A necro's suggestion for balancing scourge — Guild Wars 2 Forums

A necro's suggestion for balancing scourge

Crinn.7864Crinn.7864 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited November 28, 2017 in PVP

How to balance scourge in a manner that eliminates the excessive amounts of melee hate while retaining viability. These changes also are designed to balance pvp scourge without overly effecting PvE, and without the need for skill splitting. Additionally these changes aim to create more parity between Scourge's grandmaster traits.

  1. Sand Savant only increases the size of shades, Sand Savant will no longer increase the size of effects spawned at the scourge.
  2. Shade auto attacks are only casted by shades and not at the scourge's position.
  3. The healing power contribution to Sand Cascade, Sand Flare, and Desert Empowerment is increased
  4. Shade auto attacks no longer apply cripple.
  5. Punishment skills now only convert boons into torment, instead of torment + cripple.
  6. Demonic Lore now applies Cripple in addition to it's previous effects.
  7. The Shade recharge reduction component of Sand Savant has been moved to Feed from Corruption.
  8. Ghastly Breach no longer applies Slow and it's cast time has been increased to 1.25 seconds.
  9. Trail of Anguish now applies 3 stacks of Stability. Trail of Anguish no longer converts boons.
  10. Sand Swell cast time reduced to 0.5 seconds. Sand Swell no longer converts boons.

The purpose of changes #1 and #2 are to make it so that Scourges now need to utilitize their shades for offense, instead of simply having 300 radius killzone perpetually centered on the scourge's position. This should make scourge less of shutout hard counter to melee classes, while still leaving Shades as a effective area denial tool.
The purpose of change #3 is to make more support focused scourge better so that scourge doesn't have to be a glass cannon all the time.
The purpose of changes #4 and #5 is because having every torment applying skill natively come with it's own cover condi is excessive, and the lack of a rate limit on how fast cripple can be applied results in current gen Scourge being able to apply so much cripple as to be able to maintain 100% uptime even against builds that are running enormous amounts of -cripple duration and impairment removing skills.
The purpose of #6 is to offset the removal of cripple from all other skills by allowing scourge to trait back into cripple access, but since Demonic Lore has a ICD, the cripple access from this trait will not be as overpowering as current gen Scourge's is. This change also makes Demonic Lore more desirable in PvP.
The purpose of changes #7 is to cut down on the dominance of Sand Savant as a trait, moreover the recharge reduction makes much more sense on 3-shade scourge than it does on Savant Scourge given that 3-shade scourge needs that recharge reduction much more.
The purpose of #8 is to tone down how excessively overloaded Ghastly Breach is as a skill, and to make the skill more inline with elites of similar power.
The purpose of #9 and #10 is to give scourge a little better escape capabilities, while cutting down on the superfluous amounts of boonrip available to scourge.

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Comments

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 28, 2017

    I think these changes would go a long way toward solving the scourge problem without being overly punitive (especially in PvE). The cover condis problem is nuts, and when you throw slow into the mix, it's truly awful. Scourges can walk around like a giant demon of death, and these changes would force them to play more defensively or position their shades much more carefully.

    This means they would have to set up a spike, and couldn't just spam everything and run at the opponent.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • Crinn.7864Crinn.7864 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Adding the following changes:

    1. Trail of Anguish now applies 3 stacks of Stability. (up from 1) Trail of Anguish no longer converts boons.
    2. Sand Swell cast time reduced to 0.5 seconds. (down from 1) Sand Swell no longer converts boons.

    The purpose of these changes is to give scourge much better escape options, while at the same time cutting down on the superfluous amount of boon hate.

    Sanity is for the weak minded
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  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 28, 2017

    The sad thing is that it's not hard to recognize where the frustration comes from. The agony alone is rarely lethal against decent players. It's all the other stuff that gets piled on with it and the fact that you cannot sit still against a scourge (with agony, which does double damage if you move). Crippled + agony is punishment (see what I did there?), and the cover condis make it even harder to deal with.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • xDudisx.5914xDudisx.5914 Member ✭✭✭

    Anet quick, put this guy on balance team

  • Cynz.9437Cynz.9437 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 28, 2017

    @xDudisx.5914 said:
    Anet quick, put this guy on balance team

    If they did, thief would be deleted from game. No, ty.

