Why the legendary ring being locked behind raids is okay. — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Why the legendary ring being locked behind raids is okay.

So I've seen alot of discussion about the new legendary trinket and how it's unfair for arenanet to lock it behind raids, and I just wanted to throw out my opinion on it

Legendary trinkets were introduced into the community pretty recently, and their inclusion was met with overall positivity. The very first legendary trinket was implemented to be earned almost solely through living world season three, and it was once again met with overwhelming positivity.

So what's different about the new legendary ring? It's another legendary trinket locked behind a specific aspect of the game, raids in this case, but it's caused a far greater outrage from the community then the trinket that was attached solely to living world season 3... The complaints all stem from one simple argument, the legendary trinket shouldn't be locked behind a game mode that isn't accessible to the while community, and shouldn't be made exclusive to those who raid.

I completely disagree with this argument for a few reasons, and these are the reasons I think it's okay for the trinket to be locked behind raids

1.its one out of five trinkets to come... The first trinket was locked behind living world season three maps, and is something I'll never have the desire to work for, and we can assume all five of them will come from different areas of the game . One from the living world , one from raids, one from PvP , one from fractals,ect. So why is it such a problem to everyone that one comes from raids?

  1. This is probably more controversial and where I'll lose most of you, but raids are completely accessible to everyone who plays the game. Not WANTING to raid does not equal not being ABLE to raid. We can all raid. Everyone who currently raids started from nothing as well.if the new legendary ring is something you Truely want, there's nothing stopping you from putting in the effort to get it yourself.

People have been saying it's not okay to lock one legendary trinket behind an area of the game they don't play, while simultaneously failing to look at the fact the first legendary trinket was also locked behind an area of the game that some people don't play as well. I seen in one post someone say, .... This ring belongs to the living world map... Well, the first trinket belonged to the living world. The second belongs to raids, the third maybe to WvW, the fourth maybe to fotm.

Before bashing arenanet, and telling them they're shooting there own foot, take a step back to look at the system, the implementations of the trinkets so far, and what's to come for the remainder of the legendary trinket set.

Before complaining that you'll never be able to get it, ask yourself how much it means to you, and if it really means enough to you, you'll have it in no time I promise you.. I never thought I'd raid, but here I am recently finishing my legendary armor. It's accessible to all of us if it means enough to you ..

I hope this post does some good somewhere in the community thanks for reading.

Main ranger: Adalyn Del Rayna. Plz stop saying raids are toxic.. raids are what you make them

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Comments

  • Rysdude.3824Rysdude.3824 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I agree you with OP, except the difference I see is the environment to obtain it. Aurora, while a grind like legendary weaponry, could pretty much be done on one's own pace when they want to work on it. Raids, on the other hand, are quite toxic because of the amount of kitten talking, bashing, etc that one has to put up with when pugging. Not to mention that it needs 9 other players to complete. Find some friends you say? Or join a guild? Thats great for those that can devote a substantial amount of time to GW2 to make friends and make a worthwhile impact to an active guild. For those that don't have time, or must afk quite a bit for RL, i.e. kids or spouses, this is a harder issue to overcome. Aurora let us do it at our own pace and when we could. In order to get the ring, you're at the whim of other players. I'm not going to mention the level of skill needed (or "forced" profession you need to play to not get kicked from a PUG) in raids because we all know how that goes.
    I totally agree that Raids deserve their own prestige. Just not sure legendary trinkets was the right choice.

  • meeflak.9714meeflak.9714 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 1, 2017

    @Rysdude.3824 said:
    I agree you with OP, except the difference I see is the environment to obtain it. Aurora, while a grind like legendary weaponry, could pretty much be done on one's own pace when they want to work on it. Raids, on the other hand, are quite toxic because of the amount of kitten talking, bashing, etc that one has to put up with when pugging. Not to mention that it needs 9 other players to complete. Find some friends you say? Or join a guild? Thats great for those that can devote a substantial amount of time to GW2 to make friends and make a worthwhile impact to an active guild. For those that don't have time, or must afk quite a bit for RL, i.e. kids or spouses, this is a harder issue to overcome. Aurora let us do it at our own pace and when we could. In order to get the ring, you're at the whim of other players. I'm not going to mention the level of skill needed (or "forced" profession you need to play to not get kicked from a PUG) in raids because we all know how that goes.
    I totally agree that Raids deserve their own prestige. Just not sure legendary trinkets was the right choice.

    Addig a legendary trinket to raids gives raider's a legendary trinket to work towards, like I mentioned we can safely assume all aspects of the game will get your own. It's just a legendary trinket that the raiding community can work towards in the content they play, just like a WvW trinket would be content the wvw players could work towards. Legendary trinkets are a completely acceptable raid reward because we will have four other trinkets spread throughout the game that we can work towards that don't touch raids at all, it's a completely fair system.

