Spoilers Lw S4 - Warning for All Those Who are Light Sensitive — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Spoilers Lw S4 - Warning for All Those Who are Light Sensitive

Aerlen.5326Aerlen.5326 Member ✭✭✭
edited November 29, 2017 in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Anet, you've done it again and shown you don't give a skrit about players with seizures, migraines, or sensory sensitivity.

LW S4 opens with a nightmare of flashing, pulsing, and exploding lights.

-Flashing brandstorm
-Multiple red and orange flashing circles on the ground
-Flashing crystals all over
-Pulsing shields
-Eyestraining bright colors that pulsate
-Flashing lightning

Several SEVERAL players have complained about this over and over AND KITTEN OVER but it's like you don't care. All you have to do to fix that first instance is LESS flashing and less frequency of the flashing, THAT'S IT. As it stands, my eyes are watering and I want to vomit because of too many flashing pulsing lights. I understand, you want special effects but this is just getting stupid. People have told you over and over that it's flashing. pulsing, and exploding effects that are causing issues so what do you do? Add more, pump up the intensity, and you add time gated GARBAGE (Wyvern crystals). To someone with seizure and migraine triggers, moving fast in a field of blinding and painful effects isn't kitten happening. Especially with stuns and knockbacks as well. That instance was an absolute nightmare, what the skrit were you thinking? Oh and if I want to take my other toons to Istan or play LW S4 on them? Yeah I have to do this kitten again.

Seriously, this has to stop. Tone this garbage down. Do we have to get Jim Sterling involved in this too so you'll stop because that seemed to have gotten the mount situation solved quick. How much more do we have to beg you to stop and explain the issue why we need it to stop? There's no reason for that much flash and effect. NONE. You could accomplish the same with far far less. In fact, far less would be more visually appealing and give the player the chance to actually look around and see what was going on instant of being blinded and distracted by quick flashing intense effects. What does this even add to the game? Really? I want an actual explanation from the Devs for this and for all the past effects. What do bright rapidly flashing effects add that you absolutely could not do with anything else? And I want to pinpoint.. it's the F L A S H I N G. Not the fact there are bright lights. Not bright sparkly mounts. Not weapons with effects. It's F L A S H I N G lights that do this and the faster they pulse, flash, or strobe - the worse it is. Other examples?

-Effects in Hearts and Minds
-Bloodstone effects in Confessor's Stronghold
-Effects in the final stage of the battle in PoF's Crystalline Memories
-Effects in The Last Chance
-Motion sickness in Confessor's End
-Motion sickness in Bitter Harvest

I know these are not needed because I have finished some truly epic battles, such as PoF's finale against Balthazar, and did NOT see the rapid flashing, nausea and migraine inducing effects used. At. All. These fights were still hard and still challenged me but without the added effect of making me sick and triggering a migraine. You can use flashing effects and tone down the frequency and still get the same effect, I swear to the Eternal Alchemy that you can, so I want to know why this keeps happening? Why can't we have a graphics slider? WHY?

Sorry for the harsh tone but I'm irked. People whine about mounts, Anet instantly comes out with a statement and says no more added loot boxes. People complain about medical issues and we get a shrug. Thanks.

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Comments

  • etsubmariner.4690etsubmariner.4690 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 29, 2017

    Edit: five minutes after that light show, I am now quite nauseated.

    I agree with your post. I don't have those problems any more than anyone else, but that first instance was a real kitten of lights and effects that needs fixing. Not to mention the instance was typical Anet with no direction other than a passing comment by the "player" about how to do it that is readily missed with all the activity and lights and sounds. Uh, perhaps update the quest marker so we know what we're supposed to do with the invulnerable ones and where to go? Maybe help players out who are overloaded with your kitten know the exact next object to be attacked?

    Ugh. I simply exited the game while right in the middle of that first instance and said to hell with it. Won't be playing it until I see some updates to that nonsense. Wow. HTF thinks this was OK?

