Is current developer criticism warranted or are we just demanding too much? - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Is current developer criticism warranted or are we just demanding too much?

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  • @Vayne.8563 said:
    My issue is usually not complaints but how complaints are worded.

    This x1000.

    How something is said is just as important - if not more so - than what is being said. Someone could have a legitimate complaint/concern but if they word it in such a way that it's full of insults, personal attacks, cursing, hyperbole, and so on, no one's going to take the time to read it. This goes for both regular forum goers like myself and employees. A lot of people here, I think, let emotions get in the way of their posts which is why there's this overwhelming amount of hostility in their tone that drowns out legitimate concerns/complaints they have.

    Another part of the problem is that this is the internet. You give people a mask to hide behind and they'll show their true face. Anonymity is the perfect mask for people to hide behind and they'll use it as an excuse to be as ugly, as vile, as vicious, and as uncivilized in their posts as possible.

    I'm certainly guilty of making knee-jerk posts in the past - and because I'm human I guarantee you I'll screw up again - so I'm not perfect and I regret any screw-ups I made in that regard (including future screw ups). However, I try my best not to post when my emotions are high, to let myself cool down so that I can make posts that address my concerns/criticisms without spitting venom everywhere.

    Asura fanatic.
    World's largest Zojja fan.
    Illconceived Was Na fanboy.

  • Leo G.4501Leo G.4501 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2017

    @Zaklex.6308 said:

    @Leo G.4501 said:
    I wouldn't say it's a bad thing to criticize the devs, the harsher the better, but a critic should be prepared to be the target of further criticism.

    You are so wrong and show what is wrong with the majority of people that complain. I can GUARANTEE you that the harsher you are the less the devs listen to you. Conversely, if you can manage to write your criticism in a constructive non-harsh manner you're most than likely going to have your criticism looked at and taken into consideration...that goes for any thing really, not just game dev.

    Harshness is ignored across the board, constructive criticism done in an intelligent and even toned manner will be taken into consideration.

    P.S. - For the person that is still complaining about the 30 mount SKIN bundle, people bought it, apparently a lot of people bought it(and the optional 10 mount skin license). There is not right way to go back and change that so that it satisfies those people that wanted some of those skins but not all of them. You had the option of buying the license or not...you chose not to, now you won't be able to get those skins(except maybe in the future when they offer the deal again at a discount).

    My perspective is, even toned and courteous is ideal, but people usually aren't interested in courteous and polite. People like to argue and debate and this attracts more people to a discussion.

    I've made plenty of courteous observations and suggestions for the game and beyond a few dozen responses, it's usually over within a day or a few.

    I would definitely agree with your stance when providing criticism in a one-on-one face-to-face scenario, but this isn't.

  • Rauderi.8706Rauderi.8706 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I find myself in a baffling position on this topic.
    On the one hand, we just got some very spiffy QoL improvements.
    On the other hand, we still have CC-spam mobs and aggro ranges longer than King Joko's ego.

    So I can't say "ANet isn't listening to us," because when it comes to QoL and several other elements of the game, ANet's performing admirably. :star:

    And yet, I feel there's a dark, shadowy corner of the offices, filled with cries of "Bweeheehee" and No Shave November mustache twirls when it comes to balance and encounter design. :skull:
    Not that I can be too accusatory, because I don't play meta, so sometimes I get lots of buffs. :grin:
    But really though, sometimes I feel like we're not just ignored, but actively maligned...

    Many alts! Handle it!

    "A condescending answer might as well not be an answer at all."
    -Eloc Freidon.5692

  • @Zaklex.6308 said:

    @Leo G.4501 said:
    I wouldn't say it's a bad thing to criticize the devs, the harsher the better, but a critic should be prepared to be the target of further criticism.

    You are so wrong and show what is wrong with the majority of people that complain. I can GUARANTEE you that the harsher you are the less the devs listen to you. Conversely, if you can manage to write your criticism in a constructive non-harsh manner you're most than likely going to have your criticism looked at and taken into consideration...that goes for any thing really, not just game dev.

    Harshness is ignored across the board, constructive criticism done in an intelligent and even toned manner will be taken into consideration.

    P.S. - For the person that is still complaining about the 30 mount SKIN bundle, people bought it, apparently a lot of people bought it(and the optional 10 mount skin license). There is not right way to go back and change that so that it satisfies those people that wanted some of those skins but not all of them. You had the option of buying the license or not...you chose not to, now you won't be able to get those skins(except maybe in the future when they offer the deal again at a discount).

    I agree. There's no way a dev wants to come to a forum and make a post about new features or game balance changes if he/she is going to get kitten on by the community. I think this is the reason why they've been relatively silent besides commenting on artwork/meme posts.

    I just find it jarring that it's this community in particular (considered to be a more casual game), because I frequent other MMO subs that are not nearly as dev demanding. Maybe it's casuals in general that are up in arms? People that aren't used to playing MMO's don't really know the realistic limitations of the game and thus feel like they are playing a "broken" game. I don't really see raiders making vids on mounts being too expensive etc. Or maybe it could be that sub based games have a population that are already inclined to spend money on the game, so they don't really mind or look twice with $18 outfits and $25 mounts in the shop (FFXIV).

  • If we focus on the message, not on the tone, and the underlying cause of the outrage, i'd say it's justified, I wouldn't tone police or mow down the dissent with ad-hominems, there is a stage 4 malignant cancer in the game industry and it's not just EA.

    I will say this euphemistically first: GW2 is a gold sink, it's a darn toilet for your money.
    Dysphemistically i'll call the microtransaction plot a scam, and a rather succesful one where everyone gets lured and become hooked, without actually much fulfillment and then they need a greater high every time a new skin comes out, it's chasing the dragon, but with your money instead of your skills or accomplishments, aside from collecting cosmetics and grinding for certain items and ascended, there's not much joy in playing this game, the story is bland, many mechanics are inconsistent, there are large aspects of the game that are ABANDONED, many players are moving away too! This may not seem like much to ANET, but it does to players when they lose friends, when friends no-more want to play the game.

    Any questions wether you want to complete maps on each of your characters and do the same over and over for sucky legendaries that at the TP in gold/gem conversion costs you 100$ to save the pain in the kitten? That my friends, 100$ is 2 or 3 games, it's a shiteload of content. Hell, even if you're paying 20, you're not buying DLC or expansions.

    Many mechanics of the game are inconsistent and so many cosmetics we waste money on are too, for example, wouldn't you expect the scientific rifle skin to shoot with a different sound and have a different muzzle effect? Like green for example? It shoots like a musket!
    A chak rifle shoots like a musket.
    A CRYSTAL LASER DRAGON RIFLE, shoots like it's 1800's.

