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Do raids need easy/normal/hard difficulty mode? [merged]

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  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Genesis.5169 said:
    No people just need to sit down and deal with wipes like people do in every other mmo instead of cry a pool of salt that would make the dead sea blush. Seriously the retention rate for people in groups that wipe is insane. Back when i played FF14, i was in a minstrals ballad thoradins reign learning/clear party., and most of them stayed for over 4hours, same with sophia extreme, nidhogg, a11s/a12s (never got there a12s with pug tho that was guild only runs later on). Here if we got a wipe on cairn or something its common for 2-4 leaving with out notice.

    There's none of that here i think its due to the theme park nature of this game maybe if they don't get there stuff quickly in a raid they will just leave and do something else, and likely never come back due to the fact they don't have to and the last time they were there they got there kitten kicked in. I say anet need to add First time bonuses for the entire raid group to help retention rates on wipes because getting tokens not cutting it.

    I agree with you. this is mainly due to the fact that the core game was designed to attract people who had very little play time and still wanted to be able to make progress Such a foundation does not lend itself well to a "raid culture" and truth be told.. never will, which is just one of the many reasons why raids are more disjunctive to GW2 then a logical addition.

    I have no solutions to this... nor shall I pretend such, it's on Anet to do whatever they feel is best, and I have no grievances regardless of what they do at this point.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 15, 2017

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    But we are talking in circles. All of these things have been mentioned hundreds of times from both sides. The one side usually represented by raiders who have experience with the content, and the other side by often forum warriors who have 0 clue what they are talking about.

    I have done raids since the 90's. I have a clue what I am talking about. Thanks for the wrong assumptions.

    So have I, I was talking about raids in GW2.

    You make it sound like they are somehow different then raids in TERA for example. I didn't see anything unique or special about GW2 raids, that make something different them what we have done to death many times before. Some of us are simply burned out from the Drama and BS, have our small circle of people, and don't see the magical need for Double Group Dungeons, Which is really all a raid in this game.. like so many others.. just a double group dungeon encounter.. meh. Raids are common, generic content, nothing special about them, and truth be told, GW2 would have been better off trying to find a new approach, to test the norm, then fall back on such a bland system, its a step back for the game as a whole.. next will you beg them for Kill Stealing.. to make the game more challenging?

    I beg to differ. Raids in GW2 aren't generic. Dungeons are indeed.

    Ok.. if you beg to differ.. go for it.. Explain in detail how the Mechanics in GW2 Raids are intrinsically different then say TERAs Raids.

    You mean besides the fact that TERAs was:

    • raids are 30-man
    • another raid which was basically an extended dungeon for 10-man
    • the game is absolutely focused on constant gear progression
    • uses a typical tank and spank model
    • has level progression with expansions which devalues all previous content

    Honestly, it doesn't take much googling for even an inexperienced non-TERA player to find enough differences in both raid design and game design to realize that both system are fundamentally different. But I'll bite, please explain how GW2 and TERA raids are similar because you seem to be the TERA expert here with a ton of GW2 raiding experience.

    That is why I asked for Mechanics of the Raid itself, not the Core Game. We are all well aware that GW2 and TERA, have very different game designs, that is also a major point of objection to Raids being added to GW2 in the first place, as they do not mend with the game's core makeup design. That however is it's own discussion. So, I am going to ignore all irrelevant stuff and get to the ONE thing you said that involved the actual Raid Mechanic.

    • uses typical tank and spank model.

    Here is your wake up call, VG is a typical Tank and Spank model.

    So again.. what is intrinsically mechanically different about the raids in TERA vs GW2.. maybe now from someone that knows raids in both games?

    Or maybe, we can go with a comparison with a different game, we don't have to use TERA. Maybe Wildstar? FFXIV? EQ2, if you are a bit old school?

    In the end.. GW2 Raids are not uniquely different from raids in other games, they are cliche and generic. Everything the core game was not.

    You are the one claiming they are similar, you have not yet shown this to be the case. I've raided in DAoC, WoW, Aion and GW2. To me the GW2 raids are quite unique. On top of that the 2 games you are referring to have very different raid sizes as well as game mechanics. You're the one who has to prove they are similar.

    Also VG is 1 fight of by now 17. Yes, there is tank and spank fights in GW2 raids, now show that VG is similar to all 16 other raid fights here or show that all the others are tank and spank (besides all the other details but let's start with tank and spank only).

    I shall do no such thing, nor do I have to, Since my point was cemented when we both agreed that VG is a Generic Tank and Spank, it's now on you to prove Raids in this game are somehow special and offer a unique feel from other games.

    Good Luck.

    So you are agreeing that your entire argument is based on 1 fight. Works for me.

    So you are admitting you can't explain how they are intrinsically different,. Works for me.

    Are we done now?

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 15, 2017
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    But we are talking in circles. All of these things have been mentioned hundreds of times from both sides. The one side usually represented by raiders who have experience with the content, and the other side by often forum warriors who have 0 clue what they are talking about.

    I have done raids since the 90's. I have a clue what I am talking about. Thanks for the wrong assumptions.

    So have I, I was talking about raids in GW2.

    You make it sound like they are somehow different then raids in TERA for example. I didn't see anything unique or special about GW2 raids, that make something different them what we have done to death many times before. Some of us are simply burned out from the Drama and BS, have our small circle of people, and don't see the magical need for Double Group Dungeons, Which is really all a raid in this game.. like so many others.. just a double group dungeon encounter.. meh. Raids are common, generic content, nothing special about them, and truth be told, GW2 would have been better off trying to find a new approach, to test the norm, then fall back on such a bland system, its a step back for the game as a whole.. next will you beg them for Kill Stealing.. to make the game more challenging?

    I beg to differ. Raids in GW2 aren't generic. Dungeons are indeed.

    Ok.. if you beg to differ.. go for it.. Explain in detail how the Mechanics in GW2 Raids are intrinsically different then say TERAs Raids.

    You mean besides the fact that TERAs was:

    • raids are 30-man
    • another raid which was basically an extended dungeon for 10-man
    • the game is absolutely focused on constant gear progression
    • uses a typical tank and spank model
    • has level progression with expansions which devalues all previous content

    Honestly, it doesn't take much googling for even an inexperienced non-TERA player to find enough differences in both raid design and game design to realize that both system are fundamentally different. But I'll bite, please explain how GW2 and TERA raids are similar because you seem to be the TERA expert here with a ton of GW2 raiding experience.

    That is why I asked for Mechanics of the Raid itself, not the Core Game. We are all well aware that GW2 and TERA, have very different game designs, that is also a major point of objection to Raids being added to GW2 in the first place, as they do not mend with the game's core makeup design. That however is it's own discussion. So, I am going to ignore all irrelevant stuff and get to the ONE thing you said that involved the actual Raid Mechanic.

    • uses typical tank and spank model.

    Here is your wake up call, VG is a typical Tank and Spank model.

    So again.. what is intrinsically mechanically different about the raids in TERA vs GW2.. maybe now from someone that knows raids in both games?

    Or maybe, we can go with a comparison with a different game, we don't have to use TERA. Maybe Wildstar? FFXIV? EQ2, if you are a bit old school?

    In the end.. GW2 Raids are not uniquely different from raids in other games, they are cliche and generic. Everything the core game was not.

    You are the one claiming they are similar, you have not yet shown this to be the case. I've raided in DAoC, WoW, Aion and GW2. To me the GW2 raids are quite unique. On top of that the 2 games you are referring to have very different raid sizes as well as game mechanics. You're the one who has to prove they are similar.

    Also VG is 1 fight of by now 17. Yes, there is tank and spank fights in GW2 raids, now show that VG is similar to all 16 other raid fights here or show that all the others are tank and spank (besides all the other details but let's start with tank and spank only).

    I shall do no such thing, nor do I have to, Since my point was cemented when we both agreed that VG is a Generic Tank and Spank, it's now on you to prove Raids in this game are somehow special and offer a unique feel from other games.

    Good Luck.

    So you are agreeing that your entire argument is based on 1 fight. Works for me.

    So you are admitting you can't explain how they are intrinsically different,. Works for me.

    Are we done now?

    Sabatha, no tank mechanic.
    Sloth alternating tank mechanic which demands every member of the team be aware of the fight.
    Trio no tank mechanic.
    Matthias no tank mechanic.
    Escort no tank mechanic.
    Cairn no tank mechanic.
    Samarog alternating tank mechanic which again demands a different skill set from every player.

