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Mirage Cloak: How to make it work better


Dondagora.9645

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I'll cut right to the chase:

Mirage Cloak should:

  • Blink you and all your clones 300 units in whatever direction you're moving to, similar to the current dodge but with a teleport. This would be relative to the clones, of course, so if you dodge left, the clone will dodge to their own left and not your left. Won't blink if you're not moving.
  • Stealth you and your clones for 0.5 seconds. This would make detargetting just a thing that's part of Mirage Cloak, and also have a counter by the way of channelled skills (though those are easily interrupted, so it opens up another avenue of counters right there).

This would A.) Solve our mobility issue with Mirage Cloak and B.) Make our clones more deceptive by helping alter their location and detargeting.

Thoughts?

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Making the dodge blink you is definitely a solution. I like the idea of replacing the dodge with a super distortion in theory. It's just it ended up so shitty.

If I was developing it I would have kept the super speed element and idea, but give it an animation like the Elementalist Water Overload where you hover a bit, give the mesmer and clones a nice purple effect and give you full control over which direction you go, allowing you to move at super speed rates even while backpedaling and strafing during it's duration. I'd probably give it 1.25 seconds of invulnerability frames to make it comparable but different to the Daredevil having a third dodge bar. That way it is an elite dodge that's different from your dodge but generally better instead of what we have where it is mostly worse.

Detargeting is nuts and while I'd love it, I think it would be a bit much.

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Yeah I've been advocating point 1.

Edit: to make it even more clear...

1.Press dodge button ONLY = dodge WITHOUT MOVING (ie current mirage cloak).

2.Press dodge button WHILE HOLDING DIRECTION KEY = dodge with small blink.

It doesn't remove anything from current mirage cloak - rather it provides an extra layer of optional movement on top of it.

Importantly, if you ONLY press dodge (no movement key) then it will blur you and all illusions WITHOUT MOVING as Mirage Cloak currently functions. If you press a movement direction while pressing dodge key then it executes the blink in the direction of movement, and I like how you also included all illusions to blink as well - something I didn't consider. The latter also applies to anyone using double tap for dodge (though I'm always surprised that anyone can play properly using that!)

Another important note is the sound effect for this blink should not be the same as normal blink/phase retreat/swap because hearing that repetitively would be very annoying on the ears. The sound effect needs to be soft.

Basically I'd like to see an implementation of the Turian Cabal's side/backward dodge from Mass Effect 3 MP (ignore forward teleport skill in the following video, that's not the character's dodge - the side and back dodges are the ones I'm talking about), or even a mix between the standard Infiltrator dodge and Explorer from Mass Effect Andromeda

(Turian Cabal)
(MEA Explorer profile dodge)
(MEA Infiltrator profile dodge)
(MEA Infiltrator profile dodge)

I like the idea of 0.5s stealth doing this (MEA Infiltrator dodge gives short duration cloak on dodging), although in the other thread suggesting gaining stealth while not moving I like that idea too so don't mind which one would be implemented if either of them.

Either way this kind of system would make Mirage a lot more flexible and fun to play - you'd have the decision of moving or not moving while dodging, and all illusions would dodge the way you do as standard (moving or not moving).

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I like blink-dodge in concept (as in the ME:A examples above), but I don't like it for the Mirage. It doesn't fit. Mirages are meant to dodge in place, and that's fine. But they do need to better account for AoEs than they have. There are two ways to deal with this, and either is fine for me:

  1. Give full speed 360 degree movement while Cloak is up, so that if you want to run out of an AoE circle then you can do so as easily as a dodge roll would.

  2. Instead, give players temporary AoE resistance, similar to what Ranger Pets have these days, so that they can basically tank out AoE attacks for several seconds after using a Mirage Cloak. You might take a little damage, but not nearly so much as a normal character who just "stands in the fire." That would be a fair trade-off, I think. and of course if you do need to get out completely, you could, and this would give you the added time you'd need to run out.

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Honestly a blink makes Cloak less useful and less distinct: you can't use it to cover stomp, rez, skill 100% reliably because of range issues. What I'd much rather is to remove the Super Speed fudge factor and just give Cloak a native movement speed bonus of, say, 66% that you can choose to use or not by pressing a movement key. That would also free up a Grandmaster Minor trait for Infinite Horizon which pretty much everyone agrees should be a base feature of the specialisation.

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@Elessaria.9142 said:Honestly a blink makes Cloak less useful and less distinct: you can't use it to cover stomp, rez, skill 100% reliably because of range issues. What I'd much rather is to remove the Super Speed fudge factor and just give Cloak a native movement speed bonus of, say, 66% that you can choose to use or not by pressing a movement key. That would also free up a Grandmaster Minor trait for Infinite Horizon which pretty much everyone agrees should be a base feature of the specialisation.

