Do raids need easy/normal/hard difficulty mode? [merged] - Page 80 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Do raids need easy/normal/hard difficulty mode? [merged]

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  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭
    We need both easy and hard modes

    In Wow doesn’t the lfr raid have a wipe buff so the more you wipe the easier it gets?

    Couldn’t that potentially solve the different scaling of skill? Perhaps one group could finish the the boss with 2 stacks of a buff, while another might use 10. Then you could have people learning the boss better and better but not needing as many stacks of the buff and eventually try normal.

    Then with rewards, have it to what Vince was saying.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Raids have problems, but we need a better solution

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    Couldn’t that potentially solve the different scaling of skill? Perhaps one group could finish the the boss with 2 stacks of a buff, while another might use 10. Then you could have people learning the boss better and better but not needing as many stacks of the buff and eventually try normal.

    It could work on Gorseval for sure, as the team wipes because they don't have enough dps to do no-updraft, they will get the stacks and eventually manage to pull it off. Not sure how it would help with Sabetha's Flamewall or the gliding part at Xera though. A buff that offers more damage / defense wouldn't help very much on lots of our current Raid bosses.

  • Brilliant idea. Raids just like a fractals with Tiers, but only playing high-tier raids would grant you achievements and good rewards.
    People are learning fractals by doing lower (and easier) tiers. Raids could use the same thing. I really want to raid, but everyone expecting me to have KPs, 250 LI+ and (of course) experience. Training groups are myth, zero progress. You need an experience player who will tell you everything about the boss. We could just learn the raid step-by-step from easy mode to hard.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    @Antycypator.9874 said:
    Brilliant idea. Raids just like a fractals with Tiers, but only playing high-tier raids would grant you achievements and good rewards.
    People are learning fractals by doing lower (and easier) tiers. Raids could use the same thing. I really want to raid, but everyone expecting me to have KPs, 250 LI+ and (of course) experience. Training groups are myth, zero progress. You need an experience player who will tell you everything about the boss. We could just learn the raid step-by-step from easy mode to hard.

    Join a guild, really that's not some repeated dogma, it actually works and the added benefit is you usually get to meet a lot of nice people (if you join the correct guild for you).

  • @Vinceman.4572 said:
    Can partially agree but in my opinion easy mode raids are the same wasted resources like a living world episode. We get some parts of story instances and most of the people play it once only to experience the lore.

    And THAT is why raids need to be a lot more accessible to non-raiders in this game .. ANet lock lots of lore and story inside raids, lore and story I and many others never get to see, whereas in WOW we can, without having to endure the rigors of raid guilds and the like.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    @Kraggy.4169 said:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    Can partially agree but in my opinion easy mode raids are the same wasted resources like a living world episode. We get some parts of story instances and most of the people play it once only to experience the lore.

    And THAT is why raids need to be a lot more accessible to non-raiders in this game .. ANet lock lots of lore and story inside raids, lore and story I and many others never get to see, whereas in WOW we can, without having to endure the rigors of raid guilds and the like.

    The amount of lore locked behind raids is minimal (debatable since W6 and the mystic forge while not integral to the main story are dealing with something core to GW2). If you are interested in the lore, watch a Woodenpotatoes video where he goes explaining it all. I've watched his videos even though I've completed all the raids (up to W5 since I can't game atm but will clear W6 once I'm back home).

    Lore is not an argument to spend resources on an easy mode. Trust me when I'm telling you you would be disappointed.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Kraggy.4169 said:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    Can partially agree but in my opinion easy mode raids are the same wasted resources like a living world episode. We get some parts of story instances and most of the people play it once only to experience the lore.

    And THAT is why raids need to be a lot more accessible to non-raiders in this game .. ANet lock lots of lore and story inside raids, lore and story I and many others never get to see, whereas in WOW we can, without having to endure the rigors of raid guilds and the like.

    The amount of lore locked behind raids is minimal (debatable since W6 and the mystic forge while not integral to the main story are dealing with something core to GW2). If you are interested in the lore, watch a Woodenpotatoes video where he goes explaining it all. I've watched his videos even though I've completed all the raids (up to W5 since I can't game atm but will clear W6 once I'm back home).

    Lore is not an argument to spend resources on an easy mode. Trust me when I'm telling you you would be disappointed.

    On the contrary, it is for many people. They want to experience the same content + lore raiders are able at the moment without putting hours of effort and being forced to set up fixed schedules to come together as 10 people. Leave the rewards out, let one LS team develop the easy mode + some (minor) achievements for this mode and we're better off than now.

  • yann.1946yann.1946 Member ✭✭✭
    Raids have problems, but we need a better solution

    @Vinceman.4572 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Kraggy.4169 said:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    Can partially agree but in my opinion easy mode raids are the same wasted resources like a living world episode. We get some parts of story instances and most of the people play it once only to experience the lore.

    And THAT is why raids need to be a lot more accessible to non-raiders in this game .. ANet lock lots of lore and story inside raids, lore and story I and many others never get to see, whereas in WOW we can, without having to endure the rigors of raid guilds and the like.

    The amount of lore locked behind raids is minimal (debatable since W6 and the mystic forge while not integral to the main story are dealing with something core to GW2). If you are interested in the lore, watch a Woodenpotatoes video where he goes explaining it all. I've watched his videos even though I've completed all the raids (up to W5 since I can't game atm but will clear W6 once I'm back home).

    Lore is not an argument to spend resources on an easy mode. Trust me when I'm telling you you would be disappointed.

    On the contrary, it is for many people. They want to experience the same content + lore raiders are able at the moment without putting hours of effort and being forced to set up fixed schedules to come together as 10 people. Leave the rewards out, let one LS team develop the easy mode + some (minor) achievements for this mode and we're better off than now.

    So people would sacrifice lw episodes for it?

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    @yann.1946 said:
    So people would sacrifice lw episodes for it?

    Dunno, I would but I was and still am more addicted to instanced content (in the past). I'd rather have easy mode raids than another map like Domain of Kourna which was a terrible map + achievements. The story was fine but I could easily live without it for another 3 months. ;)

  • yann.1946yann.1946 Member ✭✭✭
    Raids have problems, but we need a better solution

    @Vinceman.4572 said:

    @yann.1946 said:
    So people would sacrifice lw episodes for it?

