ANET please raise classes defensive stats

When GW2 came out most classes had 10k-13k dps range and spvp and wvw were lot better, i mean more balanced classes and more enjoyable for the playerbase.Then came HOT with elite mobs and hard champion and bosses. ANET stepped in and gave us a dps boost. All classes reached 20-23k dps range. But vitality was not boosted, toughness was not boosted, condition resist was not introduced. That by itself alreasy broke the balance on spvp and wvw game mode. But that wasnt last boost.POF came, and some classes are reaching 33k+ dps range. That would be ok if the classes got some defensive boosts, but we didnt. We are still at same vitality, toughness and cond resist range from gw2 game launch.That is the main issue with these 2 game modes. You gave us "power" to fight the new monsters but you didnt give us defence power to survive each other.Due to that wvw and spvp became a lot less friendly for new players. In wvw if you make a brief mistake during a zerg fight, you are dead in 0.5 seconds. So many bursts and soooooo many condition that it is just impossible to recover. That leads to less new players joining, and that leads to more veterans crying about game being dead.All that needs to be done to save this is give players at least some sort of defensive boost just to catch up with all the ofensive boosts that were implemented.I think moost issues related to both game modes would be dealt with when you realize that we just lost a lot of survivability due to the dps boost classes got from each expansion.Thanks.

Lower the dps instead.Problem solved.

Stop giving classes immunities and defenses.

@Shirlias.8104 said:Lower the dps instead.Problem solved.

Stop giving classes immunities and defenses.

^^this. We don't need more powercreep, we need less of it.

Lower dps would be good to. But looking at anets side, it is harsh to remove a benefit you already gave ppl. Would look like they considered it a mistake. We may consider it a mistake, but it is hard for a company to come out and announce they did a mistake and therefore they will revert it.Part of the community could start saying they bought the xpack because of those boosts and then a bigger issue would rise up.That is why i think it is easier to just boost defensive stats.

NOTE: i NEVER said to give us immunities. We dont need that. All we need is some sort of defensive stat increase. Vitality, toughness, cond resist and those woyld be more then enough

You want to fix damage scaling on skills with more stats for the character.

It's never a good idea to fix 1 mechanic via another.

The only real issue for this is spvp. In wvw you should never be able to survive if you are getting focused by mutiple players via stats only. There is enough durable builds for wvw but they rely on active mitigation and proper skill use. No amount of stats is or shoild change that.

The damage in WvW is so unbalanced that if you attack a group of Zerg you can kill yourself with all the reflected damage they have. It is not even necessary to attack you, you just killed yourself :s :s (without also mentioning the conditions that put you to attack them)

Not change, but you cant just triple the ofensive power of all classes and not even change defensive aspect of same classes on a pvp/ mass pvp scenario and expect that this will not affect the balance

@BassHunteR.7246 said:But looking at anets side, it is harsh to remove a benefit you already gave ppl. Would look like they considered it a mistake.

It isn't a benefit if it causes issues for the game as a whole. Everything is subject to change in PvP if balancing calls for it.

The problem is that there is quite a large gap between updates. Instead of having smaller but more frequent balancing updates, we get these HUGE monthly updates that heaps new information on us and we are left seeing where the dice falls.

Note, I don't actively play pvp in Gw2 but that is my perception of it.

I really do not want to see bunker meta again.

@Dashiva.6149 said:blergh> @BassHunteR.7246 said:

But looking at anets side, it is harsh to remove a benefit you already gave ppl. Would look like they considered it a mistake.

The thing is:As i see anet does not have 3 balance teams: 01 for pve, 01 for spvp, 01 for wvw.We have 01 balance team focused on pve.Therefore my suggestion is considering that wont change and we will continue with 01 balnce team focused on pve.If we had 3 different setups for classes depending on game mode then we could work on boosting just that specific game mode. But since that ia not the scenario, i am suggesting something to help the game without major changes to the way anet works

You know that a system sucks when one class gets more HP and more Armor then any other class WITHOUT reducing Power or crit damage at the same time...