    Also no ROF parameter in a game with guns? So you're saying we have a whole variety of guns that only look different and perform the same? We have guns that look like snipers, guns that look like gatling, etc... ALL THE SAME, it's just screenshot material, share it on facebook, receive likes, sort of like IMVU.

    How about so many inconsistencies that happen underwater? How about picking up underwater areas? They've been largely abandoned over the last two expansions and I remember Angry Joe reviews hailed GW2 for its underwater combat, hell there's no underrwater PVP, no underwater mounts... COME ON! They had that as a gimmick in the very beginning and abandoned it.

    Then as soon as many farm zones become popular, they nerf them because when everyone farms then why will people buy gold? People must buy gems to buy gold wether it's tp or crafting because the grind is unrealistic, painfull, and really not something we would like to be doing every single day... I have friends who stopped playing GW2 for this reason and no ammount of "social" mechanics in the game will make them re-consider... High tier crafting matt grinding and ridiculous achievements, many completionist aspects of the game behind paywalls...

    Mounts are cool and all, but beyond cosmetics isn't there going to be anything else? I can suggest mounted combat, legendary mounts, skins for mounts that are not gem store but rather require some rank... I also foresee in the future the devs will start nerfing all of the fun out of the mounts, more and more no mount areas, invisible walls, etc...

    Mount races are funny too because they are overly simple, throw us a rally where we use the 5 mounts for different tasks, an obstacle course of sorts, make us earn skins there, give us more to strive for, even if it has to be masteries...

    A 2000 gem mount? Come on, that's ridiculous, it's funny that they even try, I think it's a data collection experiment to see what percentile of the players are going to buy it, for more expensive gem purchases in the future, but it's probably going to fail, gems are expensive as they are and people would rather buy more things with their gems than just one over expensive skin... Many people spent more on gems than on the core game day1 with day 1 deluxe HOT and POF when they came out... And with so many people that order the game with the deluxe bundles... Anet should at least be able to adress the issues we players have, invest some of that "hard-earned" budget towards fixes, and implementation of more mechanics, most importantly hire a team to research what makes a game FUN and enjoyable.

    The story isn't that engaging too, and it forces you to be this character you don't envision, and it's licking their OC's kitten, personally I don't like any of them, and then I'm forced to sit through Eirs funeral and bring her flowers? Come on I was happy she died, I hope the whole cast of characters die off eventually, Rytlock and Braham first... The jokes in the story are ANNOYING, the punchlines SUCK! And it looks like we're forced to follow the personality cult of their heroes, we're always outshined by the "smarter" and "cooler" npcs, we even get them as minis, as though they matter, minis by the way are worst, they're BULK FILLER MATERIAL. These NPC's that outshine us, are cringy AF... Really, no big deal but... You're forced to sit through mediocre script, listen to dumb jokes that the devs probably find hilarious... Jokes by the way, can do with a little bit of zing, if you know what I mean, be a little bit more risqué, otherwise it's a bunch of bland inside jokes and oneliners where npcs act like it's funny and you're just praying to god that it soon comes to an end. This has to stop.

    **# It is the customer who pays the wages -Henry Ford. **

  • @Cynz.9437 said:

    @thehipone.6812 said:
    You're seeing the manifestation of an entire generation that grew up getting everything they wanted.

    Talk for yourself please. I have full time job, i earn my money and i used that money to buy the game and game related stuff. Then Anet decided that being creative is stupid and simply nerfed everything i enjoyed to the ground just to add improved version of that stuff with xpac that i have to buy if i want to stay competitive in pvp. Fine, i bought xpac. What happens next? Next xpac comes, they nerf things from previous xpac to force new xpac on me, yet again. I think i have every right to expect semi-balance among classes for the money i paid.

    Also, with HoT they added raids, with PoF another wing. I paid for xpac, I STILL CAN'T RAID WITH MY MAIN CLASS BECAUSE ANET REFUSES TO MAKE THEM USEFUL FOR THE GROUP CONTENT IN PVE. DO I REALLY ASK TOO MUCH?????!!!

    I paid money for this game and i get constantly lied to and experimented on like on lab rat. And then someone like you comes and tells me i am too spoiled? Really? More like gaming companies are too spoiled now and can do anything they want with players by the looks of it.

    I work in IT company, if we added some regular patch that suddenly removed/reduced some features from software at customer side just so we can make them new offer to develop those features again, we would lose every single customer and go bankrupt. But this is EXACTLY what Anet has done with HoT and PoF. I don#t understand how can you even defend some foul marketing strategy.

    Don't worry, it's just there's this deep deep psychological phenomena in a human being that when certain stimulus is delivered, to this gland that resides deep in the rectum, their critical thinking shuts down in favour of protecting the person that delivered them this stimulus from criticisms, I think it's called microtransaction-addiction syndrome. Whereby the afflicted by this terminal mental disease will start to side with the devs that have their shafts deep in their wallets. I wouldn't pay attention to someone who generalizes all dissenters as "spoiled brats"... They become blind to the plights of working class people that earn their money and see a problem with spending it foolishly when they should be putting these resources elsewhere, like starting a family... And if this was politics, we're the conservative side, telling the progressives to examine the cost, but the progressive keep shouting us down "NO, AT ALL COSTS, ALL MEANS ARE JUSTIFIED, OUR CAUSE IS WORTHY, YOU'RE JUST SPOILED BRATS" It's actually kinda funny, there's a lot of mental disease, this is the internet, everything autistic is conceivable heere.

    **# It is the customer who pays the wages -Henry Ford. **

  • Hyper Cutter.9376Hyper Cutter.9376 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @thehipone.6812 said:
    You're seeing the manifestation of an entire generation that grew up getting everything they wanted.

    I don't think too many baby boomers play GW2.

  • Ricky.4706Ricky.4706 Member ✭✭
    edited December 1, 2017

    usually when i get frustrated with the rules of the game, i try to express it on the forums, but lately, I'm getting tired of saying stuff and looking for ways to just move on.
    It seems like a natural progress of after 5 years of asking for something, you are confronted with the idea that the game is just not for me anymore. Can't debate a checkers set into becoming chess. I followed gw2 from gw1 for both pve and pvp content, more pvp - because after i've been there and done that I like to have fun pvp matches, but wvw and pvp is so neglected that it's not enticing for me anymore...and with the rest of the game, been there ...done that with the pve side - less the raids and fractals, but i don't miss that because there's too much elitism there for my idea of fun. I love the artwork, would have been nice to see but the stress that comes with that side is just not fun "for me"

    I anticipate the demands will stop soon.....too many new options coming up in 2018 to be demanding of any 1 developer really. So now I hand out flowers n stuff! tired of making suggestions aka, complaining ....or even trolling to those whom the game has changed for. When the white knight trolls become the righteous path, it's time to leave because a troll is a troll by any other name.

    in summary, I have gw2, but gw2 doesn't have me.