    Dunno, I would but I was and still am more addicted to instanced content (in the past). I'd rather have easy mode raids than another map like Domain of Kourna which was a terrible map + achievements. The story was fine but I could easily live without it for another 3 months. ;)

    We'll you'll have to choose an average map not the worst :)
    Personally I don't feel like their would be enough people willing to make that sacrifice

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    @yann.1946 said:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:

    @yann.1946 said:
    So people would sacrifice lw episodes for it?

    Dunno, I would but I was and still am more addicted to instanced content (in the past). I'd rather have easy mode raids than another map like Domain of Kourna which was a terrible map + achievements. The story was fine but I could easily live without it for another 3 months. ;)

    We'll you'll have to choose an average map not the worst :)
    Personally I don't feel like their would be enough people willing to make that sacrifice

    Nah, why choosing an average map. The team that made Kourna isn't the best one so from a business perspective - if an easy mode raid is that much wanted - it would be reasonable to give that team a different task.

  • Lucius.2140Lucius.2140 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 23, 2018
    We need both easy and hard modes

    @RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

    @Lonami.2987 said:
    Well, WildStar is officially closing down. Hardcore-only raids being one of the main reasons it flopped spectacularly.

    Wildstar had a lot of serious problems.
    The problem with Hardcore only Content is, that you can only play it with your group.
    Wildstar didnt have a lot of content you could do with pugs. Or a lot of content you wanted to do AT ALL. The loot in this game sucked. Dailys were worthless, crafted gear was better than dungeon and raid gear, meaning that purely ran dungeons to be allowed to raid.

    GW2 doesnt have this problem. You got a lot of other stuff to do + you can pug current raids. You arent forced to wait for you group to actually progress.

    Sci fi with a Borderland spice wasn't going to be a huge success. Add the problems they had at the start and well is goodbye.

    For the Blood Legion! - 11 charr

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭
    We need both easy and hard modes

    I noticed that some people have come around to the idea of an easy mode, in order to have people experience some of the raid settings. I noticed this discussion comes up a lot on Tea time too, who isn’t against an easy mode either. I think should an easy or story mode raid be introduced, people would try it. Especially if you keep the collection achievements that are in the raid wings in easy mode as well. Collecting Zommoros books for example. Hell, add an achievement for beating the boss on easy mode as well. As for the loot, make it drop a couple rares, with the chance at an exotic much like a world boss event. Legendary Armor/ trinkets would have to be restricted to the normal mode though.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭
    We need both easy and hard modes

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    I noticed that some people have come around to the idea of an easy mode, in order to have people experience some of the raid settings. I noticed this discussion comes up a lot on Tea time too, who isn’t against an easy mode either. I think should an easy or story mode raid be introduced, people would try it. Especially if you keep the collection achievements that are in the raid wings in easy mode as well. Collecting Zommoros books for example. Hell, add an achievement for beating the boss on easy mode as well. As for the loot, make it drop a couple rares, with the chance at an exotic much like a world boss event. Legendary Armor/ trinkets would have to be restricted to the normal mode though.

    Most raiders wouldn't object on this, provided they receive some reassurance it won't slow down future releases. Borrowing resources from other departments for instance, like it was suggested. I dare even say very few would object. But I'm certain there will be those who are unhappy they don't get the raid-exclusive rewards on the easy mode.

    I think if they did add a story/easy mode, the amount of complaints about raids would be reduced for sure. It would cut out the people complaining about not seeing the content. You would still have people complaining about Legendary Armor, but there is more then one avenue to achieve this.

    In terms of borrowing the resources, I think makes sense. When a raid is released there a certain people that don’t even touch it, they know the difficulty is not for them. If there is an easy mode, that’s additional content for them to play, like a new Fractal.

    That being said, I wish they should space the raid content in between living world episodes. I understand that it’s easier to ship everything at one time, but I think it would bring people back to the game more frequently.

  • Turin.6921Turin.6921 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 30, 2018
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    I noticed that some people have come around to the idea of an easy mode, in order to have people experience some of the raid settings. I noticed this discussion comes up a lot on Tea time too, who isn’t against an easy mode either. I think should an easy or story mode raid be introduced, people would try it. Especially if you keep the collection achievements that are in the raid wings in easy mode as well. Collecting Zommoros books for example. Hell, add an achievement for beating the boss on easy mode as well. As for the loot, make it drop a couple rares, with the chance at an exotic much like a world boss event. Legendary Armor/ trinkets would have to be restricted to the normal mode though.

    Most raiders wouldn't object on this, provided they receive some reassurance it won't slow down future releases. Borrowing resources from other departments for instance, like it was suggested. I dare even say very few would object. But I'm certain there will be those who are unhappy they don't get the raid-exclusive rewards on the easy mode.

    I think if they did add a story/easy mode, the amount of complaints about raids would be reduced for sure. It would cut out the people complaining about not seeing the content. You would still have people complaining about Legendary Armor, but there is more then one avenue to achieve this.

    In terms of borrowing the resources, I think makes sense. When a raid is released there a certain people that don’t even touch it, they know the difficulty is not for them. If there is an easy mode, that’s additional content for them to play, like a new Fractal.

    That being said, I wish they should space the raid content in between living world episodes. I understand that it’s easier to ship everything at one time, but I think it would bring people back to the game more frequently.

    This whole conversation is a bit moot at this point. Seeing Wing 6 it is pretty obvious that Anet does not want to add more resources to the raids development and their solution for people wanting easier raids is to create a mix of easy and tough bosses. The HoT raids wings were roughly of equal challenge. W4 was an outlier cause of not enough QA (Crystal Reid did mentioned that w4 ended up with mostly easy bosses cause of lack of time for QA). Then in the PoF raids we see W5 that is admittedly the toughest wing and Wing 6 that is pretty much easy mode. Both having a good deal of time to develop.

