Would it be so bad to have story mode versions of Raids? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Would it be so bad to have story mode versions of Raids?

I have been wondering this for awhile now, to perhaps a way to alleviate all the animosity between raiders and non raiders is to have a story mode version of raids , where folks can take two to four friends complete the content on a lesser difficulty and perhaps get small rewards like costumes or skins, maybe a title.

I just think a big tent approach is more in keeping with Arenanets philosophy of inclusion.

Note I welcome everyone's opinion on this, but if it is insulting or degrading please don't bother.

Comments

  • Excellent idea. They have a similar approach on WoW with LFR and it works fine.

  • @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:
    Excellent idea. They have a similar approach on WoW with LFR and it works fine.

    Yeah I have noticed in game especially the animosity between Raiders and Non raiders is getting really toxic....maybe that would be a easy fix that would calm things down.

  • GrubySzymek.1362GrubySzymek.1362 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I don't mind getting story mode. At least for first 4 wings as wing 5 serves no purpose for the lore.

  • Razor.6392Razor.6392 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Sure, story mode with zero achievements, zero map currency, zero rewards other than a few silver.

    Never said I'm the best, but I believe I'm better than you.

  • pah.4931pah.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:
    Excellent idea. They have a similar approach on WoW with LFR and it works fine.

    I wouldn't say it "works fine" ... there are a lot of people who don't like what LFR has done to guilds and raiding and the game in general. Ghostcrawler (Greg Street) once said that the way they implemented LFR was once of his biggest design regrets.

    With that said, I think you for sure could do story mode raids in GW2. You just have to be careful with rewards (if they are too good, there is less incentive to try more difficult versions -- people will always take the path of least resistance) and replay-ability/burnout. A lot of people in WoW will say to "anti-LFR" folks that "if you don't like it, don't do it" ... but I personally think it's not that simple. I was a guild leader of a small guild that did 10-man raids frequently. We were nothing special, but after LFR it made it really hard to convince people to throw themselves at a boss for 3 or 4 hours, failing over and over, when they can pop into a LFR run, beat all the bosses with almost no deaths, see the story, get some (good enough) loots, and be done. Further, LFR and LFD made it very hard to recruit new folks because they made guilds superfluous, really.

    I don't want to turn this into a WoW vs. GW2 thread, or even a LFR thread (god knows there's enough of those). But GW2 is different than WoW and so it should be treated differently. I think story modes can be done (and I would even say should be done) but it needs to be done carefully.

  • @Loosifah.4738 said:
    Sure add story mode; but none of the achievements or gear from the raids.

    I honestly don't expect anyone to expect gear or achievements, they could do so many other things...a minor pet or have it open up a special quest after completion...it boggles my mind why they haven't thought of this and it would solve so many community issues as well.

  • Cynn.1659Cynn.1659 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    I don't mind getting story mode. At least for first 4 wings as wing 5 serves no purpose for the lore.

    Can't just people call it raid 1 2 3 4 5? . It's not a wing it's not even part of the first raid. You have raid 1 with 3 wings, raid 2 and raid 3. Calling it wings makes no sense, if you want to number them, just call it raid 1 2 3 4 5.

  • @Greyraven.4258 said:
    I have been wondering this for awhile now, to perhaps a way to alleviate all the animosity between raiders and non raiders is to have a story mode version of raids , where folks can take two to four friends complete the content on a lesser difficulty and perhaps get small rewards like costumes or skins, maybe a title.

    I just think a big tent approach is more in keeping with Arenanets philosophy of inclusion.

    Note I welcome everyone's opinion on this, but if it is insulting or degrading please don't bother.

    This is why Wow and SWTOR did it. SWTOR did a few solo versions, and WoW did LFR. Most players don't raid in MMOs. That's a fact. Blizz inflates their internal metrics with LFR and as such they justify keeping raid content alive. It's typically a poor investment to create exclusive content, but you also have to balance that against varying demos. This however would add cost to Raid Dev LoE. They would have to gauge whether or not it would be worth the effort.

  • Vulf.3098Vulf.3098 Member ✭✭✭

    Story mode? You mean the 3 sentences worth of dialog throughout the whole raid?

    Definitely worth wasting dev resources and time.

  • Shirlias.8104Shirlias.8104 Member ✭✭✭✭

    To me it would be bad only because after that players will start to claim even more like:

    • why does the hard more gives those rewards and story mode doesn't
    • why do you need the achievement from the hard mode in order to do X/Y
    • why no legendary materials from story mode

    And so on.
    Let's be honest, once you give something to the community, the community itself starts to complain on something else ( or simply claim more ).