    That's on top of the fact that TERA raids were 30 man big with gear progression in mind (which I slowly think you never actually participated in). Yeah I think we are done here.

  • Genesis.5169Genesis.5169 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    But we are talking in circles. All of these things have been mentioned hundreds of times from both sides. The one side usually represented by raiders who have experience with the content, and the other side by often forum warriors who have 0 clue what they are talking about.

    I have done raids since the 90's. I have a clue what I am talking about. Thanks for the wrong assumptions.

    So have I, I was talking about raids in GW2.

    You make it sound like they are somehow different then raids in TERA for example. I didn't see anything unique or special about GW2 raids, that make something different them what we have done to death many times before. Some of us are simply burned out from the Drama and BS, have our small circle of people, and don't see the magical need for Double Group Dungeons, Which is really all a raid in this game.. like so many others.. just a double group dungeon encounter.. meh. Raids are common, generic content, nothing special about them, and truth be told, GW2 would have been better off trying to find a new approach, to test the norm, then fall back on such a bland system, its a step back for the game as a whole.. next will you beg them for Kill Stealing.. to make the game more challenging?

    I beg to differ. Raids in GW2 aren't generic. Dungeons are indeed.

    Ok.. if you beg to differ.. go for it.. Explain in detail how the Mechanics in GW2 Raids are intrinsically different then say TERAs Raids.

    You mean besides the fact that TERAs was:

    • raids are 30-man
    • another raid which was basically an extended dungeon for 10-man
    • the game is absolutely focused on constant gear progression
    • uses a typical tank and spank model
    • has level progression with expansions which devalues all previous content

    Honestly, it doesn't take much googling for even an inexperienced non-TERA player to find enough differences in both raid design and game design to realize that both system are fundamentally different. But I'll bite, please explain how GW2 and TERA raids are similar because you seem to be the TERA expert here with a ton of GW2 raiding experience.

    That is why I asked for Mechanics of the Raid itself, not the Core Game. We are all well aware that GW2 and TERA, have very different game designs, that is also a major point of objection to Raids being added to GW2 in the first place, as they do not mend with the game's core makeup design. That however is it's own discussion. So, I am going to ignore all irrelevant stuff and get to the ONE thing you said that involved the actual Raid Mechanic.

    • uses typical tank and spank model.

    Here is your wake up call, VG is a typical Tank and Spank model.

    So again.. what is intrinsically mechanically different about the raids in TERA vs GW2.. maybe now from someone that knows raids in both games?

    Or maybe, we can go with a comparison with a different game, we don't have to use TERA. Maybe Wildstar? FFXIV? EQ2, if you are a bit old school?

    In the end.. GW2 Raids are not uniquely different from raids in other games, they are cliche and generic. Everything the core game was not.

    You are the one claiming they are similar, you have not yet shown this to be the case. I've raided in DAoC, WoW, Aion and GW2. To me the GW2 raids are quite unique. On top of that the 2 games you are referring to have very different raid sizes as well as game mechanics. You're the one who has to prove they are similar.

    Also VG is 1 fight of by now 17. Yes, there is tank and spank fights in GW2 raids, now show that VG is similar to all 16 other raid fights here or show that all the others are tank and spank (besides all the other details but let's start with tank and spank only).

    I shall do no such thing, nor do I have to, Since my point was cemented when we both agreed that VG is a Generic Tank and Spank, it's now on you to prove Raids in this game are somehow special and offer a unique feel from other games.

    Good Luck.

    So you are agreeing that your entire argument is based on 1 fight. Works for me.

    So you are admitting you can't explain how they are intrinsically different,. Works for me.

    Are we done now?

    Sabatha, no tank mechanic.
    Sloth alternating tank mechanic which demands every member of the team be aware of the fight.
    Trio no tank mechanic.
    Matthias no tank mechanic.
    Escort no tank mechanic.
    Cairn no tank mechanic.
    Samarog alternating tank mechanic which again demands a different skill set from every player.

    That's on top of the fact that TERA raids were 30 man big with gear progression in mind (which I slowly think you never actually participated in). Yeah I think we are done here.

    I can agree with you as a former tera player, tera is far more traditional then gw2 how ever raiding in tera is far more difficult then gw2. I really do believe its an issue with the will to learn vs the community at large + the current state of squad commanders not trusting anyone without absurd amounts of KPs + raid retention rate.

    People often try to find one monolithic reason why things are the way they are, its rarely ever just one thing.

    For those on the forums who advocate for the removal of duo queues in Spvp, realize your actions over the past 7 years has destroyed gw2 Spvp and thinking doing the same thing again is a good idea after several years of it not working crazy. Get better at pvp.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    @Genesis.5169 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    But we are talking in circles. All of these things have been mentioned hundreds of times from both sides. The one side usually represented by raiders who have experience with the content, and the other side by often forum warriors who have 0 clue what they are talking about.

    I have done raids since the 90's. I have a clue what I am talking about. Thanks for the wrong assumptions.

    So have I, I was talking about raids in GW2.

    You make it sound like they are somehow different then raids in TERA for example. I didn't see anything unique or special about GW2 raids, that make something different them what we have done to death many times before. Some of us are simply burned out from the Drama and BS, have our small circle of people, and don't see the magical need for Double Group Dungeons, Which is really all a raid in this game.. like so many others.. just a double group dungeon encounter.. meh. Raids are common, generic content, nothing special about them, and truth be told, GW2 would have been better off trying to find a new approach, to test the norm, then fall back on such a bland system, its a step back for the game as a whole.. next will you beg them for Kill Stealing.. to make the game more challenging?

    I beg to differ. Raids in GW2 aren't generic. Dungeons are indeed.

    Ok.. if you beg to differ.. go for it.. Explain in detail how the Mechanics in GW2 Raids are intrinsically different then say TERAs Raids.

    You mean besides the fact that TERAs was:

    • raids are 30-man
    • another raid which was basically an extended dungeon for 10-man
    • the game is absolutely focused on constant gear progression
    • uses a typical tank and spank model
    • has level progression with expansions which devalues all previous content

    Honestly, it doesn't take much googling for even an inexperienced non-TERA player to find enough differences in both raid design and game design to realize that both system are fundamentally different. But I'll bite, please explain how GW2 and TERA raids are similar because you seem to be the TERA expert here with a ton of GW2 raiding experience.

    That is why I asked for Mechanics of the Raid itself, not the Core Game. We are all well aware that GW2 and TERA, have very different game designs, that is also a major point of objection to Raids being added to GW2 in the first place, as they do not mend with the game's core makeup design. That however is it's own discussion. So, I am going to ignore all irrelevant stuff and get to the ONE thing you said that involved the actual Raid Mechanic.

    • uses typical tank and spank model.

    Here is your wake up call, VG is a typical Tank and Spank model.

    So again.. what is intrinsically mechanically different about the raids in TERA vs GW2.. maybe now from someone that knows raids in both games?

    Or maybe, we can go with a comparison with a different game, we don't have to use TERA. Maybe Wildstar? FFXIV? EQ2, if you are a bit old school?

    In the end.. GW2 Raids are not uniquely different from raids in other games, they are cliche and generic. Everything the core game was not.

    You are the one claiming they are similar, you have not yet shown this to be the case. I've raided in DAoC, WoW, Aion and GW2. To me the GW2 raids are quite unique. On top of that the 2 games you are referring to have very different raid sizes as well as game mechanics. You're the one who has to prove they are similar.

    Also VG is 1 fight of by now 17. Yes, there is tank and spank fights in GW2 raids, now show that VG is similar to all 16 other raid fights here or show that all the others are tank and spank (besides all the other details but let's start with tank and spank only).

    I shall do no such thing, nor do I have to, Since my point was cemented when we both agreed that VG is a Generic Tank and Spank, it's now on you to prove Raids in this game are somehow special and offer a unique feel from other games.

    Good Luck.

    So you are agreeing that your entire argument is based on 1 fight. Works for me.

    So you are admitting you can't explain how they are intrinsically different,. Works for me.

    Are we done now?

    Sabatha, no tank mechanic.
    Sloth alternating tank mechanic which demands every member of the team be aware of the fight.
    Trio no tank mechanic.
    Matthias no tank mechanic.
    Escort no tank mechanic.
    Cairn no tank mechanic.
    Samarog alternating tank mechanic which again demands a different skill set from every player.

    That's on top of the fact that TERA raids were 30 man big with gear progression in mind (which I slowly think you never actually participated in). Yeah I think we are done here.