    In the end of the day people that actually want easy modes should at least flock to wing 6 ( which are pretty fun encounters in the own right). If wing 6 has more participation by players that did not raid in the past then that is a good incentive for Anet to continue with adding easier bosses and even make a good case for the easy mode. If people keep this attitude of "the difficulty is not for them" when it is obviously designed to be easier then they only thing they show is that they just want a raids with open world difficulty that will not be a raid encounter any more and not really present any incentive for the devs to accommodate them.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭
    We need both easy and hard modes

    @Turin.6921 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    I noticed that some people have come around to the idea of an easy mode, in order to have people experience some of the raid settings. I noticed this discussion comes up a lot on Tea time too, who isn’t against an easy mode either. I think should an easy or story mode raid be introduced, people would try it. Especially if you keep the collection achievements that are in the raid wings in easy mode as well. Collecting Zommoros books for example. Hell, add an achievement for beating the boss on easy mode as well. As for the loot, make it drop a couple rares, with the chance at an exotic much like a world boss event. Legendary Armor/ trinkets would have to be restricted to the normal mode though.

    Most raiders wouldn't object on this, provided they receive some reassurance it won't slow down future releases. Borrowing resources from other departments for instance, like it was suggested. I dare even say very few would object. But I'm certain there will be those who are unhappy they don't get the raid-exclusive rewards on the easy mode.

    I think if they did add a story/easy mode, the amount of complaints about raids would be reduced for sure. It would cut out the people complaining about not seeing the content. You would still have people complaining about Legendary Armor, but there is more then one avenue to achieve this.

    In terms of borrowing the resources, I think makes sense. When a raid is released there a certain people that don’t even touch it, they know the difficulty is not for them. If there is an easy mode, that’s additional content for them to play, like a new Fractal.

    That being said, I wish they should space the raid content in between living world episodes. I understand that it’s easier to ship everything at one time, but I think it would bring people back to the game more frequently.

    This whole conversation is a bit moot at this point. Seeing Wing 6 it is pretty obvious that Anet does not want to add more resources to the raids development and their solution for people wanting easier raids is to create a mix of easy and tough bosses. The HoT raids wings were roughly of equal challenge. W4 was an outlier cause of not enough QA (Crystal Reid did mentioned that w4 ended up with mostly easy bosses cause of lack of time for QA). Then in the PoF raids we see W5 that is admittedly the toughest wing and Wing 6 that is pretty much easy mode. Both having a good deal of time to develop.

    In the end of the day people that actually want easy modes should at least flock to wing 6 ( which are pretty fun encounters in the own right). If wing 6 has more participation by players that did not raid in the past then that is a good incentive for Anet to continue with adding easier bosses and even make a good case for the easy mode. If people keep this attitude of "the difficulty is not for them" when it is obviously designed to be easier then they only thing they show is that they just want a raids with open world difficulty that will not be a raid encounter any more and not really present any incentive for the devs to accommodate them.

    I agree with a lot of your points, however if the thinking changed from new raid release, content that’s not for me, to content that people of different skills levels can enjoy, you’ll see people happy to have new content period. It would be similar to droves of people doing new living world season maps and storylines, however this time it’s in the raid lobby. Will some people jump to the normal difficulty, maybe, but I’m sure people would stick with easy mode too, since it’s kinda piggybacking off the normal mode development and would be more bang for Anets buck.

  • Turin.6921Turin.6921 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 30, 2018
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Turin.6921 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    I noticed that some people have come around to the idea of an easy mode, in order to have people experience some of the raid settings. I noticed this discussion comes up a lot on Tea time too, who isn’t against an easy mode either. I think should an easy or story mode raid be introduced, people would try it. Especially if you keep the collection achievements that are in the raid wings in easy mode as well. Collecting Zommoros books for example. Hell, add an achievement for beating the boss on easy mode as well. As for the loot, make it drop a couple rares, with the chance at an exotic much like a world boss event. Legendary Armor/ trinkets would have to be restricted to the normal mode though.

    Most raiders wouldn't object on this, provided they receive some reassurance it won't slow down future releases. Borrowing resources from other departments for instance, like it was suggested. I dare even say very few would object. But I'm certain there will be those who are unhappy they don't get the raid-exclusive rewards on the easy mode.

    I think if they did add a story/easy mode, the amount of complaints about raids would be reduced for sure. It would cut out the people complaining about not seeing the content. You would still have people complaining about Legendary Armor, but there is more then one avenue to achieve this.

    In terms of borrowing the resources, I think makes sense. When a raid is released there a certain people that don’t even touch it, they know the difficulty is not for them. If there is an easy mode, that’s additional content for them to play, like a new Fractal.

    That being said, I wish they should space the raid content in between living world episodes. I understand that it’s easier to ship everything at one time, but I think it would bring people back to the game more frequently.

    This whole conversation is a bit moot at this point. Seeing Wing 6 it is pretty obvious that Anet does not want to add more resources to the raids development and their solution for people wanting easier raids is to create a mix of easy and tough bosses. The HoT raids wings were roughly of equal challenge. W4 was an outlier cause of not enough QA (Crystal Reid did mentioned that w4 ended up with mostly easy bosses cause of lack of time for QA). Then in the PoF raids we see W5 that is admittedly the toughest wing and Wing 6 that is pretty much easy mode. Both having a good deal of time to develop.

    In the end of the day people that actually want easy modes should at least flock to wing 6 ( which are pretty fun encounters in the own right). If wing 6 has more participation by players that did not raid in the past then that is a good incentive for Anet to continue with adding easier bosses and even make a good case for the easy mode. If people keep this attitude of "the difficulty is not for them" when it is obviously designed to be easier then they only thing they show is that they just want a raids with open world difficulty that will not be a raid encounter any more and not really present any incentive for the devs to accommodate them.

    I agree with a lot of your points, however if the thinking changed from new raid release, content that’s not for me, to content that people of different skills levels can enjoy, you’ll see people happy to have new content period. It would be similar to droves of people doing new living world season maps and storylines, however this time it’s in the raid lobby. Will some people jump to the normal difficulty, maybe, but I’m sure people would stick with easy mode too, since it’s kinda piggybacking off the normal mode development and would be more bang for Anets buck.