  • FogLeg.9354FogLeg.9354 Member ✭✭✭

    The start of LS4 was so awful I almost quite right there, so much blinking and flashing. After spending 10 minutes in the graphics options I managed to tone it down to the level where my eyes did not instantly pop out anymore. It remained horribly annoying andfor the parts where no direct action was needed I still had to simply look away and forve myself through whole instance. Truely terrible design and none of that lightshow adds anything to the story or improves the fight in any way, just makes everything worse.

    I made through it but I missed all the dialogue and do not remember anything about the boss battle, just that it all felt bad and I do not want to repeat this with my other characters.

  • cNd.1096cNd.1096 Member ✭✭✭

    What with people who actually like such flashy effects?

  • @cNd.1096 said:
    What with people who actually like such flashy effects?

    Think if people just had the option of saying they don't want it then both sides would get what they want. Problem is just getting through it when only 2 choices are - ignore and get through as fast as possible (and miss everything) or bail from the event. Means over time more and more people wont enjoy the events and means less investment. Think hardest part is finding a balance that keeps everyone happy as yep I do know that people enjoy all the bells and whistles.

  • I empathize with this situation because I get motion-sick easily in alot of First Person Shooters. What kind of change would improve this? Maybe an option to disable all skill and attack effects and switch to basic projectiles, arcs and circles?

  • Aerlen.5326Aerlen.5326 Member ✭✭✭

    @Therys.4368 said:
    I empathize with this situation because I get motion-sick easily in alot of First Person Shooters. What kind of change would improve this? Maybe an option to disable all skill and attack effects and switch to basic projectiles, arcs and circles?

    Either a slider so you can decide how much flash and glow you want or an option to disable/tone down visual effects. That's seriously it, it's all they need to do.

    @cNd.1096 said:
    What with people who actually like such flashy effects?

    Well... I'm sort of bias, I admit. I get why you like it and I wish Anet would consider an option like I said above for people in your boat.

  • cNd.1096cNd.1096 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 29, 2017

    That what I meant, author just wants to disable this effects, ignoring people who may like them.

  • Aerlen.5326Aerlen.5326 Member ✭✭✭

    @cNd.1096 said:
    That what I meant, author just wants to disable this effects, ignoring people who may like them.

    You've been talking to author and author would prefer a slider or option but it's getting to the point where it can't come soon enough and it would be nice if it just stopped being used until Anet got their skrit together and designed that option. Super unpleasant to have your entire LW S4 experience ruined by an over abundance of flashing lights. Especially when more players than me have said "This isn't cool".

  • cNd.1096cNd.1096 Member ✭✭✭

    Then you're right, such options would make both sides happy. And about you, it may be stupid idea, but have you tried changing your gamma slider?

  • Aerlen.5326Aerlen.5326 Member ✭✭✭

    I've put my graphics to low settings and that didn't help as much as I hoped :( I could try messing with the gamma slider again too. I've also considered changing monitor settings just for that instance since I'll have to redo it on my alts. It's just... I wish Anet would listen and stop or start development on an effects option/slider.

  • Thanks for the heads up. I do have epilepsy (somewhat severe at times) & light sensitive eyes "yay me" (most sunny days puts me on my knees) but I will take caution with this. I know the risks & i know my limits. I will play with another just incase i need a hand through the instance.

    Probably thinking...then why play? /uninstall. But in my reality. GW & GW2 have been great for me to pass time & get away from it all. "I know Gaile, you told me to stop playing once before but as said i know my limits. :)

    Cheers guys
    ~J

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  • Zedek.8932Zedek.8932 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 29, 2017

    Anything on-screen, might it be movies, TV shows or even events like at the prom or my brother's wedding had light shows, strobe lights on the dancefloor etc. And you still do play and basically expose yourself to those hazards. That's like saying "I am alcoholic, so let's ban all alcoholic drinks so I can be a killjoy for anyone who likes to have a drink here and there. Or at least force people to invent non-alcoholic drinks for me" - instead of said alcoholic not entering a bar at all. Or when you're motion sensitive - this is 100% triggered by watching movies or video games on-screen while your own motion senses (in the ear for example) do not register movement. But how are you supposed to move in video games or display dramatic scenes? Did people ask for "slower movement" or "sliders" in the "DAS BOOT" movie when they readied their torpedos and displayed all shaky cameras and such? I mean, it's a solid and neccessary part of movies and video games. Else we could just film a chess board and call it "CHESS - THE MOVIE - VIDEO GAMES SOLD SEPERATELY".