    I can agree with you as a former tera player, tera is far more traditional then gw2 how ever raiding in tera is far more difficult then gw2. I really do believe its an issue with the will to learn vs the community at large + the current state of squad commanders not trusting anyone without absurd amounts of KPs + raid retention rate.

    People often try to find one monolithic reason why things are the way they are, its rarely ever just one thing.

    I never said TERA raids are easier. I said they were different to which STIHL took objections but has yet to prove they are similar to GW2 raids.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 15, 2017

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    But we are talking in circles. All of these things have been mentioned hundreds of times from both sides. The one side usually represented by raiders who have experience with the content, and the other side by often forum warriors who have 0 clue what they are talking about.

    I have done raids since the 90's. I have a clue what I am talking about. Thanks for the wrong assumptions.

    So have I, I was talking about raids in GW2.

    You make it sound like they are somehow different then raids in TERA for example. I didn't see anything unique or special about GW2 raids, that make something different them what we have done to death many times before. Some of us are simply burned out from the Drama and BS, have our small circle of people, and don't see the magical need for Double Group Dungeons, Which is really all a raid in this game.. like so many others.. just a double group dungeon encounter.. meh. Raids are common, generic content, nothing special about them, and truth be told, GW2 would have been better off trying to find a new approach, to test the norm, then fall back on such a bland system, its a step back for the game as a whole.. next will you beg them for Kill Stealing.. to make the game more challenging?

    I beg to differ. Raids in GW2 aren't generic. Dungeons are indeed.

    Ok.. if you beg to differ.. go for it.. Explain in detail how the Mechanics in GW2 Raids are intrinsically different then say TERAs Raids.

    You mean besides the fact that TERAs was:

    • raids are 30-man
    • another raid which was basically an extended dungeon for 10-man
    • the game is absolutely focused on constant gear progression
    • uses a typical tank and spank model
    • has level progression with expansions which devalues all previous content

    Honestly, it doesn't take much googling for even an inexperienced non-TERA player to find enough differences in both raid design and game design to realize that both system are fundamentally different. But I'll bite, please explain how GW2 and TERA raids are similar because you seem to be the TERA expert here with a ton of GW2 raiding experience.

    That is why I asked for Mechanics of the Raid itself, not the Core Game. We are all well aware that GW2 and TERA, have very different game designs, that is also a major point of objection to Raids being added to GW2 in the first place, as they do not mend with the game's core makeup design. That however is it's own discussion. So, I am going to ignore all irrelevant stuff and get to the ONE thing you said that involved the actual Raid Mechanic.

    • uses typical tank and spank model.

    Here is your wake up call, VG is a typical Tank and Spank model.

    So again.. what is intrinsically mechanically different about the raids in TERA vs GW2.. maybe now from someone that knows raids in both games?

    Or maybe, we can go with a comparison with a different game, we don't have to use TERA. Maybe Wildstar? FFXIV? EQ2, if you are a bit old school?

    In the end.. GW2 Raids are not uniquely different from raids in other games, they are cliche and generic. Everything the core game was not.

    You are the one claiming they are similar, you have not yet shown this to be the case. I've raided in DAoC, WoW, Aion and GW2. To me the GW2 raids are quite unique. On top of that the 2 games you are referring to have very different raid sizes as well as game mechanics. You're the one who has to prove they are similar.

    Also VG is 1 fight of by now 17. Yes, there is tank and spank fights in GW2 raids, now show that VG is similar to all 16 other raid fights here or show that all the others are tank and spank (besides all the other details but let's start with tank and spank only).

    I shall do no such thing, nor do I have to, Since my point was cemented when we both agreed that VG is a Generic Tank and Spank, it's now on you to prove Raids in this game are somehow special and offer a unique feel from other games.

    Good Luck.

    So you are agreeing that your entire argument is based on 1 fight. Works for me.

    So you are admitting you can't explain how they are intrinsically different,. Works for me.

    Are we done now?

    Sabatha, no tank mechanic.

    You can have someone stand in her "hit box" and lock up some of her abilities, which is a Typical Tank move. So.. she can be tanked to a point.. bumped off the pillar at the first one, and that's really not a good start. I don't care to continue this, and I am not being pandering at this point, but I used TERA as a joke, they don't really have raids.. They have BAM's, for large group events (World Bosses of sorts, it's a signature part of their game) and they have 1, count it.. 1, 10 person dungeon and that is considered a joke.. and still you struggled to find something that made GW2's 10 person instance special in comparison to a game that not much beyond a cheap panty shot grinder (no offence to people that like TERA, but you know the skin show was half the game).

    I am scared to think how bad you would stumble if I used a game with actual raids like LotRo, Wildstar, FF14, DDO, EQ2, etc.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    But we are talking in circles. All of these things have been mentioned hundreds of times from both sides. The one side usually represented by raiders who have experience with the content, and the other side by often forum warriors who have 0 clue what they are talking about.

    I have done raids since the 90's. I have a clue what I am talking about. Thanks for the wrong assumptions.

    So have I, I was talking about raids in GW2.

    You make it sound like they are somehow different then raids in TERA for example. I didn't see anything unique or special about GW2 raids, that make something different them what we have done to death many times before. Some of us are simply burned out from the Drama and BS, have our small circle of people, and don't see the magical need for Double Group Dungeons, Which is really all a raid in this game.. like so many others.. just a double group dungeon encounter.. meh. Raids are common, generic content, nothing special about them, and truth be told, GW2 would have been better off trying to find a new approach, to test the norm, then fall back on such a bland system, its a step back for the game as a whole.. next will you beg them for Kill Stealing.. to make the game more challenging?

    I beg to differ. Raids in GW2 aren't generic. Dungeons are indeed.

    Ok.. if you beg to differ.. go for it.. Explain in detail how the Mechanics in GW2 Raids are intrinsically different then say TERAs Raids.

    You mean besides the fact that TERAs was:

    • raids are 30-man
    • another raid which was basically an extended dungeon for 10-man
    • the game is absolutely focused on constant gear progression
    • uses a typical tank and spank model
    • has level progression with expansions which devalues all previous content

    Honestly, it doesn't take much googling for even an inexperienced non-TERA player to find enough differences in both raid design and game design to realize that both system are fundamentally different. But I'll bite, please explain how GW2 and TERA raids are similar because you seem to be the TERA expert here with a ton of GW2 raiding experience.

    That is why I asked for Mechanics of the Raid itself, not the Core Game. We are all well aware that GW2 and TERA, have very different game designs, that is also a major point of objection to Raids being added to GW2 in the first place, as they do not mend with the game's core makeup design. That however is it's own discussion. So, I am going to ignore all irrelevant stuff and get to the ONE thing you said that involved the actual Raid Mechanic.

    • uses typical tank and spank model.

    Here is your wake up call, VG is a typical Tank and Spank model.

    So again.. what is intrinsically mechanically different about the raids in TERA vs GW2.. maybe now from someone that knows raids in both games?

    Or maybe, we can go with a comparison with a different game, we don't have to use TERA. Maybe Wildstar? FFXIV? EQ2, if you are a bit old school?

    In the end.. GW2 Raids are not uniquely different from raids in other games, they are cliche and generic. Everything the core game was not.

    You are the one claiming they are similar, you have not yet shown this to be the case. I've raided in DAoC, WoW, Aion and GW2. To me the GW2 raids are quite unique. On top of that the 2 games you are referring to have very different raid sizes as well as game mechanics. You're the one who has to prove they are similar.

    Also VG is 1 fight of by now 17. Yes, there is tank and spank fights in GW2 raids, now show that VG is similar to all 16 other raid fights here or show that all the others are tank and spank (besides all the other details but let's start with tank and spank only).

    I shall do no such thing, nor do I have to, Since my point was cemented when we both agreed that VG is a Generic Tank and Spank, it's now on you to prove Raids in this game are somehow special and offer a unique feel from other games.

    Good Luck.

    So you are agreeing that your entire argument is based on 1 fight. Works for me.

    So you are admitting you can't explain how they are intrinsically different,. Works for me.

    Are we done now?

    Sabatha, no tank mechanic.

    You can have someone stand in her "hit box" and lock up some of her abilities, which is a Typical Tank move. So.. she can be tanked to a point.. bumped off the pillar at the first one, and that's really not a good start. I don't care to continue this, and I am not being pandering at this point, but I used TERA as a joke, they don't really have raids.. They have BAM's, for large group events (World Bosses of sorts, it's a signature part of their game) and they have 1, count it.. 1, 10 person dungeon and that is considered a joke.. and still you struggled to find something that made GW2's 10 person instance special in comparison to a game that not much beyond a cheap panty shot grinder.