    Either way it should work (assuming that this is actually what they are doing). No splinting resources, people that actually are serious about trying raiding will get a good way to start raiding smoothly and if they want to go to tougher bosses they can if not they get some content at least. And depending on the audience reaction Anet can either keep the mix of tough and easy or if no new raiders start participating they can adjust accordingly. The success of W6 is basically that even though its pretty easy on normal fights its really fun for everyone. I have seen very few veteran raiders not having fun with it. So a mix can work for everyone as long as they keep the same quality.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    We need an easy mode, but not a hard mode

    @Turin.6921 said:
    The success of W6 is basically that even though its pretty easy on normal fights its really fun for everyone. I have seen very few veteran raiders not having fun with it.

    Even casuals like me are having a fun with it.
    Well, except for boss 2. My slow reaction times makes this one a real pain. I really prefer mechanic-heavy fights to ones that are basically a dodge-fiesta.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Turin.6921Turin.6921 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 2, 2018
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Turin.6921 said:
    The success of W6 is basically that even though its pretty easy on normal fights its really fun for everyone. I have seen very few veteran raiders not having fun with it.

    Even casuals like me are having a fun with it.
    Well, except for boss 2. My slow reaction times makes this one a real pain. I really prefer mechanic-heavy fights to ones that are basically a dodge-fiesta.

    Learn to play mirage. It is definitely the more favorable DPS class for that fight (with the dodges, jaunt and the stunbreak) and really really fun to play it on that boss. Also until you get use to it endurance food can help.

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    @Turin.6921 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Turin.6921 said:
    The success of W6 is basically that even though its pretty easy on normal fights its really fun for everyone. I have seen very few veteran raiders not having fun with it.

    Even casuals like me are having a fun with it.
    Well, except for boss 2. My slow reaction times makes this one a real pain. I really prefer mechanic-heavy fights to ones that are basically a dodge-fiesta.

    Learn to play mirage. It is definitely the more favorable DPS class for that fight (with the dodges, jaunt and the stunbreak) and really really fun to play it on that boss. Also until you get use to it endurance food can help.

    Mirage is outright broken on this boss honestly. Not only dodging doesn't kill your dps, it's part of your rotation. And not only that, you get a kitten ton of it. Oh, and the highest attack rate of the bosses really favors confusion damage. The fight would be considerably harder if we didn't have mirages to abuse on it.

  • Genesis.8572Genesis.8572 Member ✭✭✭
    We need both easy and hard modes

    It seems like an "easier mode" (with adjusted rewards) would serve as a more appropriate training ground for raids. It seems more intuitive to have people "train" for raids in raid content they can experience. It would reduce the sheer number of threads here and on reddit trying to convince casuals to support this game mode. Fractals have scaling difficulty with scaling rewards. I can jump into a low-level fractal to learn the ropes of the map and then actually work on improving.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭
    We need both easy and hard modes

    @Genesis.8572 said:
    It seems like an "easier mode" (with adjusted rewards) would serve as a more appropriate training ground for raids. It seems more intuitive to have people "train" for raids in raid content they can experience. It would reduce the sheer number of threads here and on reddit trying to convince casuals to support this game mode. Fractals have scaling difficulty with scaling rewards. I can jump into a low-level fractal to learn the ropes of the map and then actually work on improving.

    You would also have others that would never move to the normal mode either, which is fine, because it’s still traffic into the raids.

  • Zawn.9647Zawn.9647 Member ✭✭✭
    We need an easy mode, but not a hard mode

    World of Warcraft already solved this problem years go...

    LFR - pugs can raid, its very easy and doesnt rewards are less desirable
    Normal - as the name implies
    Heroic - a little more difficult with a few tweaks in the bosses skills - higher reward
    Mythic - very difficult, only hardcore players try it and the rewards are pretty strong

    why cant we have something like this? we dont need those 4 'levels' but 3 would be awesome...

    the one we have could be the "normal"
    one easier doable by pugs and another one for hardcore ppl

  • Tails.9372Tails.9372 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The majority just doesn't care about instanced content.

    Not that the instanced content in GW2 is casual friendly (aside from story instances (for the most part)).

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭
    We need both easy and hard modes

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Zawn.9647 said:
    World of Warcraft already solved this problem years go...

    LFR - pugs can raid, its very easy and doesnt rewards are less desirable
    Normal - as the name implies
    Heroic - a little more difficult with a few tweaks in the bosses skills - higher reward
    Mythic - very difficult, only hardcore players try it and the rewards are pretty strong

    why cant we have something like this? we dont need those 4 'levels' but 3 would be awesome...

    the one we have could be the "normal"
    one easier doable by pugs and another one for hardcore ppl

    LFR lumps players together and removes all skill. It also makes sure that x amount of tanks and x amount of healers are present. Finally it gives a stacking buff up to 40% to make even the most kitten groups able to succeed.

    Now let's take that apart for GW2:

    A.) we need to now some how decide which classes and builds and on what basis these classes and builds get added to raids (or we dumb down the content so much that literally any combination of classes should be able to succeed. That would be possible I guess)
    B.) rewards would have to be reduced significantly. Way more than in WoW since WoW continually devalues gear. Thus we would have to either not offer gear, or just very low grade gear like rares
    C.) difficulty would have to be reduced significantly so that half the people participating could go afk and success would still be possible with the other half just auto attacking.

    Come to think of it, there is content like this in the game already, it's called OPEN WORLD EVENTS AND BOSSES.

    A) Don’t do this, no reason for the automatic set up blah, it’s not needed.

    B) no Legendary Armor items, LI etc. Exotics and rares would be fine for this.

    C) difficulty, yes obviously reduced, they could introduce a stacking buff for this as well upon each wipe. Some players may never see it, some people might have max stacks.

  • Tails.9372Tails.9372 Member ✭✭✭✭

    B) no Legendary Armor items, LI etc. Exotics and rares would be fine for this.

    If you want it to end up as dead content that is, otherwise reduced rewards like how it is for fractals would be the way to go.

  • Raids have problems, but we need a better solution

    I watched the Guild Chat stream today and it is kinda sad that all the work that goes into raids is seen by a very small amount of players.
    Things are not fine as they are. This should have been addressed over a year ago.