    Sorry, but this whole caps lock swearing that a video game uses stylistic devices common and known for visual media (and PC and TV are restricted to audio-visual aspects by the very design) makes me sort of angry. Reads a bit like in Spongebob Squarepent's episode with the delivery serviced and that one guy rages about the missing diet cola after the odyssey they went trough to deliver said menu.

    In very short: Blinking, pulsing and other photo-sensory triggers are necessary part of video games and movies as they are audio-visual media. If you still consume such media while knowing about your problems is like an alcoholic entering a bar and then rage at the barkeeper why he serves alcohol in his pub. First person shooters are prone to motion sickness by design and still people say they buy and play them - just to complain about that later.

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  • FogLeg.9354FogLeg.9354 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zedek.8932 said:
    In very short: Blinking, pulsing and other photo-sensory triggers are necessary part of video games and movies as they are audio-visual media. If you still consume such media while knowing about your problems is like an alcoholic entering a bar and then rage at the barkeeper why he serves alcohol in his pub. First person shooters are prone to motion sickness by design and still people say they buy and play them - just to complain about that later.

    Complete and utter rubbish. When most video games and movies can do perfectly fine without any such effects, the ones which do use them are just examples of bad game design and bad movie directing. Because these are easiest effects to HIDE your empty content, to make it prettier or to increase battle difficulty. What is worse, is that game developers DO THIS INTENTIONALLY while being perfectly aware this WILL be problem for some of their paying customers.

    I have played GW2 for years and never had SO MUCH problem with the stinking flashing lightning. Sure, some of the previous instances were a bit stupid too but nothing even close to this one. So, it is not example of how WHOLE GW2 is totally unplayable without blinking lights. This is just one single badly designed instance. Think about it for a moment, they could of chosen NOT to add any of these lights, the instance would be done faster and run better. But no, they had to spend money and time to design these effects, so I assume over the course of designing and testing (poor guys who had to look at this for several hours testing the boss fight multiple times), SOMEONE in the company must of asked "Hey guys, maybe we gone too far with this flashing light effect?" And then bunch of developers shouting back to the poor guy "Nah, look how cool and fancy this looks!". Or maybe not. Maybe nobody even cares. Not sure which option is sadder...

    As about First Person Shooters, not all of them cause motion sickness, only badly designed ones do. There is number of design tricks to follow that completely negates these possible effects. The bad shooters made by lazy and ignorant developers WILL end up causing this, better ones where developers actually thought through what they are doing and how it affects their customers, do not.

  • I have ASD and while I will say the flashing lights don't upset my sensory issues too much if I'm in a comfortably lit room with my small laptop screen, the amount of fight effects do. There is SO MUCH going on now in boss fights with aoe, character mechanics, trash mobs, the option to save npc's etc. It's like every fight is a raid fight but solo and I do not raid because my reaction times and ability to process a lot of activity at once basically doesn't exist, I am a liability to my team. But I adore this game and while I have always found it difficult, the challenge made me feel like I had truly achieved something. Now it just feels like someone is standing and throwing things at my face and screaming "why are you hitting yourself?".

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  • Offair.2563Offair.2563 Member ✭✭✭

    I don't suffer from any seizures but even i'm afraid to get something from all this flashing flash flaaaaash lights all over. Literally considering to play with sunglasses on as its waaaay to much now.

    Now add some scourges spamming sand shades to make it complete.

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  • Aerlen.5326Aerlen.5326 Member ✭✭✭

    Sorry @Zedek.8932 , that's complete rubbish and shows you aren't reading or caring.

