Please do not use real-world names for items — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Please do not use real-world names for items

Dashingsteel.3410Dashingsteel.3410 Member ✭✭✭
edited November 29, 2017 in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Anet, please quit naming unique items after historical items from the real world. Tyria is supposed to be its own unique world and should have no connection with planet Earth. The new legendary focus titled Ars Goetia is actually a 17th century book about summoning demons. It was later revised by Alister Crowley in the 20th century. Why do you have to connect Tyria with this kind of kitten? I prefer fantasy pretend world.

just google ars goetia and you will see what I am talking about

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Comments

  • The 17th century author of the Ars Goetia wasn't trying to write a fantasy novel.

  • Erasculio.2914Erasculio.2914 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 28, 2017

    There was a RPG pen & paper line about playing as the "monsters" - vampires, werewolves, mages, etc. Most of them had source books about the corrupted, somewhat "evil" mirror to the somewhat benign player characters. Except for the book about evil satanistic mages - originally, the company didn't want to make that. When asked why, their answer was:

    "There are no vampires in the world. No werewolves. But satanists who think they do make magic? Those exist. Writing a book about them is inviting trouble."

    A similar situation applies here. Showing players a very big reference to real world demonology in a game isn't really a good idea. Sure, you and I don't believe in demonology or satanism or things like that, but those books, like the one in which Ars Goetia is in, were written by people who believed for people who believed.

    How about some anti eyes bleeding options? Here's the direct link to the concept.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dashingsteel.3410 said:
    Anet, please quit naming unique items after historical items from the real world. Tyria is supposed to be its own unique world and should have no connection with planet Earth. The new legendary focus titled Ars Goetia is actually a 17th century book about summoning demons. It was later revised by Alister Crowley in the 20th century. Why do you have to connect Tyria with this kind of kitten? I prefer fantasy pretend world.

    just google ars goetia and you will see what I am talking about

    Have you looked at how many things in the game are named after real world things? I don’t see why you’re singling out this one over the others.

  • I would prefer that Tyria be kept separate from real life demon worship and the occult. Why promote that kind of thing?

  • Alga.6498Alga.6498 Member ✭✭✭✭

    So what? It's a pretty name!

    | Separatist | Nightmare Court | Inquest | White Mantle | Sunspears | Loyalists | Ascalon | Kryta | Ebonhawke | Elona | Istan | Kourna | Vabbi | Cantha | Luxon | Kurzick | 71 characters | "Rally to me, Ascalonians!" "Keep Ascalon in your heart." "May the Gods protect you." "Be blessed by the Six."

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dashingsteel.3410 said:
    I would prefer that Tyria be kept separate from real life demon worship and the occult. Why promote that kind of thing?

    As opposed to demon worshipping that’s been a part of Lore?

  • Many people do believe in the occult and do try to communicate with demons. I am not commenting on if they are successful. I am saying that Anet shouldn't connect the game to this garbage.

  • If demon worship is part of Tyrian lore they should make up a Tyrian book of summoning. Why connect the game to earth's occult past.

  • Squee.7829Squee.7829 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 28, 2017

    Occultism has always been in guild wars. An entire profession is centered around summoning undead things and shades from the Underworld. (The Tyria version of hell). They leave odd cult symbols on the ground that "curse" people in the form of damage or conditions.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    So of all the things that have been in GW1/2, demon worshipping crosses the line?

  • Squee.7829Squee.7829 Member ✭✭✭

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abaddon

    If cult nonsense worries you so much, you might want to steer clear of anything regarding Abaddon. Another real world parallel to Christianity, and he may or may not be literally Satan, depending on your denomination I guess.

  • Erasculio.2914Erasculio.2914 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Squee.7829 said:
    I hate to be the one to tell you this, but literally every thing you read in fantasy has been done and referenced before. Most often by people who actually believed in it. From Tolkien to Tyria. Elves, dwarves, etc. Common tropes in 90% of fantasy is old Nordic religion. Djinn, genies, old Arabic religions. Faeries, old European (Celts, gauls, etc.)

    Yeah, but how many murder cults worshipping Tolkien elves have you ever seen?

    Compare that to Satanistic cults, and...

    It's simply not necessary. It's not like it's an integral part of the plot. It's the name of an item. There's little to no reason not to change it, so even if a reason that you don't think is great appears for changing it, it could be changed.

    @pah.4931 said:
    Aren't... um... "humans"... um... of earth?

    I think I am sitting next to one here at work...

    Dude, that's actually a giant banana :o

    How about some anti eyes bleeding options? Here's the direct link to the concept.

  • Well, the bifrost in mythology is a bridge. In this game, it is a staff. While sharing the same name they are not similar.

    The ars goetia is a book of demon summoning. The legendary focus looks like a book of scrolls. That is a little too similar.

