videos showcasing the griffon Flight and the terrain-changing view from mounts have become incredibly famous over the last month. This thing gets you a ton of new players who are blown away from the quality of our mount system when they see these videos.
    This is a big chance for your game here take it and make it even cooler.. people love the griffon

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I agree, they should.

    But.. GW2 is not a game were there was a plan from the start.. it's a game where they keep just tacking tings on as they go.

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  • starlinvf.1358starlinvf.1358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Michael Conrad.6704 said:
    Well, not improving the game just to save an element we are all fond of is really not a valid reason to impede progress. I'm sure train buffs did not want to advance flying because of their romantic attachment to them. OK, maybe not the perfect analogy but I say Griffons should be able to use thermals AND be dismountable in air. Dismounting a griffon in air would almost necessitate the use and conservation of the glider.

    Theres a much bigger concern if you think about how the level design has to work in order to accommodate mobility skills like these. They have incentive to compartmentalize the utility of mobility skills for maps not designed around them moving forward; with the limits on the Griffon part of a paradigm created with Tyrian Gliding. Initially Gliding only worked in HOT maps... but players got so accustomed to them, that the suicide rate in Core maps rose 20 fold from people jumping of ledges and trying to activate their Gliders. While not game breaking, it did majorly mess with the player's head space. They conceded to allow Tyrian gliding, and even incorporated it into the Shatterer fight to get additional use out of some other mechanics they developed. When POF was in development, they already understood players would expect gliding to function; thus had to design maps in a way where it couldn't be used to cheese certain objectives. To aid this, Mounts focused on "from ground level" traversal, and designed movement puzzles to focus on that aspect to play to those unique strengths. The Griffon was then added on top of this as Bonus content to serve two functions; Give players without HOT a Gliding alternative, and give HOT players something that compliments gliding that the POF maps don't normally allow for. Outside of Jumping puzzles (which were designed minimize the value of gliding), the Griffon is pretty map breaking due to its ability to position in places even the Springer+Gliding couldn't reach in combination. Many of the MPs and vistas designed to be accessed a particular way, are also difficult (or impossible) to reach directly with the Griffon- though some can still be cheesed by way of indirect navigation.

    This looks to be the way they'll be designing maps moving forward, and taking special care to ensure challenges on a First pass through an expansion won't be completely circumvented by existing mobility options.

  • Tekoneiric.6817Tekoneiric.6817 Member ✭✭✭✭

    While I would be happy with the in air dismount I think if they added gliding support to the griffon it would give them a reason to add updrafts to new maps and hopefully PoF maps.

    I also wish they would move the mount action skills to the weapon skill bar so it could share the same hotkeys as weapons. I have mine setup to share the same key for hotkeys but it would be easier for new PoF players if they just put them on the weapon skill bar. The attack dismount is basically a weapon so it should be on the weapon skills.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I feel that the updrafts aren't strong enough to lift a griffon and rider. Updrafts are just strong enough to lift a person and glider. This is why I wouln't want griffons to be able to use updrafts.

    I wouldn't be adverse to finding updrafts in other, non-HOT areas but I would prefer the devs spend their resources on other content as a priority.

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  • By introducing the flying mount ANET confirmed that sooner or later the gliders will slowly die off.
    The only reason keeping them in the game are the "HoT ONLY" buyers who are not attractive commercially anymore alone.

    The mounts skins are more expensive and generate more income therefore I believe ANET will focus on them in the future and it is just a matter of time to make the updrafts available for griffons, or at least the mid air, mount up, mount down.

  • Electro.4173Electro.4173 Member ✭✭✭

    A hearty Big Mac NOPE to this idea. Updrafts are a gliding mechanic and should remain a gliding mechanic.

    Logic-wise, griffons would be way too heavy to use updrafts, especially with a rider. They must weigh near a thousand pounds at least based on their size, some dinky updraft isn't lifting that much weight like it can for a glider. Now, granted, arguably something that big wouldn't be able to fly at all in the real world, so there's already a big "suspension of disbelief" aspect to it and one could argue that aspect shouldn't enter into the picture at all. But some people seem to be hinging on the "it doesn't make sense that griffons can't use updrafts if gliders can". Not only do the weigh a lot, but they also can't really stay stationary for long enough to benefit from an updraft as a glider does and most of the updrafts are so small that they wouldn't be able to catch them with their full wingspan either.