    With migraine triggers, I had no issues with any content in GW2 until Heart of Thorns last two story missions. That's an awful long time and a heck of a lot of content! I've replayed the core game several times - no issues. I've finished Personal Story many times - no issues. I've done HoT maps several times - no issues. Then suddenly those last two story instances which hurt. Do you not see Anet has been ramping up the rapidly flashing, strobing, glowy skritt since HoT and that it didn't really exist before then? GW2 has only recently tossed in this garbage and usually in the story episodes so your BS "lawl all games are like this, don't game and not expect it!" is insanely stupid.
    I've been a gamer probably longer than you've been alive with few issues. I can count on my fingers the games that set off my migraines out of the 300+ I own and still have fingers left over. The only time I have this issue is when lights/flashing/strobing is outrageously overdone.

    This is outrageously overdone.

  • Omnicron.2467Omnicron.2467 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 29, 2017

    I have to agree, I just did this chapter and I do not normally mind this visual lightshow since it does not affect me negatively. I understand the setting feels more immersive with the lightshow but there should be an option to tone down or switch off these environental effects for those who suffer, even I was eager to end the instance just to get away from it and my desire to redo it for achievments is very low

  • If you didn't like the first instance you're not going to be happy further on in the story.

    And I agree, took me ages of running around trying to find what I needed to in that Barney the dinosaur on crystal meth pukefest.

    Less is more...and someone needs to re-read the definitions of challenging and annoying, they're actually very different. I want to feel challenged, not be going through a fight and mumbling to myself "when is this nonsense going to end so I can see again?"

    I'm not asocial, I'm selectively social. There's a difference.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 29, 2017

    I guess OP never step a foot in the WvW visual clutter skill spam... after Pof

  • @Aeolus.3615 said:
    I guess OP never step a foot in the WvW visual clutter skill spam... after Pof

    Or seen the Season Finale of Stranger Things Season 1, I don't suffer and man was that hard to watch in those final minutes. Ooof

  • I agree with the OP, veteran gw2 player here I have not had a problem till recently with LS4. I had to actually quit the game and come back about 4 hours later with 4 Tylenol in my system. Now don't get me wrong, I like the flashiness of the game, the shines, but kitten is it getting over done more and more now. I DID find a work around, though I do believe Anet should really introduce a slider to TONE DOWN the effects so its not a constant rave party. My solution, I use GemFX and I basically had the bloom and contrast turned to zero... ZERO. Sigh, looked like kitten but at least it wasn't causing my eyes to bleed, and afterwards returned my graphics to normal.

    Please Anet, consider a slider, a tab, 2000 gems for aspirin, something.

  • I wear special glasses that block the blue light so it never bothered me. Before this glasses, I used to get nauseated on blurring lights (e.g. lightspeed effect) and flashing lights (e.g. gunfire). Some flashing lights still bothers me, but so far, none of the LS4 lights. So far.

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  • Zaklex.6308Zaklex.6308 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 29, 2017

    Unfortunately, I'll have to disagree with the OP, even as a suffer of epilepsy(which one of my sons also has, only a higher degree) never have either one of us been bothered by the flashing lights in GW2 or any other game for that matter. Not only that, but I'm sensitive to bright lights, I get headaches at work from the glare in the fall and winter time from the stupid parking garage across the street, but video games don't bother me. Do I agree that it bothers some people, yes, but have you considered turning down the brightness or putting a screen filter on to do the same?

    As for toning it down, that won't work, it no longer would convey the seriousness of the situation nor would it create urgency, both of which you should be feeling from the intensity of the storm...that's what the effects are supposed to be for, not just visual clutter.

    Yes...no...maybe...what do you want, can't you see I'm busy saving the world...AGAIN!

  • lokh.2695lokh.2695 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Not suffering from the seizures. Still I think they overdone it with the flashing lights, the AoEs of all different colors, shapes and sizes and enemy attacks that hurl you around at the same time. There's that one boss in particular that also jumps around like crazy in the tiny indoor arena that it's set in while plastering the ground with the colors of the rainbow in a wide array of different attacks of course.

    I can get behind "harder content, i.e. more mechanics that hit harder etc. and i understand that there need to be different telegraphs for those important atacks, so you can learn which circles to ignore which lines can be deadly and so on. But there has to be a different, more subtle way of doing these mechanical things. It would be nice if we had the option to tune the effects and markers down to a more technical level.

