Do raids need easy/normal/hard difficulty mode? [merged] - Page 86 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Do raids need easy/normal/hard difficulty mode? [merged]

1808182838486>

Comments

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    We need an easy mode, but not a hard mode

    You claim that doing easy mode would require doubling the amount of resources raids have. In that case i have a better proposal: do not make raid CMs - that will surely shorten the timeframe between new raid wings by half.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • yann.1946yann.1946 Member ✭✭✭
    Raids have problems, but we need a better solution

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    You claim that doing easy mode would require doubling the amount of resources raids have. In that case i have a better proposal: do not make raid CMs - that will surely shorten the timeframe between new raid wings by half.

    If it would generate more raid wings I would be all for it. Although we don't know how much this would change.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 24, 2018
    We need an easy mode, but not a hard mode

    @Digit.1823 said:
    Everything you said here has been said before. That's why multiple people have already told you to go read the whole thread because everything you brought up has been done-and-dealt-with before.

    Said, yes. Dealt with, not really. Although it is true that we shouldn't expect the same people having different reaction now to arguments they ignored before. Still, those arguments are still there, and i see no reason to stay quiet and pretend they disappeared just because some people didn't like them.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • sigur.9453sigur.9453 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 24, 2018
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Digit.1823 said:
    Everything you said here has been said before. That's why multiple people have already told you to go read the whole thread because everything you brought up has been done-and-dealt-with before.

    Said, yes. Dealt with, not really. Although it is true that we shouldn't expect the same people having different reaction now to arguments they ignored before. Still, those arguments are still there, and i see no reason to stay quiet and pretend they disappeared just because some people didn't like them.

    That's the thing, we can't deal with most arguments. Since the discussions always (need to) stop, when it's about actuall work, since we do not have any insights on that. We can jerk our brains off as long as we like over this, but there will be no solution on our (player) side. As far as we know for now, easy mode raid is not going to happen, as long as anet says otherwise. This thread here is nothing but hot air.

    I have been in this mess since the beginning, and there was not a single argument. That didn't end with guessing what's easy to make and what's not. That's no discussion, that's a guessing game. Zero value

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Raids have problems, but we need a better solution

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    You claim that doing easy mode would require doubling the amount of resources raids have. In that case i have a better proposal: do not make raid CMs - that will surely shorten the timeframe between new raid wings by half.

    Let's take a look at Deimos CM:

    Saul no longer spawns a bubble to safely block Mind Crush, however Aegis and any other self-blocks will prevent the damage from it, so use those instead. Saul can no longer be healed, so it is vital to kill as many Prides and Greeds as possible before they can damage him.

    Plus some increase to Deimos Health. Basically it adds no extra mechanics to the fight, but tweaks some of them.

    Let's take a look at a proposal for Vale Guardian easy mode:
    Greens should take longer to explode, greens should deal less damage
    Vale Guardian should have less health, Vale Guardian should have shorter break bar, Vale Guardian should deal less damage
    Seekers should deal less damage, maybe even slower
    Lit platforms should deal less damage and/or take longer to activate
    Am I missing anything?

    Now compare a CM with the proposals for easy mode and you will find that the "easy modes" proposed on these forums alter every single mechanic of the fight, while CMs either add a completely new mechanic, or do small tweaks on existing ones.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 24, 2018
    We need an easy mode, but not a hard mode

    @sigur.9453 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Digit.1823 said:
    Everything you said here has been said before. That's why multiple people have already told you to go read the whole thread because everything you brought up has been done-and-dealt-with before.

    Said, yes. Dealt with, not really. Although it is true that we shouldn't expect the same people having different reaction now to arguments they ignored before. Still, those arguments are still there, and i see no reason to stay quiet and pretend they disappeared just because some people didn't like them.

    That's the thing, we can't deal with most arguments. Since the discussions always (need to) stop, when it's about actuall work, since we do not have any insights on that. We can jerk our brains off as long as we like over this, but there will be no solution on our (player) side. As far as we know for now, easy mode raid is not going to happen, as long as anet says otherwise. This thread here is nothing but hot air.

