Do raids need easy/normal/hard difficulty mode? [merged] - Page 106 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Do raids need easy/normal/hard difficulty mode? [merged]

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  • Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Mount skins were absolutely NOT called pay to win. There is/was no winning. You are intentionally mixing loot boxes and the disdain over this kind of content implementation with pay to win, when those are 2 completely different issues even if they occasionally go hand in hand.

    Actually they were indeed called Pay to Win by a number of people.
    The argument was:
    "The only real endgame in Gw2 is fashion, therefore locking customization behind a paywall is P2W"
    It was/is a ridiculous argument to be sure but it was screamed out pretty loudly by some of the more entitled. Wooden Potatoes even addressed the point of view in his video when the whole gong show was at it's peak.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    @mindcircus.1506 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Mount skins were absolutely NOT called pay to win. There is/was no winning. You are intentionally mixing loot boxes and the disdain over this kind of content implementation with pay to win, when those are 2 completely different issues even if they occasionally go hand in hand.

    Actually they were indeed called Pay to Win by a number of people.
    The argument was:
    "The only real endgame in Gw2 is fashion, therefore locking customization behind a paywall is P2W"
    It was/is a ridiculous argument to be sure but it was screamed out pretty loudly by some of the more entitled. Wooden Potatoes even addressed the point of view in his video when the whole gong show was at it's peak.

    Well now we would have to get into what are reasonable arguments and what is unreasonable noise. Might there have been some few who have said something utterly stupid? Sure, but was that in any way related to the main issue or problem at hand? No.

    Portraying it in a way that pay to win was a big deal and drawing on peoples mistrust and dislike of loot boxes when talking about mounts is misleading when it comes to mounts.

  • We need both easy and hard modes

    @yann.1946 said:

    @Jamie.4130 said:
    Mostly I think an easy mode would be fine to bring more enjoyment to the community due to the people who either don't have time to raid, can't learn to raid, or don't have the skills to raid. I understand that bringing the elite endgame content to the majority of the player base has issues like LFR on WoW, but I don't see it as much of an issue under a few conditions. The conditions that should be met to consider doing an easy mode and hard mode is that:
    1. Hard mode has to have very lucrative and exclusive rewards that easy mode can never and will never match in order for the elite player base to still feel rewarded in doing this content
    2. Easy mode has to be challenging enough that it makes strategy important to completion, much like how raids are now but with a removal of some mechanics or bosses altogether that make it easier to complete than hard mode.
    3. Possibly introduce a new tier of gear for hard mode raids that is superior to current ascended gear sets while keeping easy mode at the current level of gear
    This obviously means that some parts of the game would need to be tweaked, remade, coded differently, and that means time and money for ArenaNet. And I would honestly be fine if this feature was not introduced either way.

    Point 3 would be a ridiculous bad idea. Lack of gear grind was a big motivation to try this game out

    Yeah I see your point. I was just thinking that it could be a way to give hardcore raiders an incentive to raid over the more casual audience. but it could be something else. Just giving ideas

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭
    We need both easy and hard modes

    With the new festival mini raid with Wintersday(extremely fun) is Anet potentially using this opportunity to test the waters for a possible story mode raids? I noticed many different raid mechanics happening during the fight.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    With the new festival mini raid with Wintersday(extremely fun) is Anet potentially using this opportunity to test the waters for a possible story mode raids? I noticed many different raid mechanics happening during the fight.

    Nope, they're not.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭
    We need both easy and hard modes

    @Vinceman.4572 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    With the new festival mini raid with Wintersday(extremely fun) is Anet potentially using this opportunity to test the waters for a possible story mode raids? I noticed many different raid mechanics happening during the fight.

    Nope, they're not.

    Ya never know, I guess, 😉

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    With the new festival mini raid with Wintersday(extremely fun) is Anet potentially using this opportunity to test the waters for a possible story mode raids? I noticed many different raid mechanics happening during the fight.

    Nope, they're not.

    Ya never know, I guess, 😉

    Yeah, right, but we haven't seen anything from Anet that was highly unexpected. Since the latest answer was like: "We don't have any plans about an easy mode raid.", I still doubt that easy mode raids have any (high) relevance for the dev team at the moment.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Raids have problems, but we need a better solution

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    With the new festival mini raid with Wintersday(extremely fun) is Anet potentially using this opportunity to test the waters for a possible story mode raids? I noticed many different raid mechanics happening during the fight.

    For a possible story mode for Raids? No, that's like saying the open world VG or open world Slothasor were made for a similar purpose. But for giving people a taste of Raids? That's probably a good reason to add it. See what 10-man content is all about. I guess it will all depend in the success of it, how many will like/play the content. Furthermore, it's a great opportunity, at least for those asking for easier Raids, to prove that they are worth the effort. Meaning how many more players, than those actively raiding, will play/finish this content, how many non-raiders are actually interested in easier 10-man content. Time will tell I guess.