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  • JustTrogdor.7892JustTrogdor.7892 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2017

    Seems something Anet still has not understood after all these years. You don't need super exploding, flash bang, blinking, disco, fire blast all over the screen to make a fight interesting. But they still do it for some reason. At this point in GW2 when I see such stuff I don't think, "Wow this is totally epic with all the effects." I think," Wow all these effects are really over the top. I wish I could just see what is going on without getting a headache."

  • Aerlen.5326Aerlen.5326 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ronin.7381 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    I guess OP never step a foot in the WvW visual clutter skill spam... after Pof

    Or seen the Season Finale of Stranger Things Season 1, I don't suffer and man was that hard to watch in those final minutes. Ooof

    I've done both.

    With WvW, I tend to just babysit yaks. If a zerg gets too much, I can leave. My progression doesn't depend on me enduring it. I mean it sucks if I'm having fun but it's nothing that will rob me of story progression, new maps, new items, and lore. I'm pretty good about withstanding a lot of effects, it has to be 100% over the top to get me sick and angry. I've done the Sunspear events in Istan and, despite lots of circles and effects, I've been fine. They aren't flashing at the frequency to hurt. Only open world thing I can think of is one of the Highland bounties and everyone was ill from that. The flashing and exploding was why we failed to kill it too.

    Stranger Things, I could look away when it got to be too much (and it really was - oh my gawd WHHHHYYYY WHHHYYYYY). No reason for me to have to stare directly at it as if I were playing a game (but holy heck, I was like "okay, everyone in the room died of flashing lights migraines, this is my new headcanon). To be fair though... I knew about that way ahead of time so when it started, I was like "Okay... look away if it's too bad.".

    @etsubmariner.4690 said:
    As for the seriousness of the Storm, I'm not seeing much seriousness to the Brandstorm when each of the characters is delivering one-liners every other moment. No, this is a thread about helping some players have something in-game that tones down this kitten. yes, something in-game with Anet recognizing and acknowledging that all that visual sawdust might be bad for some players eyesight/sanity/health. If you aren't, great. Some of us are, and we expect Anet to do something about it whether it effects your game or not. We want you to play. We want to play. We would love a slider that you can completely ignore, but if it comes to it, we'll take a game that tones it down whether you can control it or not. Now THAT, you can disagree with. :)

    See, I agree and also... they could easily tone down the frequency of the flashing lights without eliminating one bit of the atmosphere. Must it be so quick and so fast? Why? You could accomplish the same thing with less frames and a slightly lower frequency. Is it the pulsing lights that convey the dire situation or is it the sounds of the dragon and wyvern fighting in the purple painted sky along with the crackles up above, the urgency in the voice of your character and the NPCs, and the panicked citizens everywhere? I did the Balthazar fight in PoF which has many many effects but I didn't get a migraine because they were not flashing/strobing/exploding at the speed and frequency that would set one off (and Anet? Good job. That fight was tough. A+ - looking forward to repeating). I know they can adapt things - look at the mount movement options we got because some players (me included) got motion sick in the beta. New option. No more motion sickness.

    @JustTrogdor.7892 said:
    Seems something Anet still has not understood after all these years. You don't need super exploding, flash bang, blinking, disco, fire blast all over the screen to make a fight interesting. But they still do it for some reason. At this point in GW2 when I see such stuff I don't think, "Wow this is totally epic with all the effects." I think," Wow all these effects are really over the top. I wish I could just see what is going on without getting a headache."

    I call it "The Michael Bay Philosophy".

  • lynspottery.6529lynspottery.6529 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2017

    @Umut.5471 said:
    I don't have any health problem related to epilepsy or a similar disease. But it wasn't an enjoyable situation to watch all those flashing lights. Sometimes it was even hard to notice the damage circles on the ground. I really thought what would happen to those people with epilepsy.

    ^^this. I have sensitivity to light issues and normally I have my graphics turned down so as not to have problems, but even with my current settings, that LS4 intro instance gave me nausea. I am not looking forward to completing the rest of this story but because I like GW2 I shall........on ONE character only. Forget my alts doing those stories.