Pretty simple solutions:Double dodge: If you dodge while Mirage Cloak is active, instead you blink (no endurance cost) in the direction you are moving. Usable once per Mirage Cloak.

Directional dodge: By holding a direction, you blink in that direction when dodging. With no direction is held, no movement is done.

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@Elessaria.9142 said:That may be simple but it's also inelegant. Why not just have a native speed buff that works in all directions that you can use as and when you want instead of a fixed distance blink? I mean, isn't the idea to give you additional defensive flexibility?

I agree that would be ideal, but that might not be possible to do. If the Superspeed affected us in every direction, it's no longer Superspeed. If it's still Superspeed then either Speed of Sand gives us: "Improves the effect of Superspeed increasing movement speed in all direction." or it ends up buffing every profession with access to Superspeed (Engineer, Elementalist, Ranger, Revenant).

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It's a flawed concept to begin with, it's as if mirage mirror was designed to play with the scepter/GS and nothing else, break away from melee range just so u could chase ur own dodge. Seems like a totally useless mechanic in raids and high lvl fractals.

I rather Anet scrap the idea and give us vigor or some endurance boosting ability. Or maybe just give mirage a 3rd endurance bar (like DD).

(Oops, just realise thread is about mirage cloak and not mirage mirror)

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@Dondagora.9645 said:I'll cut right to the chase:

Mirage Cloak should:

  • Blink you and all your clones 300 units in whatever direction you're moving to, similar to the current dodge but with a teleport. This would be relative to the clones, of course, so if you dodge left, the clone will dodge to their own left and not your left. Won't blink if you're not moving.
  • Stealth you and your clones for 0.5 seconds. This would make detargetting just a thing that's part of Mirage Cloak, and also have a counter by the way of channelled skills (though those are easily interrupted, so it opens up another avenue of counters right there).

This would A) Solve our mobility issue with Mirage Cloak and B) Make our clones more deceptive by helping alter their location and detargeting.

Thoughts?

Detargeting sure but attacks that are traveling to u will hit you regardless. I like the blink change but idk might be more work than just make superspeed work in all directions

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@Esplen.3940 said:

@Elessaria.9142 said:That may be simple but it's also inelegant. Why not just have a native speed buff that works in all directions that you can use as and when you want instead of a fixed distance blink? I mean, isn't the idea to give you additional defensive flexibility?

I agree that would be ideal, but that might not be possible to do. If the Superspeed affected us in every direction, it's no longer Superspeed. If it's still Superspeed then either Speed of Sand gives us: "Improves the effect of Superspeed increasing movement speed in all direction." or it ends up buffing every profession with access to Superspeed (Engineer, Elementalist, Ranger, Revenant).

Why is it no loger super speed? If you lock such change like behind a mesmer talent or w/e making superspeed work in all directions ppl will just say this is stupid and should be the base functionality of superspeed. Much like how signets working on shroud is accesible only by talent for necros. Sure it will buff every class that has acess to it so what?

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@zealex.9410 said:Why is it no loger super speed? If you lock such change like behind a mesmer talent or w/e making superspeed work in all directions ppl will just say this is stupid and should be the base functionality of superspeed. Much like how signets working on shroud is accesible only by talent for necros. Sure it will buff every class that has acess to it so what?

You hwot? No other profession has access to Shroud. How does a talent allowing Necros to have Signets while in Shroud buff every class that has access to Signets?

Without locking it to Mesmer, you significantly buff 4 professions whose skill is balanced around the mechanics built in. The amount of access these professions have to Superspeed is quite high, and by buffing Mirage in a global encompassing buff, you're also buffing these traits and skills on other classes, who don't necessarily rely on it to get out of AoE circles (see: having an actual dodge).

If you do lock it to Mirage, it solves an issue with the "new dodge" as well as making it only affect one thing and one place to allow for easy buffs or nerfs.

The problem with encompassing buffs is that it usually buffs something that doesn't need it and ends up making an interaction stronger than it needs to be (or where it is intended to be).

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If you read the OP and my post the example still gives the option to dodge without moving...

  1. Press dodge button ONLY = dodge WITHOUT MOVING (ie current mirage cloak).

  2. Press dodge button WHILE HOLDING DIRECTION KEY = dodge with small blink.

It doesn't remove anything from current mirage cloak - rather it provides an extra layer of optional movement on top of it.

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@Esplen.3940 said:I agree that would be ideal, but that might not be possible to do. If the Superspeed affected us in every direction, it's no longer Superspeed. If it's still Superspeed then either Speed of Sand gives us: "Improves the effect of Superspeed increasing movement speed in all direction." or it ends up buffing every profession with access to Superspeed (Engineer, Elementalist, Ranger, Revenant).

Well why not (apply that bonus to Speed of Sand)? I mean, it shouldn't be that difficult, just have it read "Gain Superspeed when you gain Mirage Cloak. While under the effects of Superspeed, your movement speed is not reduced while moving sideways or backwards."