    Mount threads were also "nothing but hot air" up to a point anet released PoF. The same can be said about raid threads before HoT. Do you really believe, though, that neither of those had any impact whatsoever on Anet's decisions to introduce the very things people asked later on? Not even in the slightest?
    If you don't ask for it, you won't be given it.

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    You claim that doing easy mode would require doubling the amount of resources raids have. In that case i have a better proposal: do not make raid CMs - that will surely shorten the timeframe between new raid wings by half.

    Let's take a look at Deimos CM:

    Saul no longer spawns a bubble to safely block Mind Crush, however Aegis and any other self-blocks will prevent the damage from it, so use those instead. Saul can no longer be healed, so it is vital to kill as many Prides and Greeds as possible before they can damage him.

    Plus some increase to Deimos Health. Basically it adds no extra mechanics to the fight, but tweaks some of them.

    Let's take a look at a proposal for Vale Guardian easy mode:
    Greens should take longer to explode, greens should deal less damage
    Vale Guardian should have less health, Vale Guardian should have shorter break bar, Vale Guardian should deal less damage
    Seekers should deal less damage, maybe even slower
    Lit platforms should deal less damage and/or take longer to activate
    Am I missing anything?

    Now compare a CM with the proposals for easy mode and you will find that the "easy modes" proposed on these forums alter every single mechanic of the fight, while CMs either add a completely new mechanic, or do small tweaks on existing ones.

    Yeah, let's compare that. Quadim/Dhuum CM changes for example do not make more changes that would be needed for easy mode.

    Not every change included in every easy mode proposal should be included, you picked the most extensive list for VG, while in reality less damage/less health and a change to a single mechanic - basically a mirror of most CMs - would easily be enough.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • sigur.9453sigur.9453 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 24, 2018
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @sigur.9453 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Digit.1823 said:
    Everything you said here has been said before. That's why multiple people have already told you to go read the whole thread because everything you brought up has been done-and-dealt-with before.

    Said, yes. Dealt with, not really. Although it is true that we shouldn't expect the same people having different reaction now to arguments they ignored before. Still, those arguments are still there, and i see no reason to stay quiet and pretend they disappeared just because some people didn't like them.

    That's the thing, we can't deal with most arguments. Since the discussions always (need to) stop, when it's about actuall work, since we do not have any insights on that. We can jerk our brains off as long as we like over this, but there will be no solution on our (player) side. As far as we know for now, easy mode raid is not going to happen, as long as anet says otherwise. This thread here is nothing but hot air.

    Mount threads were also "nothing but hot air" up to a point anet released PoF. Do you really believe, though, that they had no impact whatsoever on Anet's decision of having mounts in that expac? Not even in the slightest?

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    You claim that doing easy mode would require doubling the amount of resources raids have. In that case i have a better proposal: do not make raid CMs - that will surely shorten the timeframe between new raid wings by half.

    Let's take a look at Deimos CM:

    Saul no longer spawns a bubble to safely block Mind Crush, however Aegis and any other self-blocks will prevent the damage from it, so use those instead. Saul can no longer be healed, so it is vital to kill as many Prides and Greeds as possible before they can damage him.

    Plus some increase to Deimos Health. Basically it adds no extra mechanics to the fight, but tweaks some of them.

    Let's take a look at a proposal for Vale Guardian easy mode:
    Greens should take longer to explode, greens should deal less damage
    Vale Guardian should have less health, Vale Guardian should have shorter break bar, Vale Guardian should deal less damage
    Seekers should deal less damage, maybe even slower
    Lit platforms should deal less damage and/or take longer to activate
    Am I missing anything?

    Now compare a CM with the proposals for easy mode and you will find that the "easy modes" proposed on these forums alter every single mechanic of the fight, while CMs either add a completely new mechanic, or do small tweaks on existing ones.