  • Squee.7829Squee.7829 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 28, 2017

    But the demons that exist in Ars Goetia don't exist in Tyria. It's literally just a similarity in name. Just as Abaddon was named for a "real" demon/angel/antichrist, but is none of those things in GW. Angels and antichrists don't exist in Tyria. Demons do, but are not the same as demons in Christianity.

  • Erasculio.2914Erasculio.2914 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Squee.7829 said:
    Asura are literally Vedic demons. You get to play as one.

    Yeah, and Bifrost is from Nordic religion, and revering spirits like the Norn do is common in shamanism and so on.

    That's not the point.

    No one is saying that mentioning demons in games is bad, or that it will make demons real or whatever. Demons aren't real.

    Demon worship, in other hand, is very real, and nocive. Unlike Nordic religion or shamanism or dead religions that either don't do anything or have peaceful cults, demon worship is real, today. And today it can lead to people doing bad things. The Ars Goetia is a direct reference to a book for real world demon worshippers, and while it's not a scandal to have something named like that in GW2, it's unnecessary and the issues with the name are bigger than the benefits it brings (which are none).

    How about some anti eyes bleeding options? Here's the direct link to the concept.

  • Exactly, so why name the book the Ars Goetia? Why have any connection at all. Why is the Ars Geotia getting this homage? Why is Anet giving a shout out to a book about demon summoning?

  • Squee.7829Squee.7829 Member ✭✭✭

    The Vedas i mentioned are Hindu. They still exist in large numbers. But the Asura are ok?

  • @Dashingsteel.3410 said:
    Anet, please quit naming unique items after historical items from the real world. Tyria is supposed to be its own unique world and should have no connection with planet Earth. The new legendary focus titled Ars Goetia is actually a 17th century book about summoning demons. It was later revised by Alister Crowley in the 20th century. Why do you have to connect Tyria with this kind of kitten? I prefer fantasy pretend world.

    just google ars goetia and you will see what I am talking about

    Ars Goetia is just as real as the Excalibur or Mjolnir to people who believe that God and the Bible are myths.

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    http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning...there was Tarnished Coast...

  • Well, the Ars Geotia is real and exists. Excalibur and Mjolnir are only referred to in myth and legend.

  • Zaklex.6308Zaklex.6308 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dashingsteel.3410 said:
    Exactly, so why name the book the Ars Goetia? Why have any connection at all. Why is the Ars Geotia getting this homage? Why is Anet giving a shout out to a book about demon summoning?

    You are literally making an issue out of nothing, I'll bet 99% of GW2 players wouldn't even know it was connected to a real world item, but thanks to you, now everyone that frequents the forums will know. Next time, think before posting something like this...if you don't like the name because of it being connected to something you perceive as bad in the real world, don't post about it and let everyone else know.

    Yes...no...maybe...what do you want, can't you see I'm busy saving the world...AGAIN!

  • Squee.7829Squee.7829 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 28, 2017

    @Dashingsteel.3410 said:
    Well, the Ars Geotia is real and exists. Excalibur and Mjolnir are only referred to in myth and legend.

    So are Terry Brooks novels, and they're every bit as powerful as a book about fake demons. But, more relevant, there are real world artefacts in many games.

  • Terry Brooks intended his work to be fantasy. The writer of the Ars Goetia did not.

  • Abaddon is straight out of the christian Bible. I don't see a lot of complaints about using that name.

  • Yes, genies, elves, etc. were not originally written to be fantasy. Those things have long been reduced to myth and legend and no one regards them with seriousness. The Ars Goetia is something that still exists and there are still people involved in the occult that practice black magic. While I don't believe the book has any power its intentions are sinister. I just question why Anet would choose this for a legendary name.

    Would you be comfortable having a kid read Alladin and then being given a copy of the Ars Goetia to look at?

  • Squee.7829Squee.7829 Member ✭✭✭

    The Vedas are still 100% relevant to the world today. They're still a thing that exist. I'd argue Ars Goetia is not. Just like the necronomicon, 99.9% of Christians will not believe in it. It's something you'll only find in the hands of edgy goth kids and people dumb enough to believe in occultism.

    Which, by the way, occultism is not dangerous. I don't know where you got the idea they were. Just as gypsies curses are not dangerous. Never have been. Because they rely on powers that are. Not. Real. Might be dangerous to some poor neighbors cat or goat, but have literally no affects on people.

  • Why not have something completely Tyrian? I just wonder why Anet is giving an homage or a shoutout to an occultic book about demon summoning?

  • In Hindu mythology Asuras are demonic beings. In Tyria, Asurans(note the spelling difference) are not. Ars Goetia is spelled exactly the same in both instances.

  • Squee.7829Squee.7829 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dashingsteel.3410 said:
    Why not have something completely Tyrian? I just wonder why Anet is giving an homage or a shoutout to an occultic book about demon summoning?

    Read back to my first post on this thread. There are probably a few Tyria specific things, but originality is getting harder and harder as the years go on. Literally everything you ever read has been done before and you'll see references literally everywhere.

This discussion has been closed.
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