LS4 Spoilers Loyalist Dervish and Paragons

First of all, yes I know the PoF feedback thread is long gone but I just want to write this and discuss more about this matter.

I am glad we got to know what happened to the Sunspears, some are still alive, but none of them equipped Spears! (Or Scythe)If you have met some of the Elite spec Mentors around the Crystal Desert, one specific trainer, Tamela Okar who is still a Sunspear no longer equip spear as her weapon and some of them continued to train without our spears.

The question is, why ditch the spears? You're still a Sunspear, as the classic Sunspear guard was a Paragon, aka Spear+shield.And how many Sunspears did we see with actually spears equipped? None.How many did we see with Scythe? None.

About Dervish, what happened to them anyway? I haven't found a single thing about them or what happened to them. Many of the Sunspears were mostly Paragons, Warriors, Monks and Rangers. Did all the Dervishes vanquished just like that?

I can understand why ANet decided not to add Dervish as an Elite Spec, because it's too human based on their human lore-profession, but Paragon? Though I am sure they could've easily made something similar to the GW1 Dervish into GW2 as all the races were able to use it.

Why the kitten were no Paragon OR Dervish introduced in PoF?I was so incredible disappointed ANet decided not to introduce atleast Paragon for one of the Warrior or Guardian's Elite spec and with the weapon we have been requested and waited for years, the (land)spear.This was just a middle finger to us from ANet as we finally are in Elona.

I would bet that it has something to do with how the community completely conflates statements with 'promises' and that any speculation is 100% truth no matter the ramifications, context, or intention. Just a hunch though.

If spears were meant for underwater combat in GW2, then, even upon release of an expansion dealing entirely with an area of Tyria that made them as 'rose tinted as they are today, I'd stay as far away from them as I could as well.

I do think doing away with them wholesale as skins etc is a huge blunder if you want new players to take a part (existing since release) of your game seriously though. Pretending they/it don't exist is paradoxical considering we all know of Steve and the existence of underwater combat...

Dervishes were heavily linked to the Gods. All their magic came from the Gods and if the Gods have withdrawn & Joko exterminated anyone worshipping them I could see how they died out.

@Coulter.2315 said:Dervishes were heavily linked to the Gods. All their magic came from the Gods and if the Gods have withdrawn & Joko exterminated anyone worshipping them I could see how they died out.

Yeah, Tamela Okar even says : ''When Joko finally defeated the Sunspears over a hundred years ago, he decreed that anyone owning a spear would be put to death'' , so Paragons kinda died too because of this.

Guardians are basically paragons (plus a bit of monk), and dervishes' entire... thing doesn't work in GW2 (they're too human-focused, enchantments don't exist, and all melee weapons cleave now).

"When Joko finally defeated the Sunspears over a hundred years ago, he decreed that anyone owning a spear would be put to death... Destroying us wasn't enough for Joko. He wanted to destroy our symbol too. Our survivors were forced underground. Some of us continued to train without our spears... When our spears were broken, many of us reforged the spearheads into daggers. It helps keep our symbol alive, even if we can't display it openly anymore." -Tamela Okar

The sunspears went on to become the first Spellbreakers as a means of countering the Awakened.

"...We've learned to counter their magic, detect their hidden agents, and prevent their escape. It's quite effective...A spellbreaker can strike at the weave of magic using any weapon, but the precision of daggers makes it easier..." -Tamela Okar

The lore explanation is that Joko was murdering anyone using a spear, so the Sunspears had to break their weapons and keep only the blade, which they used as daggers - hence the Spellbreakers. No lore explanation was given about the disappearance of the dervishes (as far as I know, at least).

However, the lore explanation doesn't really matter much, considering how more often than not the lore is adapted to fit the mechanics, not the other way around. We don't know exactly why ArenaNet didn't add the paragon and the dervishes, but my guesses would be:

• ArenaNet probably thinks there isn't much of a room for new professions in GW2
• Paragons and dervishes without their signature weapons wouldn't really work (the community would likely erupt in flames), and adding new weapons to the game requires an effort ArenaNet has been unwilling to spend so far
• Likewise, paragons and dervishes without their signature mechanics likely wouldn't be very well accepted, but GW2 is very different from the original Guild Wars regarding that kind of thing. We have few skills with unique effects; most do damage, grant boons and/or apply conditions. We don't really have things like chants, refrains, enchantments, forms and things with unique effects like that.
• ArenaNet could try to encapsulate all those things in a specialization, but it's very unlikely that they would be able to implement those concepts properly using just an existing weapon and a half dozen new skills.

Dervishes were my favourite profession in the original Guild Wars, but I doubt very much we will ever see something like them in GW2. Both games are too different from each other for a proper conversion keeping everything that made the dervishes unique.

I recommend you play the PoF story and your question will be answered :)

OH MY GOD!!!!! :scream:DERVISH AND PARAGONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG OMG OMG :joy:ANet, pleeeeease let us atleast purchase Dervish and Paragon NPC kit along with their weapons!You have a fully profession ability set, I would give anything to play as Dervish and Paragon again , ANET pleeease, :disappointed:

The concept of the Dervish is now put into the Revenant. Just like the Dervish calls the power of the human gods, the Revenant calls the power of legendary entities. The real question is, why the Revenant didn't start with a Scythe?

@Erasculio.2914 said:

• ArenaNet probably thinks there isn't much of a room for new professions in GW2
• Paragons and dervishes without their signature weapons wouldn't really work (the community would likely erupt in flames), and adding new weapons to the game requires an effort ArenaNet has been unwilling to spend so far
• ArenaNet could try to encapsulate all those things in a specialization, but it's very unlikely that they would be able to implement those concepts properly using just an existing weapon and a half dozen new skills.

I agree with you here. But just as professions have changed in the last 250 years, why couldn't the Paragon's and Dervishes? I think both could have been easily incorporated as specializations. As Sir Vincent III said below (sort of) the RENEGADE calls on the powers of legendary entities instead of the gods. This easily could have been incorporated into lore as what the Dervishes turned into and called the specialization Dervish instead of Renegade.

Likewise the Spellbreaker could have been named Paragon instead considering that is what the Sunspears turned into.

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:The concept of the Dervish is now put into the Revenant. Just like the Dervish calls the power of the human gods, the Revenant calls the power of legendary entities. The real question is, why the Revenant didn't start with a Scythe?

Good call, except I think you meant Renegade instead of Revenant.

@jheryn.8390 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:The concept of the Dervish is now put into the Revenant. Just like the Dervish calls the power of the human gods, the Revenant calls the power of legendary entities. The real question is, why the Revenant didn't start with a Scythe?

Nope, Revenant. In GW1, you can use the skills of the gods. Revenant has the same concept, instead uses the skills of the legendary figures (e.g. Shiro instead of Balthazar, Ventari instead of Dwayna, Mallyx instead of Grenth, etc).

Nooo, nooooo, nooooooo!!!!!