    Mechanics-wise, its just a bad idea to further impede on gliders with griffons. Griffons are already much faster and can already gain some height any time they want by flapping their wings, two distinct advantages over gliders. Not to mention being able to enter combat with them. Updrafts are one of the gliders' core advantages it still maintains over the Griffon, and its important that those differences are maintained so that one doesn't just completely overtake the other. Also, for the people saying "But Griffons still couldn't use leylines, so gliders still have an advantage!"... c'mon now, do you really think if they gave them updraft use the next step wouldn't be to also beg for leyline riding as well? People spent a lot of effort / money on the griffon, and if they start getting extra stuff added to it they're not going to stop until it can do all the things. Plus, leylines are super limited anyway, so its a pretty lackluster advantage.

    In response to the people thinking that them letting griffons use updrafts would suddenly cause them to start adding updrafts to new maps / PoF maps... doubtful. The griffon is still a secret / prestige mount. They will probably never build much content specifically with the griffon in mind for that reason. Plus, PoF maps have to be built with the assumption that the player doesn't own HoT at all, so if they still tied Griffons using updrafts to the HoT glider mastery (which seems to be the justification people are using to make it "fair") then that's definitely not going to happen.

  • Cerioth.7062Cerioth.7062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    No thanks. Besides, having to figure your way up to places without the usage of updrafts just makes it 100x more interesting. I've climbed to the wyvern patriarch area in VB without the usage of updrafts... was an experience.

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 7, 2017

    "Closer to physical reality."

    Not so sure about that. Physical reality is that something the size of a griffon, with only a griffon's wingspan, isnt going to be able to glide let alone carry an armored man while doing so.

    That said, I am of two minds on this matter. It might add an additional layer of cool factor to the griffon mount, but it would make them that much better than other mounts. I am not sure that adding yet another advantage for having more in game wealth is the best idea. Or perhaps I have that last part wrong and the ability to use updrafts would be another gold sink...perhaps an additional 1000g in "training" fees to unlock the feature.

  • I disagree, Griffons and gliding are two different things. However, I do agree that we should be able to dismount in mid-air.

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  • Biff.5312Biff.5312 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Coulter.2315 said:
    I would personally prefer the "dismount mid air" option (for Griffon only), it would be sad to kill gliders entirely.

    Why for Griffon only? It makes no sense to me that we can't dismount in air, on any mount. Just jump off.

  • sorudo.9054sorudo.9054 Member ✭✭✭✭

    i would rather see some more limits in the griffons, like a faster down glide or a slow down on their glide speed.

  • Ayakaru.6583Ayakaru.6583 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Evolute.6239 said:
    This isn't a bug, nor should it be implemented.
    Griffon already almost makes gliding obsolete. Making it completely replace the glider would be silly.

    Disagree. The gryffon makes a great distance, but is about as agile as Austin Powers trying to turn his car around in a narrow hallway. Plenty of times i prefer gliding when i have to land somewhere specific

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  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Disagree, updrafts should remain the realm of gliders. Have both, but they should serve different roles, especially since there aren't any updrafts in PoF anyway.

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  • Of course they should be able to use updrafts! It would also be nice to be able to dismount midair! Oh, did I mention I also use my glider, and still don't oppose this idea? I must be a very strange, non-conservative fella.

    A BIG yes from me!

  • Because a good game offers us choices: a bunch of useful features with some handicaps versus a different set of features with different handicaps. Griffons are great for long distance air-to-ground traveling; gliding is great in zones specifically designed for them.

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  • Ayumi Spender.1082Ayumi Spender.1082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    @Ayumi Spender.1082 said:

    @Evolute.6239 said:
    This isn't a bug, nor should it be implemented.
    Griffon already almost makes gliding obsolete. Making it completely replace the glider would be silly.

    @Cragga the Eighty Third.6015 said:
    It would be nice, but it would also be a big step toward making gliders completely obsolete.

    It wouldn't. You won't be able to leyline with Griffon.

    I for one would think it would be silly if a Griffon can use Leylines. Updraft though is something birds do use in general.

    @Kumouta.4985 said:
    have skimmer be affected too then, since spamming spacebar with it is basically gliding but faster.

    That would be scary. I would imagine with the Skimmer you would go in the air like 2x higher and 2x faster than a glider/griffon. You seen how quick that thing can get off the ground? It's also always floating too. It must be made of air and magic to be so light.

    But griffons are not birds. They are way more massive. Their weight is just too high to use updrafts. Also griffons have their own updraft mechanic, why should they allowed to use the HoT one?

    That's not even an excuse in this game for Griffons being more massive.
    I can see Asuras and Sylvaris the only ones that can updraft if that's the case.

    Male norns, Charrs, some humans? Can't see updraft working for them at all.

  • Wouldn't it be a bit hard to implement since updraft is a HoT mastery?