    Like I said, raids may not be something everyone plays, so people may think that makes it unfair, but people aren't looking at the fact that people also don't play the other content in the game, I personally refuse to spend that much time in LW and I'll never craft Aurora . As I'm sure many others would refuse to. I'll never earn a single bit of progress towards a WvW trinket, and I most likely wouldn't work towards a PvP trinket. So it's nice that we will get one in so many different areas of the game, so players have one attached to the content they enjoy. Do you see my point there ?

    Main ranger: Adalyn Del Rayna. Plz stop saying raids are toxic.. raids are what you make them

  • Murdock.6547Murdock.6547 Member ✭✭✭

    I respectfully disagree with 2, although I agree with your statement otherwise.
    People DO want to raid, but they don't want to be raiders.

    Nobody bothers to research fights other than googling and following guides with little genuine understanding.
    This is most apparent while pugging. People will do no updraft gorse even if their dps is abysmal for it, but if they can't no updraft they just ignore gorseval...
    People will try and 3burn kc but won't even attempt to do the side mechanics if they can't burn fast enough.

    And I don't mean this to be insulting, because that's simply how it is. It's a fair and reasonable thing for the average player to look up what works and emulate it.
    Why even question how the car drives when it's been running just fine for years using the same fuel? You're in a difficult situation if your car stalls, but if it doesn't then everything is daisies.

    There's also those with slow reflexes, poor vision, and genuine learning disabilities. Who, try as they might, cannot get past certain more difficult content in this game.
    They have my sympathy/empathy.. but at the same time, raiders need nice things too. Raids are hard, give them something shiny for doing hard stuff.

  • meeflak.9714meeflak.9714 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 1, 2017

    @Murdock.6547 said:
    I respectfully disagree with 2, although I agree with your statement otherwise.
    People DO want to raid, but they don't want to be raiders.

    Nobody bothers to research fights other than googling and following guides with little genuine understanding.
    This is most apparent while pugging. People will do no updraft gorse even if their dps is abysmal for it, but if they can't no updraft they just ignore gorseval...
    People will try and 3burn kc but won't even attempt to do the side mechanics if they can't burn fast enough.

    And I don't mean this to be insulting, because that's simply how it is. It's a fair and reasonable thing for the average player to look up what works and emulate it.
    Why even question how the car drives when it's been running just fine for years using the same fuel? You're in a difficult situation if your car stalls, but if it doesn't then everything is daisies.

    There's also those with slow reflexes, poor vision, and genuine learning disabilities. Who, try as they might, cannot get past certain more difficult content in this game.
    They have my sympathy/empathy.. but at the same time, raiders need nice things too. Raids are hard, give them something shiny for doing hard stuff.

    Unfortunately there's always a hard battle to be faught when looking at disabilities and impairment, and I must say that was overlooked when I posted this . My heart goes out to them. "People do want to raid but they don't want to be raiders" is the mind set I tried addressing though. That's still a personal decision for them , to not learn the fights, the mechanics, and to put in the effort they need to to development a good understanding of the fights, in this sense, they do not want to raid, they do not want to do what is the necessary effort to raid when they could ,with effort. do what is necessary . When I started raiding less then a year ago ( I've been apart of the community since launch) I was able to devote less then 10 hours a week to gw. Usually around 5 hours. I'm still on a similar schedule , but I was able to put in the effort necessary to learn the raids and to learn my class and to join some training runs and get the experience I need. I did it all through pugs on the lfg . It can easily be done by anyone who wants to do it.

    But saying they don't want to be raiders doesn't excuse them from bashing arenanet, or bashing raids and raid rewards

    Main ranger: Adalyn Del Rayna. Plz stop saying raids are toxic.. raids are what you make them

  • meeflak.9714meeflak.9714 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 1, 2017

    @Rennie.6750 said:
    If you're fine with putting up with the constant stream of BS that comes out of raider's mouthes or fingers in GW2 then good on you. Personally I'm not into that kind of thing. I've been into hardcore raiding for a long time, probably for too long, and right now I'm done with all the drama, complaints or the frustration that comes with learning a new encounter and dealing with 9 other players doing so. I refuse to have someone else dictating my schedule and what I should play a given day, and of course pugs have ridiculous expectations for this kind of content. I've seen 100 Li requirements for escort or Cairn lol.

    The problem isn't dealing with the difficulty, it's dealing with the raiding "community". They're simply not fun to be with, their company isn't enjoyable, and their expectations are about as high as the mediocrity of the average raider. Not my thing. However, since ANet thinks I do not need any additional long-term goals then fine, at some point I'll end up with nothing at all to do and it will be time to move on to other games, there's nothing wrong with that.

    And here again you complained about arenanet adding content that you won't attain, while failing to look at the first legendary trinket or the ones to come out after this one.... you're content with complaining about a piece of content you admit to having no Desire to obtain. This is on you, and that's totally fine ! Just as it's fine I have no desire to obtain aurora. More trinkets will come out, not tied to raids that you'll be able to look forward to earning. Why so you feel the need to cut down arenanet and the raiding community for having a trinket of there own.

