No Land-Spear or Scythe as new ''weapon'', will never be available to us — Guild Wars 2 Forums

No Land-Spear or Scythe as new ''weapon'', will never be available to us

Alga.6498Alga.6498 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited November 30, 2017 in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

The most requested ''weapon'' to become a land-weapon is the Spear, from the lastest patch ANet updated 2 additional Sunspear weapons along with 2 ''dark'' versions of spear and scythe. **We will never get these weapons as new weapon mechanism ** as ANet would've got the biggest chance to add additional weapons to our wep category at this very moment as we're in Elona, which would be Paragon and Dervish's weapons.

Sunspear, Sunscythe, Darkspear and Oblivion are staff skins.

I just... have no words how ANet decided to do something like this... :disappointed:
As a veteran/GW1 player who wished and kept hoping for years for land-spears and scythe to be available to players has simply been crushed and stomped on. This honestly hurts so much seeing NPCs Dervish and Paragons yet unable for us players. :cry:

| Separatist | Nightmare Court | Inquest | White Mantle | Sunspears | Loyalists | Ascalon | Kryta | Ebonhawke | Elona | Istan | Kourna | Vabbi | Cantha | Luxon | Kurzick | 71 characters | "Rally to me, Ascalonians!" "Keep Ascalon in your heart." "May the Gods protect you." "Be blessed by the Six."

Comments

  • I would have liked a spear melee weapon, but I can like with a melee staff using a spear skin. The same way as I'm ok with Hammer having a great axe skin. It's functionally the same.

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  • something i noticed among the 'dervish' npc's is that their animations suggest it's a greatsword skin, not necessarily a new weapon type. Thinking about it Anet could easily had some scythe skins as greatsword skins, as reapers do - well - reap. (it would look odd to use some skills with a scythe and not a sword, but a few greatsword skins already make it look strange so at this point why not?)

    the paragons, on the other hand, seem to treat it differently - as a new weapon type. all in all this likely means that one can ask for scythe skins for greatswords but the only way to get land spears is to hope something like warrior 'throws' staves in the next elite spec - that's about as close as you'll get to the old paragon.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hyper Cutter.9376 said:
    Scythes and spears as distinct weapon types really don't have any place in GW2, their niches have been filled by other weapons (greatsword/melee staff and a variety of short-range ranged weapons, respectively).

    Also paragons already exist in GW2, they just learned how to wear pants and call themselves "guardians" now.

    No distinct fighting styles of the spear and the scythe are no where in game.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Dervish wouldnt work in today's standarts.

  • Alga.6498Alga.6498 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2017

    @Carlin Sanders.3587 said:
    something i noticed among the 'dervish' npc's is that their animations suggest it's a greatsword skin, not necessarily a new weapon type. Thinking about it Anet could easily had some scythe skins as greatsword skins, as reapers do - well - reap. (it would look odd to use some skills with a scythe and not a sword, but a few greatsword skins already make it look strange so at this point why not?)

    the paragons, on the other hand, seem to treat it differently - as a new weapon type. all in all this likely means that one can ask for scythe skins for greatswords but the only way to get land spears is to hope something like warrior 'throws' staves in the next elite spec - that's about as close as you'll get to the old paragon.

    I noticed that too, the NPC Dervish are using some of the Guardian's greatsword animation-skills, but there is some new ones aswell for them.
    Dervishes also uses the Gods stances, enchantments and other classical skills from GW1.
    The Paragons also got brand new animations as they are throwing their spear, casting anthem and chants with unique boons/effects/add-ons.

    Pretty much these are ready to go for the players too, so why not?! Why lock them behind only to NPCs...

    | Separatist | Nightmare Court | Inquest | White Mantle | Sunspears | Loyalists | Ascalon | Kryta | Ebonhawke | Elona | Istan | Kourna | Vabbi | Cantha | Luxon | Kurzick | 71 characters | "Rally to me, Ascalonians!" "Keep Ascalon in your heart." "May the Gods protect you." "Be blessed by the Six."