    Yeah, let's compare that. Quadim/Dhuum CM changes for example do not make more changes that would be needed for easy mode.
    (and not every change included in every easy mode proposal should probably be included, you picked the most extensive list, while in reality less damage/less health and a tweak to a single mechanic - basically a mirror of most CMs - would easily be enough)

    yes ,anet released mounts because they came to the conclusion that they could monetize this quite "easily".. which worked out quite well as it seams. not because some ppl on the forum wanted it. money leads the way. raid easy mode? how do you monetize it? exaclty.

    and no, i dont think the forum had any impact. theire intern buisiness department had enough (extern)data to compare to. forums do not matter.

    Edit: and we are back to the guessing game. yay.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 25, 2018
    We need an easy mode, but not a hard mode

    If people that wanted mounts did not ask for them, we likely wouldn't have mounts now. If people that wanted raids did not ask for them, we likely wouldn't have raids now. The same with easy mode - if people won't keep asking for them, we're not likely to get them. It doesn't mean that asking by itself is sure to produce results (because, obviously, it isn't), only that not asking is practically certain to get you exactly nothing.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    If people that wanted mounts did not ask for them, we likely wouldn't have mounts now. If people that wanted raids did not ask for them, we likely wouldn't have raids now. The same with easy mode - if people won't keep asking for them, we're not likely to get them. It doesn't mean that asking by itself is sure to produce results (because, obviously, it isn't), only that not asking is practically certain to get you exactly nothing.

    You're right but it's also about the dimensions or the impact of requests.
    Raids or let's take the synonym in GW2 "challenging content" was asked by a substantial and very vocal part of the community comparable to the whole PvP community or the WvW community. It was a tightened, pretty organized subcommunity with plans, ideas, guides and more things we don't even remember any more. Same thing with mounts. The keyword was used over years in the forums and reddit and was a very strong subject as well.
    Maybe it's just me but I do not see this existing for an easy mode as well. I'm very sure I also mentioned it in this thread: If - and it's really an "if" - there is such a huge wanting & desire by a substantial community for easy mode raids in the whole GW2 community as we've seen for challenging content or mounts, this group should really organize themselves and make more "noise" and collect more support to have a big enough influence about the (next) orientation of the game. I don't deny threads like this one or some equivalence on reddit but you would be lying if you state that those are or were in a approximately comparable numbers like those for mounts and challenging content in the past. In addition to that it needs more than threads like this one where people exchange pro & contra arguments which most often are not verifiable from both sides!
    Quite an opposite is the truth people demanding Anet to release their LS in the assigned time frame, are happy about (almost - hello Kourna) every release and putting lots of money into the game (latest NCSoft Reports) which clearly paints a picture of the existent player population being rather satisfied than disappointed about not having any kind of special content like for example an easy mode.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Raids have problems, but we need a better solution

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Not every change included in every easy mode proposal should be included, you picked the most extensive list for VG, while in reality less damage/less health and a change to a single mechanic - basically a mirror of most CMs - would easily be enough.

    And this is why this entire thread has been useless since day 1. If you check just the previous few pages, what I posted is what others want from this easy mode, which is nerfing every single mechanic of the fights. If you recall back in the first few pages I even made a suggestion of making an easy mode similar to a CM, but in reverse (removing or tweaking one mechanic, at best two) but it was turned down by some of your "Easy mode" friends (others liked it though).

    Making an easy mode similar to a CM is something I've been posting about since the very first thread about easy modes appeared. Yet, it's mostly the "easy mode" crowd that doesn't like it. Which is why posting about wanting an Easy mode without discussing at least some specifics about it, is a bit pointless.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭
    We need both easy and hard modes

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Not every change included in every easy mode proposal should be included, you picked the most extensive list for VG, while in reality less damage/less health and a change to a single mechanic - basically a mirror of most CMs - would easily be enough.