    I dont think GW2 needs easy/hard modes but instead needs a simple training mode where people can experience raid mechanics before they actually start raiding.
    Most insta death mechanics should be replaced by a 5 second stun and a giant indicator above the players head (think Mad king head). All damage should be reduced to about 10-20% with no enrage timer and the boss health could be reduced by half.
    Rewards in this mode should be minor - up to rare gear. It should be made available for new wings a few weeks down the line.

    It would solve most of the problems - bringing more players to raid, teaching them mechanics and also let those who really do not want to raid experience the content.

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    @SonicTHI.3217 said:
    I watched the Guild Chat stream today and it is kinda sad that all the work that goes into raids is seen by a very small amount of players.
    Things are not fine as they are. This should have been addressed over a year ago.

    I dont think GW2 needs easy/hard modes but instead needs a simple training mode where people can experience raid mechanics before they actually start raiding.
    Most insta death mechanics should be replaced by a 5 second stun and a giant indicator above the players head (think Mad king head). All damage should be reduced to about 10-20% with no enrage timer and the boss health could be reduced by half.
    Rewards in this mode should be minor - up to rare gear. It should be made available for new wings a few weeks down the line.

    It would solve most of the problems - bringing more players to raid, teaching them mechanics and also let those who really do not want to raid experience the content.

    Learning the mechanics is not a problem. They are slow, usually have clear tells and for the few cases when they don't ANet has added a huge screen overlay to remind you something is going on. The problem, the thing that makes you need training, is playing your role under pressure. Removing the pressure from mechanics, damage output and damage taken is not going to prepare anyone for anything. And neither is it going to make them experience anything. The raid experience is very much defined by this pressure.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭
    We need both easy and hard modes

    @Digit.1823 said:

    @Tails.9372 said:

    B) no Legendary Armor items, LI etc. Exotics and rares would be fine for this.

    If you want it to end up as dead content that is, otherwise reduced rewards like how it is for fractals would be the way to go.

    Wait what? I thought people were here to just ask for story/easy mode so they could experience the story and train for raids in a more casual setting. You now also want the easy version to give you all the shinies for less effort?!?!?!? Nobody could have ever seen this coming!!!1!eleven

    On a more serious note, you should look up the explanation of "philosophy of fairness" which basically tells in excellent detail that it is only normal that the more work you do (or the harder you work) the more you should be rewarded. And the less you do the less you should be rewarded. This is actually such a basic logical thing that i'm a bit aghast that people still think easy mode version should give everything normal mode does.

    I mean back in high school when you did 90% of the work in a group project and the other person(s) did only 10% i'm pretty sure you would have felt a bit cheated if they just got the same grade as you for basically all the work that you did alone.

    I'll just repeat this again for everyone to read, not just for you alone, (ad nauseam) that most players who are anti story/easy mode are only against it because it would either:
    A: Take away resources to make raids which means it would take even longer to release. If they can release raids at the same pace AND also add story/easy mode most of the players here would not object because the wait time for new content would not be increased.
    B: As i explained earlier the story/easy mode version should not give the rewards normal mode does (main issues being LI and Legendary Armor). There is some debate over if story/easy mode raids should give magnetite shards or ascended armor/weapons which i won't dive into right now but again it is at least fair that story/easy mode has reduced main rewards because you literally have to put in less effort then normal mode. (And then we get back to the "philosophy of fairness").

    (This next bit is directed to everyone equally, not you personally Tails but feel free to reply)
    If story/easy mode raids ends up being "hurr durr ded cantent" because it wouldn't give the max rewards like normal mode does then you've basically been making a very poor argument in case of it's implementation. Because how on earth are you going to justify people getting everything like normal raiders have been getting for the past few years but for half the effort. And don't start with things like "yeah but a full clear on story/easy mode would only give 1 LI per wing and not per boss" because the only thing that does is time-gate it more. It doesn't make the effort of killing the bosses and doing the events any harder or more challenging. Time-gating =/= more challenge.

    I agree with many points of your post. I wouldn’t want a story mode to chew up additional resources and make the raids take longer to develop. That being said we have two more LW releases which contain Legendary Weapons, which potentially could mean freed up resources after LW season 4 is finished.

    In terms of rewards for a story mode. It shouldn’t contain any LI, mag shards, Armor collection stuff either. I’m thinking rewards skin to T2 fractals orcsomething of that nature. What should be in there is achievements though. The book collections, notes etc. maybe 1ap per boss encounter on story mode.

    If this happen, I suspect a large portion of the complaints would disappear. There would still be the person would say, I want Legendary Armor from easy mode.

  • Tails.9372Tails.9372 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 9, 2018

    @Digit.1823 said:
    On a more serious note, you should look up the explanation of "philosophy of fairness" which basically tells in excellent detail that it is only normal that the more work you do (or the harder you work) the more you should be rewarded. And the less you do the less you should be rewarded. This is actually such a basic logical thing that i'm a bit aghast that people still think easy mode version should give everything normal mode does.

    Doesn't make much sense to bring up this point as a response to a post which stated that easier difficulties should get fewer rewards.

    @Digit.1823 said:
    And don't start with things like "yeah but a full clear on story/easy mode would only give 1 LI per wing and not per boss" because the only thing that does is time-gate it more. It doesn't make the effort of killing the bosses and doing the events any harder or more challenging. Time-gating =/= more challenge.

    So what? Legendary items are participation rewards, nothing more. One can just as well run some extra rounds in Istan and buy the kills. I start buying the "people should adhere to higher standards" argument once the raid community actively pressures A-Net to do something against raid sellers. At least this way people would actually be incentivised to play the related content. It's not like the stuff where you can get help from other players amounts to anything anyways. If it's "prestige" you're after you should ask A-Net for some high difficulty solo content.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭
    We need both easy and hard modes

    @Tails.9372 said:

    If it's "prestige" you're after you should ask A-Net for some high difficulty solo content.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Liadri_the_Concealing_Dark

    I thought this was well done.

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    @Tails.9372 said:

    @Digit.1823 said:
    And don't start with things like "yeah but a full clear on story/easy mode would only give 1 LI per wing and not per boss" because the only thing that does is time-gate it more. It doesn't make the effort of killing the bosses and doing the events any harder or more challenging. Time-gating =/= more challenge.