    I am scared to think how bad you would stumble if I used a game with actual raids like LotRo, Wildstar, FF14, DDO, EQ2, etc.

    So after all this, you basically used another game as a joke, then went on about your superior raid knowledge...

    Imagine someone with 0 clue of both games reading all this without you getting called out on this? You should feel ashamed.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    No.. You should have never talked about a game you knew nothing about.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 15, 2017
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    No.. You should have never talked about a game you knew nothing about.

    You brought the game up. What are you talking about? I even stated that I only did a basic google search which already showed the game design and encounter design to be vastly different.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    No.. You should have never talked about a game you knew nothing about.

    You brought the game up. What are you talking about? I even stated that I only did a basic google search which already showed the game design and encounter design to be vastly different.

    So let me see if I got this right.. you walk into the discussion.. admit you know nothing but yet hope that you will beat someone with knowledge of both.

    You know, before I raid, I try to get a clue before i walk in, You might want to try that with forum discussion, I don't know, running in blind hoping to win might be how you roll tho, I feel bad for your raid group.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    No.. You should have never talked about a game you knew nothing about.

    You brought the game up. What are you talking about? I even stated that I only did a basic google search which already showed the game design and encounter design to be vastly different.

    So let me see if I got this right.. you walk into the discussion.. admit you know nothing but yet hope that you will beat someone with knowledge of both.

    You know, before I raid, I try to get a clue before i walk in, You might want to try that with forum discussion, I don't know, running in blind hoping to win might be how you roll tho, I feel bad for your raid group.

    I walked into the discussion having knowledge about raids in gw2, which is what this is actually about.

    You started talking about other games raids and brought up TERA. Which I indulged.

    You now decided to call it all off as a joke because, well I don't even know why. With now trying to point blame at me? Wow.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 15, 2017

    Sorry.. done with this.

  • We need both easy and hard modes

    I'm one of the people who has to try balance gaming time with a fulltime job. My working hours have meant I'm never available at the same times as all my friends are, so we've found it impossible to set up our own group, and indeed every other possible group I've looked into raids on days/at times when I'm still trawling my way home from work. I really miss the days when I'd do Urgoz's Warren or the other 12-man elite missions from GW1. They were challenging, but not crazily so. You needed a good comp set-up, but they didn't take so long that you couldn't fit them in easily on an evening. Carrying a newbie along so they could "learn on the job" was easy enough that I never had any reservations about encouraging guildies to give the elite missions a go.

    I've no interest in GW2's Legendary Armor, LI is a meaningless and wasted currency for me, so the suggestion of easymode having no LI reward suits me perfect and I'm sure that's the same for a lot of others. I do however really like a lot of the earnable skins from the raids, and would have no problems with going for an easymode run with lower rewards, but which would let me steadily work towards those skins even if it takes me longer overall. And not only that but also allow me to experience the story and lore in the raids, when story and lore are two things I love about this game.

    The Vale Guardian easymode suggested alterations really clicked with me, since the biggest frustration I've had with that fight in the few times I've actually bothered to raid, is that for the opening boss of the opening wing, the green circle mechanic is excruciatingly punishing while you're learning. Especially when you consider how easy Goreseval is by comparison in terms of the number of mechanics he has. Having it do damage, but not be an insta-wipe, would go a long long way towards letting newcomers learn that fight while still having a chance to recover from mistakes during it. I can think of a number of friends who would love the chance to learn to raid, but have zero chance of being able to dedicate the time to that which it needs with the current way things are.

    So yeah, I'd love an easymode version with lower rewards, just as I have friends who would relish having a challenge-mode version of the existing encounters. I can only hope Anet seriously considers giving the idea some thought.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    No.. You should have never talked about a game you knew nothing about.

    You brought the game up. What are you talking about? I even stated that I only did a basic google search which already showed the game design and encounter design to be vastly different.

    So let me see if I got this right.. you walk into the discussion.. admit you know nothing but yet hope that you will beat someone with knowledge of both.

    You know, before I raid, I try to get a clue before i walk in, You might want to try that with forum discussion, I don't know, running in blind hoping to win might be how you roll tho, I feel bad for your raid group.

    I walked into the discussion having knowledge about raids in gw2, which is what this is actually about.

    You started talking about other games raids and brought up TERA. Which I indulged.

    You now decided to call it all off as a joke because, well I don't even know why. With now trying to point blame at me? Wow.

    The discussion was about Raids in GW2, vs Raids in other games. You only had half the knowledge to have a civil discussion. That is a faulting on your part.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 16, 2017
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    No.. You should have never talked about a game you knew nothing about.

    You brought the game up. What are you talking about? I even stated that I only did a basic google search which already showed the game design and encounter design to be vastly different.

    So let me see if I got this right.. you walk into the discussion.. admit you know nothing but yet hope that you will beat someone with knowledge of both.

    You know, before I raid, I try to get a clue before i walk in, You might want to try that with forum discussion, I don't know, running in blind hoping to win might be how you roll tho, I feel bad for your raid group.

    I walked into the discussion having knowledge about raids in gw2, which is what this is actually about.

    You started talking about other games raids and brought up TERA. Which I indulged.

    You now decided to call it all off as a joke because, well I don't even know why. With now trying to point blame at me? Wow.

    The discussion was about Raids in GW2, vs Raids in other games. You only had half the knowledge to have a civil discussion. That is a faulting on your part.

    As mentioned my rading experience includes games as far back as DAoC (DAoC, WoW, Aion) as well as every boss in GW2.

    You decided to bring up TERA and when asked to provide examples how they (TERA raids) are similar to GW2 even though the game is designed completely differently (30 man raids, tank and spank, progressive gearing) you decided to get personal and change the topic (aka abandon your TERA example). Part of your civil discussion was now removed. The rest can be read in this thread up to this point.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 16, 2017
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    double post

  • Kuulpb.5412Kuulpb.5412 Member ✭✭✭
    We need an easy mode, but not a hard mode

    As someone who previously wanted ( and semi still wants) a story raid mode. I have to say - After beginning to raid properly as I previously had done some bosses, ( it honestly isn't that hard, I've been joining pugs, a few of them are censored words but a few are nice.) I can say Raids Can be difficult for Pugs, and as someone not very social, pugging is a bit of an emotionally draining thing ( I have to try and not be rude to people, not my fault if they're idiots) BUT it is rewarding when you kill a boss. Over the past 48 hours I've killed Slothasor, Matthias, finished escort, killed VG and gorseval and almost killed KC (who Is all I need for armour :D), so it's not THAT hard to get into raiding, I'd probably be wrong, but I recommend that people start as a dps thing so they don't have to focus on the team much, just on boss mechanics etc.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:
    As someone who previously wanted ( and semi still wants) a story raid mode. I have to say - After beginning to raid properly as I previously had done some bosses, ( it honestly isn't that hard, I've been joining pugs, a few of them are censored words but a few are nice.) I can say Raids Can be difficult for Pugs, and as someone not very social, pugging is a bit of an emotionally draining thing ( I have to try and not be rude to people, not my fault if they're idiots) BUT it is rewarding when you kill a boss. Over the past 48 hours I've killed Slothasor, Matthias, finished escort, killed VG and gorseval and almost killed KC (who Is all I need for armour :D), so it's not THAT hard to get into raiding, I'd probably be wrong, but I recommend that people start as a dps thing so they don't have to focus on the team much, just on boss mechanics etc.

    Starting as dps is in general considered the easiest way so that is a good idea.

    Congratulations on actively starting to raid. Don't worry about the PUGs that are idiots, you'll meet those type of players in every game mode.

    My recommendation would be, try to find a nice guild and start playing with them. Not only will this be less draining on your nerves but will make the entire process also more fun.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    We need an easy mode, but not a hard mode

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Starting as dps is in general considered the easiest way so that is a good idea.

    Either that, or banner warrior. And if you start as dps, it's probably best to pick one of the easier rotation classes (like soulbeast) initially. Weaver for example has a rotation that can be challenging for some even under perfect circumstances, so probably is not a good first choice unless you're already well used to it.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 16, 2017

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    No.. You should have never talked about a game you knew nothing about.

    You brought the game up. What are you talking about? I even stated that I only did a basic google search which already showed the game design and encounter design to be vastly different.

    So let me see if I got this right.. you walk into the discussion.. admit you know nothing but yet hope that you will beat someone with knowledge of both.