    And this is why this entire thread has been useless since day 1. If you check just the previous few pages, what I posted is what others want from this easy mode, which is nerfing every single mechanic of the fights. If you recall back in the first few pages I even made a suggestion of making an easy mode similar to a CM, but in reverse (removing or tweaking one mechanic, at best two) but it was turned down by some of your "Easy mode" friends (others liked it though).

    Making an easy mode similar to a CM is something I've been posting about since the very first thread about easy modes appeared. Yet, it's mostly the "easy mode" crowd that doesn't like it. Which is why posting about wanting an Easy mode without discussing at least some specifics about it, is a bit pointless.

    I think this idea is pretty good honestly. I think if we use the Lair of the Snowmen as an easy mode template and adjust the bosses to those difficulties that would be great.

    The thing is, someone design the Lair of the Snowmen. Could this person or team or who ever designed this thing go back and make adjustments to the current raids for an easy mode? Then slap in a watered down reward system with maybe easy mode achievements.

    The people who are complaining about not being able to do this content from a lore perspective would then be satisfied at the very least. Then this dwindles the people complaining to a smaller pool of people.

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭
    We need both easy and hard modes

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Not every change included in every easy mode proposal should be included, you picked the most extensive list for VG, while in reality less damage/less health and a change to a single mechanic - basically a mirror of most CMs - would easily be enough.

    And this is why this entire thread has been useless since day 1. If you check just the previous few pages, what I posted is what others want from this easy mode, which is nerfing every single mechanic of the fights. If you recall back in the first few pages I even made a suggestion of making an easy mode similar to a CM, but in reverse (removing or tweaking one mechanic, at best two) but it was turned down by some of your "Easy mode" friends (others liked it though).

    Making an easy mode similar to a CM is something I've been posting about since the very first thread about easy modes appeared. Yet, it's mostly the "easy mode" crowd that doesn't like it. Which is why posting about wanting an Easy mode without discussing at least some specifics about it, is a bit pointless.

    I would be all up for reverse CM that removes 1 mech new players struggle the most in raids, e.g teleports on Carin and VG.
    And I still stand on that those mod don't give full reward and/or unlock achievements from legendary armor.
    Bit of shards weekly cap to 250 (?) those usual trash drops with a chance to get ascended trinket(?). Something like that

    Va'esse deireádh aep eigean, va'esse eigh faidh'ar

  • Miellyn.6847Miellyn.6847 Member ✭✭✭
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    @phs.6089 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Not every change included in every easy mode proposal should be included, you picked the most extensive list for VG, while in reality less damage/less health and a change to a single mechanic - basically a mirror of most CMs - would easily be enough.

    And this is why this entire thread has been useless since day 1. If you check just the previous few pages, what I posted is what others want from this easy mode, which is nerfing every single mechanic of the fights. If you recall back in the first few pages I even made a suggestion of making an easy mode similar to a CM, but in reverse (removing or tweaking one mechanic, at best two) but it was turned down by some of your "Easy mode" friends (others liked it though).

    Making an easy mode similar to a CM is something I've been posting about since the very first thread about easy modes appeared. Yet, it's mostly the "easy mode" crowd that doesn't like it. Which is why posting about wanting an Easy mode without discussing at least some specifics about it, is a bit pointless.

    I would be all up for reverse CM that removes 1 mech new players struggle the most in raids, e.g teleports on Carin and VG.
    And I still stand on that those mod don't give full reward and/or unlock achievements from legendary armor.
    Bit of shards weekly cap to 250 (?) those usual trash drops with a chance to get ascended trinket(?). Something like that

    Those teleports are marked with an orange border around your screen for some time now if you stand in them. Most mechanics are really well telegraphed.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 8, 2019
    We need an easy mode, but not a hard mode

    @Miellyn.6847 said:
    Those teleports are marked with an orange border around your screen for some time now if you stand in them. Most mechanics are really well telegraphed.

    I'd suggest for easy mode at least using the old yellow border mark that was visible. The new orange one just isn't visible at all. Or at least it's less visible than the mechanic itself, which makes it of dubious usefulness.