    Do appreciate his feedback on scourge and attempt to fix it so +1.

    GW is P2Win. We are always lied to.

  • If we only had some test servers to mess around with devs and these suggestions.

    Anyway, nice work, on paper it looks good.

  • Loop.8106Loop.8106 Member ✭✭✭
     11. Give Scourge F-skills a .5 global cooldown with eachother, making you unable to piano them. 
    

    Slam Jammed self proclaimed strongest core guardian on this side of the atlantic.

  • Morwath.9817Morwath.9817 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Crinn.7864 said:
    How to balance scourge in a manner that eliminates the excessive amounts of melee hate while retaining viability. These changes also are designed to balance pvp scourge without overly effecting PvE, and without the need for skill splitting. Additionally these changes aim to create more parity between Scourge's grandmaster traits.

    1. Sand Savant only increases the size of shades, Sand Savant will no longer increase the size of effects spawned at the scourge.
    2. Shade auto attacks are only casted by shades and not at the scourge's position.
    3. The healing power contribution to Sand Cascade, Sand Flare, and Desert Empowerment is increased
    4. Shade auto attacks no longer apply cripple.
    5. Punishment skills now only convert boons into torment, instead of torment + cripple.
    6. Demonic Lore now applies Cripple in addition to it's previous effects.
    7. The Shade recharge reduction component of Sand Savant has been moved to Feed from Corruption.
    8. Ghastly Breach no longer applies Slow and it's cast time has been increased to 1.25 seconds.
    9. Trail of Anguish now applies 3 stacks of Stability. Trail of Anguish no longer converts boons.
    10. Sand Swell cast time reduced to 0.5 seconds. Sand Swell no longer converts boons.

    The purpose of changes #1 and #2 are to make it so that Scourges now need to utilitize their shades for offense, instead of simply having 300 radius killzone perpetually centered on the scourge's position. This should make scourge less of shutout hard counter to melee classes, while still leaving Shades as a effective area denial tool.
    The purpose of change #3 is to make more support focused scourge better so that scourge doesn't have to be a glass cannon all the time.
    The purpose of changes #4 and #5 is because having every torment applying skill natively come with it's own cover condi is excessive, and the lack of a rate limit on how fast cripple can be applied results in current gen Scourge being able to apply so much cripple as to be able to maintain 100% uptime even against builds that are running enormous amounts of -cripple duration and impairment removing skills.
    The purpose of #6 is to offset the removal of cripple from all other skills by allowing scourge to trait back into cripple access, but since Demonic Lore has a ICD, the cripple access from this trait will not be as overpowering as current gen Scourge's is. This change also makes Demonic Lore more desirable in PvP.
    The purpose of changes #7 is to cut down on the dominance of Sand Savant as a trait, moreover the recharge reduction makes much more sense on 3-shade scourge than it does on Savant Scourge given that 3-shade scourge needs that recharge reduction much more.
    The purpose of #8 is to tone down how excessively overloaded Ghastly Breach is as a skill, and to make the skill more inline with elites of similar power.
    The purpose of #9 and #10 is to give scourge a little better escape capabilities, while cutting down on the superfluous amounts of boonrip available to scourge.

    Quaggan approves, but Foooooooo, Quaggan can't see anywhere buffs to support traitline.

  • Egorum.9506Egorum.9506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    This would gut scourge, with nothing given back. If you haven't learned how to do it yet, range a scourge or chain CC them and collect your free points

  • OriOri.8724OriOri.8724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Overall seems like a pretty well thought out list of changes.

    Eyyyy I unlocked signatures

  • @OriOri.8724 said:
    Overall seems like a pretty well thought out list of changes.

    So it'll never happen is what you're saying

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    On a design level as long as boon corruption is scourge main theme in sPvP it will remain over powered. Reducing the rate of boon corruption is not going to solve much. Not to mention that this is nothing more than power creep to what reaper used to do anyway.

    Scourge in sPvP should focus on barrier/condi dps without boon corruption and possibly offensive support.