    It never ceases to amaze me how this type of game design continues, even when folks ask for an option to tone it down for themselves. Asking for a slider or a click box to opt out of those over-the-top graphic effects, would not hurt anyone if made available for those who want it. After all, most games already have color blind options so why not add this into that category as well?

    So Anet, how about it? Folks are not asking for a complete stop to these effects that your designers seem to love so much, just a way to tone them down for themselves, without affecting anyone else who does want those effects active.

  • Ayakaru.6583Ayakaru.6583 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2017

    While I emphatize.. emphasize.. have empathy with the people who are prone to seizures, I do also believe theres a small bubble of common sense, namely that just like a legless person should reconsider doing a marathon (not that they can’t), a seizure prone person should always consider playing a video game since flashy lights are quite often a medium of animation, especially if it involves magic.

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  • Aerlen.5326Aerlen.5326 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:
    While I emphatize.. emphasize.. have empathy with the people who are prone to seizures, I do also believe theres a small bubble of common sense, namely that just like a legless person should reconsider doing a marathon (not that they can’t), a seizure prone person should always consider playing a video game since flashy lights are quite often a medium of animation, especially if it involves magic.

    Not when 3 years of said game contained no such triggers and they are not common-place. Trust me, if during Karka Free To Play Weekend in 2012 I would have seen content like the first LW S4 episode - I would not have bought the game. I would have gone back to WoW and Second Life and left GW2 for people who like their eyeballs melted. I do not continue to play things that show me from the start they have Michael Bay disease.

    I'm also going to say this again since people miss it - the trigger for me and others is extremely specific. It's a specific speed, frequency, and overabundance of flashing/strobing/exploding lights. So while someone say using 80 tomes of knowledge and doing the level up flash is going to do absolutely nothing, ten rapidly flashing lightning strikes with ten AoE circles plus background pulsing and strobing in the span of a minute is going to set it off every time. It's not every effect. It's specific ones. Specific ones that are rarely used EXCEPT in story instances. As a gamer of almost 40 years, I can only name maybe 8 games I've played that did this out of 300+. Guild Wars 2 is one of them, most of the others are old 80's arcade games and that Polybius rom (which was intended to do that - it's Polybius. Seriously. The whole urban legend is about a game making people sick from visuals). A better example would be to tell someone who gets sick if they see Chubacabra to never watch television because one might unexpectedly pop up and they can't blame the media for using it because television is a medium of fantasy. How many TV shows use a Chubacabra to warrant someone needing to avoid all media? And what about those without health issues who have gotten ill or gotten a headache from this instance? I mean.. should they have expected eye melting effects by virtue of this being a video game? This is like blaming the Japanese kids that got sick from Electric Solider Porygon and telling it was their fault for watching a cartoon (That one makes the end of Stranger Things look tame BTW, I survived like 2 seconds and noped out).

    It's too much. It's too extreme. Cut it out or provide a slider. That's it. Issue solved. Slider means everyone is super happy, everyone wins. Cutting down on SE temporarily while they develop a slider works too. I understand my anger in the first post was extreme - no I don't want everyone deprived of the effects they like. I just want the choice to skip them.

  • Powered through this for a second time by looking down all the time. The boss fight has way too many knockdowns/backs and simply adds more visual nonsense to the screen. For those who disagree or claim to empathize (but then request a reality check/common sense), you aren't paying attention. The OP wants a slider. You can ignore the slider. That's the reality check, and the normal expected adult response to the request for a slider to reduce these visual effects is to agree that an optional slider is a kitten great idea.

  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mikansei.5742 said:

    @Zaklex.6308 said:
    As for toning it down, that won't work, it no longer would convey the seriousness of the situation nor would it create urgency, both of which you should be feeling from the intensity of the storm...that's what the effects are supposed to be for, not just visual clutter.

    A game's visuals are never more important than the seizure risk.

    Exactly. Also if you have to rely on only one communications mode to convey urgency you are doing things wrong and need to learn design.

    To bring it to something I am more familiar with a website should not ONLY use color to convey meaning (ie, red for bad and green for good). What if the person is color blind? What if they associate different things with those colors? So saying a game needs a certain light effect to convey something is pure laziness. You have dialogue. You have sound. You have obvious urgency from the NPCs. You have a task list in the upper right on your screen. You have the fact that there are a bunch of unfriendlies running around shooting at you. If none of those (or some combo) does not convey urgency a light show will not help.

