Fractal 40

Besides RIP again its always the content I seem to want to do repeatability that gets changed .

if your gonna screw over players who enjoy doing this how about screwing over people who leather farm or silverwaste farm why is DUNGEON/5MAN content farm the getting targeted of change and Extending/prolonging completion.

I barely like fractals as it is cause its the only 5 man content that is active because no one does dungeon tours anymore. and raids pugs still require you to be 1000 LI and 50 of Each kp. I do my dailies on three accounts when i Finish my main account dailies and Daily fractals I usually pop in pug fotm 40 to earn more gold and relics needed to get high Fractals now that its pretty much gone Im gated to just dailies cause Farm any single fractal gonna take ages now.

do you just want me to swipe my credit card every day or something anet do i need that do please you enough not to ruin content i play? because that is the way it seems things always head. Oh players are earning to much gold and not swiping their cards for gems better remove ways to farm gold to incentivize players to swipe a card over farming.

I've been with you guys since gw1 but you guys just keep pushing me Away like a pest like stop farming gold go away we don't like your kind we want the whales who are willing to throw 120 dollars down a week for chest/mount rng/2000 gem mounts and skins. not the people who are loyal enough to own mutiple accounts who put active time into their game.

Or you could farm one of the many other farms available without mindlessly running through one and the same fractal.

It's not like there isn't any farms around.

Fractal 40 was never a very good gold farm, and fractals/dungeons are not intended to be a major gold source in the first place. Go do silverwastes, that's what all those people you complain about are doing.

Do you really think the people with a ton of gold dont put active time into the game? Maybe they are just more effective than you at utilizing their time.

heh well there is the problem I did silver waste before fotm 40 was a thing before and i hated it. which is why i moved onto fotm 40 because it provide me with everything i need to progress myself further in the game.

its not just the gold part of it, its the now relic/agony and gold problem of fractals. I do need the pages which i can use for ascended pieces but it requires 3k per a armor set weapons cost to much per a page. and agony +1 etc.

how am i suppose to farm relics and agony now outside dailies

Fractal 40 was never a very good gold farm

not very good, just one of the best

@Vella the knight.6072 said:...and raids pugs still require you to be 1000 LI and 50 of Each kp.

Huh, that's weird...you can't even get 1,000 Legendary insights in the game. Cap is what, between 700-800 right now if you started raids from Day 1?

@Vella the knight.6072 said:its not just the gold part of it, its the now relic/agony and gold problem of fractals. I do need the pages which i can use for ascended pieces but it requires 3k per a armor set weapons cost to much per a page. and agony +1 etc.

how am i suppose to farm relics and agony now outside dailies

Pages are honestly the most grindy part about fractals since you're limited to 5/day (3 from chest, 2 from CM's). Relics are not at all hard to get. You have up to 19 relics you get per fractal. Daily-wise: 140 per Nightmare CM. Plus you get a handful of them from fractal bags if you open encryption boxes (chance of 5) or trade in extra fractal potions (5-30 depending on the potion).

On top of that you get up to 7 pristine relics from all dailies + recs which can be traded in for relics bags totaling 105 relics.

Oh, and as far as agony +1's? That stuff drops by the crate-load. Worst-case those items are sold for a handful of silver off of the trading post. Not that there's a lot that requires agony resistance outside of the obvious case to resist agony at higher levels. I'm leaving the new Deroir vendor out of this as his sold items are clearly a currency sink and is meant to be exaggerated

Though to point out an earlier note, Anet purposely made ascended armor/weapons a pain to get through fractals as it was supposed to be a secondary source. They wanted to keep crafting the primary source of ascended armor/weapons outside the RNG chance of getting it as a drop.

To bring this back to the opening post though. Fractal 40 was never designed to be a farm spot to begin with. It's a fractal which means it was designed with the mindset of "Challenging 5 man content". Did it live up to that statement? Not all all which is why the fractal community knew that Molten Boss was heavily overdue for a change. Folks who enjoy fractals were complaining about how easy the instance was (at any scale) and have been asking for the content to receive a makeover similar to the other underwhelming islands (cliffside, snowblind, etc).

@Vella the knight.6072 said:heh well there is the problem I did silver waste before fotm 40 was a thing before and i hated it. which is why i moved onto fotm 40 because it provide me with everything i need to progress myself further in the game.