  • Crinn.7864Crinn.7864 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @otto.5684 said:
    On a design level as long as boon corruption is scourge main theme in sPvP it will remain over powered. Reducing the rate of boon corruption is not going to solve much. Not to mention that this is nothing more than power creep to what reaper used to do anyway.

    Scourge in sPvP should focus on barrier/condi dps without boon corruption and possibly offensive support.

    The purpose of these changes was not to remove scourge from it's role, or to push scourge out of the meta.

    The purpose of these changes are to make Scourge less of a total melee shutout and to push it more towards a strategic role rather than a carpet bomb role.

    Sanity is for the weak minded
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  • Awe.1096Awe.1096 Member ✭✭

    I still can't wrap my head around how and why scourge is OP. I mean, in the low level of play it surely is. But at higher ranks? Scourge is so fragile and when you play vs team with even a half of brain cell, you are guaranteed to get trained 24/7. Since PoF I alternate playing between holosmith, scourge and mesmer and doing stuff with scourge is hardest by far. Even if I stay way behind, enemy team just runs past my teammates ignoring them and chase me like there is no tomorrow. Yeah, as a scourge I can do a lot of bad things but only when I can actually do something instead of trying to shake of a thief, a warrior and a druid training me 24/7. It gets easier when there is another scourge in my team but otherwise I feel I can contribute more with my holosmith where I am not relegated to be a target practice with laughable defensive skills.

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 29, 2017

    @Awe.1096 said:
    I still can't wrap my head around how and why scourge is OP. I mean, in the low level of play it surely is. But at higher ranks? Scourge is so fragile and when you play vs team with even a half of brain cell, you are guaranteed to get trained 24/7. Since PoF I alternate playing between holosmith, scourge and mesmer and doing stuff with scourge is hardest by far. Even if I stay way behind, enemy team just runs past my teammates ignoring them and chase me like there is no tomorrow. Yeah, as a scourge I can do a lot of bad things but only when I can actually do something instead of trying to shake of a thief, a warrior and a druid training me 24/7. It gets easier when there is another scourge in my team but otherwise I feel I can contribute more with my holosmith where I am not relegated to be a target practice with laughable defensive skills.

    If you play it right, you can become a fountain of death to people who are both chasing you and not chasing you. With proper team support, it is possible to endure many of these fights and wreak havoc on your attackers. The only time a scourge is truly "weak" is when its life force is low, which is generally easy to resolve as you play. When I play scourge, even when I get focused at the beginning, I'm only truly vulnerable if I get stunlocked, which is something very people can recover from anyway.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • intox.6347intox.6347 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 29, 2017

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @otto.5684 said:
    On a design level as long as boon corruption is scourge main theme in sPvP it will remain over powered. Reducing the rate of boon corruption is not going to solve much. Not to mention that this is nothing more than power creep to what reaper used to do anyway.

    Scourge in sPvP should focus on barrier/condi dps without boon corruption and possibly offensive support.

    The purpose of these changes was not to remove scourge from it's role, or to push scourge out of the meta.

    The purpose of these changes are to make Scourge less of a total melee shutout and to push it more towards a strategic role rather than a carpet bomb role.

    I just see balance from pvp where scourge is op, destroying pve, wvw options. Also i can call your balance only nerf, coz i dont see anything for exchange. You saw that anet cant do proper split... and each touch on necro is only more painfull.... look what they do to reaper ... its now only memory...

    Multiclass WvW player
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  • Rym.1469Rym.1469 Member ✭✭✭

    Pretty good suggestions overall. Only small gripe is removing corruptions from some Punishment skills, the thing that was supposed to sort of differentiate it as a new utility type, but it's not like it was super interesting or original in the first place.

    I'd add that with Scourge no longer classified as a shade, small radius increase could be moved into baseline (180->200/220 instead of max 300 with sand savant) and Sand Savant removed as a whole. It's just clogging up grandmaster spot for support trait at that point.