Now, I'm not positive they can generate that effect without some serious coding, it might be hard to undo what the core movement functions do, but if they can generate that effect, then attaching it to a Mirage minor should be trivial.

@Curunen.8729 said:If you read the OP and my post the example still gives the option to dodge without moving...

  1. Press dodge button ONLY = dodge WITHOUT MOVING (ie current mirage cloak).

  2. Press dodge button WHILE HOLDING DIRECTION KEY = dodge with small blink.

It doesn't remove anything from current mirage cloak - rather it provides an extra layer of optional movement on top of it.

Again though, "blink dodge" is just not what they are doing with the Mirage. They could definitely add that as some new Mesmer spec later, but it's not what they are doing here. It's better to focus on ways to take what they are doing here, and make it work better.

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@zealex.9410 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:I don't like blinking when we dodge. You may want to stay where you are when you dodge. . I'd much rather see superspeed updated to increase your speed to 400 units when backpedaling or sidestepping

Or you know use that sweet kitten action cam. ;p

Which still won't let you move at fullspeed.

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@Esplen.3940 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:I don't like blinking when we dodge. You may want to stay where you are when you dodge. . I'd much rather see superspeed updated to increase your speed to 400 units when backpedaling or sidestepping

Or you know use that sweet kitten action cam. ;p

Which still won't let you move at fullspeed.

Whys that?

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You have to wait for a little longer than the full aftercast delay before you're allowed full movespeed in every direction using Action cam.This delay is longer than the evasion, so unless you stop attacking for a second before dodging, you still won't be able to move at full speed. It's actually easier to use right click panning or aboutface to move, but that requires a lot more inputs and turns our dodge button into an engineer rotation.

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@Ohoni.6057 said:

@Esplen.3940 said:I agree that would be ideal, but that might not be possible to do. If the Superspeed affected us in every direction, it's no longer Superspeed. If it's still Superspeed then either Speed of Sand gives us: "Improves the effect of Superspeed increasing movement speed in all direction." or it ends up buffing every profession with access to Superspeed (Engineer, Elementalist, Ranger, Revenant).

Well why not (apply that bonus to Speed of Sand)? I mean, it shouldn't be that difficult, just have it read "Gain Superspeed when you gain Mirage Cloak. While under the effects of Superspeed, your movement speed is not reduced while moving sideways or backwards."

Now, I'm not positive they can
generate
that effect without some serious coding, it might be hard to
undo
what the core movement functions do, but if they can
generate
that effect, then attaching it to a Mirage minor should be trivial.

@Curunen.8729 said:If you read the OP and my post the example still gives the option to dodge without moving...
  1. Press dodge button
    ONLY
    = dodge
    WITHOUT MOVING
    (ie current mirage cloak).
  2. Press dodge button
    WHILE HOLDING DIRECTION KEY
    = dodge with small blink.

It doesn't remove anything from current mirage cloak - rather it provides an extra layer of optional movement on top of it.

Again though, "blink dodge" is just not what they are doing with the Mirage. They could definitely add that as some new Mesmer spec later, but it's not what they are doing here. It's better to focus on ways to take what they are doing here, and make it work better.

Given we have Jaunt and other in combat movement blinks for Mirage, I don't see how an optional blink dodge is any different. From the skills we have it seems they want us to be blinking around in combat and I believe it would be far less clunky to use than a ground targeted Jaunt while in combat.

If they made the visual and sound effect really smooth to bring to mind the idea of shifting sands - ie a soft phase in and out of reality while translating across (rather than the "pop" sound and visual effects of Blink or Phase Retreat) I believe it would be perfect both thematically and gameplay wise.

Sure I can understand if it's not possible to code, if that's the case.

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@Curunen.8729 said:Given we have Jaunt and other in combat movement blinks for Mirage, I don't see how an optional blink dodge is any different. From the skills we have it seems they want us to be blinking around in combat and I believe it would be far less clunky to use than a ground targeted Jaunt while in combat.

Well, for one, it's because it's an entirely different concept than what they gave us. I mean, the core concept of Mirage Cloak is that you don't have to move while it's up. Teleporting around is something else entirely. Again, I could see that happening as part of some completely different spec, I just don't see it as being a part of the Mirage as a baseline option. And besides, they did provide a bunch of manual teleport options if that's what you'd like to do.

I think it's a better use of our time to figure out how to make the Mirage Cloak in it's current theoretical design, a more useful effect to have, something at least equal to the baseline dodge.

Now, I'm fairly certain that they could do it, if they wanted to, I just don't think they will in this case. At minimum it wouldn't be an issue to make it appear to be a Blink, like with the Revenant dodge roll, but making it an actual shadowstep shouldn't be that hard either.

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