    You know, before I raid, I try to get a clue before i walk in, You might want to try that with forum discussion, I don't know, running in blind hoping to win might be how you roll tho, I feel bad for your raid group.

    I walked into the discussion having knowledge about raids in gw2, which is what this is actually about.

    You started talking about other games raids and brought up TERA. Which I indulged.

    You now decided to call it all off as a joke because, well I don't even know why. With now trying to point blame at me? Wow.

    The discussion was about Raids in GW2, vs Raids in other games. You only had half the knowledge to have a civil discussion. That is a faulting on your part.

    As mentioned my rading experience includes games as far back as DAoC (DAoC, WoW, Aion) as well as every boss in GW2.

    You decided to bring up TERA and when asked to provide examples how they (TERA raids) are similar to GW2 even though the game is designed completely differently (30 man raids, tank and spank, progressive gearing) you decided to get personal and change the topic (aka abandon your TERA example). Part of your civil discussion was now removed. The rest can be read in this thread up to this point.

    If yo didn't know anything about TERA, you should have stepped down and let someone who did, deal with it, as opposed to trying to be the hero and jumping into a discussion you were ill prepared to have.

    The Gear Tredmill, as I said before, is irrelevant, GW2 did not have a gear treadmill before Raids, in fact, making a QoL gear upgrade like legendary Armor be raid exclusive, makes GW2, far more akin to TERA then it used to be. Which makes Raids yet another step back and in the wrong direction IMHO, (but, I;m gonna trust Anet on this.. As I don't think they want to kill their game)

    With all that Said.

    No.. you changed the topic by saying that people who object to raids in GW2 never raided, which was flatly wrong, and That also was your mistake.

    and I see you are determined to continue down it. NO.. we are done, unless you get back on topic.

  • Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    No.. You should have never talked about a game you knew nothing about.

    You brought the game up. What are you talking about? I even stated that I only did a basic google search which already showed the game design and encounter design to be vastly different.

    So let me see if I got this right.. you walk into the discussion.. admit you know nothing but yet hope that you will beat someone with knowledge of both.

    You know, before I raid, I try to get a clue before i walk in, You might want to try that with forum discussion, I don't know, running in blind hoping to win might be how you roll tho, I feel bad for your raid group.

    I walked into the discussion having knowledge about raids in gw2, which is what this is actually about.

    You started talking about other games raids and brought up TERA. Which I indulged.

    You now decided to call it all off as a joke because, well I don't even know why. With now trying to point blame at me? Wow.

    The discussion was about Raids in GW2, vs Raids in other games. You only had half the knowledge to have a civil discussion. That is a faulting on your part.

    As mentioned my rading experience includes games as far back as DAoC (DAoC, WoW, Aion) as well as every boss in GW2.

    You decided to bring up TERA and when asked to provide examples how they (TERA raids) are similar to GW2 even though the game is designed completely differently (30 man raids, tank and spank, progressive gearing) you decided to get personal and change the topic (aka abandon your TERA example). Part of your civil discussion was now removed. The rest can be read in this thread up to this point.

    If yo didn't know anything about TERA, you should have stepped down and let someone who did, deal with it, as opposed to trying to be the hero and jumping into a discussion you were ill prepared to have.

    The Gear Tredmill, as I said before, is irrelevant, GW2 did not have a gear treadmill before Raids, in fact, making a QoL gear upgrade like legendary Armor be raid exclusive, makes GW2, far more akin to TERA then it used to be. Which makes Raids yet another step back and in the wrong direction.

    No.. you changed the topic by saying that people who object to raids in GW2 never raided. That also was your mistake.

    Fractals were in the game long before raids, and that is the only 'forced' gear treadmill in the game.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Chris McSwag.4683 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    No.. You should have never talked about a game you knew nothing about.

    You brought the game up. What are you talking about? I even stated that I only did a basic google search which already showed the game design and encounter design to be vastly different.

    So let me see if I got this right.. you walk into the discussion.. admit you know nothing but yet hope that you will beat someone with knowledge of both.

    You know, before I raid, I try to get a clue before i walk in, You might want to try that with forum discussion, I don't know, running in blind hoping to win might be how you roll tho, I feel bad for your raid group.

    I walked into the discussion having knowledge about raids in gw2, which is what this is actually about.

    You started talking about other games raids and brought up TERA. Which I indulged.

    You now decided to call it all off as a joke because, well I don't even know why. With now trying to point blame at me? Wow.

    The discussion was about Raids in GW2, vs Raids in other games. You only had half the knowledge to have a civil discussion. That is a faulting on your part.

    As mentioned my rading experience includes games as far back as DAoC (DAoC, WoW, Aion) as well as every boss in GW2.

    You decided to bring up TERA and when asked to provide examples how they (TERA raids) are similar to GW2 even though the game is designed completely differently (30 man raids, tank and spank, progressive gearing) you decided to get personal and change the topic (aka abandon your TERA example). Part of your civil discussion was now removed. The rest can be read in this thread up to this point.

    If yo didn't know anything about TERA, you should have stepped down and let someone who did, deal with it, as opposed to trying to be the hero and jumping into a discussion you were ill prepared to have.

    The Gear Tredmill, as I said before, is irrelevant, GW2 did not have a gear treadmill before Raids, in fact, making a QoL gear upgrade like legendary Armor be raid exclusive, makes GW2, far more akin to TERA then it used to be. Which makes Raids yet another step back and in the wrong direction.

    No.. you changed the topic by saying that people who object to raids in GW2 never raided. That also was your mistake.

    Fractals were in the game long before raids, and that is the only 'forced' gear treadmill in the game.

    Fractals were just skins.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    Fractals were just skins.

    You have no clue.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Chris McSwag.4683 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    No.. You should have never talked about a game you knew nothing about.

    You brought the game up. What are you talking about? I even stated that I only did a basic google search which already showed the game design and encounter design to be vastly different.

    So let me see if I got this right.. you walk into the discussion.. admit you know nothing but yet hope that you will beat someone with knowledge of both.

    You know, before I raid, I try to get a clue before i walk in, You might want to try that with forum discussion, I don't know, running in blind hoping to win might be how you roll tho, I feel bad for your raid group.

    I walked into the discussion having knowledge about raids in gw2, which is what this is actually about.

    You started talking about other games raids and brought up TERA. Which I indulged.

    You now decided to call it all off as a joke because, well I don't even know why. With now trying to point blame at me? Wow.

    The discussion was about Raids in GW2, vs Raids in other games. You only had half the knowledge to have a civil discussion. That is a faulting on your part.

    As mentioned my rading experience includes games as far back as DAoC (DAoC, WoW, Aion) as well as every boss in GW2.

    You decided to bring up TERA and when asked to provide examples how they (TERA raids) are similar to GW2 even though the game is designed completely differently (30 man raids, tank and spank, progressive gearing) you decided to get personal and change the topic (aka abandon your TERA example). Part of your civil discussion was now removed. The rest can be read in this thread up to this point.

    If yo didn't know anything about TERA, you should have stepped down and let someone who did, deal with it, as opposed to trying to be the hero and jumping into a discussion you were ill prepared to have.

    The Gear Tredmill, as I said before, is irrelevant, GW2 did not have a gear treadmill before Raids, in fact, making a QoL gear upgrade like legendary Armor be raid exclusive, makes GW2, far more akin to TERA then it used to be. Which makes Raids yet another step back and in the wrong direction.

    No.. you changed the topic by saying that people who object to raids in GW2 never raided. That also was your mistake.

    Fractals were in the game long before raids, and that is the only 'forced' gear treadmill in the game.

    Fractals were just skins.

    Raids are just skins too. And he was talking about AR, which is the closest thing to gear treadmill this game has.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Chris McSwag.4683 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    No.. You should have never talked about a game you knew nothing about.

    You brought the game up. What are you talking about? I even stated that I only did a basic google search which already showed the game design and encounter design to be vastly different.

    So let me see if I got this right.. you walk into the discussion.. admit you know nothing but yet hope that you will beat someone with knowledge of both.

    You know, before I raid, I try to get a clue before i walk in, You might want to try that with forum discussion, I don't know, running in blind hoping to win might be how you roll tho, I feel bad for your raid group.

    I walked into the discussion having knowledge about raids in gw2, which is what this is actually about.

    You started talking about other games raids and brought up TERA. Which I indulged.

    You now decided to call it all off as a joke because, well I don't even know why. With now trying to point blame at me? Wow.