@BassHunteR.7246 said:When GW2 came out most classes had 10k-13k dps range and spvp and wvw were lot better, i mean more balanced classes and more enjoyable for the playerbase.Then came HOT with elite mobs and hard champion and bosses. ANET stepped in and gave us a dps boost. All classes reached 20-23k dps range. But vitality was not boosted, toughness was not boosted, condition resist was not introduced. That by itself alreasy broke the balance on spvp and wvw game mode. But that wasnt last boost.POF came, and some classes are reaching 33k+ dps range. That would be ok if the classes got some defensive boosts, but we didnt. We are still at same vitality, toughness and cond resist range from gw2 game launch.That is the main issue with these 2 game modes. You gave us "power" to fight the new monsters but you didnt give us defence power to survive each other.Due to that wvw and spvp became a lot less friendly for new players. In wvw if you make a brief mistake during a zerg fight, you are dead in 0.5 seconds. So many bursts and soooooo many condition that it is just impossible to recover. That leads to less new players joining, and that leads to more veterans crying about game being dead.All that needs to be done to save this is give players at least some sort of defensive boost just to catch up with all the ofensive boosts that were implemented.I think moost issues related to both game modes would be dealt with when you realize that we just lost a lot of survivability due to the dps boost classes got from each expansion.Thanks.

while your post is in the best interests against power creep--going even further into 1 shotting, it raises another ongoing issue as well: being unkillable(bunker)/wave bunker elementalist

So yea, +1 for the effort though

The balance problems come in no small part from just spam. Skill spam (skills on low CDs), effect spam (skills doing about 900 things at once. I'm looking at you FC, traited shatters and traited steal), condition/boon application spam etc.... Adding more defensive options to players will do nothing to address this root cause. Just start reducing the spam in PvP/WvW. Reduce the amount of things that skills do, reduce the amount of conditions/boons applied etc....

Reduction of area of effect skills and huge cleave skills would be great too.

I would welcome a considerable survivability fix for Elementalist (and maybe others) at least PvP. (PvE is fine)

Also see vid here:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/17554/lets-play-some-casual-pvpDowned in seconds by over-the-top damage or zero survivability.

@Shirlias.8104 said:Lower the dps instead.Problem solved.

Stop giving classes immunities and defenses.

They should get rid of most special buffs and flat dmg % modifiers.

While I agree that we all die way too fast, why fix it by buffing defensive stats? That just leads to an arms-race and pitched battles. Why not nerf damage instead?

I mean, across the board. By, crazy as it sounds, 50% or something?

@Carighan.6758 said:While I agree that we all die way too fast, why fix it by buffing defensive stats? That just leads to an arms-race and pitched battles. Why not nerf damage instead?

I mean, across the board. By, crazy as it sounds, 50% or something?

Nerfing damage directly is still just nerfing a symptom rather than teh cause. Spam needs to be addressed, mostly the amount of things that a single skill/trait is capable of doing. On top of that, passive proccing traits should be slowly removed entirely from the game, starting with passive invulns and passive stealth applications. Then look at changing %dmg modifiers to be additive, and then possibly also lowering them/changing some of them to be something else.

Is the OP saying that the DPS of meta builds (with the “realistic” buffs) is the same as the DPS of sPvP builds? I only ask because I don’t recall any metrics really released for sPvP builds.

As far as PvE is concerned, builds were hitting 30K plus in July of 2016. So not much of a DPS creep resulted from PoF.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4v76gq/qt_updated_guides_and_dps_benchmarks_for_all/

@Shirlias.8104 said:Lower the dps instead.Problem solved.

Stop giving classes immunities and defenses.

This. Vitality and especially Toughness have become underpowered due to too much damage, largely from proliferation of high-damage conditions, and we now have too much immunity/resist to deal with those.

It's all bad for the game. Total cleanse/immunity of conditions is as overpowered as conditions are without them. Combat is too dicey - even in PvE, I spend way too much time getting downed by things I don't even see, and that isn't sufficiently mitigated by having defensive stats on your gear.

All sources of damage from both players and mobs need to be reigned in, but especially condition damage - the best function for condition damage is to penetrate armor, so condition builds should only outdamage power builds against high armor targets. To compensate, access to cleanse and immunity should be very limited so conditions can be more effectively balanced, builds can be more flexible, and fights can feel more strategically controlled by passive build choices.

But it's very clear they don't really know what they're doing. I'm a software project manager in my 30s, and I feel quite confident that I could do a better job balancing the game.

they need to raise the base health pool on all classes by 20k. This would alleviate the power creep over the years, as well as the cheese one-shots (in wvw) as well as give some added 'defense' on the condi meta junk we have to deal with now. It's a bandaid, but the simpliest one atm, that would be consistant across all classes. Ideally, though should scrap resistance, and make toughness affect condi ticks. Lower the CD on all condi-clear utilties for all classes, and make these clears clear ALL condi currently on them. Right now, its too easy to reapply condi (looking at you mesmer and scourge) where condi clear is next to useless.