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  • Hitman.5829Hitman.5829 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 1, 2017

    To be honest the mesmers need to be nerfed more than the necros. As a melee warrior I find it easier to fight these condition spamming scourges than the perma evade, perma stun break mesmers. As a melee warrior you can't stun them to land your damage and you can hit them because they perma dodge/evade. In my opinion, scourges are fine the way thy are, but in groups is when they are OP. One way to nerf them is to reduce the number of targets they can hit from 5 to 3 or 2.

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  • Majirah.5089Majirah.5089 Member ✭✭✭

    @Hitman.5829 said:
    To be honest the mesmers need to be nerfed more than the necros. As a melee warrior I find it easier to fight these condition spamming scourges than the perma evade, perma stun break mesmers. As a melee warrior you can't stun them to land your damage and you can hit them because they perma dodge/evade. In my opinion, scourges are fine the way thy are, but in groups is when they are OP. One way to nerf them is to reduce the number of targets they can hit from 5 to 3 or 2.

    Warriors also have pretty good counter to condi damage so that might make them seem less unbearable.

    In a 1v1 setting though I agree that I’d rather fight a scourge than a mirage. But in a team fight setting I think scourge is much worse to deal with. Just my opinion though.

  • OriOri.8724OriOri.8724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hitman.5829 said:
    To be honest the mesmers need to be nerfed more than the necros. As a melee warrior I find it easier to fight these condition spamming scourges than the perma evade, perma stun break mesmers. As a melee warrior you can't stun them to land your damage and you can hit them because they perma dodge/evade. In my opinion, scourges are fine the way thy are, but in groups is when they are OP. One way to nerf them is to reduce the number of targets they can hit from 5 to 3 or 2.

    I'm sure that metric fucktons of resistance and FC being able to send scourge's condis right back to him don't have any factor at all in why warriors don't have a hard time with them.

    Eyyyy I unlocked signatures

  • Furious.2867Furious.2867 Member ✭✭✭

    @Hitman.5829 said:
    To be honest the mesmers need to be nerfed more than the necros. As a melee warrior I find it easier to fight these condition spamming scourges than the perma evade, perma stun break mesmers. As a melee warrior you can't stun them to land your damage and you can hit them because they perma dodge/evade.

    Your suggestions sounds rather self-serving.

  • Jackalrat.5493Jackalrat.5493 Member ✭✭✭

    Granted, if any class is and will forever remain Scourge's b-word, it's Power Reaper. So as a PR, I am selfishly desperate to see them get nerfed. I am watching myself cheat my team out of this amazing spec, and I'm watching really clearly mechanically unskilled players present the hardest fights for me simply because of their incredible power creep on that boon-hating build.

    I don't know how balanced these changes are, because they're something I'd have to see in action, but the reduction of boon hate seems quit appropriate. It's just too much atm. My biggest concern is that Scourges are so far above and beyond what could be called balanced atm that a pretty heavy hand is needed for whatever nerfs they finally get.

  • Master Ketsu.4569Master Ketsu.4569 Member ✭✭✭✭

    These aren't good changes because they do not address the #1 problem with scourge which is that the instant cast times combined with no animations results in it requiring absolutely zero skill to play. The same issues also result in it being no fun to play against because you are getting hit by skills that cannot be reacted to.

    Scourge needs almost none of the nerfs you suggested. The only nerf it needs is:

    1. Added a 1/2-second delay and animation effect to Sand shades before they strike
    2. Added a 1-second cast time and animation to the Scourges F1 abilities

    That's it. That's all the class needs. They could even add some power damage to the shades to compensate.

    You can try to "balance" scourge all you want by tweaking the numbers, but until the spammy nature of the build is addressed scourge will continue to be seen as a textbook example of noob-pandering.

  • Crinn.7864Crinn.7864 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2017

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    These aren't good changes because they do not address the #1 problem with scourge which is that the instant cast times combined with no animations results in it requiring absolutely zero skill to play. The same issues also result in it being no fun to play against because you are getting hit by skills that cannot be reacted to.

    Scourge needs almost none of the nerfs you suggested. The only nerf it needs is:

    1. Added a 1/2-second delay and animation effect to Sand shades before they strike
    2. Added a 1-second cast time and animation to the Scourges F1 abilities

    That's it. That's all the class needs. They could even add some power damage to the shades to compensate.