    You spent a great deal of the first part complaining specifically about the raid community, but you also don't mention what YOU can do to combat your concerns. Forming your own groups for instance. I think alot of our company is enjoyable =/ don't pass judgment on a whole community based off some bad experiences, and don't associate all groups expectations with the expectations of a few... There are plenty training runs, semi experienced runs, low LI or just a simple link of kp.. how much effort have you honestly put into seeking these groups out ? Making friends with similar expectations ? I'll assume not too much . Because like I've said in this post I'm solely a pugger, and was able to cater my own experiences around my personal expectations by forming my own groups, running my own training and joining groups that had similar expectations to my own.

    Edit: and even looking past everything I just said. You've in no way provided any constructive argument to why it's not okay for arenanet to add 1 of 5 legendary trinkets to raids. You've not given any valid argument as to why it's NOT okay for a raid trinket. But it is okay for if LW trinket, or an fotm trinket, or a WvW tinket.

    There will always be people outside of all of these communities that will never desire to earn the rewards, and it's a completely fair system to implement them throughout the different areas of the game

    Main ranger: Adalyn Del Rayna. Plz stop saying raids are toxic.. raids are what you make them

  • I would like to add some precision on the "raid arent attainable for everyone".

    Most of the time, ai can summarize what I read by "it is too difficult for the average player", "it is too time consuming for the average player", "all groups require experience to join, so you can't learn from zero".

    1. "It is too difficult"
      It isnt. Seriously. Stop saying that. Everyone has the capacity the raid given you are willing to learn the machenics and accept thr fact that you're gonna be messing up a lot at first. After that, you don't to everything well 100% of the time with 100% optimal DPS to kill a boss. Not even close.

    2. "It is too time consuming"
      The again, it isnt. 2-5 hours a weeks and that should do. You dont need to be an expert raider to do a good job. Just be remotely aware of what you're doing. Do you think spending 2-5 hours a week is too much for a legendary ? Then how do you want to craft ANY legendary?

    3. "You need experience to join groups"
      That is true. On LFG. LFG is toxic and it has always been, way before raids were released. Luckily for you, there are other options: join a guild. Now I hear you thinking that joining a raiding guild is time consuming and that they generally are toxic. That isnt true at all. Some guilds will be, but most of them are happy to let a new raider join in, at your own time. Some of em specifically run training groups ! And some of them will even take time to teach you personnally.

    There is absolutely NO REASON to say that raiding isnt possible for everyone. You just don't want to do the minimal effort required to do it.

  • maxwelgm.4315maxwelgm.4315 Member ✭✭✭

    Now I like raids but none of that makes sense. Do raids even need more incentive in the form of rewards, than it already has? I don't think it does, we already get plenty of unique skins and the only unique skin legendary armors. I'd even go as far as saying we get too much unique rewards for a mode that is about challenging yourself after the rest of the game becomes too easy. More incentive is only going to bring in reluctant people, which is the problem currently going on in PvP.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The reason isn't a full page spread, it's very simple: The legendary ring is not offering a boost in performance above ascended trinkets. It doesn't even give you a cosmetic 'advantage'.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • meeflak.9714meeflak.9714 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 1, 2017

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    The reason isn't a full page spread, it's very simple: The legendary ring is not offering a boost in performance above ascended trinkets. It doesn't even give you a cosmetic 'advantage'.

    This is another good reason it's okay but one I left out because it's not a focal point for many arguments , thanks for including it, though, it has slipped my mind since I wrote this <3

    Main ranger: Adalyn Del Rayna. Plz stop saying raids are toxic.. raids are what you make them

  • meeflak.9714meeflak.9714 Member ✭✭✭

    @Shiyo.3578 said:
    raids should give 0 special rewards besides achievements.

    If raids aren't popular, then they should stop development on them. Shoving shiny rewards into content people OBVIOUSLY wouldn't want to do if they are not popular without said shiny, shows they are a gigantic waste of development time and money :)

    It's not a waste of development time and money, you can check my comment history to go back a few comments and look at a longer reply I had to this mind set, but In short. Raids(and fractals) are probably the most replayed content in gw2, and the rewards given to the players for investing time into the content do belong there and are a good pay off for the people who make arenanets development time, Truely worth it .

    Main ranger: Adalyn Del Rayna. Plz stop saying raids are toxic.. raids are what you make them

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Rysdude.3824 said:
    I agree you with OP, except the difference I see is the environment to obtain it. Aurora, while a grind like legendary weaponry, could pretty much be done on one's own pace when they want to work on it. Raids, on the other hand, are quite toxic because of the amount of kitten talking, bashing, etc that one has to put up with when pugging. Not to mention that it needs 9 other players to complete. Find some friends you say? Or join a guild? Thats great for those that can devote a substantial amount of time to GW2 to make friends and make a worthwhile impact to an active guild. For those that don't have time, or must afk quite a bit for RL, i.e. kids or spouses, this is a harder issue to overcome. Aurora let us do it at our own pace and when we could. In order to get the ring, you're at the whim of other players. I'm not going to mention the level of skill needed (or "forced" profession you need to play to not get kicked from a PUG) in raids because we all know how that goes.
    I totally agree that Raids deserve their own prestige. Just not sure legendary trinkets was the right choice.