  • If you're unfamiliar of the market, no feedback or lack of feedback from customers is actually a bad thing for the life of the business. When is the next Castlevania coming out? Resident Evil? Warhammer Online? Sonic the Hedgehog? This list could just keep on going. Basically they all at one time had loyal audiences that made them the powerhouses they were, with bad R&D they've all failed to be relevant as they once were. I'm not condoning being mean to the devs, but excluding feedback can actually make your product obsolete.

  • @Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921 said:
    If you're unfamiliar of the market, no feedback or lack of feedback from customers is actually a bad thing for the life of the business

    yes, exactly, so even these posts I'm making are a courtesy of sincerity of being with anet as a player for what...9 years ?.
    Silence is the last button in war. If my comments....criticisms,....suggestions, complaints....rants don't matter then..................

  • @Ricky.4706 said:
    yes, exactly, so even these posts I'm making are a courtesy of sincerity of being with anet as a player for what...9 years ?.
    Silence is the last button in war. If my comments....criticisms,....suggestions, complaints....rants don't matter then..................

    First off you miss the point of even my feedback. People aren't always kind nor do they tell you when they're disappointed. Usually the community dissent can be hidden behind some problems.

    I never said once you shouldn't complain, merely pointing out the feedback isn't bad. And by comparison this quite kind compared to most games forums.

  • Oldirtbeard.9834Oldirtbeard.9834 Member ✭✭✭✭

    My main issue is that MO makes it sound like it's the big ticket spenders bankrolling the content. Where does that leave box buyers that don't buy gem store items is there money not valued, if so make the game F2P. Where does that leave me as someone that spends roughly $100 a month on gems but chooses to not spend it where their projections suggest it should be, does that make my money less appreciated since their marketing doesn't apply to me since I refuse to buy a 2000 gem mount ?

    “The only watchmaker is the blind forces of physics.”
    ― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

  • IndigoSundown.5419IndigoSundown.5419 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Oldirtbeard.9834 said:
    My main issue is that MO makes it sound like it's the big ticket spenders bankrolling the content. Where does that leave box buyers that don't buy gem store items is there money not valued, if so make the game F2P. Where does that leave me as someone that spends roughly $100 a month on gems but chooses to not spend it where their projections suggest it should be, does that make my money less appreciated since their marketing doesn't apply to me since I refuse to buy a 2000 gem mount ?

    Box buyer's money is of course valued. Some box buyers spend for deluxe/ultimate, but everyone pays. Free games generate a lot of churn, meaning players drop in, stay a while, then drop out, but there are almost always new players, some of whom will be big spenders. With a B2P and B2P XPac's, there is less new blood because of the cost to enter, so the box sale revenue is important.

    Meanwhile, the store revenue is important to the game's financial viability over time. The game's population has declined. Many vets have capped utility expenditures like bag and bank slots. So, style items need to produce more revenue because costs have not declined. If anything, costs have increased. Selling style items to bigger spenders is a way to generate some of that needed revenue.

    Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- Santayana

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭

    If they actually put out worthwhile content without constantly making it for the sole purpose of monetization id agree it is not warranted. However they have proven they cant make anything good, the rev is still in shambles. The expansions have been terrible and lacking in worth-while content while other games offer a better experience. The dev's seem to think a "Learn to play" attitude and the "Its a waste of resources" are logical retorts. You could say "Dont like it dont play" but some people really love this game, and the world its in. And to see them kitten all over the first game, the stoyline it and the kitten novels set in place is down right insulting and they deserve to be called out on it.

    As for classes as a whole, eliet specs really are lack luster and really cant at this point sell me on an expansion and probably wont in the future; Raids also cant sell the expansions as it not built for everyone to be capable of doing and is for the "1%" As they said at their inception. No dungeons, no new race, no new class hell not even really well built maps which was a nice addition in HoT. PoF feels like a one and done sort of thing where the only reason you would ever go back once your done is to do living world kitten, we are now some chosen messiah who can kill gods and dragons. At this point people are becoming disconnected from the story because its not about "Suspension of Disbelief" when you literally just kill a god who earlier was one shoting you. Norn had nothing to do with raven in that event, as their god so to speak of death he should of received you not grenth. Charr should of had some stuff about how they dont believe in gods, same with asuran while the humans and sylvari could be all whimsically curious about it.

    They dont care about us, they dont respect us and above all they dont respect their own world OR their own product. One mount skin is twenty five bucks when your entire expansion is worth thirty? So what that tells me is I paid for the mounts, the rest of the kitten is completely obitrary and without purpose or meaning ; which is exactly what that says about their product when something so trivial is so over priced. Which we all know that they priced it like that over being pissy about how we did not want their kitten loot-box system. This karma has been building up since HoT and has been long overdue, they need to buckle up and bring to heat or people are gonna start jumping ship. I think its funny that the new raids are a carbon cut-out of raids from WoW with the same basic mechanics as some of the basic fights, hell even the Tomb of Sargeras and now Antorus have these mechanics. And people are kitten about it; However two years back people were begging for raiding and now that they have honest to goodness raiding they think its too much. People whined and kitten about mounts for years; And now that they have them and its all over-priced and stupid they think its not the best way to handle it.

    So as much as the Dev's are too blame for this craptastrophy; The fanbase and the community is just as much at fault because all they have done is give you what you asked for and what you wanted. For years people ate the steaming pile with a smile on their face and aclaimed them as being the best MMO out there right now, well guess what they think its ok now. Way to go; Now you have to re-educate them about what you as a fanbase will accept and the only way to do that is to vote/talk with your wallet. Frankly after this last steaming pile of an expansion I cant honestly say I will be able to give money on an expansion again, I did not enjoy it or the storyline while I initially did so with them saying no new races will ever happen, no new classes just more of the same I have given up. Im here for the living story now, anything else does not matter as this game seems to have run its course.