  • Blaeys.3102Blaeys.3102 Member ✭✭✭
    We need both easy and hard modes

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    With the new festival mini raid with Wintersday(extremely fun) is Anet potentially using this opportunity to test the waters for a possible story mode raids? I noticed many different raid mechanics happening during the fight.

    I think the new Wintersday instance does show that easy mode raids would be both popular and valid, but I - unfortunately - doubt this is the thinking at Arenanet. They have made it clear that the company is suffering from a lack of development resources (most recently illustrated by yet another delay for open world content), so raids in general have to fall down the priority list.

    That said, if they ever do free up resources to do something more with raids, I think this "mini raid" offers them valuable data and information on the direction they should take. An easy mode raid would work (because it is working in game right now with this instance) and it would be something they could keep active alongside the current raid versions (with the proper resources, of course).

    Now, it could have been an internal test to see how much they could realistically do in this direction with the resources they have - but, again, giving the delays with living stories, I would think they would look at others areas to improve first.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited 12:21PM
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    @Blaeys.3102 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    With the new festival mini raid with Wintersday(extremely fun) is Anet potentially using this opportunity to test the waters for a possible story mode raids? I noticed many different raid mechanics happening during the fight.

    I think the new Wintersday instance does show that easy mode raids would be both popular and valid, but I - unfortunately - doubt this is the thinking at Arenanet. They have made it clear that the company is suffering from a lack of development resources (most recently illustrated by yet another delay for open world content), so raids in general have to fall down the priority list.

    That said, if they ever do free up resources to do something more with raids, I think this "mini raid" offers them valuable data and information on the direction they should take. An easy mode raid would work (because it is working in game right now with this instance) and it would be something they could keep active alongside the current raid versions (with the proper resources, of course).

    Now, it could have been an internal test to see how much they could realistically do in this direction with the resources they have - but, again, giving the delays with living stories, I would think they would look at others areas to improve first.

    They now have data on how many people do the raid. They can now decide if it is worth to developer more easy raid content.

    Given that most people I know found it fun, did it 1ince, then never touched it again, I doubt we will see a change in their approach to raid difficulty. The definition of something working is not:"People enjoyed it once and are done with it." At least not for raid content.

  • Grogba.6204Grogba.6204 Member ✭✭✭
    edited 12:48PM
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    Given that most people I know found it fun, did it 1ince, then never touched it again, I doubt we will see a change in their approach to raid difficulty. The definition of something working is not:"People enjoyed it once and are done with it." At least not for raid content.

    Which brings us back to the original problem! (Running in circles for 106 pages, yaaaay!)

    If the rewards are bad people will do the easy mode once, at best. Maybe lure in some veterans when Anet adds achievements to it.
    If the rewards are good/better compared to the regular raids than you end up cannibalizing those which means

    no boss tokens
    no Legendary Insights/Divinations

  • Blaeys.3102Blaeys.3102 Member ✭✭✭
    We need both easy and hard modes

    @Grogba.6204 said:

    Given that most people I know found it fun, did it 1ince, then never touched it again, I doubt we will see a change in their approach to raid difficulty. The definition of something working is not:"People enjoyed it once and are done with it." At least not for raid content.

    Which brings us back to the original problem! (Running in circles for 106 pages, yaaaay!)

    If the rewards are bad people will do the easy mode once, at best. Maybe lure in some veterans when Anet adds achievements to it.
    If the rewards are good/better compared to the regular raids than you end up cannibalizing those which means

    no boss tokens
    no Legendary Insights/Divinations

    Which really serves to only prove that - for a large group - repeatablility (for all parts of the game) are tied to reward rather than content. It stands to reason, then, that we should separate the discussions. If the goal is to have people repeat content, all they need to do is provide desirable rewards (which can still be tiered - as they are across the game now).

    At the same time, we have to gauge the "fun" aspect of content separate from whether or not it is repeated (because, again, for many, that is tied to reward, not the actual content). And, the Wintersday 10 man instance is fun - just as a raid encounter is fun. If you build out either and want repeatability, you simply use rewards (which, again, do not have to mirror one another and can be tiered based on prestige) to accomplish that.

    Once you have that combination of fun+incentive, you have a successful model that makes the game stronger. Adding tiers to the content widens the audience and justifies greater investment/integration with the story/etc - making it a win/win for everyone, including hardcore raiders (it would have justified including a more difficult version of the Wintersday fight, for example).

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited 3:21PM
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    And that's the reason why most of the raiders have nothing against an easy mode if the rewards are very well balanced.
    Actually, this was the reasonable opinion of most of the people from the pro-raid fraction during this discussion of 106 pages now. Only a few, which you can't take seriously showed a toxic behaviour and I think we all can agree that there's no need to listen to them.

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