    So what? Legendary items are participation rewards, nothing more. One can just as well run some extra rounds in Istan and buy the kills. I start buying the "people should adhere to higher standards" argument once the raid community actively pressures A-Net to do something against raid sellers. At least this way people would actually be incentivised to play the related content. It's not like the stuff where you can get help from other players amounts to anything anyways. If it's "prestige" you're after you should ask A-Net for some high difficulty solo content.

    Well, no. First off, you can't buy something nobody is selling. Being able to buy the kills means there are groups of extremely skilled players who can provide this service for you. By farming Istan and giving them lots of gold in exchange for the kills you're doing exactly that - rewarding higher skill and higher effort with a larger reward.

    Second, the high-difficulty solo content will always be easier than the high difficulty group content. Because the latter can include everything the former has, plus it has the added difficulty of needing other players to their parts equally well. In a solo fight you can never fail if you do your part flawlessly. In a group one you can. Even the hardest solo fights we saw not that long ago don't really compare to some normal mode raid bosses. Let alone to the truly challenging CMs. They'll never be as prestigious as the raid ones.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 9, 2018
    We need an easy mode, but not a hard mode

    @Feanor.2358 said:
    Second, the high-difficulty solo content will always be easier than the high difficulty group content.

    Only when individual difficulty is the same (which almost never happens). On the other hand, if the overall difficulty level is similar, the solo content would be much more individually difficult.

    Yes, group content has the added difficulty of requiring coordination, but it balances it by making the individual difficulty much lower (sometimes low enough that some players might not even be there). As you said, in a solo fight you can never fail if you do your part flawlessly. In a group one you can. What you forgot to say is that in a solo fight if you don't do your part well, you will not succeed, but in a group one you still can. That you can't get carried for solo challenging content, but you very much can for group one. That's why the individual content is always going to be more prestigious, because it is the only content that really shows how skilled you are.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:
    Second, the high-difficulty solo content will always be easier than the high difficulty group content.

    Only when individual difficulty is the same (which almost never happens). On the other hand, if the overall difficulty level is similar, the solo content would be much more individually difficult.

    Yes, group content has the added difficulty of requiring coordination, but it balances it by making the individual difficulty much lower (sometimes low enough that some players might not even be there). As you said, in a solo fight you can never fail if you do your part flawlessly. In a group one you can. What you forgot to say is that in a solo fight if you don't do your part well, you will not succeed, but in a group one you still can. That you can't get carried for solo challenging content, but you very much can for group one. That's why the individual content is always going to be more prestigious, because it is the only content that really shows how skilled you are.

    There's nothing stopping you from making an encounter requiring the exact same flawlessness from every player, achieving the same individual challenge as the most challenging solo content possible and much, MUCH higher difficulty. In practice you leave some leeway in either case, but it still holds true that the most difficult solo fights in the game are far easier than most raid encounters. I can back this up statistically:

    Kingslayer title unlocks: 6.1%
    The Blazing Light title unlocks: 15.4%
    Voice in the Void title unlocks: 1.4%

    Note that while TBL has been around for a long time, Kingslayer was added much later than VitV and still is unlocked by about 4 times as many players. Obviously it requires less skill and owning it carries less prestige.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Raids have problems, but we need a better solution

    @Feanor.2358 said:
    Obviously it requires less skill and owning it carries less prestige.

    The problem with hard single player encounters is they can be more easily beaten by weird builds, using obscure gear/food/utilities and so on. Like life leeching making the fight with Liadri very easy. In group content it's much harder to find such loopholes and even if they do exist, they usually affect only parts of the fight. If the single player hard content was constantly updated, and require players to beat the content again every time it was updated then it would probably be as hard (or harder) than group content.

    but it still holds true that the most difficult solo fights in the game are far easier than most raid encounters

    I wouldn't say that Liadri and Turai are far easier than most raid encounters. You probably meant, the hardest solo fights are easier than the hardest (CM) raid encounters, because there are lots of Raid encounters with much higher completion than Liadri and/or Turai.

    Beyond the Vale is at 30%
    Avenger of the Pact, one of the harder bosses is at 16%, same percentage as Liadri
    Normal difficulty Dhuum: What's Death May Never Die is at 6.2% same as Turai
    And so on.

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    Huh, I actually expected lower numbers on the raid bosses. They do feel harder than Liadri and Turai, at least the endbosses of the wings. I guess that's a bias caused by the average level of the groups I play in. But OK, they're still easier than the hard raid CMs. Demon's Demise is ~3% as well.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 9, 2018
    Raids have problems, but we need a better solution

    Vale Guardian: 30.524%
    Escort: 27.420%
    Gorseval: 24.787%
    Cairn: 22.447%
    Overseer: 21.763%
    Samarog: 20.087%
    Sabetha: 19.628%
    Slothasor: 18.286%
    Keep Construct: 16.852%
    Matthias: 15.943%
    Liadri: 15.418%
    Nightmare Fractal CM: 14.442%
    Deimos: 14.025%
    Xera: 13.389%
    Soulless Horror: 8.940%
    Shattered Observatory CM: 8.329%
    Cairn CM: 7.027%
    Dhuum: 6.180%
    Turai Ossa: 6.122%
    Overseer CM: 5.933%
    Shattered Observatory LNHB: 4.494%
    Samarog CM: 4.299%
    Deimos CM: 3.967%
    Soulless Horror CM: 3.595%
    Dhuum CM: 1.620%

    Liadri was beaten by as many people that beat Matthias, while the majority of Raid bosses were beaten more times.
    Turai Ossa has a similar kill ratio to normal mode Dhuum, slightly less. I think the difficulty of both these bosses is very high (and fine as it is)
    It's interesting to see the Fractal CM rates, I included them so we have hardest 10-man content, hardest 5-man content and hardest solo content on the list.
    Plus a good way to see which titles have the most "prestige" :dizzy:

    Edit: Latest wing current stats:
    Amalgamate: 5.669%
    Largos: 4.137%
    Qadim: 2.755%
    Amalgamate CM: 1.906%
    Largos CM: 1.554%
    Qadim CM: 0.996%