    Im making the legendary armor on my own pace so idk whats you on about.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @meeflak.9714 said:

    @Shiyo.3578 said:
    raids should give 0 special rewards besides achievements.

    If raids aren't popular, then they should stop development on them. Shoving shiny rewards into content people OBVIOUSLY wouldn't want to do if they are not popular without said shiny, shows they are a gigantic waste of development time and money :)

    It's not a waste of development time and money, you can check my comment history to go back a few comments and look at a longer reply I had to this mind set, but In short. Raids(and fractals) are probably the most replayed content in gw2, and the rewards given to the players for investing time into the content do belong there and are a good pay off for the people who make arenanets development time, Truely worth it .

    @Shiyo.3578 said:
    raids should give 0 special rewards besides achievements.

    If raids aren't popular, then they should stop development on them. Shoving shiny rewards into content people OBVIOUSLY wouldn't want to do if they are not popular without said shiny, shows they are a gigantic waste of development time and money :)

    Nobody would do lw updates if it wasnt for the "special" rewards they give and gimicks like exploiting farms.

  • Vulf.3098Vulf.3098 Member ✭✭✭

    @Shiyo.3578 said:
    raids should give 0 special rewards besides achievements.

    If raids aren't popular, then they should stop development on them. Shoving shiny rewards into content people OBVIOUSLY wouldn't want to do if they are not popular without said shiny, shows they are a gigantic waste of development time and money :)

    I would really love to see the source on that or did you just make an assumption?

    They obviously wouldn't waste resources and developer time if raids weren't popular. Not saying it is the most played content in the game but it is no where near as unpopular as you are assuming it is.

  • Genesis.5169Genesis.5169 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 2, 2017

    Sigh, just because people will reprimand you doesn't mean its a toxic setting, please stop using buzzwords just because you don't like the content that's how words lose meaning. Also i think its a good thing it may open up raids to more of the community which may decrease the amount of elitism in the raiding community.

    Get safe spaces out of spvp, demand real post game stats!
    Gw2 already the easiest MMO on the market if you believe content is too hard its time for some self reflection.
    Stop asking to nerf classes if you PvE exclusively it makes no sense.

  • Rysdude.3824Rysdude.3824 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Rysdude.3824 said:
    I agree you with OP, except the difference I see is the environment to obtain it. Aurora, while a grind like legendary weaponry, could pretty much be done on one's own pace when they want to work on it. Raids, on the other hand, are quite toxic because of the amount of kitten talking, bashing, etc that one has to put up with when pugging. Not to mention that it needs 9 other players to complete. Find some friends you say? Or join a guild? Thats great for those that can devote a substantial amount of time to GW2 to make friends and make a worthwhile impact to an active guild. For those that don't have time, or must afk quite a bit for RL, i.e. kids or spouses, this is a harder issue to overcome. Aurora let us do it at our own pace and when we could. In order to get the ring, you're at the whim of other players. I'm not going to mention the level of skill needed (or "forced" profession you need to play to not get kicked from a PUG) in raids because we all know how that goes.
    I totally agree that Raids deserve their own prestige. Just not sure legendary trinkets was the right choice.

    Im making the legendary armor on my own pace so idk whats you on about.

    All by yourself eh? Not relying on 9 other players? Good on you.

  • FOX.3582FOX.3582 Member ✭✭✭

    "Why locking content behind raids is okay?" Well, because you raid of course you doughnut... I have a nice set of leggy armor myself and I already killed 50% of the new wing, but it still is not right to suddenly exclude people who have ALWAYS been included for years. I don't care that much tho. Punishment for having a bad business-plan is losing profit, and we all know Arenanet is dealing with that problem big time... =)

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Their game, their choice.If they believe catering to raiders is the best way to bankroll the game, kudos. Not my problem.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Evolute.6239Evolute.6239 Member ✭✭✭

    @Rysdude.3824 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Rysdude.3824 said:
    I agree you with OP, except the difference I see is the environment to obtain it. Aurora, while a grind like legendary weaponry, could pretty much be done on one's own pace when they want to work on it. Raids, on the other hand, are quite toxic because of the amount of kitten talking, bashing, etc that one has to put up with when pugging. Not to mention that it needs 9 other players to complete. Find some friends you say? Or join a guild? Thats great for those that can devote a substantial amount of time to GW2 to make friends and make a worthwhile impact to an active guild. For those that don't have time, or must afk quite a bit for RL, i.e. kids or spouses, this is a harder issue to overcome. Aurora let us do it at our own pace and when we could. In order to get the ring, you're at the whim of other players. I'm not going to mention the level of skill needed (or "forced" profession you need to play to not get kicked from a PUG) in raids because we all know how that goes.
    I totally agree that Raids deserve their own prestige. Just not sure legendary trinkets was the right choice.