    New to the game? Feel free to give a yell if you need PVE help.

  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2017

    @Ceridwen.6703 said:
    Hey all! Just thought I'd chime in, as the friendly neighbourhood photo-sensitive epileptic. :D

    I want to advise that each epileptic person has different yet specific triggers for their condition, which is why it can be difficult to provide a fix - but a slider and even optional effects, or alternative effect notifications are the current best way for a game to provide accessibility. Also, whilst some of you may have only recently come across issues in GW2, I can say for me, they're not entirely new (snowblind fractal, CoF dungeon, flamethrowers, the Evil Dwayna Statue of Eye-Ow all equal bad). They are, however, progressively getting worse, this brandstorm nonsense being the latest in said progression.

    I managed to do it, but I'll admit there's about 30 seconds or a minute against the wyvern I don't actually recall. :/ I only played a little while after (enough to get to Istan, and finally! 20k achievement points), but have not been back since Tuesday. I broke my eyes (I have dry eyes in addition to PSE), and whilst I wanted to post in this thread yesterday, it wasn't possible due to my eyes. Don't know if I'll be able to finish the story any time soon, or even if I should.

    I've been playing this game since headstart, and have managed more in it than I'd previously thought possible. - I don't drive in RL, but I can hop on my griffon in-game. I can't glide in RL, but I can in-game. It gives somewhere for my imagination to literally take flight, something I won't always get a chance to do for real. Now I'm asking Anet, again, to go further than this: to be more thoughtful towards disabled people like me and some of the other posters in this thread with your game design. You may talk the talk (Taimi), but in the end, you have to walk the walk. Make your game truly accessible to disabled people (not just the sort in discussed in this thread, but all sorts). You can only reap the benefits of doing so.

    My big trigger is stress ... however that can range from everything from missing a medication dose to having a program I wrote fail at the worst possible time. All sorts of factors are involved in whether the stress will trigger a seizure or not although the stressors are additive. Light shows by themselves do not seem to do it for me but I avoid them in case my system treats it as yet another form of stress. Which means PSE warnings do not help me at all even if they were not so abused. My living involves computers and anything on a monitor could theoretically cause a person with PSE to have a seizure so I just am careful around any known stuff.

    New to the game? Feel free to give a yell if you need PVE help.

  • @Menadena.7482 said:

    @mikansei.5742 said:

    @Zaklex.6308 said:
    As for toning it down, that won't work, it no longer would convey the seriousness of the situation nor would it create urgency, both of which you should be feeling from the intensity of the storm...that's what the effects are supposed to be for, not just visual clutter.

    A game's visuals are never more important than the seizure risk.

    Exactly. Also if you have to rely on only one communications mode to convey urgency you are doing things wrong and need to learn design.

    To bring it to something I am more familiar with a website should not ONLY use color to convey meaning (ie, red for bad and green for good). What if the person is color blind? What if they associate different things with those colors? So saying a game needs a certain light effect to convey something is pure laziness. You have dialogue. You have sound. You have obvious urgency from the NPCs. You have a task list in the upper right on your screen. You have the fact that there are a bunch of unfriendlies running around shooting at you. If none of those (or some combo) does not convey urgency a light show will not help.

    All the sound and fury going on in that instance doesn't even convey a sense of urgency to me. It was more of a "what the ... is going on there? I better watch my step and take it slowly."

  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Manasa Devi.7958 said:

    @Menadena.7482 said:

    @mikansei.5742 said:

    @Zaklex.6308 said:
    As for toning it down, that won't work, it no longer would convey the seriousness of the situation nor would it create urgency, both of which you should be feeling from the intensity of the storm...that's what the effects are supposed to be for, not just visual clutter.

    A game's visuals are never more important than the seizure risk.

    Exactly. Also if you have to rely on only one communications mode to convey urgency you are doing things wrong and need to learn design.

