Proposal: Remove rally from PvP

Hi AllMy suggestion to improve pvp would be to remove the instant rally when an enemy dies.I see no problem with the downed state itself, just have a big problem with that instant rally when someone dies.It´s not even unfair, but also kills the immersiveness of this game.Let me lay down both points a little more in detail.

First the easy point immersiveness since from role playing perspective when you are downed you are to weak to stand, but 2seconds later and enemy dies and you are back on your feet, almost at full healt and even at full combat functionallity.This makes NO sense.

Second the unfairness, you can not kill some downed classes as fast as others, that is a FACT.It´s a fact because skills are not even close to an equal level like you can ignore a push or knockdown with stability while finishing but you can´t kill an ele in mistform.And the other point HP gets trippled so a warrior has A LOT more downed hp than a guardian. (again immersivness, you can beat someone to the state of almost dying, but need 3 times that damage to finish him off)So even if you down the whole enemy team and they downed one of your squishy member, and finish him off faster. Then all of them are at almost full combat capacity again.(what are we? some kind of bloodmagic life leeching vampire where up to 5 ppl regenerate 75% life when someone dies that they scratched?)

WHY?

It would make much more sense for someone to recover from downed state because they get healed from teammember after the enemy team got vanquished.Because the instant rally costs no time it has some kind of snowballeffekt in addition to it.Also the removal of rally would give a more tactical aspect to the game, since you have to decide to do damage or heal your downed teammate, instead of trying to kill the enemy as fast as possible and trying to kill the enemy as fast as possible.

I think that should lay down the most important facts.The downed system is not balanced, but i see the rally as the biggest problem.It would also be easy to fix for ANet.

Thanks for readingAnd please let me know your opinion on that matter, if i missed some crucial point of view, if you support this or are against it for some reason.Have a nice day!Alphons ^^

Rally is part of initial GW2 mechanics, i see nothing wrong with it.Class imbalance is completely different topic.

@Cynz.9437 said:Rally is part of initial GW2 mechanics, i see nothing wrong with it.Class imbalance is completely different topic.

that´s a lot of arguments ... :expressionless:and just because something is there for a long time, doesn´t mean that it´s good.But can you immagine pvp with and without rally through kills of the enemy?Which one do you think is more fair, and more immersive?

Rally through heal, with time investment of you or teammates is okay, in my opinion.But i don´t think that this vampirism instant heal is good in any way.

@Alphons.9520 said:

@Cynz.9437 said:Rally is part of initial GW2 mechanics, i see nothing wrong with it.Class imbalance is completely different topic.

Once again, i think rally is fine as mechanic. At the end it is a team game and if your teammates managed to down someone and stomp/kill them and rally you at the same time (assuming you landed attack on enemy), then what else is teamplay for you?

PvP without rally happens constantly actually due to... lol rally bug. Which is rather annoying. I think fairness is in this case is very subjective. I think rally is fair, you don't think so.

If Anet focused more on rally through heal than they would have to give meaningful heals to a lot of more classes which would bring even more issues than we have already.

Once again, that is your opinion, i find this "vampirism" fine as it is.

You know what i find unfair? Is the fact that you can stack so many condis on the downed person that even if you manage to rez them, they instantly go down before they even get to see their spell bar (thus unable to use dodge/condi cleanse). This is probably biggest bs in game atm as far as rally/rezzing goes. As teammate i can't do anything for the person too except trying to rez them again.

I absolutely agree, it goes against any logic.It is neither immersive and realistic, that you get healed up to 375% of your maximum health (Don't forget the damage that you got during downed state gets healed too), your wounds close and your fractures heal, because you threw a stone at someone who just got executed, like even magic and similar has it's explanation, years of studying magical techniques and so on,nor makes any sense in game balancing, it just supports mindless faceroll, where you have to race the enemy, in who kills faster, instead of caring for tactics and teamplay.Under any aspect it makes no sense.

I always wanted it removed. WvW included.....I might even go that far that ther is no downstate. you go down and have no skills. You are helplessly bleeding out. Would propably double down HP in that case.

@Cynz.9437 said:

Once again, i think rally is fine as mechanic. At the end it is a team game and if your teammates managed to down someone and stomp/kill them and rally you at the same time (assuming you landed attack on enemy), then what else is teamplay for you?

It's about the conditions of a fight, it forces to help downed teammates instead of just ignoring them continuing to deal damage.

PvP without rally happens constantly actually due to... lol rally bug. Which is rather annoying. I think fairness is in this case is very subjective. I think rally is fair, you don't think so.

Sure if it's a bug it's annoying, it should happen for everyone equally.

If Anet focused more on rally through heal than they would have to give meaningful heals to a lot of more classes which would bring even more issues than we have already.

Once again, that is your opinion, i find this "vampirism" fine as it is.

You know what i find unfair? Is the fact that you can stack so many condis on the downed person that even if you manage to rez them, they instantly go down before they even get to see their spell bar (thus unable to use dodge/condi cleanse). This is probably biggest bs in game atm as far as rally/rezzing goes. As teammate i can't do anything for the person too except trying to rez them again.

I think this is a case of class balancing, of course also a big issue in this game, but the problem here is the basic mechanic itself, that supports a mindless playstyle.

@Cynz.9437 said:At the end it is a team game and if your teammates managed to down someone and stomp/kill them and rally you at the same time (assuming you landed attack on enemy), then what else is teamplay for you?

i see teamplay as something where you coordinate and help your teammates by doing something different from doing than what you do when you play aloneand killing another enemy is not different from solo playand as i said, stomping is not as easy on each class as it is on others

also if rally is gone, and you win the fight, you can take your time to resurect your teammatesso...same effect, you just have to deal with the consequences of teammates getting downed, by taking your time to resurect theminstead of getting a free res once a random dies, and i´m not even talking about repeatatly getting rallied in a short time, which is REALY HILLARIOUS

@Wolfric.9380 said:I always wanted it removed. WvW included.....