  • Lanhelin.3480Lanhelin.3480 Member ✭✭✭

    The harshest criticism would be to to leave silently and to uninstall the game, letting no-one know the reasons. Criticizing something one doesn't like, doesn't mean the whole thing and everything about it is bad or questionable. I still play the game and have fun with it, but I also tell in the forums if I dislike something, ofc to make the devs change it. It wouldn't be fair to them to vote with the wallet only and to remain silent about it. Voting with the wallet alone reduces Dev-Comm-communication into an anonymous money-giving-and-receiving-relationship, which isn't a worthwile relationship I dream of. "Shut up but give me your money" might be an ideal relationship in a pure sell-buy-situation with no customer-support at all, but a MMO is much more.

    Regarding shop we got two statements (one on the official forums, the second citated from reddit) but nothing changed. This teaches, that feedback, how nice and polite or not it may ever be, has no effect at all. Some people may think that issues like these would disappear as time goes by, but regarding pricing I can tell you that I remember this every month when I take a look at income and expenses. This is not a game-only or Dev-only one-direction targeted critique, that would disappear when it's ignored long enough, it has other reasons outside our bubble that keep it alive.

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lome.8239 said:
    Its easy to be a spoiled brat on the internet because they dont think there are any consequences.

    Little do people know, devs from games used to communicate all the time back in the day. Rampant, ungrateful whiners ruined that.

    I think the climate of bugs, DLCs, lootboxes, and other abuses has more to blame for that. Gamers had good faith in the past, and they were respected by developers.

    Now they're lied to and abused all the time. There's a few really consumer-friendly developers out there, and they never have these problems. I wouldn't worry about the whiners too much, the ones who leave without saying a word are much more dangerous.

    @PopeUrban.2578 said:
    It is the job of sellers to identify what products and prices their audience desires.

    It is the job of buyers to inform sellers when they find the product or price unacceptable.

    There is no such thing as "too much criticism" and it is never the fault of the consumer if the seller is attempting to give them a product or price point they don't want. It is the fault of the seller for misunderstanding their market or failing to adapt to it if it changes.

    The players are not ArenaNet employees. They are people Arenanet is selling things to. It is not the responsibility of the players to do anything but honestly evaluate the products or services on offer and decide whether they are value propositions they deem worth their money. If they don't want to buy something, it is in Arenanet's best interests to hear why, as it gives them additional data points to consider when pricing their products in order.

    Products and services do not improve when people have a problem and don't say anything about it. No business has ever done anything because a handful of customers demanded it. All criticism, and especially the reaction of other customers to that is useful in the decision making process.

    This. You're supposed to be consumers, start acting like it. Zealous defense is never good for anything, specially a hobby which could disappear eventually.

    A game without criticism and without feedback is a dead game.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jacuzzi.1643 said:
    Lately there's been a real kitten brewing in OF and reddit with pitchforks and torches and I wanted your thoughts on the matter. I'm not sure whether this anti-dev sentiment is piggybacking from the EA drama or this is a genuine problem with our community. Like Christ, just look at General page 1 there's someone complaining that the new patch changed the daily fractal and another post complaining that items shouldn't take inspiration from real world objects. I don't even want to touch the posts about the 2000 gem mount/RNG lootbox COSMETIC SKINS that have been spammed the last couple days. I get that criticism is important to developer feedback but are we really criticizing or do we just want more things given to us easier?

    Well, at the moment I'm not particularly happy about the way mirage was nerfed. So there's that. But my main issue with GW2 is the pricing structure and the resulting lack of content. I do what I can to support GW2 with Ultimate package expansion purchases and regular gem store purchases. Considering the amount of time I spend playing the game, I feel it's a bargain. But I just want more than their business model seems capable of producing.

    I understand why they have to do it this way. Many players don't play the way I do and their value equation weights cost more heavily than time. A $50 expansion wasn't going to achieve mass appeal with a largely casual, F2P base. It's the same reason GW2 doesn't use a subscription model, which for players like myself produces far better results (if WoW is any indication). Bottom line: I like this game, I want more of it, and I don't mind paying for it. Unfortunately, what I want isn't going to happen and probably shouldn't if we expect the game to be around much longer!

    The mount skins didn't bother me (I've purchased 15 of them so far). The 2000 gem skin seemed a little pricey, but if it had been something I really wanted I would probably have it right now. Honestly, I'm hoping this or some other gimmick they come up with will get some more money flowing in the long-term. Mounts seem very popular and I see a lot of those random skins out there. Despite the anger over RNG, people seem to be buying these skins up. Yeah, you take a chance on getting a skin you don't really like, and you're really gambling if all you want is one specific skin, but I'm hoping that for many players 340-400 gems seems like a pretty reasonable price. For me it was perfect because I was more interested in having a few skins to choose from in each mount type. The low price allowed me to buy more skins and I now have a nice variety to match pretty much any look I might be going for. I fully expect I will purchase a 2000 gem skin at some point, but only if I really love it!

    TL;DR: So, there's the opinion from an atypical GW2 player: Quality of content? Very good! Price/value of content? Also good. Quantity of content, however, needs improvement.

  • ImTasty.2163ImTasty.2163 Member ✭✭✭

    @Rauderi.8706 said:
    I would almost judge the success of a game by the pettiness of its complaints on the forums. :p

    If your biggest problem is "my daily fractal changed" and not "every boss fight is a hail of debilitating crowd control," I'd say you're doing great overall. :star:

    Meanwhile, I suspect the loot box / mount price complaints come from good people who want to throw money at ANet, but don't want to throw that much money. I wish I had the data to comb through, but intuition tells me that anything beyond an 800 gem price point is going to be a harder sell, especially for cosmetics.

    I'll try and find it but there was a thread where someone linked a Reddit comment made by Mike stating that their data shows that they make more profit off the big ticket items than they do the medium to cheap priced items. If I had to guess, the cheaper a product is the more likely people will just farm gold to get it where as the higher the price the more likely they will be to spend actual money.

    At the end of the day though it's just cosmetics so it really doesn't matter if they are expensive or cheap. They don't change the game play any. The worst possible case is that you just don't get some pretty skin. Rather the game keep optional microtransactions like armor and mount skins as they are if it means we can keep getting good content like L4S1 for free.

  • Myrdreth.6829Myrdreth.6829 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 1, 2017

    @ImTasty.2163 said:

    @Rauderi.8706 said:
    I would almost judge the success of a game by the pettiness of its complaints on the forums. :p

    If your biggest problem is "my daily fractal changed" and not "every boss fight is a hail of debilitating crowd control," I'd say you're doing great overall. :star:

    Meanwhile, I suspect the loot box / mount price complaints come from good people who want to throw money at ANet, but don't want to throw that much money. I wish I had the data to comb through, but intuition tells me that anything beyond an 800 gem price point is going to be a harder sell, especially for cosmetics.