    You can try to "balance" scourge all you want by tweaking the numbers, but until the spammy nature of the build is addressed scourge will continue to be seen as a textbook example of noob-pandering.

    Scourge would still completely define the meta under your changes. While the lack of tells is certainly annoying, it's not what is making Scourge S tier, and it's not what is causing scourge to shutout hardcounter 3/4ths of the melee classes in the game. However putting a large animation delay would cause a lot of quality of life issues for the scourge itself without really affecting scourge's power level.

    @intox.6347 said:

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @otto.5684 said:
    On a design level as long as boon corruption is scourge main theme in sPvP it will remain over powered. Reducing the rate of boon corruption is not going to solve much. Not to mention that this is nothing more than power creep to what reaper used to do anyway.

    Scourge in sPvP should focus on barrier/condi dps without boon corruption and possibly offensive support.

    The purpose of these changes was not to remove scourge from it's role, or to push scourge out of the meta.

    The purpose of these changes are to make Scourge less of a total melee shutout and to push it more towards a strategic role rather than a carpet bomb role.

    I just see balance from pvp where scourge is op, destroying pve, wvw options. Also i can call your balance only nerf, coz i dont see anything for exchange. You saw that anet cant do proper split... and each touch on necro is only more painfull.... look what they do to reaper ... its now only memory...

    Of course my changes are primarily a nerf. Scourge's raw power level is way too high and is breaking both the sPvP meta and the WvW meta. Evven in PvE where scourge isn't meta, scourge still manages to completely outperform reaper. Scourge does not need a "exchange" it needs to be cut down.

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  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2017

    @Hitman.5829 said:
    To be honest the mesmers need to be nerfed more than the necros. As a melee warrior I find it easier to fight these condition spamming scourges than the perma evade, perma stun break mesmers. As a melee warrior you can't stun them to land your damage and you can hit them because they perma dodge/evade. In my opinion, scourges are fine the way thy are, but in groups is when they are OP. One way to nerf them is to reduce the number of targets they can hit from 5 to 3 or 2.

    Well-played mesmers have pretty much always been difficult opponents for warriors, just like well-played thieves have always been difficult matchups for mesmers. Every build is going to have matchups that it's going to struggle against. Mirages in the current meta are certainly no slouches, but neither are they meta-defining in the way scourges are.

    The problem with scourges is that they hard-counter a wide range of otherwise viable builds, and they're able to perform their hard-counter against everyone in a teamfight rather than having to pick one target at a time. This has essentially been turning the meta into one where you're either a scourge, a build that can deal with scourges, or a burden to your team (unless you're lucky enough to get an opposing team without scourges). Spellbreaker builds are among those that can cope with scourges, so I can see why a warrior-only player would see them as not being a problem, but in the bigger picture scourges are having a much greater impact than mirages (or anything else I've seen since PoF launched).

  • It seem to be good options to make scourge skill cap increase and like you mentioned it give a chance for mele classes vs scourge.

    Another option would be to use a CURSED effect , where only cursed foes get affected by Sand shroud skills.
    For exemple, Necro CURSE a foe by casting a punishment skill or sand shade F1 on the target.

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Cast times and increased cooldowns, tie the F skills to life force build up...don't allow 60k damage per (some very small time interval) to be so spammable.

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

  • Swagg.9236Swagg.9236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Suffice to say, you're doing nothing but trying to save face considering that Scourge's problem is that none of its trademark, ranged AoE attacks have any tells and all cast instantly.

  • Crinn.7864Crinn.7864 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    The problem with scourges is that they hard-counter a wide range of otherwise viable builds, and they're able to perform their hard-counter against everyone in a teamfight rather than having to pick one target at a time. This has essentially been turning the meta into one where you're either a scourge, a build that can deal with scourges, or a burden to your team (unless you're lucky enough to get an opposing team without scourges). Spellbreaker builds are among those that can cope with scourges, so I can see why a warrior-only player would see them as not being a problem, but in the bigger picture scourges are having a much greater impact than mirages (or anything else I've seen since PoF launched).