Things like Silverwastes, Doric Leather Farming, etc are meant to be farmed and, like every other monotonous farm spots in other games, are gonna be boring. There's no real fixing that. Like I mentioned above, relics and agony +1's are generously rewarded. Granted the bulk of the rewards are back loaded to higher tiers. If you stuck yourself at level 40 and never went beyond that? Well, I'd have to say "thank you" to Anet for making sure that players in higher tiers don't feel like their getting cheated out of their rewards by folks cheesing lower levels. If you do have access to higher tiers I would encourage you to do them as you can rack up way more loot/currency in an hour running dailies and recs than you would grinding 40 in that same hour.

I burn thru relics I can't ever earn enough which was the base line why I did fotm 40 Fast and decent got plenty of relics but still was never enough.while I can exchange other stuff for it Still isn't enough I NEED JUST MORE plus ontop of the new upgrades and still in the works legendary backpiece.I stop doing world bosses and meta maps just to try to keep up my relic spending needs

i say 1000 li because most pugs say hey link li expecting 250 etc I never got into raiding at its launch or cared about it till recently because its another way to get ascended at a decent pace but all I got on farm is Vg/gors/escort/carn i got work so i can't dedicate much more time to learning new ones whenever raid academy hosts learning stuff.but you should of got what I meant by bunch of LI..

i couldn't even spend pages if i tried because most of it takes relics now which I'm again consistently short onand fractals aren't challenging most of the games content is not challenging Gw2 is not know for Challenging If I want challenging mmo experience there IS SO Many other games doing A far better job then anet can ever put out besides raids and raids are never hard the problem with every games raids is other players and again most gw2 players Are not skilled at all i can spam 1 on most of my characters and do more dmg then most of the playerbase.

the SW and Leather farm aren't bad but its not something I want to do compared to Farming instances Farming instances was like this 5 people knowing what to do and doing it well that is prideful to do because again not a lot of players can even that. SW And Leatherfarm is press 1 the game

@"Vella the knight.6072" said:I've been with you guys since gw1 but you guys just keep pushing me Away like a pest like stop farming gold go away we don't like your kind we want the whales who are willing to throw 120 dollars down a week for chest/mount rng/2000 gem mounts and skins. not the people who are loyal enough to own mutiple accounts who put active time into their game.

I wish I could pay the salaries of a whole development team with just "loyalty," but that's never worked out well. I wonder why. Besides the fact that the base game, and access to SW and Fractals are free, your number of accounts has very little tangible value. You further diminished your case by stating

@"Vella the knight.6072" said:I do my dailies on three accounts when i Finish my main account dailies and Daily fractals I usually pop in pug fotm 40 to earn more gold and relics

Which implies that your "active time" is limited to a very, very niche portion of the game (i.e. Fractal 40 farms), with very little indication that you contribute much else to the wider GW2 community.

As for re-instating the original season 1 dungeon, I'm all for it. The Molten Boss Fractal was always an aberration among the other Fractals due to its lack of length. I would say that it is much improved now.

@"Vella the knight.6072" said:I burn thru relics I can't ever earn enough which was the base line why I did fotm 40 Fast and decent got plenty of relics but still was never enough.while I can exchange other stuff for it Still isn't enough I NEED JUST MORE plus ontop of the new upgrades and still in the works legendary backpiece.

I honestly don't know how/why you would need a ton of relics. Players are sitting on thousands of relics and pristines to the point that Anet came out with the relic sink just to give players an option to do with their abundance of extra currency. Again, Deroir's pricing on things are intentionally excessive and were meant to be purchased by players who had racked up a ton of currency over the years. If Deroir's items are the reason why you're hurting for relics? Well you're in the same boat as a good portion of the players who are now trying to play relic catchup. Personally, I'm playing Research journal catchup and am having to do a similar grind for that.