    I'll try and find it but there was a thread where someone linked a Reddit comment made by Mike stating that their data shows that they make more profit off the big ticket items than they do the medium to cheap priced items. If I had to guess, the cheaper a product is the more likely people will just farm gold to get it where as the higher the price the more likely they will be to spend actual money.

    At the end of the day though it's just cosmetics so it really doesn't matter if they are expensive or cheap. They don't change the game play any. The worst possible case is that you just don't get some pretty skin. Rather the game keep optional microtransactions like armor and mount skins as they are if it means we can keep getting good content like L4S1 for free.

    you mean this here?

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/18347/mike-obrienss-new-response-to-high-priced-mount-skins/p1

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/7g5ptn/mounts_at_2000_gems_are_not_ok_anet/dqhgald/

  • The only criticism I feel is truly warranted is lack of proper balancing. For all game modes, raids, and everything else the word balance entails. The game has almost everything else going good/right for it, but balance is the wedge that keeps the game from really being great. Things take too long to balance, and nug fixes ruin entire builds overnight with no added fix at the same time to compensate said builds, so diversity suffers greatly here. When the game is less diverse, people will have less options. Not really play your way anymore after that point.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lanhelin.3480 said:
    The harshest criticism would be to to leave silently and to uninstall the game, letting no-one know the reasons.

    Too often however, some people will voice their dislike, only to be shouted down and attacked by other players who disagree with them. This does not make them accept things, it makes them move on quietly, with even less incentive to return, an gives the message to others who may feel the same way to not bother getting involved.

    look at all the hot button issues, it's always the same people back and forth, until.. one of them has determined they have ad enough, and goes silent, that does not mean the talking heads on the forums won anything..it means Anet lost a client.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Magnus Godrik.5841Magnus Godrik.5841 Member ✭✭✭✭

    People just demand too much nowadays. The devs are doing a great job considering. Anet does not have the financial backing that wow, eso and ff14 have, which all have monthly sub fees attached and a cash shop to boot. So there should be no rage towards their business practices. Anet funds the game with xpacs, which don't sell millions, and most importantly the dreaded gem store. For being F2P and allowing you to buy gems with in game gold is a God send. To call them fools, greedy or just plain dumb is ridiculous, we have no idea what's really going on in the background that unfortunately forces them to make these decisions. Would it be better if they just got rid of the gold to gems and strictly went for the cash at a reduced price? Or maybe you would prefer the subscription fees? Or should they get a go fund me and hope people would actually donate some dollars? Bottom line if no money comes in there will be no game.

  • Carighan.6758Carighan.6758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2017

    @Magnus Godrik.5841 said:
    People just demand too much nowadays. The devs are doing a great job considering. Anet does not have the financial backing that wow, eso and ff14 have, which all have monthly sub fees attached and a cash shop to boot. So there should be no rage towards their business practices. Anet funds the game with xpacs, which don't sell millions, and most importantly the dreaded gem store. For being F2P and allowing you to buy gems with in game gold is a God send. To call them fools, greedy or just plain dumb is ridiculous, we have no idea what's really going on in the background that unfortunately forces them to make these decisions. Would it be better if they just got rid of the gold to gems and strictly went for the cash at a reduced price? Or maybe you would prefer the subscription fees? Or should they get a go fund me and hope people would actually donate some dollars? Bottom line if no money comes in there will be no game.

    While I agree 100% with what you're saying, an important question you also implicitly raise is: Why play GW2 is the game has to make concessions and compromises?

    Gaming time is limited, there's hundreds of games, dozens of which can keep you busy for long stretches of time. Even iff "My multiplayer game must be a MMORPG" is a requirement, as you said, games such as WoW or FF14 have larger financial backings. Yes, GW2 does a fair few things different and many of which are interesting, but that was a good reason I came here at release.

    5 years down the line, virtually all bigger underlying problems are still around. The solved one is inventory wars, consume-all, un-IDed items and mass-salvage together have fixed that. And not to cheapen the effort, I always called it the biggest problem GW2 has, because it physically damaged players' bodies. And it's a kitten cool thing that it got solved.

    That being said, even then the fix is a combination of bandaids, and all the other things are left untreated. 5 years ago, this was a game of insane potential displaying one of the best on-release efforts the MMORPG industry has ever seen. Nowadays it is a game of wasted potential (because let's be honest, it's not going to happen anymore). They haven't even done reworks for the classes! Something you'd expect to happen round about every xpack, one per class, or staggered in-between. Nope. Best we got was that trait rework, and while it was a cool change it mostly changed the flavour of the problem, it didn't even attempt to fix the underlying issues (excessive fake-choices due to trivialized impact, overloaded combat mechanics and systems made worse by an overloaded and overburdened trait system, lack of clarity, lack of purpose).

    Of course, for a game which costs nothing it is a bit unfair to criticize all of this. But in the end, as someone said before, it's easy to stop playing a game. I find myself playing he game extremely little, despite how good (on paper) the new release is. But well, there's just too many annoying design missteps in GW2. And dozens upon dozens of other, much more well-designed games, vying for the little gaming time I have.

  • The community is demanding and complaining too much. The latter is common anyway. There are many developments in the gaming industry in general that I would criticize. As GW2 players however we are quite lucky with having a great, fun game that works. Players seem to have very little tolerance for things that can go wrong and tend to forget the other 95% that are perfectly fine. People (in general) should be more grateful and show some respect to the people who create this game.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2017

    @Jacuzzi.1643 said:
    Is current developer criticism warranted or are we just demanding too much?

    Actually, many people are demanding less, but instead we constantly get stuff added that we did not ask for and that takes away the fun: a dozen different methods of acquiring ascended and legendary gear now (I have lost track and interest), a bombardment with new currencies every few months (soon my wallet will look like a waste dumb, my storage already does), increasingly difficult to navigate maps (we get mounts, yet access to new places is often limited to one way), too many mobs (which reduces your playtime to fighting 95% of the time), and too much pseudo-epic combat missions (at some point you go "Yawn..." instead of "Yay!").

    [Edit: Then there is the Gem Store development too, of course, but that's a topic of its own.]

    A MMO is supposed to feel like home, a familiar place of awe and wonders in which you can immerse your mind and get away from reality for a while, not like school where you are either present each day to be able to keep up with the new learning matter or drop out. I know of many people who quit GW2 because of this development, and I am getting sick and tired of it myself (I couldn't even bring myself to finish the latest LW episode, which has been out for six days now).