    ...tbh, i wouldn't mind returning that feature to original visibility even in normal mode. As it is it's mostly just a visual distraction and doesn't really help at all.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭
    We need both easy and hard modes

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Not every change included in every easy mode proposal should be included, you picked the most extensive list for VG, while in reality less damage/less health and a change to a single mechanic - basically a mirror of most CMs - would easily be enough.

    And this is why this entire thread has been useless since day 1. If you check just the previous few pages, what I posted is what others want from this easy mode, which is nerfing every single mechanic of the fights. If you recall back in the first few pages I even made a suggestion of making an easy mode similar to a CM, but in reverse (removing or tweaking one mechanic, at best two) but it was turned down by some of your "Easy mode" friends (others liked it though).

    Making an easy mode similar to a CM is something I've been posting about since the very first thread about easy modes appeared. Yet, it's mostly the "easy mode" crowd that doesn't like it. Which is why posting about wanting an Easy mode without discussing at least some specifics about it, is a bit pointless.

    I would be all up for reverse CM that removes 1 mech new players struggle the most in raids, e.g teleports on Carin and VG.
    And I still stand on that those mod don't give full reward and/or unlock achievements from legendary armor.
    Bit of shards weekly cap to 250 (?) those usual trash drops with a chance to get ascended trinket(?). Something like that

    Those teleports are marked with an orange border around your screen for some time now if you stand in them. Most mechanics are really well telegraphed.

    Yeah I know thank you. It was just an example my guildies complain when i ran training for them.
    Funny fact that yellow gets overwrites by green if reaper is in shroud.
    What I meant is, there is 1 mech that causes the most trouble in almost any boss. If it's not much trouble to make a CM for people run a SINGLE time for achievement. It shouldn't be a problem to make a reverse mote, or it would?

    Va'esse deireádh aep eigean, va'esse eigh faidh'ar

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Raids have problems, but we need a better solution

    @phs.6089 said:
    What I meant is, there is 1 mech that causes the most trouble in almost any boss. If it's not much trouble to make a CM for people run a SINGLE time for achievement. It shouldn't be a problem to make a reverse mote, or it would?

    Well that SINGLE time achievement is supposed to be changing sometime in the future... any time now

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭
    We need both easy and hard modes

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @phs.6089 said:
    What I meant is, there is 1 mech that causes the most trouble in almost any boss. If it's not much trouble to make a CM for people run a SINGLE time for achievement. It shouldn't be a problem to make a reverse mote, or it would?

    Well that SINGLE time achievement is supposed to be changing sometime in the future... any time now

    I wasn't asking of what would became with CMs in raids.

    Va'esse deireádh aep eigean, va'esse eigh faidh'ar

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    We need an easy mode, but not a hard mode

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @phs.6089 said:
    What I meant is, there is 1 mech that causes the most trouble in almost any boss. If it's not much trouble to make a CM for people run a SINGLE time for achievement. It shouldn't be a problem to make a reverse mote, or it would?

    Well that SINGLE time achievement is supposed to be changing sometime in the future... any time now

    They said they were thinking about if it could be changed. They never said they were actually working towards that goal though, so don't hold your hopes up. I mean, they are also thinking about build templates, and you know how well it went so far.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Sarrs.4831Sarrs.4831 Member ✭✭✭
    Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties

    CM mode seems like it'd take less time to develop than an easy mode.

    Easy mode actually has to hit a specific target; it needs to be able to be completed by ...% of people. I would figure this would add a fair amount of time that needs to be done in QA. Possibly they would even need to take on new QA members because the QA team plays at a certain skill level; I remember there being a mild kerfuffle over in WoW with Kil'jaeden being quite hard, caused by new members of their QA team being better at the game than who they were replacing.

    CM mode doesn't. It's basically "hey what would this fight be like if we changed this mechanic" and because it's a CM and considered an optional element of the raid, there really aren't any targets on it which QA needs to deal with beyond "does it work".