I stop doing world bosses and meta maps just to try to keep up my relic spending needs

Like I said before, there are great options for getting relics in a short manner of time doing dailies instead of endlessly grinding 40. Sure, you'll have to wait for dailies to get your relics, but that frees you up to participate in other game content. If you'd rather spend your time grinding 40 for relics you're just gonna end up spending more hour there than you need to (not that that's an option now).

and fractals aren't challenging most of the games content is not challenging Gw2 is not know for Challenging If I want challenging mmo experience there IS SO Many other games doing A far better job then anet can ever put out besides raids and raids are never hard the problem with every games raids is other players and again most gw2 players Are not skilled at all i can spam 1 on most of my characters and do more dmg then most of the playerbase.

the SW and Leather farm aren't bad but its not something I want to do compared to Farming instances Farming instances was like this 5 people knowing what to do and doing it well that is prideful to do because again not a lot of players can even that. SW And Leatherfarm is press 1 the game

GW2 was meant never to be a challenging game when compared to other games. As Anet has promoted multiple times before they want to cater to a more casual gaming audience. Thus, relative to itself, Fractals were introduced as "Challenging 5 man content". In the general scope of gaming are fractals challenging? Probably not, but it's definitely more challenging than say personal story instances or even open world.

Back to my earlier point though. If players made out Fractal 40 to be a farm spot that is completely their prerogative. Though, no one at all is in the right to complain "why was my farm spot taken away from me" when Anet came in and made fractal 40 feel more like a fractal. IF players took advantage of the instance when it was farmable? Kudos to them! But now it's gone (which I think is a good thing) and that's going to cause players to participate in fractals the way they were intended.

Now, can players complain about the overall relic/pages/etc rewards? Absolutely, and I'm sure the dev team would appreciate the feedback now that the currency is more in demand and fractal instances have become more normalized.

i say 1000 li because most pugs say hey link li expecting 250 etc I never got into raiding at its launch or cared about it till recently because its another way to get ascended at a decent pace but all I got on farm is Vg/gors/escort/carn i got work so i can't dedicate much more time to learning new ones whenever raid academy hosts learning stuff.but you should of got what I meant by bunch of LI..

Yes, I got your hyperbole.

And I get the whole "I got to work" I mean, that's why a lot of us play GW2 because of how casual friendly it is for busy students/working adults. Though, it's a matter of learning where to spend your time. If you decided to spend your time grinding 40 for relics, well, I wouldn't expect you to be good at much other content. Personally, I only play about 5-6 hours a week at most nowadays, and I've spent that almost exclusively on raids/fractals. Drawbacks on me for dedicating myself to that content? Well, I can't even tell you how to activate a Bounty in the PoF maps, it took me a month to finish the PoF story line and start on my griffon, and I didn't even touch the halloween stuff that came out other than carving the occasional pumpkin.

So, I would have to say it's not so much that you can't dedicate time to raids (or anything else I imagine) it's more along the line of you won't. And that's totally fine; you're free to make your choice on what you spend your time on.....but that has nothing to do with Fractal 40 being normalized to feel more like a fractal. It's a game, and your "farm spot" got patched. It happens. If SW got patched in a similarly impacting fashion I'd join up with everyone else grabbing pitchforks and torches because that would be Anet getting rid of a genuine farming spot.

I think the changes affect those new to the game from this point on wards more than anyone else. The Molten boss fractal allowed players to get relics/personal fractal level/gold fast. To get the gear and agony resist to do high tier fractals becomes harder and it really wasnt that easy even to begin with even the old fractal 40. Almost ALL my ascended gear came from fractal grinding, even the crafted ones used grandmaster marks. What I think will happen is more players will be discouraged from playing fractals because of the time it takes to get anywhere versus the short term rewards. The benefits of running fractals only become apparent once one is fully geared with ascended and grinds T4s on a daily basis.

What I miss most from it is the gold/hr farm and having to replace it with something else.One other thing is the infinite use Pots are now WAYY TOO hard to get. Ive been mainly playing fracts in this game and still wouldnt be able to purchase the offence one with relics alone still.

Question... did anyone really complain about fractal Molten boss?

No? I didn't think so, so now anet says.. "we think this fractal isn't long enough" let's make it so you can't farm it.

That just kills another farming method.. and lessons the choices to leather farm/silverwaste..

I don't care how people spend their time farming.. but seeing choices taken out of the list is just silly.

Fractal 40 was a good Karma farm, relic farm, exotic---->Ecto---->inscription/insignia farm.. and overall crafting mats

Not to mention the fight as a good testing ground for mesmers and dps classes working on rotations to see how much quicker they can clear.