    Im making the legendary armor on my own pace so idk whats you on about.

    All by yourself eh? Not relying on 9 other players? Good on you.

    Why is 10 people such a magic number to people?

    Fractals at 5 is ok. Dungeons at 5 are ok.

    TEN? SOUND THE ALARMS! ELITIST ONLY ZONE!

    You can completely pug every single boss on your own time and with your own rules so yes you can make armor at your own pace. He didn't say alone.

  • meeflak.9714meeflak.9714 Member ✭✭✭

    @FOX.3582 said:
    "Why locking content behind raids is okay?" Well, because you raid of course you doughnut... I have a nice set of leggy armor myself and I already killed 50% of the new wing, but it still is not right to suddenly exclude people who have ALWAYS been included for years. I don't care that much tho. Punishment for having a bad business-plan is losing profit, and we all know Arenanet is dealing with that problem big time... =)

    Like so many people have said so many times, no one is suddenly excluded because it's a raid reward. It's still obtainable by all, I never thought I'd be able to raid and thought it was something above me, I was wrong, people need to look past there negative outlook on raids and the raiding community, just as I had to. Then they'll realize raiding is what you make it..

    Main ranger: Adalyn Del Rayna. Plz stop saying raids are toxic.. raids are what you make them

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Personnally I think that legendary or not this will just be a ring and there are already plenty of way to gain the non legendary rings. If anet feel like there is a need for a reward gated behind the new raid and it need to be a legendary thing then let it be.

  • FOX.3582FOX.3582 Member ✭✭✭

    @meeflak.9714 said:

    @FOX.3582 said:
    "Why locking content behind raids is okay?" Well, because you raid of course you doughnut... I have a nice set of leggy armor myself and I already killed 50% of the new wing, but it still is not right to suddenly exclude people who have ALWAYS been included for years. I don't care that much tho. Punishment for having a bad business-plan is losing profit, and we all know Arenanet is dealing with that problem big time... =)

    Like so many people have said so many times, no one is suddenly excluded because it's a raid reward. It's still obtainable by all, I never thought I'd be able to raid and thought it was something above me, I was wrong, people need to look past there negative outlook on raids and the raiding community, just as I had to. Then they'll realize raiding is what you make it..

    People have all rights to have a negative perspective on raids because most of them bought this game while it was ADVERTISED as a game with dungeons, story and a living world that are super CASUAL. Suddenly they abandon stuff like dungeons (who even the most idiotic person could clear) and come up with a lot more difficult stuff like the Jungle and Raids, just because a handful of people find this game too easy. Again, I like raids myself, I like fractal challenge modes, I like the Jungle, but that doesn't mean I'm not able to view it from an other perspective. Making hardcore content in a game were 95% of the people are only able to stand stationary while pressing skill #1 is a really bad decision, specially if seen for a business perspective and this game WILL face the consequences. A lot of "newbies" will leave this game (a lot already have) because it's becoming too hard for them, so it excludes them from content, WHICH THEY HAVEN'T CHOSE FOR TO BEGIN WITH. And the hardcore people will also leave (again, a lot already have) because the raids are still WAAAAAAY TOO EASY compared to other games. A lot of you will see that I'm right eventually.

  • Vulf.3098Vulf.3098 Member ✭✭✭

    That is exactly why they designed raids to be optional content. Now if legendaries gave a huge power advantage over someone who doesn't have them then I definitely would see it as a problem.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I have 4 friends but i cant find 5 more.

  • I play a necro : GW2 v = i couldn to dungeons (groups kicked me / if created a FLG noone would join) till they became off meta
    = i couldnt do fractals (same reason...) till they became off meta
    =i cant do raids (i have no lp cozz necro is a meme & noone would take one when raids were introduced & you need lp to get in group)do i need to w8 till they become off meta ??

    legendary except the trident ( rofl) i dont like them (estetically) ,but they offer a great quality of life , swap stats to change spec & playstyle is awsome ( save space = money).Used to be hc progresion raider in wow , heck we even reached 25 in eu guilds ranking , now i cant do kitten... consumbles, gearing , learning bosses its part of the game , yet i play a meme .
    How should i feel knowing that i probably i wont see that ring whatever i try ?

  • meeflak.9714meeflak.9714 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Personnally I think that legendary or not this will just be a ring and there are already plenty of way to gain the non legendary rings. If anet feel like there is a need for a reward gated behind the new raid and it need to be a legendary thing then let it be.

    Not only are there plenty of non legendary trinkets either the exact same stats, there will be more legendary trinkets tied to game other game modes... Like I've said it's one out of five legendary trinkets, more will come in Time.

    Main ranger: Adalyn Del Rayna. Plz stop saying raids are toxic.. raids are what you make them

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Evolute.6239 said:
    You can completely pug every single boss on your own time and with your own rules so yes you can make armor at your own pace. He didn't say alone.

    Does anyone really actually believe this?

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Rysdude.3824Rysdude.3824 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Evolute.6239 said:
    You can completely pug every single boss on your own time and with your own rules so yes you can make armor at your own pace. He didn't say alone.