    This

    Sanity is for the weak minded
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  • FOX.3582FOX.3582 Member ✭✭✭

    Or people can just wait off-point to let the scourge waste cooldowns, kill it fast and cap the point back. I don’t see a problem with scourge except for total donkeys who like to hug red aoe circles... (I don’t play that kitten class btw).

  • Volrath.1473Volrath.1473 Member ✭✭✭

    Is it just me or the suggestions to "fix" scourge look more like buffs then nerfs?!....

    @Elrond.9486 said:
    The saddest part of it all is that from a mechanical, action point of view, GW2 has the best PvP combat in any of the big MMOs. And they completely waste it with the trash balance and by basically ignoring it for months and months.

  • nekretaal.6485nekretaal.6485 Member ✭✭✭

    They are adding animations to the skills. You'll be able to know when the bubble is / is not safe. Balancing numbers is not necessary.

  • Chaith.8256Chaith.8256 Member ✭✭✭✭

    In addition to the OP:

    Instead of proposed Sand Savant nerf,

    • Shade skills' effects to allies are applied on a larger radius. (All enemy effects, including the Sand Shade remain on an 180radius.) Additionally, Desert Shroud instead of applying Torment will apply healing and barriers (still damages).

    The barriers could proc Abrasive Grit (Might, condi remove) and the healing amount should be competitive.

    More additional changes:

    • Sand Shades no longer have constant red AoE circles.
    • Added visual cue "spraying of sand" to Shade's auto attacks.
    • Added .5s global CD to Shade skills to avoid piano playing.
    • Added .5s delay on Shade auto attacks, spawns the red circle before striking.

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  • breno.5423breno.5423 Member ✭✭✭

    Just remove boon conversion of all traits and utilitys, this is stupid. You receive 10+ types of condition in a second, no one can clean this many of conds so quickly, that means you will always stay with any damaging condition in the end (which deals 15k + of damage itself).

    Beside it, condition durations must be reviewed. 10+ seconds of any condition is a ridiculous duration, principally because there are 13 kinds of condition in the game. Most moments i get like 20~30 seconds of cripple, weakness, etc. Weakness is the most problematic thing in the spvp. It nerfs like 80% of zerkers damage, and anyone apply 10+ seconds of weakness easily. Weakness should, at least, affect condition damage too, or just receive a duration redution for a maximum of 3 seconds (which is too many time in spvp). None debilitation/debuff conditions should be longer than 3 seconds of duration at spvp.

  • brannigan.9831brannigan.9831 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2017

    They have to fix the constant weakness on people as well. Its garbage quite frankly. Weakness is a very powerful condition and was pretty rare before this unbalanced elite was foisted on us.

  • Rufo.3716Rufo.3716 Member ✭✭✭

    I think if they nerf CC as a whole it would help most of the problems. It's the whole getting immobilized or stunned then getting bombed by the necros that hurt. If you can move away from the aoe effects it's not as bad. They should also try to turn the scourge into what it was originally intended to do, be support. Right now the closest thing the scourge has for support is blood magic trait line. If they nerf the dmg they need to majorly buff the support abilities to make them useful in pvp and pve.

  • Crinn.7864Crinn.7864 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    In addition to the OP:

    Instead of proposed Sand Savant nerf,

    • Shade skills' effects to allies are applied on a larger radius. (All enemy effects, including the Sand Shade remain on an 180radius.) Additionally, Desert Shroud instead of applying Torment will apply healing and barriers (still damages).

    The barriers could proc Abrasive Grit (Might, condi remove) and the healing amount should be competitive.

    More additional changes:

    • Sand Shades no longer have constant red AoE circles.
    • Added visual cue "spraying of sand" to Shade's auto attacks.
    • Added .5s global CD to Shade skills to avoid piano playing.
    • Added .5s delay on Shade auto attacks, spawns the red circle before striking.

    Having the offensive and support components of the same skill operating at different ranges creates a lot of awkward gameplay/quality of life issues for the Scourge though.

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  • @Chaith.8256 said:
    In addition to the OP:

    Instead of proposed Sand Savant nerf,

    • Shade skills' effects to allies are applied on a larger radius. (All enemy effects, including the Sand Shade remain on an 180radius.) Additionally, Desert Shroud instead of applying Torment will apply healing and barriers (still damages).