    The discussion was about Raids in GW2, vs Raids in other games. You only had half the knowledge to have a civil discussion. That is a faulting on your part.

    As mentioned my rading experience includes games as far back as DAoC (DAoC, WoW, Aion) as well as every boss in GW2.

    You decided to bring up TERA and when asked to provide examples how they (TERA raids) are similar to GW2 even though the game is designed completely differently (30 man raids, tank and spank, progressive gearing) you decided to get personal and change the topic (aka abandon your TERA example). Part of your civil discussion was now removed. The rest can be read in this thread up to this point.

    If yo didn't know anything about TERA, you should have stepped down and let someone who did, deal with it, as opposed to trying to be the hero and jumping into a discussion you were ill prepared to have.

    The Gear Tredmill, as I said before, is irrelevant, GW2 did not have a gear treadmill before Raids, in fact, making a QoL gear upgrade like legendary Armor be raid exclusive, makes GW2, far more akin to TERA then it used to be. Which makes Raids yet another step back and in the wrong direction.

    No.. you changed the topic by saying that people who object to raids in GW2 never raided. That also was your mistake.

    Fractals were in the game long before raids, and that is the only 'forced' gear treadmill in the game.

    Fractals were just skins.

    Raids are just skins too. And he was talking about AR, which is the closest thing to gear treadmill this game has.

    No.. the stat change ability of Legendary is a direct QoL feature, that marks it as distinctly better then ascended.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vinceman.4572 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    Fractals were just skins.

    You have no clue.

    I understand the massive and very pronounced difference between a hard gear check and a gear treadmill. Fractals have a hard gear check, not a gear treadmill.

  • Chris McSwag.4683Chris McSwag.4683 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 16, 2017
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Chris McSwag.4683 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    No.. You should have never talked about a game you knew nothing about.

    You brought the game up. What are you talking about? I even stated that I only did a basic google search which already showed the game design and encounter design to be vastly different.

    So let me see if I got this right.. you walk into the discussion.. admit you know nothing but yet hope that you will beat someone with knowledge of both.

    You know, before I raid, I try to get a clue before i walk in, You might want to try that with forum discussion, I don't know, running in blind hoping to win might be how you roll tho, I feel bad for your raid group.

    I walked into the discussion having knowledge about raids in gw2, which is what this is actually about.

    You started talking about other games raids and brought up TERA. Which I indulged.

    You now decided to call it all off as a joke because, well I don't even know why. With now trying to point blame at me? Wow.

    The discussion was about Raids in GW2, vs Raids in other games. You only had half the knowledge to have a civil discussion. That is a faulting on your part.

    As mentioned my rading experience includes games as far back as DAoC (DAoC, WoW, Aion) as well as every boss in GW2.

    You decided to bring up TERA and when asked to provide examples how they (TERA raids) are similar to GW2 even though the game is designed completely differently (30 man raids, tank and spank, progressive gearing) you decided to get personal and change the topic (aka abandon your TERA example). Part of your civil discussion was now removed. The rest can be read in this thread up to this point.

    If yo didn't know anything about TERA, you should have stepped down and let someone who did, deal with it, as opposed to trying to be the hero and jumping into a discussion you were ill prepared to have.

    The Gear Tredmill, as I said before, is irrelevant, GW2 did not have a gear treadmill before Raids, in fact, making a QoL gear upgrade like legendary Armor be raid exclusive, makes GW2, far more akin to TERA then it used to be. Which makes Raids yet another step back and in the wrong direction.

    No.. you changed the topic by saying that people who object to raids in GW2 never raided. That also was your mistake.

    Fractals were in the game long before raids, and that is the only 'forced' gear treadmill in the game.

    Fractals were just skins.

    Irrelevant, and not correct.
    A gear treadmill refers to the continued grind in order to get stronger and stronger gear. This does not exist in GW2, as it caps on ascended stats. Fractals, and in particular the higher levels, forces the player to have ascended gear with infusions in order to be able to complete the content. Thats about as close to a treadmill as you get in this game.
    Raids do not do this, thus the discussion about raids introducing a gear treadmill is pretty much invalid from the start. Raids did not introduce a gear treadmill, but it did offer a long term qol-reward IF you decide to craft.

    I don't expect you, as one of the most vocal members of the anti-raid community, to agree - but that doesnt really change anything in the actual matter.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 16, 2017

    LOL, It seems you all do not get what a Gear treadmill is. It' the introduction of better gear, for players to grind after. Ergo.. legendary items with it's direct QoL Stat Change features is a classic example of a Gear Treadmill feature. (This is different then AR which is a Hard Gear check for Fractals)

    Now, I refuse to believe that people really are this out of it, so I am going to write this off and just people being irrational in their defense for their love of raids.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 16, 2017
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    LOL, It seems you all do not get what a Gear treadmill is. It' the introduction of better gear, for players to grind after. Ergo.. legendary items with it's direct QoL Stat Change features is a classic example of a Gear Treadmill feature. (This is different then AR which is a Hard Gear check for Fractals)

    Now, I refuse to believe that people really are this out of it, so I am going to write this off and just people being irrational in their defense for their love of raids.

    Since a legendary item is effectively 5-6 times the cost per slot compared to ascended (in case of armor, weapons it's approximately 10-20 times the cost), and there is currently approximately 4 different endgame stat sets available (and stat changing on ascended items exists), and there is a huge benefit to owning multiple ascended sets versus 1 legendary set in both management and changing of specs: can we consider legendary gear an actual downgrade to ascended gear?

    It's by far not a gear treadmill, it didn't push stats and it most certainly is not required. On the contrary, the main benefit of legendary gear (weapons included, but let's not get into Sigils here) is visual. This holds even truer when comparing Living World Season 3 accessibility for trinkets versus the cost of only 1 legendary trinket.

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Chris McSwag.4683 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    No.. You should have never talked about a game you knew nothing about.

    You brought the game up. What are you talking about? I even stated that I only did a basic google search which already showed the game design and encounter design to be vastly different.

    So let me see if I got this right.. you walk into the discussion.. admit you know nothing but yet hope that you will beat someone with knowledge of both.

    You know, before I raid, I try to get a clue before i walk in, You might want to try that with forum discussion, I don't know, running in blind hoping to win might be how you roll tho, I feel bad for your raid group.

    I walked into the discussion having knowledge about raids in gw2, which is what this is actually about.

    You started talking about other games raids and brought up TERA. Which I indulged.

    You now decided to call it all off as a joke because, well I don't even know why. With now trying to point blame at me? Wow.

    The discussion was about Raids in GW2, vs Raids in other games. You only had half the knowledge to have a civil discussion. That is a faulting on your part.

    As mentioned my rading experience includes games as far back as DAoC (DAoC, WoW, Aion) as well as every boss in GW2.

    You decided to bring up TERA and when asked to provide examples how they (TERA raids) are similar to GW2 even though the game is designed completely differently (30 man raids, tank and spank, progressive gearing) you decided to get personal and change the topic (aka abandon your TERA example). Part of your civil discussion was now removed. The rest can be read in this thread up to this point.

    If yo didn't know anything about TERA, you should have stepped down and let someone who did, deal with it, as opposed to trying to be the hero and jumping into a discussion you were ill prepared to have.

    The Gear Tredmill, as I said before, is irrelevant, GW2 did not have a gear treadmill before Raids, in fact, making a QoL gear upgrade like legendary Armor be raid exclusive, makes GW2, far more akin to TERA then it used to be. Which makes Raids yet another step back and in the wrong direction.

    No.. you changed the topic by saying that people who object to raids in GW2 never raided. That also was your mistake.

    Fractals were in the game long before raids, and that is the only 'forced' gear treadmill in the game.

    Fractals were just skins.

    Fractals launched as only method of ascended ring acquisition. That's more gear treadmill than you silly legendary gear example.

  • Coconut.7082Coconut.7082 Member ✭✭✭

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    LOL, It seems you all do not get what a Gear treadmill is. It' the introduction of better gear, for players to grind after. Ergo.. legendary items with it's direct QoL Stat Change features is a classic example of a Gear Treadmill feature. (This is different then AR which is a Hard Gear check for Fractals)

    Now, I refuse to believe that people really are this out of it, so I am going to write this off and just people being irrational in their defense for their love of raids.

    So you are saying that a QoL feature meant for saving inventory space is comparable to gear that makes your character stronger, sometimes deciding the difference between success and failure of a player?

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Chris McSwag.4683 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    No.. You should have never talked about a game you knew nothing about.