    To bring it to something I am more familiar with a website should not ONLY use color to convey meaning (ie, red for bad and green for good). What if the person is color blind? What if they associate different things with those colors? So saying a game needs a certain light effect to convey something is pure laziness. You have dialogue. You have sound. You have obvious urgency from the NPCs. You have a task list in the upper right on your screen. You have the fact that there are a bunch of unfriendlies running around shooting at you. If none of those (or some combo) does not convey urgency a light show will not help.

    All the sound and fury going on in that instance doesn't even convey a sense of urgency to me. It was more of a "what the ... is going on there? I better watch my step and take it slowly."

    To me it did not say "go slowly". I automatically did not look at the worst of it (although unfortunately you have to a bit to spot those kittening purple on purple on purple on purple on purple gems) but picked up MORE than enough signals that now would not be a good time to stop and sort my inventory.

    New to the game? Feel free to give a yell if you need PVE help.

  • Ceridwen.6703Ceridwen.6703 Member ✭✭✭

    @Menadena.7482 said:

    My big trigger is stress ... however that can range from everything from missing a medication dose to having a program I wrote fail at the worst possible time. All sorts of factors are involved in whether the stress will trigger a seizure or not although the stressors are additive. Light shows by themselves do not seem to do it for me but I avoid them in case my system treats it as yet another form of stress. Which means PSE warnings do not help me at all even if they were not so abused. My living involves computers and anything on a monitor could theoretically cause a person with PSE to have a seizure so I just am careful around any known stuff.

    Stress being a causal factor for seizures is definitely an issue some wouldn't consider. I can well imagine you running into potential difficulties in game, particularly if you feel you have to complete an instance quickly or every NPC is going to be a crystalpop, and you don't get a shiny achievement if you don't do something in a horribly tight time frame ( don't know if you're like me, but my epilepsy does not prevent me from enjoying shiny achievements - although I usually ignore timer based stuff because I don't need to cause myself more hassle than necessary).

    Again, I simply ask Anet to consider players with disabilities. How about doing some kind of private contact form where we can tell you how you could make your game more accessible for us? We'd love to help you help us!

    "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Steve R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn."

  • Fremtid.3528Fremtid.3528 Member ✭✭✭

    wow i am loving the lack of empathy in this thread. You guys are the epitome of the internet.

  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ceridwen.6703 said:

    @Menadena.7482 said:

    My big trigger is stress ... however that can range from everything from missing a medication dose to having a program I wrote fail at the worst possible time. All sorts of factors are involved in whether the stress will trigger a seizure or not although the stressors are additive. Light shows by themselves do not seem to do it for me but I avoid them in case my system treats it as yet another form of stress. Which means PSE warnings do not help me at all even if they were not so abused. My living involves computers and anything on a monitor could theoretically cause a person with PSE to have a seizure so I just am careful around any known stuff.

    Stress being a causal factor for seizures is definitely an issue some wouldn't consider. I can well imagine you running into potential difficulties in game, particularly if you feel you have to complete an instance quickly or every NPC is going to be a crystalpop, and you don't get a shiny achievement if you don't do something in a horribly tight time frame ( don't know if you're like me, but my epilepsy does not prevent me from enjoying shiny achievements - although I usually ignore timer based stuff because I don't need to cause myself more hassle than necessary).

    Again, I simply ask Anet to consider players with disabilities. How about doing some kind of private contact form where we can tell you how you could make your game more accessible for us? We'd love to help you help us!

    I generally handle it by doing things like not worrying about speed and actually most achieves. Yes, the 'git guud' types will scoff but I get enough stress in RL, I do not need more from something I am doing for fun. It is part of my frustration with some design elements, like the fact we have not had a map (or series of maps in the case of the expansions) added since S2 that did not force us to do an instance before we could sit back and explore it. I prefer to do the story when I can calmly do it and when everything in it is well-documented so there are no surprises. That is not even counting the stress if I am unable to do some part of the instance for whatever reason. So I know to avoid the stress of raids and fractals but then they go and basically put stress triggers all over PVE, which I used to love for the fact that I could just be a casual gamer.

    New to the game? Feel free to give a yell if you need PVE help.

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