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  • YoukiNeko.6047YoukiNeko.6047 Member ✭✭✭

    Griffon should be able to fly.

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  • MokahTGS.7850MokahTGS.7850 Member ✭✭✭

    I think this should only be done/allowed if the player has HoT AND PoF. That way it doesn't kill gliding (ie buying the HoT exp) and allows for a nice QoL feature for players that buy both expansion...which is what ANet should want to encourage.

  • Zedek.8932Zedek.8932 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 7, 2017

    @gaborkaldy.3210 said:
    By introducing the flying mount ANET confirmed that sooner or later the gliders will slowly die off.
    The only reason keeping them in the game are the "HoT ONLY" buyers who are not attractive commercially anymore alone.

    The mounts skins are more expensive and generate more income therefore I believe ANET will focus on them in the future and it is just a matter of time to make the updrafts available for griffons, or at least the mid air, mount up, mount down.

    I don't have a Griffon and probably won't get one. Not sure why aNet should lock me out. That's like banning all combustion engines when the first electro engines were on the streets.

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  • Alga.6498Alga.6498 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I want the 4th mastery of Griffion too regards the updrafts, but then it would kill the gliders off completely.
    I agree with most of you saying that you're able to dismount in air and use your glider on the updrafts and THEN use your Griffion mount again. Now that would be nice. :)

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  • I'd rather they didn't use the updrafts however I would love to be able to dismount in mid air when im on my griffon

  • Updrafts shouldn't affect griffons but we SHOULD be able to dismount in midair.

  • Zaklex.6308Zaklex.6308 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Here's the problem, and the reason we can use gliders on them...they're related to ley energy, not always created because of ley line energy but affected by them...which our gliders are designed to use....the Griffon is not designed to use ley-line energy there for can't use updrafts. That's the simple explanation if you needed one.

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  • Laila Lightness.8742Laila Lightness.8742 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 7, 2017

    Anet wont do anything for griffon as itsa secret mount not expected for everyone too have unlike 3 first mounts

  • Tekoneiric.6817Tekoneiric.6817 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ashen.2907 said:
    "Closer to physical reality."

    Not so sure about that. Physical reality is that something the size of a griffon, with only a griffon's wingspan, isnt going to be able to glide let alone carry an armored man while doing so.

    That said, I am of two minds on this matter. It might add an additional layer of cool factor to the griffon mount, but it would make them that much better than other mounts. I am not sure that adding yet another advantage for having more in game wealth is the best idea. Or perhaps I have that last part wrong and the ability to use updrafts would be another gold sink...perhaps an additional 1000g in "training" fees to unlock the feature.

    Glider aircraft IRL make use of updrafts and they are heavy. Updrafts doesn't have to act the same on the griffon as it does the in game gliders. In game gliders basically stop their forward motion in the updraft. With the griffon it could be more of an uplift while still moving forward so the griffon would move out of the updraft faster than gliders would. To make full use of the updraft the player on the griffon would need to circle around and hit the same updraft over and over.

    Updrafts are a good game mechanic that need to be used for any flying creature. I'd like to see them have other non-player flying creatures to use them.

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tekoneiric.6817 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:
    "Closer to physical reality."

    Not so sure about that. Physical reality is that something the size of a griffon, with only a griffon's wingspan, isnt going to be able to glide let alone carry an armored man while doing so.

    That said, I am of two minds on this matter. It might add an additional layer of cool factor to the griffon mount, but it would make them that much better than other mounts. I am not sure that adding yet another advantage for having more in game wealth is the best idea. Or perhaps I have that last part wrong and the ability to use updrafts would be another gold sink...perhaps an additional 1000g in "training" fees to unlock the feature.

    Glider aircraft IRL make use of updrafts and they are heavy. Updrafts doesn't have to act the same on the griffon as it does the in game gliders. In game gliders basically stop their forward motion in the updraft. With the griffon it could be more of an uplift while still moving forward so the griffon would move out of the updraft faster than gliders would. To make full use of the updraft the player on the griffon would need to circle around and hit the same updraft over and over.

    Updrafts are a good game mechanic that need to be used for any flying creature. I'd like to see them have other non-player flying creatures to use them.

    Yes gliders in real life can glide because of their wingspan to weight ratio. Something not shared by griffons. I only mentioned this element because the OP referenced real world physics. In a fantasy world real world physics MIGHT not be relevant, and probably shouldnt have been used as a justification here. And, for the record, no it is not a, "need," that the mechanic be used for flying creatures in game. A desire yes, a nice though, why not, a need...no.

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