    You brought the game up. What are you talking about? I even stated that I only did a basic google search which already showed the game design and encounter design to be vastly different.

    So let me see if I got this right.. you walk into the discussion.. admit you know nothing but yet hope that you will beat someone with knowledge of both.

    You know, before I raid, I try to get a clue before i walk in, You might want to try that with forum discussion, I don't know, running in blind hoping to win might be how you roll tho, I feel bad for your raid group.

    I walked into the discussion having knowledge about raids in gw2, which is what this is actually about.

    You started talking about other games raids and brought up TERA. Which I indulged.

    You now decided to call it all off as a joke because, well I don't even know why. With now trying to point blame at me? Wow.

    The discussion was about Raids in GW2, vs Raids in other games. You only had half the knowledge to have a civil discussion. That is a faulting on your part.

    As mentioned my rading experience includes games as far back as DAoC (DAoC, WoW, Aion) as well as every boss in GW2.

    You decided to bring up TERA and when asked to provide examples how they (TERA raids) are similar to GW2 even though the game is designed completely differently (30 man raids, tank and spank, progressive gearing) you decided to get personal and change the topic (aka abandon your TERA example). Part of your civil discussion was now removed. The rest can be read in this thread up to this point.

    If yo didn't know anything about TERA, you should have stepped down and let someone who did, deal with it, as opposed to trying to be the hero and jumping into a discussion you were ill prepared to have.

    The Gear Tredmill, as I said before, is irrelevant, GW2 did not have a gear treadmill before Raids, in fact, making a QoL gear upgrade like legendary Armor be raid exclusive, makes GW2, far more akin to TERA then it used to be. Which makes Raids yet another step back and in the wrong direction.

    No.. you changed the topic by saying that people who object to raids in GW2 never raided. That also was your mistake.

    Fractals were in the game long before raids, and that is the only 'forced' gear treadmill in the game.

    Fractals were just skins.

    Raids are just skins too. And he was talking about AR, which is the closest thing to gear treadmill this game has.

    No.. the stat change ability of Legendary is a direct QoL feature, that marks it as distinctly better then ascended.

    The stat change is vastly overrated by the anti-raid crowd. The price of the legendary gear makes it a strictly luxury choice, as stat-swapping is available and orders of magnitude cheaper in the Mystic Forge. Legendaries were never a distinct tier and armor didn't change that.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 16, 2017

    @Coconut.7082 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    LOL, It seems you all do not get what a Gear treadmill is. It' the introduction of better gear, for players to grind after. Ergo.. legendary items with it's direct QoL Stat Change features is a classic example of a Gear Treadmill feature. (This is different then AR which is a Hard Gear check for Fractals)

    Now, I refuse to believe that people really are this out of it, so I am going to write this off and just people being irrational in their defense for their love of raids.

    So you are saying that a QoL feature meant for saving inventory space is comparable to gear that makes your character stronger, sometimes deciding the difference between success and failure of a player?

    let me repeat myself.

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    LOL, It seems you all do not get what a Gear treadmill is. It' the introduction of better gear, for players to grind after. Ergo.. legendary items with it's direct QoL Stat Change features is a classic example of a Gear Treadmill feature. (This is different then AR which is a Hard Gear check for Fractals)

    Now, I refuse to believe that people really are this out of it, so I am going to write this off and just people being irrational in their defense for their love of raids.

    You can take this as you will. But I am not going to waste time with strawmen.

  • Coconut.7082Coconut.7082 Member ✭✭✭

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Coconut.7082 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    LOL, It seems you all do not get what a Gear treadmill is. It' the introduction of better gear, for players to grind after. Ergo.. legendary items with it's direct QoL Stat Change features is a classic example of a Gear Treadmill feature. (This is different then AR which is a Hard Gear check for Fractals)

    Now, I refuse to believe that people really are this out of it, so I am going to write this off and just people being irrational in their defense for their love of raids.

    So you are saying that a QoL feature meant for saving inventory space is comparable to gear that makes your character stronger, sometimes deciding the difference between success and failure of a player?

    let me repeat myself.

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    LOL, It seems you all do not get what a Gear treadmill is. It' the introduction of better gear, for players to grind after. Ergo.. legendary items with it's direct QoL Stat Change features is a classic example of a Gear Treadmill feature. (This is different then AR which is a Hard Gear check for Fractals)

    Now, I refuse to believe that people really are this out of it, so I am going to write this off and just people being irrational in their defense for their love of raids.

    You can take this as you will. But I am not going to waste time with strawmen.

    Maybe you should read again, you can call both examples "gear treadmill" or w/e name you like, but is it really comparable?

    I won't waste my time on a strawman either, I'll just go and enjoy my exclusive legendary raid armor ^^

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Coconut.7082 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    LOL, It seems you all do not get what a Gear treadmill is. It' the introduction of better gear, for players to grind after. Ergo.. legendary items with it's direct QoL Stat Change features is a classic example of a Gear Treadmill feature. (This is different then AR which is a Hard Gear check for Fractals)

    Now, I refuse to believe that people really are this out of it, so I am going to write this off and just people being irrational in their defense for their love of raids.

    So you are saying that a QoL feature meant for saving inventory space is comparable to gear that makes your character stronger, sometimes deciding the difference between success and failure of a player?

    let me repeat myself.

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    LOL, It seems you all do not get what a Gear treadmill is. It' the introduction of better gear, for players to grind after. Ergo.. legendary items with it's direct QoL Stat Change features is a classic example of a Gear Treadmill feature. (This is different then AR which is a Hard Gear check for Fractals)

    Now, I refuse to believe that people really are this out of it, so I am going to write this off and just people being irrational in their defense for their love of raids.

    You can take this as you will. But I am not going to waste time with strawmen.

    YOU BROUGHT IT UP, once again. People are disagreeing on what you said because it's nonsense. Same as with raiding and similarities to TERA (which you still haven't backed up in any way). Once people disagree and bring actual arguments you feel pressured and back out shifting blame.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Coconut.7082 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    LOL, It seems you all do not get what a Gear treadmill is. It' the introduction of better gear, for players to grind after. Ergo.. legendary items with it's direct QoL Stat Change features is a classic example of a Gear Treadmill feature. (This is different then AR which is a Hard Gear check for Fractals)

    Now, I refuse to believe that people really are this out of it, so I am going to write this off and just people being irrational in their defense for their love of raids.

    So you are saying that a QoL feature meant for saving inventory space is comparable to gear that makes your character stronger, sometimes deciding the difference between success and failure of a player?

    let me repeat myself.

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    LOL, It seems you all do not get what a Gear treadmill is. It' the introduction of better gear, for players to grind after. Ergo.. legendary items with it's direct QoL Stat Change features is a classic example of a Gear Treadmill feature. (This is different then AR which is a Hard Gear check for Fractals)

    Now, I refuse to believe that people really are this out of it, so I am going to write this off and just people being irrational in their defense for their love of raids.

    You can take this as you will. But I am not going to waste time with strawmen.

    YOU BROUGHT IT UP, once again. People are disagreeing on what you said because it's nonsense. Same as with raiding and similarities to TERA (which you still haven't backed up in any way). Once people disagree and bring actual arguments you feel pressured and back out shifting blame.

    We have both agreed that VG is a classic tank and spank.. you lost that one.

    If you think just adding words to a discussion will change that.. You would also be wrong.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 16, 2017

    @Coconut.7082 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Coconut.7082 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    LOL, It seems you all do not get what a Gear treadmill is. It' the introduction of better gear, for players to grind after. Ergo.. legendary items with it's direct QoL Stat Change features is a classic example of a Gear Treadmill feature. (This is different then AR which is a Hard Gear check for Fractals)

    Now, I refuse to believe that people really are this out of it, so I am going to write this off and just people being irrational in their defense for their love of raids.

    So you are saying that a QoL feature meant for saving inventory space is comparable to gear that makes your character stronger, sometimes deciding the difference between success and failure of a player?

    let me repeat myself.

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    LOL, It seems you all do not get what a Gear treadmill is. It' the introduction of better gear, for players to grind after. Ergo.. legendary items with it's direct QoL Stat Change features is a classic example of a Gear Treadmill feature. (This is different then AR which is a Hard Gear check for Fractals)

    Now, I refuse to believe that people really are this out of it, so I am going to write this off and just people being irrational in their defense for their love of raids.

    You can take this as you will. But I am not going to waste time with strawmen.