At least it got nerfed there, but how ridiculus it was and it stayed for so long, five or more people are downed and because some enemy died, over 100k hp get healed and the other way around,pure arbitrariness, just spam skills and pray that the rallies are better timed for your team, instead of caring and coordinating to heal your teammates.

I kind of want to agree with the OP. I think that rally is far from a perfect system, just like OP described (aside from the ridiculous immersion thing; GW2 is not exactly an immersive sim with dinosaur mounts spawning under players, dragons and magic).

If it was up to me, the whole system should be removed, but the GW2 playerbase has a tendency to get spooked by any 'radical' suggestions considering mechanics that have been there forever, so I'd settle for at least heavily toning it down. Like someone mentioned, it's not entirely an issue with the mechanic itself, but rather one of class imbalance. Two enemies can down each other at the same time, and the one who pushes out more DPS in the downed state wins.

The rally system can also create frustrating and unfair situations. At worst, it can nullify an entire team's efforts if the downed players get one single kill. Some say it's about tactical play, but I feel removing rally entirely would bring a whole lot more tacticism. Downed players could still help their allies by spamming damage and CC, and they could still heal and get revived, but they would not be able to spring back up when someone (or something) nearby dies. Players would have to read the situations more carefully and bring more effort protecting and healing their downed teammates, instead of spamming damage to rally them up instantly.

Down state is the issue. You win the fight outnumbered but they rezz up. You win the 1v1 but the thief mashes 1 and downs you, and his downstate does more damage than yours (#elelyfe)

It rewards bad players.

I would much rather see some threshold that triggers at 5% hp or so where you take like 66% less damage and your screen pulses red. All condis and boons are removed. This state can only trigger once every 15 seconds or so.

Quaggan doesn't like rally, rally is baaaaad, m'kaaay?

There is a game called "lord of the ring online". It's slightly "old" but in it what we call "health" is called "moral". In short what you want to avoid is your "moral" reaching 0 because this would mean that the foe totally broke you and thus defeat you.

Just think of your health as moral and being rallied by the death of an ennemy when you are down will immediatly make sense. When you are down, you are on the brink of giving up, you lack moral but suddenly, one of your foe is defeated, it's thus normal that you gain a surge of moral freeing you from this "down" state, you gain hope in your futur and thus "moral".

I have to agree with Cynz here, I think rally should stay. Maybe it could get a few tweaks, but it should stay

I would also accept instantkill ^^. So 0 HP = respawn. But that would be bad with all the traits and ress which is part of the system and i am fine with that. As i said. Increase down HP (20-100%) but make the dowend helpless (no skills at all) and no rally.

Let one rally only of he did X % amount of dmg to the enemy who died. No more one hit rally.

Hell no!!!!!!! Clutch rallies are some of the most intense and exciting parts of PvP!

I was asking for this mechanic to be taken out of PvP a long time ago. To be honest, the downed state completely just doesn't fit well in SPvP, IMO, but it's never going away.

One kill one rally, not one killed and the enemy gets all their downed up.

@Wolfric.9380 said:I would also accept instantkill ^^. So 0 HP = respawn. But that would be bad with all the traits and ress which is part of the system and i am fine with that. As i said. Increase down HP (20-100%) but make the dowend helpless (no skills at all) and no rally.

I hate the downed state in pvp. I think it’s good for pve. I don’t do much wvw so I don’t have an opinion there. But in pvp nothing is more frustrating than the downed state. I would rather have it completely removed from pvp. If your opponent downed you, then you should die. There shouldn’t be second chance with downed state. The whole mechanic is very irritating.

But since it won’t go away I think your option is the next best thing. Except I wouldnt increase downed hp at all. You should be completely helpless in downed state relying fully on your team to revive you.

I always hated the rally ever since release. The problem is there are classes that's built around quick stomp and fast rally. If they remove rally now they will have to rework a lot of the skills.

@Mogar.9216 said:I always hated the rally ever since release. The problem is there are classes that's built around quick stomp and fast rally. If they remove rally now they will have to rework a lot of the skills.

Good Point, i didn´t consider that, but there would still be use for quickness resurect if quick stomp loses a bit of value.i would not neccessary see the need to rework, you can just pick another build. Like you would do when your main skills get nerfed or something like that.The only thing that i see would really suffer is the thief ultimate that kills downed people (which i think is not very good and needs rework anyway)

@Morwath.9817 said:Quaggan doesn't like rally, rally is baaaaad, m'kaaay?

Best comment <3, have a thumbs up ^^

why not let the community decide?since the forum is hardcore underused and ingame decision would give more accurate opinion.

• removing rally and keeping downed state is an easy change (just make player same status as critter or pets, where you do not rally from)
• second would be to offer a little checkbox under the pvp search menu, where you can choose if you want to search for a game with or without rally (just for unraked at first)

then anet could take a look if it´s wanted or not.I understand that there can be confusion for people who don´t read and just queue, but if sold right i think everyone can understand it.

I like the current rally state.....

I just got back into WvW roaming with a friend and even though we killed a few and we both went down, we got a kill through down state but only one of us rallied and was instantly AoE bombed by the other 3 left back into down state.... Turns out they changed the rally options and it favors the larger groups, I hate it, please don't bring that crap to PvP otherwise it will get zergier than it is now.

If the rally state is removed, I'll end up playing 1 shot builds. I can already hear the tears.... "was killed by 1 shot, not even a chance to rally or counter play!!!"