  • @Alga.6498 said:

    @Carlin Sanders.3587 said:
    something i noticed among the 'dervish' npc's is that their animations suggest it's a greatsword skin, not necessarily a new weapon type. Thinking about it Anet could easily had some scythe skins as greatsword skins, as reapers do - well - reap. (it would look odd to use some skills with a scythe and not a sword, but a few greatsword skins already make it look strange so at this point why not?)

    the paragons, on the other hand, seem to treat it differently - as a new weapon type. all in all this likely means that one can ask for scythe skins for greatswords but the only way to get land spears is to hope something like warrior 'throws' staves in the next elite spec - that's about as close as you'll get to the old paragon.

    I noticed that too, the NPC Dervish are using some of the Guardian's greatsword animation-skills, but there is some new ones aswell for them.
    Dervishes also uses the Gods stances, enchantments and other classical skills from GW1.
    The Paragons also got brand new animations as they are throwing their spear, casting anthem and chants with unique boons/effects/add-ons.

    Pretty much these are ready to go for the players too, so why not?! Why lock them behind only to NPCs...

    Primarily due to keeping the 'class balance' as if they enabled Paragon - a heavy armor class - and 'dervish' - a medium armor class - they'd need to create a light armor class, and everything a monk or ritualist does has already been added to one class or another - they'd need to create an entirely new light armor profession which is completely unique from mesmers, elementalists and necromancers. moreover to keep fairness they would need to create a lot of skins to the new weapon types (they need to create a 'land spear' to make sure you don't equip it as an underwater weapon by accident), add those weapon types to the current professions, as well as create 2 additional elite specs for the new professions from heart of thorns and path of fire respectively. Lastly, do we really want them to create underwater skills for the new professions based on how well revenants underwater skills turned out? All in all it's easier to make them into enemy NPC's than to try and make them into an entirely new player character profession.

    Keep in mind guild wars 1 ended on four expansions. we already have two down, how much farther can we push GW2 before thinking about GW3?

  • Alga.6498Alga.6498 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2017

    @Carlin Sanders.3587 said:

    @Alga.6498 said:

    @Carlin Sanders.3587 said:
    something i noticed among the 'dervish' npc's is that their animations suggest it's a greatsword skin, not necessarily a new weapon type. Thinking about it Anet could easily had some scythe skins as greatsword skins, as reapers do - well - reap. (it would look odd to use some skills with a scythe and not a sword, but a few greatsword skins already make it look strange so at this point why not?)

    the paragons, on the other hand, seem to treat it differently - as a new weapon type. all in all this likely means that one can ask for scythe skins for greatswords but the only way to get land spears is to hope something like warrior 'throws' staves in the next elite spec - that's about as close as you'll get to the old paragon.

    I noticed that too, the NPC Dervish are using some of the Guardian's greatsword animation-skills, but there is some new ones aswell for them.
    Dervishes also uses the Gods stances, enchantments and other classical skills from GW1.
    The Paragons also got brand new animations as they are throwing their spear, casting anthem and chants with unique boons/effects/add-ons.

    Pretty much these are ready to go for the players too, so why not?! Why lock them behind only to NPCs...

    Primarily due to keeping the 'class balance' as if they enabled Paragon - a heavy armor class - and 'dervish' - a medium armor class - they'd need to create a light armor class, and everything a monk or ritualist does has already been added to one class or another - they'd need to create an entirely new light armor profession which is completely unique from mesmers, elementalists and necromancers. moreover to keep fairness they would need to create a lot of skins to the new weapon types (they need to create a 'land spear' to make sure you don't equip it as an underwater weapon by accident), add those weapon types to the current professions, as well as create 2 additional elite specs for the new professions from heart of thorns and path of fire respectively. Lastly, do we really want them to create underwater skills for the new professions based on how well revenants underwater skills turned out? All in all it's easier to make them into enemy NPC's than to try and make them into an entirely new player character profession.

    Keep in mind guild wars 1 ended on four expansions. we already have two down, how much farther can we push GW2 before thinking about GW3?