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    Vale Guardian: 30.524%
    Escort: 27.420%
    Gorseval: 24.787%
    Cairn: 22.447%
    Overseer: 21.763%
    Samarog: 20.087%
    Sabetha: 19.628%
    Slothasor: 18.286%
    Keep Construct: 16.852%
    Matthias: 15.943%
    Liadri: 15.418%
    Nightmare Fractal CM: 14.442%
    Deimos: 14.025%
    Xera: 13.389%
    Soulless Horror: 8.940%
    Shattered Observatory CM: 8.329%
    Cairn CM: 7.027%
    Dhuum: 6.180%
    Turai Ossa: 6.122%
    Overseer CM: 5.933%
    Shattered Observatory LNHB: 4.494%
    Samarog CM: 4.299%
    Deimos CM: 3.967%
    Soulless Horror CM: 3.595%
    Dhuum CM: 1.620%

    Liadri was beaten by as many people that beat Matthias, while the majority of Raid bosses were beaten more times.
    Turai Ossa has a similar kill ratio to normal mode Dhuum, slightly less. I think the difficulty of both these bosses is very high (and fine as it is)
    It's interesting to see the Fractal CM rates, I included them so we have hardest 10-man content, hardest 5-man content and hardest solo content on the list.
    Plus a good way to see which titles have the most "prestige" :dizzy:

    Edit: Latest wing current stats:
    Amalgamate: 5.669%
    Largos: 4.137%
    Qadim: 2.755%
    Amalgamate CM: 1.906%
    Largos CM: 1.554%
    Qadim CM: 0.996%

    Voice in the Void, obviously. At least it will be in just a few months when Champion of Zommoros overtakes it in unlocks.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    We need an easy mode, but not a hard mode

    @Feanor.2358 said:
    There's nothing stopping you from making an encounter requiring the exact same flawlessness from every player, achieving the same individual challenge as the most challenging solo content possible and much, MUCH higher difficulty.

    In theory, yes. In practice such content would be too difficult for even most of the hardcore players, due to the multiplicative effect of each individual difficulty on the group one. That's why you always leave a safety margin. And it's not some leeway - it's a lot (enough that even in the hardest group content so far you can carry through at least one player that has no skill and no clue whatsoever).

    but it still holds true that the most difficult solo fights in the game are far easier than most raid encounters. I can back this up statistically:

    Kingslayer title unlocks: 6.1%
    The Blazing Light title unlocks: 15.4%
    Voice in the Void title unlocks: 1.4%

    Note that while TBL has been around for a long time, Kingslayer was added much later than VitV and still is unlocked by about 4 times as many players. Obviously it requires less skill and owning it carries less prestige.

    Less individual skill? Not really. Let's be honest, no raid encounter requires more skill from individuals than Liadri did. Yes, the encounters' overall difficulty is greater, but in actuality in most cases it requires far less out of each individual player (and in no case requires more). The very fact that even VitV can be bought proves that.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • TexZero.7910TexZero.7910 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Less individual skill? Not really. Let's be honest, no raid encounter requires more skill from individuals than Liadri did. Yes, the encounters' overall difficulty is greater, but in actuality in most cases it requires far less out of each individual player (and in no case requires more). The very fact that even VitV can be bought proves that.

    I feel that's a bit rose tinted. Some roles/classes defintely have a higher burden of execution than others and can be seen as requiring more individual skill per certain encounters than liadri.

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:
    There's nothing stopping you from making an encounter requiring the exact same flawlessness from every player, achieving the same individual challenge as the most challenging solo content possible and much, MUCH higher difficulty.

    In theory, yes. In practice such content would be too difficult for even most of the hardcore players, due to the multiplicative effect of each individual difficulty on the group one. That's why you always leave a safety margin. And it's not some leeway - it's a lot (enough that even in the hardest group content so far you can carry through at least one player that has no skill and no clue whatsoever).

    but it still holds true that the most difficult solo fights in the game are far easier than most raid encounters. I can back this up statistically:

    Kingslayer title unlocks: 6.1%
    The Blazing Light title unlocks: 15.4%
    Voice in the Void title unlocks: 1.4%

    Note that while TBL has been around for a long time, Kingslayer was added much later than VitV and still is unlocked by about 4 times as many players. Obviously it requires less skill and owning it carries less prestige.

    Less individual skill? Not really. Let's be honest, no raid encounter requires more skill from individuals than Liadri did. Yes, the encounters' overall difficulty is greater, but in actuality in most cases it requires far less out of each individual player (and in no case requires more). The very fact that even VitV can be bought proves that.

    I do not agree. Being able to buy it is irrelevant. The only reason TBL and Kingslayer can't be bought is that you can't have another character carry you through them, not their difficulty. I can say for certain both Samarog and Dhuum CMs have been far harder for me than either Liadri or Turai. That's why I wear VitV, not one of the solo titles which I also have. Objectively speaking, the solo fights didn't offer that great of a challenge. They only had a single important mechanic to learn.

  • Zaraki.5784Zaraki.5784 Member ✭✭✭✭
    We need an easy mode, but not a hard mode

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:
    There's nothing stopping you from making an encounter requiring the exact same flawlessness from every player, achieving the same individual challenge as the most challenging solo content possible and much, MUCH higher difficulty.

    In theory, yes. In practice such content would be too difficult for even most of the hardcore players, due to the multiplicative effect of each individual difficulty on the group one. That's why you always leave a safety margin. And it's not some leeway - it's a lot (enough that even in the hardest group content so far you can carry through at least one player that has no skill and no clue whatsoever).

    but it still holds true that the most difficult solo fights in the game are far easier than most raid encounters. I can back this up statistically:

    Kingslayer title unlocks: 6.1%
    The Blazing Light title unlocks: 15.4%
    Voice in the Void title unlocks: 1.4%

    Note that while TBL has been around for a long time, Kingslayer was added much later than VitV and still is unlocked by about 4 times as many players. Obviously it requires less skill and owning it carries less prestige.