@Gambino.2109 said:Question... did anyone really complain about fractal Molten boss?

No? I didn't think so, so now anet says.. "we think this fractal isn't long enough" let's make it so you can't farm it.

That just kills another farming method.. and lessons the choices to leather farm/silverwaste..

I don't care how people spend their time farming.. but seeing choices taken out of the list is just silly.

Fractal 40 was a good Karma farm, relic farm, exotic---->Ecto---->inscription/insignia farm.. and overall crafting mats

Not to mention the fight as a good testing ground for mesmers and dps classes working on rotations to see how much quicker they can clear.

Fractals were never intended to be a farm, they were and are intended to be challenging endgame content. Frankly, this is a massive improvement

@UnbentMars.9126 said:

@Gambino.2109 said:Question... did anyone really complain about fractal Molten boss?

No? I didn't think so, so now anet says.. "we think this fractal isn't long enough" let's make it so you can't farm it.

That just kills another farming method.. and lessons the choices to leather farm/silverwaste..

I don't care how people spend their time farming.. but seeing choices taken out of the list is just silly.

Fractal 40 was a good Karma farm, relic farm, exotic---->Ecto---->inscription/insignia farm.. and overall crafting mats

Not to mention the fight as a good testing ground for mesmers and dps classes working on rotations to see how much quicker they can clear.

Fractals were intended to have a scale in challenge. Fractal 40 was never intended to be challenging endgame content. That's for T4 fractals and arguably the CMs.You know how I know that FOTM 40 wasn't intended to be challenging? Because there's 60 other fractals and 2 CMs that come after it.

Please stop explaining what fractals were or were not supposed to be. I don't think you know.

@Gambino.2109 said:Question... did anyone really complain about fractal Molten boss?

No? I didn't think so, so now anet says.. "we think this fractal isn't long enough" let's make it so you can't farm it.

That just kills another farming method.. and lessons the choices to leather farm/silverwaste..

I don't care how people spend their time farming.. but seeing choices taken out of the list is just silly.

Fractal 40 was a good Karma farm, relic farm, exotic---->Ecto---->inscription/insignia farm.. and overall crafting mats

Not to mention the fight as a good testing ground for mesmers and dps classes working on rotations to see how much quicker they can clear.

There were lots of complaints about molten boss, and a not insignificant portion of them came from people that routinely did the f40 farm. Granted, most of the complaints from that group centered around the cutscenes, but even they did in fact complain about this fractal.

@Harper.4173 said:Fractals were intended to have a scale in challenge. Fractal 40 was never intended to be challenging endgame content. That's for T4 fractals and arguably the CMs.You know how I know that FOTM 40 wasn't intended to be challenging? Because there's 60 other fractals and 2 CMs that come after it.

Please stop explaining what fractals were or were not supposed to be. I don't think you know.

This is true.

But, and this is a massive but, Just because the argument that "Fractals are supposed to be challenging" is a terrible argument for changing molten boss, the argument "Fractals are supposed to scale" is a terrible argument for keeping molten boss the same, as they still do scale, and fractal 40 is still really easy.

@Gambino.2109 said:Question... did anyone really complain about fractal Molten boss?

A lot of people. It was objectively terrible, a relic from the old era of 4 fractals in succession, and the shortest fractal in the game by a bullshit ridiculous margin. A ton of people complained about it and wanted changes, and you can easily find 100s of posts on the forums, on reddit, and videos on youtube.

@Harper.4173 said:

@UnbentMars.9126 said:

@Gambino.2109 said:Question... did anyone really complain about fractal Molten boss?

No? I didn't think so, so now anet says.. "we think this fractal isn't long enough" let's make it so you can't farm it.

That just kills another farming method.. and lessons the choices to leather farm/silverwaste..

I don't care how people spend their time farming.. but seeing choices taken out of the list is just silly.

Fractal 40 was a good Karma farm, relic farm, exotic---->Ecto---->inscription/insignia farm.. and overall crafting mats

Not to mention the fight as a good testing ground for mesmers and dps classes working on rotations to see how much quicker they can clear.