    I see your point regards 4th weight profession and I agree.
    I was more thinking as sub-classes/secret or purchasable mini-professions or "skins" for existing professions but instead playing as Warrior/Guardian you'll be using the "skin" as Paragon and using the NPC animations, weapons and abilities skills. Same goes to Dervish.

    I doubt there will be a GW3, as GW2 has so much still to give. We have only been in half of Tyria (typish) and a few places in Elona.
    There is so much to explore and we still have 4 Elder Dragons and many other enemies.
    The game is, as players, 5 years old indeed. WoW are even older and look how many expansions they have and still up and running, :tongue:

    | Separatist | Nightmare Court | Inquest | White Mantle | Sunspears | Loyalists | Ascalon | Kryta | Ebonhawke | Elona | Istan | Kourna | Vabbi | Cantha | Luxon | Kurzick | 71 characters | "Rally to me, Ascalonians!" "Keep Ascalon in your heart." "May the Gods protect you." "Be blessed by the Six."

  • Jin.8501Jin.8501 Member ✭✭

    It's called Javelin, not land stick

  • OriOri.8724OriOri.8724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    We aren't getting any new weapon types. It would be far more work than you gives think it would be. It would involve significantly more than just making a few new animations.

    Eyyyy I unlocked signatures

  • @Carlin Sanders.3587 said:

    @Alga.6498 said:

    @Carlin Sanders.3587 said:
    something i noticed among the 'dervish' npc's is that their animations suggest it's a greatsword skin, not necessarily a new weapon type. Thinking about it Anet could easily had some scythe skins as greatsword skins, as reapers do - well - reap. (it would look odd to use some skills with a scythe and not a sword, but a few greatsword skins already make it look strange so at this point why not?)

    the paragons, on the other hand, seem to treat it differently - as a new weapon type. all in all this likely means that one can ask for scythe skins for greatswords but the only way to get land spears is to hope something like warrior 'throws' staves in the next elite spec - that's about as close as you'll get to the old paragon.

    I noticed that too, the NPC Dervish are using some of the Guardian's greatsword animation-skills, but there is some new ones aswell for them.
    Dervishes also uses the Gods stances, enchantments and other classical skills from GW1.
    The Paragons also got brand new animations as they are throwing their spear, casting anthem and chants with unique boons/effects/add-ons.

    Pretty much these are ready to go for the players too, so why not?! Why lock them behind only to NPCs...

    Primarily due to keeping the 'class balance' as if they enabled Paragon - a heavy armor class - and 'dervish' - a medium armor class - they'd need to create a light armor class, and everything a monk or ritualist does has already been added to one class or another - they'd need to create an entirely new light armor profession which is completely unique from mesmers, elementalists and necromancers. moreover to keep fairness they would need to create a lot of skins to the new weapon types (they need to create a 'land spear' to make sure you don't equip it as an underwater weapon by accident), add those weapon types to the current professions, as well as create 2 additional elite specs for the new professions from heart of thorns and path of fire respectively. Lastly, do we really want them to create underwater skills for the new professions based on how well revenants underwater skills turned out? All in all it's easier to make them into enemy NPC's than to try and make them into an entirely new player character profession.

    Keep in mind guild wars 1 ended on four expansions. we already have two down, how much farther can we push GW2 before thinking about GW3?

    For skins they could simply just use some of the same skins from Trident/Spear/Staff actually.

  • Scythe is treated as a staff, so they've already touched on that. Not saying they couldn't make it it's own type but staffs animation for necros plus the weapon of the Reaper form and the three skins probably means it's not going to be a thing in GW2. I know it's not like GW1 just pointing out they actually have a version of them in game so I wouldn't expect them to actually feel a need for it.

    As for the Spear on land, that will probably have to hit for the warrior next elite, they're really isn't a weapon option for them outside a scepter or focus at this point. Though to be fair they could just make a caster warrior instead of the obvious.

  • Alga.6498Alga.6498 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @OriOri.8724 said:
    We aren't getting any new weapon types. It would be far more work than you gives think it would be. It would involve significantly more than just making a few new animations.

    At some point, they have to. There are some professions who already using most of the weapons, sure they can do a whole new Elite Specs Collection for our 3rd expansion, but what happens after that?