    Maybe you should read again, you can call both examples "gear treadmill" or w/e name you like, but is it really comparable?

    I won't waste my time on a strawman either, I'll just go and enjoy my exclusive legendary raid armor ^^

    Yes, they are both gear treadmills the same way steak and a watermelon are both food. Would really need me to explain how they are both food and yet not incidentally the same?

  • katz.8376katz.8376 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 16, 2017

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    stat changing on ascended items exists

    sure it does. as long as you're willing to outlay the gold to buy/make the inscription/insignia and replace all the runes/sigils/infusions. that could be pretty cheap... just a few gold... or it could get very costly if you have some of the fancier infusions.

    people will and do grind for simple convenience/appearance features... ergo it is in fact a treadmill.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    @katz.8376 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    stat changing on ascended items exists

    sure it does. as long as you're willing to outlay the gold to buy/make the inscription/insignia and replace all the runes/sigils/infusions. that could be pretty cheap... just a few gold... or it could get very costly if you have some of the fancier infusions.

    people will and do grind for simple convenience/appearance features... ergo it is in fact a treadmill.

    Except that you left out my entire part about how getting multiple sets of end gear ascended items is cheaper than getting 1 legendary item. Will owning a legendary eventually make up the difference? Sure, in 2-3 expansions.

  • katz.8376katz.8376 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @katz.8376 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    stat changing on ascended items exists

    sure it does. as long as you're willing to outlay the gold to buy/make the inscription/insignia and replace all the runes/sigils/infusions. that could be pretty cheap... just a few gold... or it could get very costly if you have some of the fancier infusions.

    people will and do grind for simple convenience/appearance features... ergo it is in fact a treadmill.

    Except that you left out my entire part about how getting multiple sets of end gear ascended items is cheaper than getting 1 legendary item. Will owning a legendary eventually make up the difference? Sure, in 2-3 expansions.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Ya know what Cyninja.2954

    Go for it , since you can't let this go.. have at it.. Explain to all of us, how Raids in Gw2, are somehow different then the raids in all the other MMO's like, Wildstar, EQ2, Lord of the Rings Online, FF14, and others.. go for it. You failed miserably with TERA, here is your big chance to shut me down.

    Make it happen, prove to me that Raids in GW2 here are something unique, and special against all the other games with Raids in them.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 16, 2017
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    @katz.8376 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @katz.8376 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    stat changing on ascended items exists

    sure it does. as long as you're willing to outlay the gold to buy/make the inscription/insignia and replace all the runes/sigils/infusions. that could be pretty cheap... just a few gold... or it could get very costly if you have some of the fancier infusions.

    people will and do grind for simple convenience/appearance features... ergo it is in fact a treadmill.

    Except that you left out my entire part about how getting multiple sets of end gear ascended items is cheaper than getting 1 legendary item. Will owning a legendary eventually make up the difference? Sure, in 2-3 expansions.

    So legendary armor is a QoL feature as far as inventory space. Yeah I'd agree to that.

    How does this make it better compared to multiple ascended sets as far as actual cost and functionality? While inventory management is an issue, I doubt it's a bigger issue than gold cost or ease of use as far as changing specs.

    Nice pic, still doesn't address the issue besides some comedic relief.

  • Coconut.7082Coconut.7082 Member ✭✭✭

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Coconut.7082 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Coconut.7082 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    LOL, It seems you all do not get what a Gear treadmill is. It' the introduction of better gear, for players to grind after. Ergo.. legendary items with it's direct QoL Stat Change features is a classic example of a Gear Treadmill feature. (This is different then AR which is a Hard Gear check for Fractals)

    Now, I refuse to believe that people really are this out of it, so I am going to write this off and just people being irrational in their defense for their love of raids.

    So you are saying that a QoL feature meant for saving inventory space is comparable to gear that makes your character stronger, sometimes deciding the difference between success and failure of a player?

    let me repeat myself.

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    LOL, It seems you all do not get what a Gear treadmill is. It' the introduction of better gear, for players to grind after. Ergo.. legendary items with it's direct QoL Stat Change features is a classic example of a Gear Treadmill feature. (This is different then AR which is a Hard Gear check for Fractals)

    Now, I refuse to believe that people really are this out of it, so I am going to write this off and just people being irrational in their defense for their love of raids.

    You can take this as you will. But I am not going to waste time with strawmen.

    Maybe you should read again, you can call both examples "gear treadmill" or w/e name you like, but is it really comparable?

    I won't waste my time on a strawman either, I'll just go and enjoy my exclusive legendary raid armor ^^

    Yes, they are both gear treadmills the same way steak and a watermelon are both food. Would really need me to explain how they are both food and yet not incidentally the same?

    Apples and Oranges B)

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 16, 2017

    @Coconut.7082 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Coconut.7082 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Coconut.7082 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    LOL, It seems you all do not get what a Gear treadmill is. It' the introduction of better gear, for players to grind after. Ergo.. legendary items with it's direct QoL Stat Change features is a classic example of a Gear Treadmill feature. (This is different then AR which is a Hard Gear check for Fractals)

    Now, I refuse to believe that people really are this out of it, so I am going to write this off and just people being irrational in their defense for their love of raids.

    So you are saying that a QoL feature meant for saving inventory space is comparable to gear that makes your character stronger, sometimes deciding the difference between success and failure of a player?

    let me repeat myself.

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    LOL, It seems you all do not get what a Gear treadmill is. It' the introduction of better gear, for players to grind after. Ergo.. legendary items with it's direct QoL Stat Change features is a classic example of a Gear Treadmill feature. (This is different then AR which is a Hard Gear check for Fractals)

    Now, I refuse to believe that people really are this out of it, so I am going to write this off and just people being irrational in their defense for their love of raids.

    You can take this as you will. But I am not going to waste time with strawmen.

    Maybe you should read again, you can call both examples "gear treadmill" or w/e name you like, but is it really comparable?

    I won't waste my time on a strawman either, I'll just go and enjoy my exclusive legendary raid armor ^^

    Yes, they are both gear treadmills the same way steak and a watermelon are both food. Would really need me to explain how they are both food and yet not incidentally the same?

    Apples and Oranges B)

    And yet they are Both Fruit.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Feanor.2358 said:
    Once again the anti-raid crowd is throwing out ridiculous claims and tries to defend them by repetition. Good job!

    I'd love to hear a discussion that Didn't go like this.

    • Raids are Special Unique Content that desrevs it's own rewards.
    • All PvE is PvE. raids are just PvE, Raids are the PvE path!
    • Raids deserve Legendary armor because it is the best in the game.
    • legendary Armor is not that special you don't need it.
  • Oldirtbeard.9834Oldirtbeard.9834 Member ✭✭✭✭
    We need both easy and hard modes

    I find it amusing that Raiders assume that players would clear the Easy Mode once and never go back. How do you explain the World Boss train, how do you explain people still doing Bounties, the HoT Metas, Silver Wastes?

    Just give Raid Finder Raids the same Open World rewards you drop for Bounties, or Silver Wastes; you know people would consistently farm them too on weekly reset.

    How do I know because I consistently do all the repeatable Open World content, been doing this for almost 5 years straight.

    When I play WoW I do Raid Finder every reset, along with Heroics (yep I don't even mess with Mythic 5 Mans), and World Quests; guess what I see tons of people doing all that trash tier stuff there as well.

    I can't fathom what Hardcore Raiders have to complain about, it's just sheer selfishness as this point.

  • Oldirtbeard.9834Oldirtbeard.9834 Member ✭✭✭✭
    We need both easy and hard modes

    I resent that, I took time to think of a unique solution to the Easy Raid argument and even put my proposal together by suggesting mechanics that was already developed, nothing to really do but re-purpose at that point.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    We need an easy mode, but not a hard mode

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    How does this make it better compared to multiple ascended sets as far as actual cost and functionality? While inventory management is an issue, I doubt it's a bigger issue than gold cost or ease of use as far as changing specs.

    If i don't have the space for multiple sets of armor, i don't have the space. Period. In this case, an ability to change the stats becomes invaluable. And no, i won't be changing stats in MF and rebuying the runes everytime i switch between different PvE specs, or between PvE and WvW. I'd go bankrupt within a month (or faster).

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 17, 2017
    We need an easy mode, but not a hard mode

    @Feanor.2358 said:
    Once again the anti-raid crowd is throwing out ridiculous claims and tries to defend them by repetition. Good job!

    Said a person that tries to win an argument by using unsupported claims, that some might even consider to be ridiculous. Good job

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.