@BassHunteR.7246 said:When GW2 came out most classes had 10k-13k dps range and spvp and wvw were lot better, i mean more balanced classes and more enjoyable for the playerbase.Then came HOT with elite mobs and hard champion and bosses. ANET stepped in and gave us a dps boost. All classes reached 20-23k dps range. But vitality was not boosted, toughness was not boosted, condition resist was not introduced. That by itself alreasy broke the balance on spvp and wvw game mode. But that wasnt last boost.POF came, and some classes are reaching 33k+ dps range. That would be ok if the classes got some defensive boosts, but we didnt. We are still at same vitality, toughness and cond resist range from gw2 game launch.That is the main issue with these 2 game modes. You gave us "power" to fight the new monsters but you didnt give us defence power to survive each other.Due to that wvw and spvp became a lot less friendly for new players. In wvw if you make a brief mistake during a zerg fight, you are dead in 0.5 seconds. So many bursts and soooooo many condition that it is just impossible to recover. That leads to less new players joining, and that leads to more veterans crying about game being dead.All that needs to be done to save this is give players at least some sort of defensive boost just to catch up with all the ofensive boosts that were implemented.I think moost issues related to both game modes would be dealt with when you realize that we just lost a lot of survivability due to the dps boost classes got from each expansion.Thanks.

there is alot more healing/mitigation now, if you lower DPS to 10-13k numbers or triple base defensive stats, you will get a bunker meta. the only reason the damag is this high, is the amount of healing and mitigation you can build.

as example deadeye with DJ as there are alot of threads about it, a minstrel guard that dogges just every like 2nd DJ is nearly unkillable for me(drops if i keep preasure up for a few minutes maybe) while i can oneshot most builds. i understand that people with not so extreme builds do complain, but nerfing deadeye damage will just make more builds unkillable for deadeye who can get pretty instant killed by most builds aswell.

the extrems are in both ways and it is not in base stats, power or crit damage are not higher than at release but the amount of multipliers and effects single skills can do are. same goes for thoughness healing vitality they are not higher but the traits have changed alot, we gt new weapons and changed weapon/utility skills and quite a few of them increase damage or mitigation.i know at release i could just run around with d/d thief and steal + cnd + backstab .. worked against ANYONE in wvw. so burst is also not really lower. remember 50% assassins signet? :Dbut now alot of classes got passive defense that will make this fail or are build too defensive to begin with.

i am fine with reducing damage and reducing defense but i guess then some of the pve content will be undoable. just reducing damege will lead to bunker meta and reducing defense to berserk meta (no not condi as power damage is instant).

@Cynz.9437 said:

@Shirlias.8104 said:Lower the dps instead.Problem solved.

Stop giving classes immunities and defenses.

This! raising Defence would only embolden classes that are already op (and also need addressed)

@MUDse.7623 said:

@BassHunteR.7246 said:When GW2 came out most classes had 10k-13k dps range and spvp and wvw were lot better, i mean more balanced classes and more enjoyable for the playerbase.Then came HOT with elite mobs and hard champion and bosses. ANET stepped in and gave us a dps boost. All classes reached 20-23k dps range. But vitality was not boosted, toughness was not boosted, condition resist was not introduced. That by itself alreasy broke the balance on spvp and wvw game mode. But that wasnt last boost.POF came, and some classes are reaching 33k+ dps range. That would be ok if the classes got some defensive boosts, but we didnt. We are still at same vitality, toughness and cond resist range from gw2 game launch.That is the main issue with these 2 game modes. You gave us "power" to fight the new monsters but you didnt give us defence power to survive each other.Due to that wvw and spvp became a lot less friendly for new players. In wvw if you make a brief mistake during a zerg fight, you are dead in 0.5 seconds. So many bursts and soooooo many condition that it is just impossible to recover. That leads to less new players joining, and that leads to more veterans crying about game being dead.All that needs to be done to save this is give players at least some sort of defensive boost just to catch up with all the ofensive boosts that were implemented.I think moost issues related to both game modes would be dealt with when you realize that we just lost a lot of survivability due to the dps boost classes got from each expansion.Thanks.

Yeah, but the problem here is actually very simple - total condition immunity and condi cleansing shouldn't be much of a thing in the game, because the purpose of condition damage should be to counter bunker builds with heavy support. They've over-buffed conditions and given way too much access to immunity and cleanse as a result, which is the main driver of this problem. Yeah, you may still have occasional outliers (Vigor is OP as well, IMO) , but those can be dealt with as individual builds.

We've been asking for this for 3 years ever since the got rid of stats in traits and made them baseline. That was the start of the power creep. 3 years. Not gonna happen. If it does, it'll be a pleasant surprise. But for 3 years, this has been falling on deaf ears.