    Yeah we still got a few weapons more to add for each profession such as;
    Pistol, Scepter and Focus, Staff, Shortbow for Warrior.
    Dagger, Pistol, Warhorn, Rifle and Shortbow for Guardian....

    Yeah fine, we have a few more to go indeed, but a new weapon mechanism would be a new, fresh way to cheer and hype the playerbase up. Polearm for an example would be a great additional as it was original going to be a weapon along with the other collection but was somehow cut from the plans.

    | Separatist | Nightmare Court | Inquest | White Mantle | Sunspears | Loyalists | Ascalon | Kryta | Ebonhawke | Elona | Istan | Kourna | Vabbi | Cantha | Luxon | Kurzick | 71 characters | "Rally to me, Ascalonians!" "Keep Ascalon in your heart." "May the Gods protect you." "Be blessed by the Six."

  • OriOri.8724OriOri.8724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Alga.6498 said:

    @OriOri.8724 said:
    We aren't getting any new weapon types. It would be far more work than you gives think it would be. It would involve significantly more than just making a few new animations.

    At some point, they have to. There are some professions who already using most of the weapons, sure they can do a whole new Elite Specs Collection for our 3rd expansion, but what happens after that?


    Yeah we still got a few weapons more to add for each profession such as;
    Pistol, Scepter and Focus, Staff, Shortbow for Warrior.
    Dagger, Pistol, Warhorn, Rifle and Shortbow for Guardian....

    Yeah fine, we have a few more to go indeed, but a new weapon mechanism would be a new, fresh way to cheer and hype the playerbase up. Polearm for an example would be a great additional as it was original going to be a weapon along with the other collection but was somehow cut from the plans.

    A - There is a minimum of 5 new elite specs required before Warrior is capable of using all weapons currently in the game (6 absolute minimum if you want to include an underwater expansion), and that's assuming he gets double pistols in a single elite spec

    B - There's nothing saying a new elite spec for a class can't reuse the same weapon an older one used

    C - You 100% ignored my comment and didn't even try to respond to what I said.

    Making a new weapon type is significantly harder than just making a few animations. You would need dozens of skins to start with, for player choices. You would need to add the ability for multiple classes to use that weapon, because try justifying to Anet as a company why so much effort should go into a weapon type that only a single class can use. At that point you are looking into expanding multiple classes, so you would have to then expand all of them to be fair. And all of this would really bring nothing of value to the game. There is still plenty of design space left to use the current weapons. Even more once Anet starts using MH only weapons in OH or vice versa, or experimenting with elite specs turning single handed weapons into 2H weapons.

    Eyyyy I unlocked signatures

  • Derv, Paragon, Monk, and Rit. I'm honestly not even sure why they gave us the revenant instead of an existing class that is already desired from the original GW. My fear is if they look at data and see rev is not a popular class will they just assume adding a new one is a waste of resources? The worth of adding a new weapon type for just 1 single class? The safest bet is to hope that ANet make an elite spec using these weapon types in a similar way to their respective GW1 classes. There's proof they can do it visually with the reaper in shroud form who uses a 'scythe'.

    GW1 rolling in its grave lol

  • I agree with the OP, it would have been a lot of fun to play as a dervish or a paragon in GW2. :)

    The skill system is perfect for a series of "Avatar of the Gods" skills - they would give passive effects and replace our weapons. Could have been ArenaNet's answer to shape shifters in other MMORPGs, allowing our characters to fill multiple roles. Paragons have a very different mechanic than anything currently in GW2, with a weapon that is very different from what we have today (I think the closest thing would be ranger's main hand axe), and with the possibility of some very unique profession mechanics.

    Like the OP said, it's not going to happen. If it were going to happen, it would have been in this expansion. But it would have been great, had it been possible.

    How about some anti eyes bleeding options? Here's the direct link to the concept.