    Does anyone really actually believe this?

    I wasnt going to bother with a response to it. But your question pretty much sums up what I intended to say lol

  • Rennie.6750Rennie.6750 Member ✭✭✭

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Evolute.6239 said:
    You can completely pug every single boss on your own time and with your own rules so yes you can make armor at your own pace. He didn't say alone.

    Does anyone really actually believe this?

    Of course they do, if they had the perspective of someone with 0 Lis, no friendlist and a non raiding guild, they would have a less delusional narrative.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2, 2017

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    Does anyone really actually believe this?

    Yes, I actually have and many other members of my several guilds also have.

  • Daniel.5428Daniel.5428 Member ✭✭✭

    Tell me how many original legendaries does WvW and PvP have? Yes.....None. They added the backpiece just because people complained about fractals being the only source of legendary back. Then they added armor just because it was locked behind raid. So PVP in essence is a second hand shop for legendaries, right? Locking a legendary behind a raid is not bad. Locking a legendary behind a new raid, where people will kick you out if you do not have the items from the previous raids, it is a very bad idea. I don't know how many raiders have the chance to begin raiding with W5. Nobody takes you if you do not have at least 200 LI and even the bosses are made for experienced raiders.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vinceman.4572 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    Does anyone really actually believe this?

    Yes, I actually have and many other members of my several guilds also have.

    So by "Pug" you mean running with guild mates who also raid.

    Kinda figured it was loaded and stacked like that.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @meeflak.9714 said:
    People have been saying it's not okay to lock one legendary trinket behind an area of the game they don't play, while simultaneously failing to look at the fact the first legendary trinket was also locked behind an area of the game that some people don't play as well.

    "some" is not the same as "most"
    That is the difference between those two legendary accesories.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    Does anyone really actually believe this?

    Yes, I actually have and many other members of my several guilds also have.

    So by "Pug" you mean running with guild mates who also raid.

    Kinda figured it was loaded and stacked like that.

    kitten, just no.

    No, with "pug" I meant "pug". Almost all of my guild mates were or are playing alone and group/ed per LFG from time to time. Most often to train a new class or just trying to carry beginner groups with 0 or few LI as requirement.
    See, this is a problem of several non-raiders. A little bit lack of self-confidence on one side and the wrong attitude. Doesn't count for all but most of the people I met and brought into raiding were like: "I won't make it anyway.", which is kinda stupid because raids in GW2 - at least 6-9 encounters - are easy in terms of difficulty or very easy if played on certain classes.

  • From my perspective, being gated behind one raid is fair. Apples & oranges really, just need to find those few that are on the level with you to avoid too much toxicity. As someone with a few disabilities myself, Partial vision, cerebral palsy, epilepsy to name a few. There are other things. (the CP makes one hands actions follow the other and vice versa.) So for me it makes things "challenging" but not impossible. I have completed raids.

    Pugging i have found the least stressful as most of the time it's clear cut. We clear it or we don't, we accept it and move on. Guild runs i have found the most stressful as training runs ended up DPS battles rather than something to learn and build on. I expected better from "guild mates" as it kinda killed any momentum we were trying to pick up.

    While i only have 2 others i play with every night in whatever content we do Fractals, WvW we did try the new raid. It was a fail being a blind trio but it was nice to check it out. Granted lfg was dead and no one else joined we might have got somewhere otherwise.

    I guess i would raid more often if we had more for it.

    Needless to say i do my best in whatever i do. it may not be up to par with some peoples liking but i don't dislike the raid community for anything, just individual a$$es for there actions. =)

    Home Sweet {Home} - Sea of Sorrows

  • meeflak.9714meeflak.9714 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2017

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @meeflak.9714 said:
    People have been saying it's not okay to lock one legendary trinket behind an area of the game they don't play, while simultaneously failing to look at the fact the first legendary trinket was also locked behind an area of the game that some people don't play as well.

    "some" is not the same as "most"
    That is the difference between those two legendary accesories.

    Okay? Most people don't feel inclined to raid.. if they want this trinket,Like I've said. Nothing is stopping them from doing it, and it's their own decision.

    Main ranger: Adalyn Del Rayna. Plz stop saying raids are toxic.. raids are what you make them

  • meeflak.9714meeflak.9714 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2017

    @Rennie.6750 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Evolute.6239 said:
    You can completely pug every single boss on your own time and with your own rules so yes you can make armor at your own pace. He didn't say alone.

    Does anyone really actually believe this?

    Of course they do, if they had the perspective of someone with 0 Lis, no friendlist and a non raiding guild, they would have a less delusional narrative.

    Of course we believe it. Because every single raider, at one point in time had 0 li... 0 experience.... And wasn't apart of raid guild's or statics. But we all got past the " raids are inaccessible" mindset our narrative isn't " dellusional" less then a year ago I had never touched a raid... And had no raiding friends. 0 li. 0 experience. What was holding me back? The same mindset holding you back rn..