    It makes me think they would need to fundamentally rethink how difficulty works in raids to be able to actually deliver an effective easy mode. Maybe that's worth it. Honestly, I'd say its not, but I don't doubt that would be expected of me.

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭
    We need both easy and hard modes

    @Sarrs.4831 said:
    CM mode seems like it'd take less time to develop than an easy mode.

    Easy mode actually has to hit a specific target; it needs to be able to be completed by ...% of people. I would figure this would add a fair amount of time that needs to be done in QA. Possibly they would even need to take on new QA members because the QA team plays at a certain skill level; I remember there being a mild kerfuffle over in WoW with Kil'jaeden being quite hard, caused by new members of their QA team being better at the game than who they were replacing.

    CM mode doesn't. It's basically "hey what would this fight be like if we changed this mechanic" and because it's a CM and considered an optional element of the raid, there really aren't any targets on it which QA needs to deal with beyond "does it work".

    It makes me think they would need to fundamentally rethink how difficulty works in raids to be able to actually deliver an effective easy mode. Maybe that's worth it. Honestly, I'd say its not, but I don't doubt that would be expected of me.

    That is exactly what we saying. What if they thing ;' hey what would this fight be like if we remove one mechanic' and because it will make fight bit easier, maybe people can go and get familiar with most of the fight.

    Va'esse deireádh aep eigean, va'esse eigh faidh'ar

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 16, 2019
    We need both easy and hard modes

    Good video about the topic:

    Also, poll numbers for the record, for a total of 1022 votes:

    • We need both easy and hard modes - 51% - 531 votes
    • We need an easy mode, but not a hard mode - 7% - 78 votes
    • We need a hard mode, but not an easy mode - 7% - 81 votes
    • Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties - 25% - 260 votes
    • Raids have problems, but we need a better solution - 7% - 72 votes

    We have 65% of the voters wanting easy or hard mode, 58% wanting easy mode, and 58% wanting hard mode. Only 25% are fine with the current status of raids, against a 74% which isn't happy with the current situation.

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭
    We need both easy and hard modes

    Last episode had special food/portions from NPCs.
    I guess this is the direction Arena choose to go for easy raids.
    If you check there is even a special achievement to finish instance without using any of those(read: separate rewards).

    Va'esse deireádh aep eigean, va'esse eigh faidh'ar

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭

    ofc no split needed. That only can additionally separate players

  • FrizzFreston.5290FrizzFreston.5290 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Raids have problems, but we need a better solution

    @Lonami.2987 said:
    Good video about the topic:

    Also, poll numbers for the record, for a total of 1022 votes:

    • We need both easy and hard modes - 51% - 531 votes
    • We need an easy mode, but not a hard mode - 7% - 78 votes
    • We need a hard mode, but not an easy mode - 7% - 81 votes
    • Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties - 25% - 260 votes
    • Raids have problems, but we need a better solution - 7% - 72 votes

    We have 65% of the voters wanting easy or hard mode, 58% wanting easy mode, and 58% wanting hard mode. Only 25% are fine with the current status of raids, against a 74% which isn't happy with the current situation.

    Isnt happy with the current situation, is as vague as you can be though.

    I think that there's always something to improve, and something that is niche like raids, always has a large majority of people who think it needs improvement in one way or another. Where the double improvement is the more social option. Or perhaps the 'more fair' option. ("If you get easy mode then i want harder mode")

  • Blaeys.3102Blaeys.3102 Member ✭✭✭
    We need both easy and hard modes

    @Lonami.2987 said:
    Good video about the topic:

    Also, poll numbers for the record, for a total of 1022 votes:

    • We need both easy and hard modes - 51% - 531 votes
    • We need an easy mode, but not a hard mode - 7% - 78 votes
    • We need a hard mode, but not an easy mode - 7% - 81 votes
    • Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties - 25% - 260 votes
    • Raids have problems, but we need a better solution - 7% - 72 votes

    We have 65% of the voters wanting easy or hard mode, 58% wanting easy mode, and 58% wanting hard mode. Only 25% are fine with the current status of raids, against a 74% which isn't happy with the current situation.