    Do they currently have a system like that in game where a skill affects allies and enemies in different ranges? I can't recall one, so curious.

    • Added .5s global CD to Shade skills to avoid piano playing.

    Don't think this will be a thing since nothing in GW2 has a global CD as far as I know. Once again, correct me if I am wrong.

    Implementing new systems might be too much to ask from balance team seeing how much "balance" they have put in the game after path of fire release. Reducing the scourge radius (not the shade radius) in Sand Savant trait will instantly alleviate a lot of these problems.

    • Added .5s delay on Shade auto attacks, spawns the red circle before striking.

    Absolutely agree with adding a small after cast delay for the shade strike (and by extention path of corruption trigger on F2 since it should corrupt boons for targets the shade attack hits) and no delay on the main effects aka condi conversion and barrier application.

  • Chaith.8256Chaith.8256 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Rudra.6932 said:

    @Chaith.8256 said:

    Do they currently have a system like that in game where a skill affects allies and enemies in different ranges? I can't recall one, so curious.

    • Added .5s global CD to Shade skills to avoid piano playing.

    Don't think this will be a thing since nothing in GW2 has a global CD as far as I know. Once again, correct me if I am wrong.

    Implementing new systems might be too much to ask from balance team seeing how much "balance" they have put in the game after path of fire release. Reducing the scourge radius (not the shade radius) in Sand Savant trait will instantly alleviate a lot of these problems.

    • Added .5s delay on Shade auto attacks, spawns the red circle before striking.

    Absolutely agree with adding a small after cast delay for the shade strike (and by extention path of corruption trigger on F2 since it should corrupt boons for targets the shade attack hits) and no delay on the main effects aka condi conversion and barrier application.

    Weaver attunements have a global cooldown, but as far as I know no skill has dual radius effects. It'd probably not be too hard for it to simultaneously fire one 180radius attack and one 300 radius effect for your allies though. It'd be cool to see two rings at once, kind of like a bullseye'. But that's just my concept

    twitch.tv/chaithh
    Forum Lord Chaith

  • @Chaith.8256 said:

    @Rudra.6932 said:

    @Chaith.8256 said:

    Do they currently have a system like that in game where a skill affects allies and enemies in different ranges? I can't recall one, so curious.

    • Added .5s global CD to Shade skills to avoid piano playing.

    Don't think this will be a thing since nothing in GW2 has a global CD as far as I know. Once again, correct me if I am wrong.

    Implementing new systems might be too much to ask from balance team seeing how much "balance" they have put in the game after path of fire release. Reducing the scourge radius (not the shade radius) in Sand Savant trait will instantly alleviate a lot of these problems.

    • Added .5s delay on Shade auto attacks, spawns the red circle before striking.

    Absolutely agree with adding a small after cast delay for the shade strike (and by extention path of corruption trigger on F2 since it should corrupt boons for targets the shade attack hits) and no delay on the main effects aka condi conversion and barrier application.

    Weaver attunements have a global cooldown, but as far as I know no skill has dual radius effects. It'd probably not be too hard for it to simultaneously fire one 180radius attack and one 300 radius effect for your allies though. It'd be cool to see two rings at once, kind of like a bullseye'. But that's just my concept

    Well, Weaver attunement swap is like weapon swap with some additional effect similar to Legend swap for revenants that allows both the classes to get access to a new set of skills. I don't think it is fair to compare the shade skills with that. A closer comparison can be done with Engi tool belt skills which can be activated one after the other.
    I don't think adding a global cooldown will be good for the health of scourge class as it will make it unintuitively cumbersome to play. The after cast and reduced radius of impact is a much better idea for the balance team to pick up as it doesn't encroach upon scourge flavour while providing a significant boost to counter play.

  • Velimere.7685Velimere.7685 Member ✭✭✭

    @Flauvious.6195 said:
    You put more effort into these proposed changes then anet ever puts into balance unfortunately

    Yeah. I don't ever see them implementing such sweeping changes to say the least.

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