    Like, Jesus..... I'm still not apart of a static.. never have been. I'm not apart of a raid guild... (One lfg guild) .. I still pug every time I raid. Every first kill I had. Or training was a pug. One I made myself or one I joined..

    Main ranger: Adalyn Del Rayna. Plz stop saying raids are toxic.. raids are what you make them

  • meeflak.9714meeflak.9714 Member ✭✭✭

    @Daniel.5428 said:
    Tell me how many original legendaries does WvW and PvP have? Yes.....None. They added the backpiece just because people complained about fractals being the only source of legendary back. Then they added armor just because it was locked behind raid. So PVP in essence is a second hand shop for legendaries, right? Locking a legendary behind a raid is not bad. Locking a legendary behind a new raid, where people will kick you out if you do not have the items from the previous raids, it is a very bad idea. I don't know how many raiders have the chance to begin raiding with W5. Nobody takes you if you do not have at least 200 LI and even the bosses are made for experienced raiders.

    I mean... I've seen many many training runs, first attempt runs, etc for wing 5. Requiring nothing... Yes there are some groups , commanders requiring X amount of LI or an explanation of mechanics when you join... But hey . That's there group ... Look for the groups that meet your expectations , like I've said like 10 times in this post.. and if you don't see one, and you don't want to wait for one, make you own... What's stopping you besides your own self criticism? You don't even need a comm tag . Cater your experiences towards your own goals and ideas. You have nothing to complain about then.

    Main ranger: Adalyn Del Rayna. Plz stop saying raids are toxic.. raids are what you make them

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2017

    @Vinceman.4572 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    Does anyone really actually believe this?

    Yes, I actually have and many other members of my several guilds also have.

    So by "Pug" you mean running with guild mates who also raid.

    Kinda figured it was loaded and stacked like that.

    kitten, just no.

    No, with "pug" I meant "pug". Almost all of my guild mates were or are playing alone and group/ed per LFG from time to time. Most often to train a new class or just trying to carry beginner groups with 0 or few LI as requirement.
    See, this is a problem of several non-raiders. A little bit lack of self-confidence on one side and the wrong attitude. Doesn't count for all but most of the people I met and brought into raiding were like: "I won't make it anyway.", which is kinda stupid because raids in GW2 - at least 6-9 encounters - are easy in terms of difficulty or very easy if played on certain classes.

    LOL, Nahh man.. It's cool, I used to raid a lot on one of the other MMO's I used to play, We used to "Pug" raids all the time. too.

    Which for those that don't know what this means, it means, all but maybe 1 or 2 of us already knew each other and raided with each other before, and we would take on an unknown, and call that a "Pug"

    This is not to be confused with what a casual might think of when they think of a pug group.

    But you know what, it does not matter,

    As it stands, locking tings behind a grind, makes players feel "They could do it, if they wanted to", Locking it behind a raid means they feel that content is beyond them and thus inaccessible. which kills their 'end game' goals. But it's not your call to make at this point, its' not mine, Anet made this decision, and the rest of us will deal.

    How we deal... well that is up to us.. Not you

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • meeflak.9714meeflak.9714 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2017

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    Does anyone really actually believe this?

    Yes, I actually have and many other members of my several guilds also have.

    So by "Pug" you mean running with guild mates who also raid.

    Kinda figured it was loaded and stacked like that.

    kitten, just no.

    No, with "pug" I meant "pug". Almost all of my guild mates were or are playing alone and group/ed per LFG from time to time. Most often to train a new class or just trying to carry beginner groups with 0 or few LI as requirement.
    See, this is a problem of several non-raiders. A little bit lack of self-confidence on one side and the wrong attitude. Doesn't count for all but most of the people I met and brought into raiding were like: "I won't make it anyway.", which is kinda stupid because raids in GW2 - at least 6-9 encounters - are easy in terms of difficulty or very easy if played on certain classes.

    LOL, Nahh man.. It's cool, I used to raid a lot on one of the other MMO's I used to play, We used to "Pug" raids all the time. too.

    Which for those that don't know what this means, it means, all but maybe 1 or 2 of us already knew each other and raided with each other before, and we would take on an unknown, and call that a "Pug"

    This is not to be confused with what a casual might think of when they think of a pug group.

    But you know what, it does not matter,

    As it stands, locking tings behind a grind, makes players feel "They could do it, if they wanted to", Locking it behind a raid means they feel that content is beyond them and thus inaccessible. which kills their 'end game' goals. But it's not your call to make at this point, its' not mine, Anet made this decision, and the rest of us will deal.

    How we deal... well that is up to us.. Not you

    Why are you comparing gw2raids to other games??? Like can you explain that ??? Pugs in raids for gw2. Means pugs .... Always a group of random people I don't know..

    Probably the last time I'll say it in this thread

    Tailor your raiding experience to your own expectations.... Its easy to do, join groups that meet your expectations, or make your own.