    Great video and analysis.

    And the ideas Teapot raises in the video have potential in both directions - something some of us have been saying as far back as 3 years ago (in the dev thread asking what raids could be before they came out). Most of the current living story steps (like the recent fight against a certain giant dragon) could incorporate similar tools and be made into raid fights - without corrupting the easier mode experience. Using these simple tools, they could expand the game exponentially for all players - both hard core (by adding challenge to existing easy mode content) and casual (by adding easy modes to existing challenge/raid content).

    The numbers show this is something the community wants (in VERY clear terms). The video shows an easy way (presumably) of accomplishing it. Hopefully, the developers are listening.

  • yann.1946yann.1946 Member ✭✭✭
    Raids have problems, but we need a better solution

    @Blaeys.3102 said:

    @Lonami.2987 said:
    Good video about the topic:

    Also, poll numbers for the record, for a total of 1022 votes:

    • We need both easy and hard modes - 51% - 531 votes
    • We need an easy mode, but not a hard mode - 7% - 78 votes
    • We need a hard mode, but not an easy mode - 7% - 81 votes
    • Raids are fine the way they are, combining bosses of various difficulties - 25% - 260 votes
    • Raids have problems, but we need a better solution - 7% - 72 votes

    We have 65% of the voters wanting easy or hard mode, 58% wanting easy mode, and 58% wanting hard mode. Only 25% are fine with the current status of raids, against a 74% which isn't happy with the current situation.

    Great video and analysis.

    And the ideas Teapot raises in the video have potential in both directions - something some of us have been saying as far back as 3 years ago (in the dev thread asking what raids could be before they came out). Most of the current living story steps (like the recent fight against a certain giant dragon) could incorporate similar tools and be made into raid fights - without corrupting the easier mode experience. Using these simple tools, they could expand the game exponentially for all players - both hard core (by adding challenge to existing easy mode content) and casual (by adding easy modes to existing challenge/raid content).

    The numbers show this is something the community wants (in VERY clear terms). The video shows an easy way (presumably) of accomplishing it. Hopefully, the developers are listening.

    The numbers show this is something half of the people who come to an easy mode debate want. Which might be a big difference.

    I do believe most people in this debate already agreed they aren't against it if it doesn't take lots of development time.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 17, 2019
    We need an easy mode, but not a hard mode

    @yann.1946 said:
    I do believe most people in this debate already agreed they aren't against it if it doesn't take lots of development time.

    From the raiders side it's more like "if it doesn't take any developer time, and if it gives the easy mode players nothing, especially nothing that would able the mode to be sustainable". There is still a number of people that seem to agree on the surface, but hedge that with requirements that are sure to sink the mode (well knowing that those would sink the mode). And then they are saying that they've made the concessions already, so the opposite side should make concessions too.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • yann.1946yann.1946 Member ✭✭✭
    Raids have problems, but we need a better solution

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @yann.1946 said:
    I do believe most people in this debate already agreed they aren't against it if it doesn't take lots of development time.

    From the raiders side it's more like "if it doesn't take any developer time, and if it gives the easy mode players nothing, especially nothing that would able the mode to be sustainable". There is still a number of people that seem to agree on the surface, but hedge that with requirements that are sure to sink the mode (well knowing that those would sink the mode). And then they are saying that they've made the concessions already, so the opposite side should make concessions too.

    The problem has always been that everyone has different expectations.

    Should it serve as training yes or no,
    What should the rewards be because everyone has different ideas of what the difficulties should be.

    Let also not forget that their have been a substantial part of the pro story mode crowd also where/are for no loot.

    This debate never was two groups against eachother

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭
    edited January 21, 2019

    easiest way: and don't break balance:
    add 3-5 fractal instabilities in raid, if used by activation mote, and give additionally +2 gold from each boss
    no add any achiv, item's and etc

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.