  • Leo G.4501Leo G.4501 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Carighan.6758 said:
    While I agree 100% with what you're saying, an important question you also implicitly raise is: Why play GW2 is the game has to make concessions and compromises?

    Wow, with all the talk about free market and competition, you'd figure people would know why they wouldn't ever need to ask this question.

    @Carighan.6758 said:
    Gaming time is limited, there's hundreds of games, dozens of which can keep you busy for long stretches of time. Even iff "My multiplayer game must be a MMORPG" is a requirement, as you said, games such as WoW or FF14 have larger financial backings. Yes, GW2 does a fair few things different and many of which are interesting, but that was a good reason I came here at release.

    5 years down the line, virtually all bigger underlying problems are still around. The solved one is inventory wars, consume-all, un-IDed items and mass-salvage together have fixed that. And not to cheapen the effort, I always called it the biggest problem GW2 has, because it physically damaged players' bodies. And it's a kitten cool thing that it got solved.

    That being said, even then the fix is a combination of bandaids, and all the other things are left untreated. 5 years ago, this was a game of insane potential displaying one of the best on-release efforts the MMORPG industry has ever seen. Nowadays it is a game of wasted potential (because let's be honest, it's not going to happen anymore). They haven't even done reworks for the classes! Something you'd expect to happen round about every xpack, one per class, or staggered in-between. Nope. Best we got was that trait rework, and while it was a cool change it mostly changed the flavour of the problem, it didn't even attempt to fix the underlying issues (excessive fake-choices due to trivialized impact, overloaded combat mechanics and systems made worse by an overloaded and overburdened trait system, lack of clarity, lack of purpose).

    Ok. I feel it's important to acknowledge that it's quite simple to look at problems and demand solutions, and it's even easier to say "be careful what you wish for". The tough thing to consider is, yes there are problems, but are they acceptable flaws? Because when you start messing with stuff, you can screw it up worse. And before you say "then you should think it through and test it a lot!" however that doesn't always work. You may end up with a solution that barely affects anything, is hated and cost lots of manpower to implement in the process...or you could end up with something that changes up a lot of things, is adored and hated and likely will require many more manhours to manage later.

    You say the trait rework was the best we got while ignoring all the other changes to profession mechanics, skills and so forth not to mention the tweeking of traits and how the overall effectiveness of the traits improved them as choices.

    Basically, what I'm saying is that no, we don't need class reworks. Some traits could use tweeking, but your issue is change for changes' sake.

    I feel, drastic alterations to the core game at this point can do more harm than good. Similar to how the whole condi stacking has now caused so many more problems (seriously, they didn't need to make stacking unlimited, they just needed to make multiple condi player's condis stack, like keep bleeding to 25 stacks per player) and now we have to shuffle around power, add boons, improve cleansing, all for that 1 change (technically 2 changes, since some condis couldn't stack intensity back then).

    Like I mentioned before, criticize the devs, make it harsh too and invite discussion on the subject! But we should all be prepared to face the same level of criticism as well.

  • Droughboi.2945Droughboi.2945 Member ✭✭
    edited December 4, 2017

    I think people are just crybabies. EA is so different from the whole skin issue. EA locked full blown characters and gameplay experiences behind loot box gambling with an abysmally low chance at the characters you wanted. Legit pay to win. Their alternative was to put in 60+ hrs for a single character.

    GW2 is just skins..... SKINS. I'm sorry, but you having a shiny Griffin is not that important. Oh, That mount is expensive? Don't buy it; or work for it. Hell you can even go halfsies with money and gold. Ultimately It's still a raptor. Now if they added a new mount entirely that was for a ton of gems only, then it'd be an issue, but it's not. You can even trade gold for gems so you don't even have to spend that much cash.

    EA is just a greedy poop stain of a company. ANet is trying to keep sustainable revenue over the lifetime of its MMO without utterly destroying the game.

    Don't compare the two. It's just disrespectful.

  • Cynz.9437Cynz.9437 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Droughboi.2945 said:
    I think people are just crybabies. EA is so different from the whole skin issue. EA locked full blown characters and gameplay experiences behind loot box gambling with an abysmally low chance at the characters you wanted. Legit pay to win. Their alternative was to put in 60+ hrs for a single character.

    GW2 is just skins..... SKINS. I'm sorry, but you having a shiny Griffin is not that important. Oh, That mount is expensive? Don't buy it; or work for it. Hell you can even go halfsies with money and gold. Ultimately It's still a raptor. Now if they added a new mount entirely that was for a ton of gems only, then it'd be an issue, but it's not. You can even trade gold for gems so you don't even have to spend that much cash.

    EA is just a greedy poop stain of a company. ANet is trying to keep sustainable revenue over the lifetime of its MMO without utterly destroying the game.

    Don't compare the two. It's just disrespectful.

    They nerfed builds from core/HoT (that playeds paid for) so they can sell PoF. This is not just skins, they made pvp/wvw pay2win and i think the critique is more than justified there.

    GW is P2Win. We are always lied to.

  • @Cynz.9437 said:

    @Droughboi.2945 said:
    I think people are just crybabies. EA is so different from the whole skin issue. EA locked full blown characters and gameplay experiences behind loot box gambling with an abysmally low chance at the characters you wanted. Legit pay to win. Their alternative was to put in 60+ hrs for a single character.

    GW2 is just skins..... SKINS. I'm sorry, but you having a shiny Griffin is not that important. Oh, That mount is expensive? Don't buy it; or work for it. Hell you can even go halfsies with money and gold. Ultimately It's still a raptor. Now if they added a new mount entirely that was for a ton of gems only, then it'd be an issue, but it's not. You can even trade gold for gems so you don't even have to spend that much cash.

    EA is just a greedy poop stain of a company. ANet is trying to keep sustainable revenue over the lifetime of its MMO without utterly destroying the game.

    Don't compare the two. It's just disrespectful.

    They nerfed builds from core/HoT (that playeds paid for) so they can sell PoF. This is not just skins, they made pvp/wvw pay2win and i think the critique is more than justified there.

    Nah. For the first time, I'm donning the knight armour. They Nerf and buff stuff no matter what and people wouldve bought or declined the purchase of the expansion regardless of balance changes. New specs definitely mean things are going to change. It has to in order for them to properly fit. It's just basic game design at that point.

  • witcher.3197witcher.3197 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2017

    If wanting to have at least a few skins tied to ingame content in a game that's about cosmetic endgame, is "demanding too much", then I don't think we have a bright future ahead of us.