  • Shirlias.8104Shirlias.8104 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Imho aquatic weapons will be a new category for ground combat in the next expansion ( for some elites ).
    In order to give unused skins, new weapons, and to put a definitive end on underwater combat.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The wepon in GW2 are a bit more palstack then other games in ideal. A staff is both a staff and a spear and a scythe a hammer in both a hammer and G. Axe think on these lines. Your not getting new wepon in GW2 for the most part just new skins that make the wepon look like there other "types."

    In a lot of ways looking at "types" of ideal for wepon is a better way to think about it then as a wepon in it self.

  • starlinvf.1358starlinvf.1358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Rukia.9860 said:
    Derv, Paragon, Monk, and Rit. I'm honestly not even sure why they gave us the revenant instead of an existing class that is already desired from the original GW. My fear is if they look at data and see rev is not a popular class will they just assume adding a new one is a waste of resources? The worth of adding a new weapon type for just 1 single class? The safest bet is to hope that ANet make an elite spec using these weapon types in a similar way to their respective GW1 classes. There's proof they can do it visually with the reaper in shroud form who uses a 'scythe'.

    The same reason 5 classes were rolled up into the guardian....... they can't follow the GW1 archetypes close enough to recreate them with the way GW2's combat works. Thats why many of the classes that carried over in name had major changes in functions. Ranger has several melee options, Warrior gets a Rifle and absorbed half the Paragon Support kit, Mesmer needed something more flexible then hexes, Ritualist mechanics was rethemed under the Engineer (which people rejected) and now the theme was brought back with the Revanent (which people also rejected). And as previously stated, Monks can't serve their role competently with the new combat paradigm.... Even when the role is forced into the system, like it was with the Druid.

    Revanent is a functional fusion of the Dervish and Ritualist, with the Renegade pushing that theme as hard as they can. The problem with Fan service is what happens when 2 mechanical designs start to clash, because the fans demand something, and not realize it can't work out of its element. GW1 and GW2 are fundamentally different games; and the reshuffling and renaming of classes was done to make sure ties were broken with their roots, so they wouldn't be enslaved to the previous, and very rigid archetypes. Consider the Dervish eats its own Buffs to fuel its skills.... something the Spell breaker does, and is considered one of the worst decisions by players due to how we utilize and value Boons. That is a fundamental mechanic of the Dervish that is immediately rejected by players as a bad design choice with how GW2 works. If we bring back the Dervish without the Buff eating paradigm, its essentially just self stacking boons, which is what Ranger and Warrior does with a lot of its traits. This forum already spends too much time theory crafting the redundancy of entire classes.... do we really need more classes, just so we have more things to shun in the meta?

  • Cuddy.6247Cuddy.6247 Member ✭✭✭

    Tbf though, there's no rule against them also taking an elite spec and reworking how a weapon is used. Say they want to give a "spear" to guardian...make an elite spec that changes staff skills. Intended for a spear, but can also use any other staff. Such is life, as I see it.

  • Cuddy.6247Cuddy.6247 Member ✭✭✭

    @starlinvf.1358 said:
    Revanent (which people also rejected).

    Dunno if it's rejected so much as it just feels like it's missing quite a bit. I'm a big fan of the Shiro legend but it only marginally pairs well with some of the other options. Kinda hoping next expansion will make them more enjoyable for me finally.

  • Alga.6498Alga.6498 Member ✭✭✭✭

    As for Revanent, it would be awesome to see his next Elite Spec as MH Scepter, Ritualist.

    | Separatist | Nightmare Court | Inquest | White Mantle | Sunspears | Loyalists | Ascalon | Kryta | Ebonhawke | Elona | Istan | Kourna | Vabbi | Cantha | Luxon | Kurzick | 71 characters | "Rally to me, Ascalonians!" "Keep Ascalon in your heart." "May the Gods protect you." "Be blessed by the Six."