    Main ranger: Adalyn Del Rayna. Plz stop saying raids are toxic.. raids are what you make them

  • Shampanix.3928Shampanix.3928 Member ✭✭
    edited December 3, 2017

    They want you to try it, work for it, get better and actually play the content.

    If you can't, deal with it. But if you desperately want that reward - it's legendary, you have to earn it. Simple.

    I had 3 raid kills. I don't want to play that content due to high difficulty, toxic players and constant DPS measuring which is boring numbers and kittening about them. BUT if I see the final version of ring aura and decide my main needs it - I'll work for it cus it's something I want to achieve. By this I'll get better at playing and overcoming the challenge will feel rewarding on itself.

    Last time I played raids I had to make my own groups - but hey, people joined and after couple of days we killed those bosses I earned my LI from. It's possible. So either you find a guild or work on pugging. You do not need to DING the reward when it shows up instantly. And come on, raids need to have some great rewards to keep players playing them. In WoW they have gear treadmil. In GW2 we can only get QOL and Fashion Wars stuff. Don't take it from high end game content cus people complain they can't one shot it or chew it for months...

    And even if you consider chewing stuff for months to get it - chew raid to get better and earn your shiny.

    In the past I desperately wanted difficulty tiers for raids. But now... nah man, let it be like it is. Let elitists brag about how good they are. And let other people enjoy other casual stuff. Don't expect to have access to every kitten in game becouse you feel entitled to do so.

    TLDR: I don't raid anymore, killed 3 bosses but don't want to do it any more. But if final ring is cool - I'll make myself to get better at raiding and get the reward I want. Cool challenge after all.

  • Rysdude.3824Rysdude.3824 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Right now, the cheapest raid buy for the ring unlock plus items is 1500 gold. Not too bad.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Evolute.6239 said:

    @Rennie.6750 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Evolute.6239 said:
    You can completely pug every single boss on your own time and with your own rules so yes you can make armor at your own pace. He didn't say alone.

    Does anyone really actually believe this?

    Of course they do, if they had the perspective of someone with 0 Lis, no friendlist and a non raiding guild, they would have a less delusional narrative.

    I started the game in August. I have never been part of a raiding guild. I had zero experience to GW2 raiding. I have a very small friendlist of people, pretty much zero of which I ever actually talk to, and none of which I've ever done raids with. I have 70 LI now and I'm finished the first envoy collection.

    But no,** please pretend I'm a 500 LI elitist who didn't just actually try to not be bad and learn the encounters** as I was able to via freely available training raids, no LI requirement pugs, and learning required roles.

    God you triggered me. You did it! Thanks for assuming I was someting I'm not!

    hummm

    I'm a 500 LI elitist who didn't just actually try to not be bad and learn the encounters

    Yah... Well... I am sure you fit right in.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2017

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Evolute.6239 said:

    @Rennie.6750 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Evolute.6239 said:
    You can completely pug every single boss on your own time and with your own rules so yes you can make armor at your own pace. He didn't say alone.

    Does anyone really actually believe this?

    Of course they do, if they had the perspective of someone with 0 Lis, no friendlist and a non raiding guild, they would have a less delusional narrative.

    I started the game in August. I have never been part of a raiding guild. I had zero experience to GW2 raiding. I have a very small friendlist of people, pretty much zero of which I ever actually talk to, and none of which I've ever done raids with. I have 70 LI now and I'm finished the first envoy collection.

    But no,** please pretend I'm a 500 LI elitist who didn't just actually try to not be bad and learn the encounters** as I was able to via freely available training raids, no LI requirement pugs, and learning required roles.

    God you triggered me. You did it! Thanks for assuming I was someting I'm not!

    hummm

    I'm a 500 LI elitist who didn't just actually try to not be bad and learn the encounters

    Yah... Well... I am sure you fit right in.

    Uncool to take quote and even parts of a sentence to change its meaning. That way of quoting tells people a lot more about you than about the person you are quoting.

    Just for clarification, the whole sentence is actually:

    @Evolute.6239 said:
    But no, please pretend I'm a 500 LI elitist who didn't just actually try to not be bad and learn the encounters as I was able to via freely available training raids, no LI requirement pugs, and learning required roles.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    How did you miss that I included his whole post for reference?

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2017

    Never saw anyone that was not an self centered elitist say "not be bad"

    But none the less, this is moving off topic now.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Evolute.6239Evolute.6239 Member ✭✭✭

    Would you prefer me to say not suck? It's not elitist to learn mechanics (or heaven forbid, read a guide before you attempt something) and do them properly. Doing the mechanics properly is good. Doing the mechanics inproperly (leading to a wipe on many encounters, or your death) is bad.

    Do you want me to use more PC language?

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Evolute.6239 said:
    Would you prefer me to say not suck? It's not elitist to learn mechanics (or heaven forbid, read a guide before you attempt something) and do them properly. Doing the mechanics properly is good. Doing the mechanics inproperly (leading to a wipe on many encounters, or your death) is bad.

    Do you want me to use more PC language?

    And hide your true feelings? Never.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

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