    Raids are meant to be a slightly challenging content, with its own reards and achievements.
    A story would mean more work for the team, which could instead work on something else ( i am sure that you noticed that unlike wow which has more resources, gw2 content tends to come out slowly if compared. We don't need A blue dungeon and a slightly blue dungeon. We need more content ).

  • GrubySzymek.1362GrubySzymek.1362 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cynn.1659 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    I don't mind getting story mode. At least for first 4 wings as wing 5 serves no purpose for the lore.

    Can't just people call it raid 1 2 3 4 5? . It's not a wing it's not even part of the first raid. You have raid 1 with 3 wings, raid 2 and raid 3. Calling it wings makes no sense, if you want to number them, just call it raid 1 2 3 4 5.

    No I can't :)

  • Locce.8405Locce.8405 Member ✭✭✭

    @Shirlias.8104 said:
    To me it would be bad only because after that players will start to claim even more like:

    • why does the hard more gives those rewards and story mode doesn't
    • why do you need the achievement from the hard mode in order to do X/Y
    • why no legendary materials from story mode

    And so on.
    Let's be honest, once you give something to the community, the community itself starts to complain on something else ( or simply claim more ).

    If Anet only impemented content that gave nobody a reason to complain about anything related to it we would not even have a game to begin with, let alone get a steady stream of new content. If enough people like the suggestion to make it worth the development time, Anet might consider it. If not, then people are free to complain, but "give an inch, they take a mile" just does not apply when Anet has the sovereign decision about what they do and do not implement.

  • It's not an easy fix. It's a very complicated and laborious change that will increase the costs of producing raids, which ultimately means taking away developers from some other part of the game.

    It's not so much that it's bad to have a story mode. It's just the cost of providing it outweighs the benefits.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • Zeefa.3915Zeefa.3915 Member ✭✭✭

    Storymode dungeons are easier than explorable dungeonpaths, storymode also gives less loot... not zero, but less. People do story once and then only does explorable.... well when people did dungeons more at least. Point is I don't think storymode raid with lesser rewards (non of the fancy stuff), would stop people who already do raids from still doing the harder raids as they are.
    Storymode would be a nice/friendly way to have a peak at the lore and areas, without too much worrying about "not being good enough" and being forced into roles they don't like/are not ready for. It might even change the mind of some people, making them willing to try the real thing.

    I don't want to raid, I have accepted that there is content I am not able to access since I am a bit more casual, so I am not really mad or anything, but I would absolutely love to at least get that little bit of lore and see the areas.

    Well at least I can get xp in HoT areas again after the recent patch \o/ yay for splitting raid and expansion masteries.

  • I am down for Raid story mode, no rewards pure story.

  • Rauderi.8706Rauderi.8706 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Apparently, it's "too much work."

    Many alts! Handle it!

    "A condescending answer might as well not be an answer at all."
    -Eloc Freidon.5692

  • Zaklex.6308Zaklex.6308 Member ✭✭✭✭

    So here's another solution I've heard before, if you know someone that does the raids, politely ask them if you can enter their instance once they've beaten the final boss, then you can scour the raid at your leisure...or so I've heard, at least until it closes...presuming someone has left so there's an open spot. Or just don't worry about them so much? I mean I'd love to open up those spots on my map, but unless I actually want to enter them I can live with the 80 appearing there and knowing why it's there and fogged over.

    Yes...no...maybe...what do you want, can't you see I'm busy saving the world...AGAIN!

  • GreyWolf.8670GreyWolf.8670 Member ✭✭✭

    @pah.4931 said:

    @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:
    Excellent idea. They have a similar approach on WoW with LFR and it works fine.

    I wouldn't say it "works fine" ... there are a lot of people who don't like what LFR has done to guilds and raiding and the game in general. Ghostcrawler (Greg Street) once said that the way they implemented LFR was once of his biggest design regrets.

    With that said, I think you for sure could do story mode raids in GW2. You just have to be careful with rewards (if they are too good, there is less incentive to try more difficult versions -- people will always take the path of least resistance) and replay-ability/burnout. A lot of people in WoW will say to "anti-LFR" folks that "if you don't like it, don't do it" ... but I personally think it's not that simple. I was a guild leader of a small guild that did 10-man raids frequently. We were nothing special, but after LFR it made it really hard to convince people to throw themselves at a boss for 3 or 4 hours, failing over and over, when they can pop into a LFR run, beat all the bosses with almost no deaths, see the story, get some (good enough) loots, and be done. Further, LFR and LFD made it very hard to recruit new folks because they made guilds superfluous, really.

    I don't want to turn this into a WoW vs. GW2 thread, or even a LFR thread (god knows there's enough of those). But GW2 is different than WoW and so it should be treated differently. I think story modes can be done (and I would even say should be done) but it needs to be done carefully.

    Nevertheless, it works fine.