    It seems as GW2 grows it somehow gets smaller in scope, dropping nearly everything that got people hooked back in the day (dungeons, pvp, wvw, guild content, jumping puzzles for the most part, etc) meanwhile the balance of ingame and gemstore skins are getting worse and worse. This is not fine, and if we play along then we just help Anet go towards a cliff.

  • TheQuickFox.3826TheQuickFox.3826 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Big part of the criticism has been the pricing: EUR/USD 120 for the full mount skin pack and EUR/USD 25 for cherrypicking one from the store. And seeing how the company tries to defend their pricing and release the EUR/USD 25 peacock mount they don't seem to learn nor listen too much to the community.

    But well. We're 'mounting' dead horses here. I guess they will keep their pricing model for some time to lure everyone in for high prices and over time lower them to maximize profits.

    Ascalon Will Prevail!

    GW Wiki user page | GW2 Wiki user page

  • FOX.3582FOX.3582 Member ✭✭✭

    We demand too much of the wrong stuff.

  • I think we always demand too much cause we too passionate about the game. Like too many unfair mechanics in raids and fractals is a fair assessment cause the death metrics at the servers must be thru the roof on that.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2017

    @Lambros Augustus.6594 said:
    I think we always demand too much cause we too passionate about the game.

    I don't think so. As I stated in my previous comment, the game is going in the wrong direction. You can be a fan boy/girl about it and don't allow yourself to see the negative developments, or you can be a realist and be honest about it. I prefer the latter.

    The other day, I watched the interviews the head writer (and one of the two execs) of the show "Enterprise", Brannon Braga, gave in the special features of the blu-ray collection, and he was mercilessly honest about the things that were done wrong during the course of the show -- a lot was due to the pressure of the studio that didn't understand their vision nor cared about it, but instead insisted on old Star Trek clichés being fulfilled, even when it ruined the product, and for some of it he fully blames himself to this day. I believe this kind of honest self-reflection is something ANet is lacking completely, maybe due to not having the necessary distance to their product in order to see the things we criticize are truly existent issues in GW2 and are ruining the product; or maybe because some people responsible for the decisions made are just like those studio bosses, and that is most unfortunate, because, in the end, numbers do not reflect the quality of your product -- your long-time customers' feedback does.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2017

    @FOX.3582 said:
    We demand too much of the wrong stuff.

    Then players need stop demmanding pve stuff, and stop wanting everything free or at extreme low prices, and start to ask for decent pvp and better classes design that arent only based to carry players in pve stuff.

    Unless its the pvp players that need to stop asking for decent pvp and let the pvp keep being influeced and designed for the pver'rs ...

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cuddy.6247 said:
    The problem with the price setting on ANet's end started at conception with the gold-gem transfer. There are several reasons why gold sellers are frowned upon, one reason is their impact on the in-game economy, and then ANet went and made themselves their own gold seller with gems.

    Now there's a ton of gold in the game. So even if they "double" sales by reducing price, a lot of people will be able to acquire the gold to buy without RMT. It's a huge problem on their end.

    You don't understand how the gems<->gold exchange works.
    Hint: it doesn't create any gems or gold (it even removes gold from the economy). Anet's not losing on it.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • yefluke.3168yefluke.3168 Member ✭✭
    edited December 5, 2017

    They can not please anyone btw, someone will love it or hate it.
    The game's price itself for me is quite cheap (and the micro transaction are quite acceptable tho). i'm not expect excellent / top notch quality game for this price at all.

  • kurfu.5623kurfu.5623 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2017

    People being critical of something they care about is a good thing.

    The time to start worrying is when people no longer care enough to register their concerns, and simply move on to something else.

    This is my signature. It is not very exciting.

  • Asking to be treated with decency and not like walking wallets is not too much. ANet, like many other companies, ha started to push the microtransacations to see how far they can get. It's sad but it's the reality. People just need to push back hard enough so that the end compromise is bearable. It will still suck, but meh.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SkyFallsInThunder.8257 said:
    Asking to be treated with decency and not like walking wallets is not too much. ANet, like many other companies, ha started to push the microtransacations to see how far they can get. It's sad but it's the reality. People just need to push back hard enough so that the end compromise is bearable. It will still suck, but meh.

    I don't see that anything has changed. The cash shop was there before and it's there now. The items in question are purely cosmetic. What's the difference? As far as I can tell, the difference is that there are a lot of players used to paying nothing by converting gold to gems, but it simply isn't feasible to do so when you need thousands of gems to get what you want as opposed to a few hundred. Some of those players will balk at the price, but I expect a lot of them are biting the bullet and buying gems with cash when they aren't normally inclined to do so.

    If those assumptions are anywhere close to accurate, ANet should have some success selling these skins. I know myself and many of my guild mates have purchased 10 or more of the random skins. I know fewer players who have purchased the 2000 gem skins, but if they're anything like me they're just waiting for one they really love to show up.

  • Chadramar.8156Chadramar.8156 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2017

    Throwing all sorts of criticism into one pot and treating it all the same isn't constructive. As for the criticism about the mount lootbox fiasco (and the more under-the-radar account-bound items in BLCs)? Harsh criticism about that is more than deserved. The game industry is unregulated and unchecked in some really crappy ways, and it's becoming less and less about quality products and customer satisfaction and more and more about wringing every bleeding cent out of the p(l)ayers in the name of shareholder value. And far too many people lap it all up, or worse, complain a bit and then lap it all up anyway instead of being willing or able to draw a line somewhere, anywhere.

    It's undeniable that some really shady and BS business practices have become acceptable and then established to the point of being apparently obligatory (because shareholder value) over the recent years. I'm not saying that Back In The Day(TM) there were no bad games, no buggy games, no hackjobs. But you couldn't have pulled the current-day nonsense without a slow decline of standards. Remember the almost proverbial horse armor DLC? It's not always just EA pushing the limits. This has been a slow slippery slope with many companies adding their grease, and we haven't even reached rock bottom yet. Nor will it stop until change is forced. Holding still will never accomplish that.

  • blambidy.3216blambidy.3216 Member ✭✭✭

    As much as people complain there is bad. This game outways the bad and is far greater then what people think. This game is still more fluid to play in PvP. The exploration in this game is still gorgeous. There are just so much in this game people don’t realize that if you go to a diff mmo you will miss gw2 to the fullest and come back. Even if the other mmo is a great one.