  • Alga.6498Alga.6498 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 4, 2018

    Had an old draft laying around here so I might just aswell comment this :lol:,

    The Loyalist Paragon uses the following skills:

    • Song of Restoration
    • Anthem of Flame
    • Throw Spear

    The Loyalist Dervish uses the following skills:

    • Grenth's Aura/Life Stealing Aura
    • Blinding Sandstorm
    • Steals Boons

    Since they've already created some of the abilities for a completely ''profession''/elite-spec, I sure hope ANet decides to add Land-Spear/Trident or the original Polearm weapon mechanism with Paragon's skills and ditto with Dervish.
    I wish the Sun-Scythe was also a skin for Greatsword aswell. :disappointed:

    | Separatist | Nightmare Court | Inquest | White Mantle | Sunspears | Loyalists | Ascalon | Kryta | Ebonhawke | Elona | Istan | Kourna | Vabbi | Cantha | Luxon | Kurzick | 71 characters | "Rally to me, Ascalonians!" "Keep Ascalon in your heart." "May the Gods protect you." "Be blessed by the Six."

  • Edelweiss.4261Edelweiss.4261 Member ✭✭✭

    I'd really like to see polearms, spears, and chakrams. I'd probably put scythes and great axes into the polearm category as both are bladed and could use similar animations. These weapons would focus on attacking a mob of enemies surrounding the player with a single-target defense-breaking attack on a long cooldown(to include the flavor of a great axe). Spears are more for stabbing/throwing, so would need to be separate from the other polearms. I think these weapons could play to the flavor of a legionnaire by increasing in effectiveness when in formations(or something like that). Let them generate buffs when near allies or something. Chakrams could serve as the light armor counterbalance. Chakrams are interesting as they can be an AoE, ranged weapon.

  • TwiceDead.1963TwiceDead.1963 Member ✭✭✭

    Spears always get shafted in favor of greatswords and the like... kitten getting old.

  • particlepinata.9865particlepinata.9865 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 5, 2018

    @Hyper Cutter.9376 said:
    Scythes and spears as distinct weapon types really don't have any place in GW2, their niches have been filled by other weapons (greatsword/melee staff and a variety of short-range ranged weapons, respectively).

    Also paragons already exist in GW2, they just learned how to wear pants and call themselves "guardians" now.

    Thats nonsense, its all about immersion. By your reasoning we might just as well only have a bow, a staf and a sword and nothing else. That doesnt build a rich gameworld.

  • @Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921 said:
    As for the Spear on land, that will probably have to hit for the warrior next elite, they're really isn't a weapon option for them outside a scepter or focus at this point. Though to be fair they could just make a caster warrior instead of the obvious.

    Haha, yes! A stave-chucking warrior would be both hilarious and cool.

  • moonstarmac.4603moonstarmac.4603 Member ✭✭✭

    @Hyper Cutter.9376 said:

    Also paragons already exist in GW2, they just learned how to wear pants and call themselves "guardians" now.

    Yes...too bad they haven't learned not to shout at people though...at least they still have that in common with the average drunkard.

    Wolf Moonstar
    Dragon Council, Third Seat: Jade Sea Haven (Jade) of Ehmry Bay
    My Ryzen Rig

  • I get it, that yes a staff can look like a spear, but it doens't function like one. Even the Daredevil... A spear and a bo-staff function differently. Spear can do some things a staff can, but it's more meant for stabbing. But the main issue I have is... almost all the classes, with exception of Dare devil... use the staff in magical ways, not in physical ways. It would be vastly different, and as for skins, they already exist! At most, they would need to add a few more, but can do that over time; add new animations, yes, for each race and class; and skill rebalance. There are some classes out there, that only have 2 weapon sets for things like a Condition build, and they occupy both weapon set slots, leaving only one way to play that build, or vice versa where there's only 2 weapon sets that are power based. It'd give more customization to characters.

    Underwater is underutilized. It's at least interesting, but not practical. Hardly anyone likes to do battles underwater (though I think part of it is the lack of customization. Condition build? Gotta use one weapon, and the other is lackluster, etc.) I would love to see both spear and trident be added to land combat, could even be as one weapon together "Polearm" that uses both sets of skins. If unlocked for underwater, can be used on land version. Easily having a bit more reach that a sword or mace.

  • sorudo.9054sorudo.9054 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Alga.6498 said:
    As for Revanent, it would be awesome to see his next Elite Spec as MH Scepter, Ritualist.

    uhmm, that's the role for a necro, rev's are the mistake to just fill the void.

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