    Less individual skill? Not really. Let's be honest, no raid encounter requires more skill from individuals than Liadri did. Yes, the encounters' overall difficulty is greater, but in actuality in most cases it requires far less out of each individual player (and in no case requires more). The very fact that even VitV can be bought proves that.

    I do not agree. Being able to buy it is irrelevant. The only reason TBL and Kingslayer can't be bought is that you can't have another character carry you through them, not their difficulty. I can say for certain both Samarog and Dhuum CMs have been far harder for me than either Liadri or Turai. That's why I wear VitV, not one of the solo titles which I also have. Objectively speaking, the solo fights didn't offer that great of a challenge. They only had a single important mechanic to learn.

    For the normal fights I agree that raid cms (and even most nm) are harder than Liadri&Turai, but 8-orbs Liadri is the hardest challenge I ever had in gw2.

    "Sticks and stones may break your bones but words will never be able to injure you!"
    The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy

  • Tails.9372Tails.9372 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Feanor.2358 said:
    By farming Istan and giving them lots of gold in exchange for the kills you're doing exactly that - rewarding higher skill and higher effort with a larger reward.

    Then in this case the gold they got is the reward for the effort these players put in but this has nothing to do with the armor the other guy received as it doesn't reflect his "efforts" meaning that wearing it proves nothing whtch makes it unfitting as a status symbol for personal "skills and accomplishments".

    @Feanor.2358 said:
    Even the hardest solo fights we saw not that long ago don't really compare to some normal mode raid bosses.

    The game mostly focuses on multiplayer content so of course there is not much to compare but just because they don't focus on releasing difficult solo content doesn't mean they can't.

    @Feanor.2358 said:
    They'll never be as prestigious as the raid ones.

    They arguably already are, I can just accuse someone of having bought the raid boss kill and he would have no way of proving me wrong based on the title alone.

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    @Zaraki.5784 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:
    There's nothing stopping you from making an encounter requiring the exact same flawlessness from every player, achieving the same individual challenge as the most challenging solo content possible and much, MUCH higher difficulty.

    In theory, yes. In practice such content would be too difficult for even most of the hardcore players, due to the multiplicative effect of each individual difficulty on the group one. That's why you always leave a safety margin. And it's not some leeway - it's a lot (enough that even in the hardest group content so far you can carry through at least one player that has no skill and no clue whatsoever).

    but it still holds true that the most difficult solo fights in the game are far easier than most raid encounters. I can back this up statistically:

    Kingslayer title unlocks: 6.1%
    The Blazing Light title unlocks: 15.4%
    Voice in the Void title unlocks: 1.4%

    Note that while TBL has been around for a long time, Kingslayer was added much later than VitV and still is unlocked by about 4 times as many players. Obviously it requires less skill and owning it carries less prestige.

    Less individual skill? Not really. Let's be honest, no raid encounter requires more skill from individuals than Liadri did. Yes, the encounters' overall difficulty is greater, but in actuality in most cases it requires far less out of each individual player (and in no case requires more). The very fact that even VitV can be bought proves that.

    I do not agree. Being able to buy it is irrelevant. The only reason TBL and Kingslayer can't be bought is that you can't have another character carry you through them, not their difficulty. I can say for certain both Samarog and Dhuum CMs have been far harder for me than either Liadri or Turai. That's why I wear VitV, not one of the solo titles which I also have. Objectively speaking, the solo fights didn't offer that great of a challenge. They only had a single important mechanic to learn.

    For the normal fights I agree that raid cms (and even most nm) are harder than Liadri&Turai, but 8-orbs Liadri is the hardest challenge I ever had in gw2.

    I guess it depends on what build you're using. I just slapped a focus on my Mirage and pulled multiple adds into the lights. It didn't even feel more difficult than the normal mode, since I had already learned the mechanics and they didn't change at all.

    @Tails.9372 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:
    By farming Istan and giving them lots of gold in exchange for the kills you're doing exactly that - rewarding higher skill and higher effort with a larger reward.

    Then in this case the gold they got is the reward for the effort these players put in but this has nothing to do with the armor the other guy received as it doesn't reflect his "efforts" meaning that wearing it proves nothing whtch makes it unfitting as a status symbol for personal "skills and accomplishments".

    Depends on the perspective. It means exactly as much as you put into it. If you bought it, then all it means to you are the hours upon hours of mindless farm. If you did it on your own, then it has much greater meaning. And that's the common case by a wide margin, not the buying one.

    @Tails.9372 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:
    Even the hardest solo fights we saw not that long ago don't really compare to some normal mode raid bosses.

    The game mostly focuses on multiplayer content so of course there is not much to compare but just because they don't focus on releasing difficult solo content doesn't mean they can't.

    It doesn't, but read again what I said. No matter how hard solo content you want to make, you can always create harder group content.

    @Tails.9372 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:
    They'll never be as prestigious as the raid ones.

    They arguably already are, I can just accuse someone of having bought the raid boss kill and he would have no way of proving me wrong based on the title alone.

    No they aren't. Not even close. Nobody cares if you have TBL or Kingslayer. VitV? That gives you a free pass almost everywhere. And for a good reason.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭
    We need both easy and hard modes

    I mean, if you have cash to burn, just buy gems, zero effort involved.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 10, 2018
    We need an easy mode, but not a hard mode

    @Feanor.2358 said:
    It doesn't, but read again what I said. No matter how hard solo content you want to make, you can always create harder group content.

    So? You are comparing actual, existing content with a theoretical, nonexisting one. Obviously, such comparison will always show what you want it to show, but it doesn't really have any meaning. In theory, you can also create a solo content so hard, that no group content could ever be meaningfully more difficult (because once you get to the point noone is able to pass, any increase in difficulty is meaningless). Again, so what? Such comparisons do not prove anything.

    @Feanor.2358 said:
    No they aren't. Not even close. Nobody cares if you have TBL or Kingslayer. VitV? That gives you a free pass almost everywhere.

    That's because your "everywhere" happens to be limited to mostly raid content. Outside of them most players do not really care about it (or even know what that title is for). And even in raids it's not a "free pass", at best it can make people not insist on you linking KPs (and sometimes not even that). Make a mistake, and you will get treated the same as someone without the title, though.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

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