    Right now arenanet has a lot in plate. Just finished pof. And released living world season 4 ep 1. Added raid which I told people it will happen. They asked for dungeon. Well they do not understand arenanet added fractal. Which is a new type of dungeon. And added other things. Pretty soon they will add more in living world season 4. And pretty soon they are gonna add winters day celebration.

    They gave mounts.
    New maps.
    New masteries.
    New raid.
    New fractal.
    NEw elites.
    New human faces.
    Skins.
    Elona crafting.
    New collections.

    I think it’s time to applaud arenanet for their great success. And giving the community what we wanted. There are more things what we also could have but that is what another expansion is for.

  • Zionka.6897Zionka.6897 Member ✭✭✭

    GW2 is an amazing game, that's why we are playing it. People who expect perfection are drawn to it. Show me one single game out there that's perfect in all things, that couldn't use some improvement in an area, and I'll ask why are you here then? The devs have done such a fantastic job here, that one little mis-step or balance issue sticks out like a sore thumb, and draws a lot of attention to itself. Yes, we are spoiled. They can't cater to every individual's ideas on how things should be. They do the best they can, and I, for one, think they get criticized too much for what we've been given.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think the main problem with the game is that feels like it has no vision, no direction. It's like, there is whole lot of "Ok lets try this" as opposed to "thi was our intention all along" .. and I hate to say it.. but thats really killing this game.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Nord.1492Nord.1492 Member ✭✭

    Arenanet is one of the most talented companys ive ever seen, with less than 300 employees to make such a BIG and complex MMO like gw2 is extremly respectable.
    BUT some of the teams, are not really interested in the game and working counterproductive, they are not doing their work properly as they should, without any direction, thats what i feel. Thats what the people are angry and mad about. And anet says nothing about it, and their mistakes, what brings more anger.

    The chief from the marketing team posted some days ago, and asked for help if the team could do things better. Thats a really good decision in the right direction.

    Have you ever seen the Balance Team asked for help, for some dead classes? How to fix them? Make them better playable? No? Me too.

    Here are some facts, numbers in Million USD.

    * 2016 - 2015 - 2014 - 2013 - 2012

    * 67,86 - 91,81 - 78,10 - 108,7 - 153,2

    2017 could be a better year bec. of the addon, like 2015 HoT. Is it enough? Could be, i dont know. Is it scary to lose 50%+ money? Indeed.
    They need to wake up and sort some black sheeps out, who dont want to make this game better.

  • Leo G.4501Leo G.4501 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    I think the main problem with the game is that feels like it has no vision, no direction. It's like, there is whole lot of "Ok lets try this" as opposed to "thi was our intention all along" .. and I hate to say it.. but thats really killing this game.

    Could you give some examples? Just so I can grasp exactly what you mean.

    Closest I can come to is, in City of Heroes, I guess one could say its "vision" was a super-powered character creator/simulator as you could adapt various concepts to their archetype system and customize look, playstyle, powers, power colors/animations to your liking...and I suppose Blade and Soul is a reaction-based, fighting game-esque MMO whose vision is simulating an online fighting game with complex guard/counter/escape mechanics with tighter focus on 1v1.

    Is that what you mean?

  • Dovienya.6597Dovienya.6597 Member ✭✭✭

    It's a mix.

    Some complaints are appalling and nonsensical, others carry a fair basis of logical concern.

    Please do not dismiss all consumer complaints as ingratitude and entitlement. You speak of behavior that can bite everyone's behind, yours is one of them. Listing complaints of all caliber, dripping with hyperbole and offering no context, then polling/trolling whether they are legit is extremely disingenuous.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leo G.4501 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    I think the main problem with the game is that feels like it has no vision, no direction. It's like, there is whole lot of "Ok lets try this" as opposed to "thi was our intention all along" .. and I hate to say it.. but thats really killing this game.

    Could you give some examples? Just so I can grasp exactly what you mean.

    Just to give one example: Exotic Gear. Easy to get, and removes the grind, allows players to just get in and play the game, focusing on cosmetics as opposed to generic MMO style stat grind. Even Legendary Weapons wee just exotic weapon stats. Then they add in Ascended, and then they add in stat swap on Legendary weapons. That did not feel like it was the plan all along, it felt like a reaction to pressure as opposed to staying with their original vision.

    Dungeons. They have this feel of "Well we tried this" and Fractals feel like "Ok, so Dungeons were a bad idea, lets try this instead" they don't feel like this was the plan all long, they feel like an experiment to see what works and what doesn't, some things are better then others, but even the good ideas, there is this feel that it was more a test or a throwing out of an idea, then visionary building with direction and purpose.

    Case in point. LS/LW, feels like there is a whole story here, you can see parts unfold from one story to the next, things set up in previous chapters coming to fruition later in the story. It feels like there was always a direction and a vision behind the story.

    That feeling is not there with a lot of the other things they clunked, cobbled and kludge in.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • When it comes to pvp/wvw, the criticism is completely warranted. We are not demanding too much. We are demanding a certain amount of work to make the modes balanced, and have continued interest. This would still require a fraction of the amount of work that has gone into pve. As it stands now, they do the least amount to keep what dwindling player base there is interested. I mean, 1 new WvW map in 5 years? Common. Think about all the new maps, stories, programming, raids, guild halls, fractals, voice acting, animation, that has gone into pve. Yes, DBL was a mess on release. They knew that. Except for the people that never wanted a new map, all the criticism about HoT was spot on. Eventually, they fixed it by implementing the changes people asked for, and beyond, but lost a lot of players in the process. We want better. Own that. Do better. You're not going to retain players by doing the minimum. Don't be afraid to make a new map cause you might drive people away. Just don't release a disaster. Listen to the community during the beta and be prepared to make changes. A WvW map is just one example. Do more, and do it well, and people will stay and come back.

    Regarding pve criticism, I think it's just nit picking, but a lot of the criticism that is there can still be helpful. Perhaps it's the perception that there's a lot of nit-picking seems like a lot, but I don't see too much regarding the actual core of the game.

  • @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    I recognize the need for income. Free things are awesome, but there's no such thing as a free lunch. If there's something I want but cannot afford, I simply resolve myself to not get that thing. If there's something I want but can afford, I buy it.

    Perhaps I started a little late in the game, but I've noticed several times after spending all day on a map, I really have nothing to show for it other than a few scraps and it costs me a fortune with all the microtransactions such as traveling to wavepoints, salvaging exotic items only to get a brick of mithral, listing fees, selling fees, etc. At the end of the day I pretty much break even.

    By the way, I do like pretty things but since its so expensive I need to think twice.

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