1: You realize they scale up so that people can tackle a challenge APPROPRIATE for their skill level, right? Please tell me you realize that.2: t4s are part of the SCALING for the APPROPRIATE challenge, you honestly believe there are players that weren't challenged by the t2 fractals?3: CMs are part of the SCALING for the APPROPRIATE challenge, as those who had demonstrated their mastery over the normal versions in t4s could then do CMs as an extra layer of difficulty4: I seem to know more about what fractals are intended to be than you do.

I too think the fractal was to short there is no way to deny this.But I also think the scaling is broken IMO in the fractals.

There is also another part about it basically the community or better said a part of it kept optimizing it this made it shorter and shorter. Which lead to pre-made group in which a lot of classes has no part in it but it didn't end there. A lot of them used dps measuring tools and posted their expectations in the LFG which lead naturally to some toxic reactions. They topped all of this with an exploit which let you skip the video and posted this as do it or kick requirement in the LFG.

Naturally Arena NET will give this behavior a middle finger

But there were also chilled farm runs which I also ran from time to time honestly pre PoF you needed a warrior and 2 tempests but the other 2 slot were free to fill whatever you like.

Yeah it is sad but people will find a new shortest fractal for farming

I thought given the fractals description: the fact its been that way for a long while; that the designers arent complete morons and know how long a fractal would take to finish if it consisted only 2 boss fights, that it was designed into the game to allow an easy path/necessary stepping stone to reach higher tiers. As a "designed" element in the game it could be considered a tiny bit obscure though if anything (despite being called molten boss), but thats simply like a lot of other things about this game, even agony resistance is a bit confusing initially.

I actually thought this fractal was the 2nd part of molten furnace which would be TOO LONG if it wasnt split into 2 parts and that means they already processed how long it would take to complete.

The cost of endless pots is way too much now (try getting one of those from scratch if youre a developer) except for players who banked up relics already, but they wouldve already bought them anyway since its a 1 time purchase item that has very limited use especially now that 40 runs arent worth it anymore. I dont even know how one is suppose to grind the NEW account wide fractal bonuses, not the mention that the Mist Attunement one seems WAYYY too overpowered. 3% increased damage for EVERY char one has on the account to a max of 68 or something is 204% extra multiplicative damage. This is absurd no other way of looking at it. (edit: actually I think the description is just REALLY bad and it gives a insignificant 3% boost only thats account wide)

So much IMBALANCE introduced from the fractal changes.

and thank god it's gone.

One stupid farm down, only a handful more to reign in. Then Anet can focus on making content rewarding for all, not just the farmers at large.

repeating the same 2 minute content over and over is not good gameplay. large scale meta events and the like on the other hand that require actual teamwork and coordination, that's where it's at.

@Xbon.9086 said:repeating the same 2 minute content over and over is not good gameplay. large scale meta events and the like on the other hand that require actual teamwork and coordination, that's where it's at.

It was only 2 minutes because of teamwork and coordination.

Don't make me laugh comparing that to my input during meta events. I'm a fan of AFK'ing near the Octovine and hitting once near the end, whenever I can be bothered to do that even. I understand Anet not wanting Fotm 40 to be a farming source, since at least from one angle - it takes players away from those meta events. It's a shame, though, that the rewards are so meagre. I'm not sure there is a meta event I really enjoy - I always preferred just doing some quick 2 minute gold adventures for EXP if I needed it.

I very much dislike the length of Molten Boss now. Instead of a quick clear, we now have about 5 sets of boring mobs, with one Molten Effigy with unpredictable moves (until you are aware). Twilight Oasis was fun, until you fight the end boss on T3-T4 where the mechanics are a bit... over the top? Hell, even Swampland now feels like more of a grind on account of having to farm meaningless little creatures twice over, whilst rotating almost as meaninglessly around the boss.

As for dungeons having practically no reward, and barely any players willing to do them often, it is just a sad set of events... Why, oh why Arenanet, do you make more money farming Silverwastes and the like over completing Dungeons? Please rework this more...

i do miss the old 40 but it's not like the new 40 any better since they just prolong the whole fractal too much. running around tagging mobs like in Sorrow's Embrace dungeon. sometimes i wonder if it's a dungeon or a fractal.i don't think they mean for you to "farm" in fractals since it's end game content, just like raids.